Serious question is... Can slag Fox off all we like but all the while Wiggins is injured who else is there???
Tareiq Holmes-Dennis is only young and doesnt have experience above League Two (Whilst Fox had League One experience before his Charlton debut).
Or should we have loaned another Left-Back... that takes the wages away from being able to sign a better Striker in January.
People need bloody perspective and need to look at the wider picture
Ultimately I think it comes down to the fact that our academy has produced so much talent recently (Shelvey, Solly, Poyet, Cousins etc...) that expectation has risen fo4 these kids
how many good chances did we miss ? twice Igor miscontroled a ball when he could have been clean through---which might have WON us the game but slag off a kid for a f--k up which lost us 1 point---twats
Yup, Igor and Jo-Berg far more culpable today for wasted opportunities, but the knuckle draggers have already decided they like those two and don't like Fox, so regardless of what actually happened it's clear who they're going to blame.
Knuckle draggers for having a different opinion to you? what a muggy comment exiled Addick
Not got a problem with different opinions, got an issue with OTT, aggressive criticism of a young lad with limited experience who pretty much has to play right now, at the very least in midweek games when Solly is unavailable.
No ones pretending he's a superstar, but what I see is a young lad doing some decent stuff as well as making mistakes but he's putting in the effort and working within his current limitations, which I'm sure he and the club are trying to improve on. That may never happen but it certainly won't be overnight and don't see what comments like "Fuck him off" are going to do to help anyone. Your criticism of Fox is coming across as very one eyed.
Yet to see anthing as OTT as you labelling a load of people knuckle draggers. Fox wasn't terrible today, but he wasn't very good either. You'll have to accept that he will come under some criticism just like any other player in the squad.
I don't have to accept anything, but check my post match comments, I've criticised him myself but it's the tone of the criticism that counts for me. Knuckle draggers is an unnecessarily degroitory term on my part, but I get sick and tired of coming on here post match and finding the same predictable and largely unbalanced posts..
Didn't cost us though because we still got a point and didn't lose.
Tucudean cost us 2 points, as we drew rather than won.
Fox (if you blame him for the goal) cost us 1 point, as we lost rather than drew.
Fox is not the main problem in this side. He's not as good as Wiggins by any means, but whilst he's out he's our best option at LB.
Costing us the game is putting us in a we're position than we were before someone made the mistake. We were not in a worst position after tucudean messed up. We just wernt in a better one.
how many good chances did we miss ? twice Igor miscontroled a ball when he could have been clean through---which might have WON us the game but slag off a kid for a f--k up which lost us 1 point---twats
Yup, Igor and Jo-Berg far more culpable today for wasted opportunities, but the knuckle draggers have already decided they like those two and don't like Fox, so regardless of what actually happened it's clear who they're going to blame.
Knuckle draggers for having a different opinion to you? what a muggy comment exiled Addick
Not got a problem with different opinions, got an issue with OTT, aggressive criticism of a young lad with limited experience who pretty much has to play right now, at the very least in midweek games when Solly is unavailable.
No ones pretending he's a superstar, but what I see is a young lad doing some decent stuff as well as making mistakes but he's putting in the effort and working within his current limitations, which I'm sure he and the club are trying to improve on. That may never happen but it certainly won't be overnight and don't see what comments like "Fuck him off" are going to do to help anyone. Your criticism of Fox is coming across as very one eyed.
Comments like 'fuck him off' is just my opinion it's not 'meant to do' anything. It's not the first time he's been at fault for a goal this season. Let's go back to the Fulham game when he was at fault for one, maybe two of the goals? I personally think he is not good enough.
Why the need for such aggression though? Almost every goal we concede is the result of a mistake by somone. Bikey and Ben Haim both made, arguably, worse mistakes and got away with it. In his current form I don't think Fox is the long term solution, but i can see he does some good things. I don't rate Tucs much right now and thought he was a waste of space in his cameo today, but I was defending him last week. I'm not convinced on Jacko these days either but I thought he played well in the last couple of games.
Truth is ALL players do some good thing and some bad things, and it's the balance of the two that decides if they are good overall so I get frustrated reading posts like yours because they come across as blinkered. It's nothing personal against you, but too many of the posts after games like today and last week come from fans wanting to call out their least favourite players, but if that player plays well the next week, those same poster are conspicuous by their absence.
Human nature I guess, but it gets under my skin sometimes.
Players make errors, players also get injured. To focus all of our bad vibes on Morgan Fox is ridiculous, we lost 0-1 today for a number of reasons, not because Morgan Fox played for an injured Wiggins.
Lets do it again, they scored 1 more goal than us, the goal was conceded when Morgan Fox passed the ball to their player who scored, so its Fox'a fault they scored and then we lost,,,,,,,mmmmmm........
In my view you can always track a goal conceded back to something, but are you suggesting our defeat was down to Bob Peeters picking Morgan Fox at left back today rather than playing another player there? How do you think Prefers ought to have set up the team to ensure we didn't lose today's game?
If we'd been more effective up front we'd have had enough goals one error would not have cost us points. Yes he got it wrong on that occassion but Johann, Igor, Harriott and Cousins all made more errors further up the pitch and deserve just as much flack for the loss as Fox.
He's clearly not ever going to be a left footed Solly, or a Wiggins. But he's raw and under pressure and has done as well as I would expect any young player chucked in to do.
He wasn't awful today. But when its 0-0 in the 95th minute and you clear the ball like my Nan after 9 beers and a half a joint, you unsurprisingly deserve to be pasted for costing us the game.
Don't think he deserves a pasting. However, had Bulot not decided to kick the ball over the back line for a corner rather than to kick it over to the side for a throw in, the run of play would not have led to the situation where Fox fluffed it.
Players make errors, players also get injured. To focus all of our bad vibes on Morgan Fox is ridiculous, we lost 0-1 today for a number of reasons, not because Morgan Fox played for an injured Wiggins.
Lets do it again, they scored 1 more goal than us, the goal was conceded when Morgan Fox passed the ball to their player who scored, so its Fox'a fault they scored and then we lost,,,,,,,mmmmmm........
In my view you can always track a goal conceded back to something, but are you suggesting our defeat was down to Bob Peeters picking Morgan Fox at left back today rather than playing another player there? How do you think Prefers ought to have set up the team to ensure we didn't lose today's game?
Bizarre thread - seems like some of our 'fans' have nothing better to do than make a scapegoat. Fox isn't a bad player and Wiggins has been fairly poor defensively a number of times this season. Totally ludicrous calling him 'pony'.
Players make errors, players also get injured. To focus all of our bad vibes on Morgan Fox is ridiculous, we lost 0-1 today for a number of reasons, not because Morgan Fox played for an injured Wiggins.
Lets do it again, they scored 1 more goal than us, the goal was conceded when Morgan Fox passed the ball to their player who scored, so its Fox'a fault they scored and then we lost,,,,,,,mmmmmm........
In my view you can always track a goal conceded back to something, but are you suggesting our defeat was down to Bob Peeters picking Morgan Fox at left back today rather than playing another player there? How do you think Prefers ought to have set up the team to ensure we didn't lose today's game?
No I'm not suggesting any pf what you say at all. I am stating that Morgan Fox kicked the ball to their player who scored the winning goal because that is what happened. I hope you get it now.
Hey! I liked Kerkar, and Evina had a decent patch...
I agree completely though, Morgan Fox is not anywhere near as bad as some of the 'players' we've had; even recently. For a lad who's just stepping up to the senior team he's doing OK.
He has made a few boo-boos, and they have cost us though.
Fox's clearance wasn't great but it was a reflex action. More concerning was the fact Morgan won the ball from their corner near the right back slot and played it to Ben Haim who decided to go on a jaunt upfield and lost it. I see that as more damaging than Fox's clearance. That could have gone anywhere and it's unlucky it went straight to Hunt. Not great but not the worst thing. But when at 0-0 and inviting pressure you don't need your centre half bombing forward and losing it.
Can't not take into account the decision by Tbh to go wandering into an area he didn't need to resulting in fox being out of position and then the inexcusable clearance two bad pieces of defending one by a kid the other by the most experienced including champions league experience defenders in the league
Fox's clearance wasn't great but it was a reflex action. More concerning was the fact Morgan won the ball from their corner near the right back slot and played it to Ben Haim who decided to go on a jaunt upfield and lost it. I see that as more damaging than Fox's clearance. That could have gone anywhere and it's unlucky it went straight to Hunt. Not great but not the worst thing. But when at 0-0 and inviting pressure you don't need your centre half bombing forward and losing it.
Both Bikey and Ben Haim have a bit of a tendency to do that though, it's great when it works - but it worries the life out of me.
I'm willing to give younger players time but I just don't think he's good enough going forward where he will ever improve enough for us. He will learn to stop making mistakes like that but ultimately he just isn't good enough technically or physically to be a starting left back for us. Solly fits what we do perfectly as he's solid at the back but also has a good first touch and can get a cross in but Fox just can't. He might be ok if Harriot was on the left as a more traditional winger but with Cousins cutting in we need some sort of outlet there.
Call me old-fashioned, but how good he is going forward should be a bonus for a full back, and we should be judging him on his tackling, clearances and his defensive positional play more than anything else. Unfortunately on the few occasions I've seen him, he seems to get dragged out of position too easily and has trouble recovering from that. That partly comes with experience, and he's unfortunate that the main comparison we have is Solly, who's been much more solid from day one.
That said, even though it was Fox's error that lead to the goal, the defence in general was all over the shop in the last 10-15 minutes, so it could very easily have been one of the others we'd be berating now. And it wouldn't have mattered at all if we'd taken our chances better earlier on.
fact is, morgan fox wouldn't have been in that central position if ben haim hadn't gone walkies 50 seconds prior.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he had played most of his colts football as a centre back so he should have had no problem dealing with the ball in he set up their winner from, just put your boot through it and row Z East Stand block H. No excuses!
Players make errors, players also get injured. To focus all of our bad vibes on Morgan Fox is ridiculous, we lost 0-1 today for a number of reasons, not because Morgan Fox played for an injured Wiggins.
Lets do it again, they scored 1 more goal than us, the goal was conceded when Morgan Fox passed the ball to their player who scored, so its Fox'a fault they scored and then we lost,,,,,,,mmmmmm........
Not that simple though is it? If we were three nil up at the time it wouldn't have cost us the game.
Last season I saw Fox play a few games at left back and Lennon play a couple at left back .. Lennon looked the better of the two .. I'll now wait for the posts stating that Lennon could not get in the Cambridge/Gillingham starting elevens etc etc .. I think Lennon should be recalled and selected in place of Fox .. Fox's nerves look shot, his confidence gone, a shame, but there it is .. if not Lennon, then Gomez, Fox has caught Evinaitis
how many good chances did we miss ? twice Igor miscontroled a ball when he could have been clean through---which might have WON us the game but slag off a kid for a f--k up which lost us 1 point---twats
It's a bit easier to put your foot through a ball than it is to control a fast paced ball and THEN beat the keeper, pal. I don't agree with using Fox as a scapegoat, but I do agree that he's not good enough - some people don't view that as an option. Mistake or not I didn't like his performance, personally.
Agree. Whether we had scored early on or not. Fox shouldn't be making such basic mistakes like that. Winds me up that because he's an academy player it's as if any mistake he's made is instantly forgiven, yet people slag George off at will, yet he's never cost us a game, has he?
Think about it. It will nearly always look like defenders cost games because it's their mistakes that result in goals conceded. What George did last week was just as bad as what Fox did today, but because he's a striker it just means that we don't score.
Players make errors, players also get injured. To focus all of our bad vibes on Morgan Fox is ridiculous, we lost 0-1 today for a number of reasons, not because Morgan Fox played for an injured Wiggins.
Lets do it again, they scored 1 more goal than us, the goal was conceded when Morgan Fox passed the ball to their player who scored, so its Fox'a fault they scored and then we lost,,,,,,,mmmmmm........
In my view you can always track a goal conceded back to something, but are you suggesting our defeat was down to Bob Peeters picking Morgan Fox at left back today rather than playing another player there? How do you think Prefers ought to have set up the team to ensure we didn't lose today's game?
No I'm not suggesting any pf what you say at all. I am stating that Morgan Fox kicked the ball to their player who scored the winning goal because that is what happened. I hope you get it now.
I get it. The ball passed between those two big sticks with a net behind them across the painted white line. In my view it was that event that caused the winning goal to be awarded. Before that event all the players kicked the ball during the game.
Bigger picture: the whole club is moving forwards and we have a number of left backs on the books... With Wiggins out injured for ten games a season, having Fox learning his trade is not an issue while we are simply trying to stay in the top half of the table. Next season the cub might be more ambitious? Holmes-Dennis, Fox and Wiggins will have to fight it out for who's in the team and who's on the bench. Days like today it's painful thinking we lose, and fail to score again but this isn't 100% down to Fox is it. No, the squad is the youngest in the division and many of them are new to the Championship. This time next year we should be a lot further forward as players age and some come and go. I'm being very neutral here because our back five is fundamentally sound whether it's first choice or with Pope and Fox... Our problems are at the other end of the pitch and might take a few millions to fix!
Fox's clearance wasn't great but it was a reflex action. More concerning was the fact Morgan won the ball from their corner near the right back slot and played it to Ben Haim who decided to go on a jaunt upfield and lost it. I see that as more damaging than Fox's clearance. That could have gone anywhere and it's unlucky it went straight to Hunt. Not great but not the worst thing. But when at 0-0 and inviting pressure you don't need your centre half bombing forward and losing it.
Absolutely agree and Ben Haim and Bikey go walkabout too often for me. Fox is still learning and does not need slating. The game also changed, for me, when JJ was taken off. We lost the hold on the centre and came under pressure needlessly.
Last season I saw Fox play a few games at left back and Lennon play a couple at left back .. Lennon looked the better of the two .. I'll now wait for the posts stating that Lennon could not get in the Cambridge/Gillingham starting elevens etc etc .. I think Lennon should be recalled and selected in place of Fox .. Fox's nerves look shot, his confidence gone, a shame, but there it is .. if not Lennon, then Gomez, Fox has caught Evinaitis
Lennon's a centre back. Might have done well enough there a couple of times, but Fox did the same over a longer run of games himself. Holmes-Dennis and Edwards are Fox's competition in future rather than Lennon.
Last season I saw Fox play a few games at left back and Lennon play a couple at left back .. Lennon looked the better of the two .. I'll now wait for the posts stating that Lennon could not get in the Cambridge/Gillingham starting elevens etc etc .. I think Lennon should be recalled and selected in place of Fox .. Fox's nerves look shot, his confidence gone, a shame, but there it is .. if not Lennon, then Gomez, Fox has caught Evinaitis
Lennon's a centre back. Might have done well enough there a couple of times, but Fox did the same over a longer run of games himself. Holmes-Dennis and Edwards are Fox's competition in future rather than Lennon.
That is my point, centre back or not, Lennon did better that Fox in the games that I saw, you obviously disagree
Good players learn far more from their mistakes than anything else.
We have young players who are, by virtue of the lack of depth to our squad, having to learn in the first team when, ordinarily, they would make those mistakes either for the reserves or on loan.
It's also not the fault of the defence that we don't score more than we concede. After all, there are actually only two teams that have scored less goals than us in the division - and only four that have conceded less. And after 19 League games we have just one player who has scored more than two goals in open play.
Those are the reasons we aren't winning more matches. Not because of the odd mistake at the back.
Why do some CL members always go for the Negative( pelters for young fox) when i was at brighton and Rotherham i saw other defenders make bad mistakes at the back which cost us goals and yet they didn't get slagged off us much.
How about the positives of Harriott and Pope who both had good games today. Full back baiting in a sport in it's own at Charlton, just ask Simon Francis and lawrie wilson who both overcame the Negative comments even if Francis had to leave as his confidence had gone. (preston game)
The Reason we lost was our play was woeful in their box or good saves by their keeper.
Igor was poor today, we know he's not 100% fit but 3 pairs of boots did not help him.
The Irony of JBG miss was 4 of Wilson's goals have come from that position. Johann has so much flair but i wish he had a right foot.
Pretty average in defence, and looked like he had no idea what to do when going forward.
Not entirely true he played a good through ball on one occasion that just didn't quite come off.
It's interesting, isn't it, that Fox gets slagged off about having no idea what to do when going forward, but is there any slagging off of Solly? Who got to his sixth effort at a forward pass before he managed to find a player in a red shirt! Both full backs also had one half decent effort on goal too. Was there really that much between them today. I think not.
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Why the need for such aggression though? Almost every goal we concede is the result of a mistake by somone. Bikey and Ben Haim both made, arguably, worse mistakes and got away with it. In his current form I don't think Fox is the long term solution, but i can see he does some good things. I don't rate Tucs much right now and thought he was a waste of space in his cameo today, but I was defending him last week. I'm not convinced on Jacko these days either but I thought he played well in the last couple of games.
Truth is ALL players do some good thing and some bad things, and it's the balance of the two that decides if they are good overall so I get frustrated reading posts like yours because they come across as blinkered. It's nothing personal against you, but too many of the posts after games like today and last week come from fans wanting to call out their least favourite players, but if that player plays well the next week, those same poster are conspicuous by their absence.
Human nature I guess, but it gets under my skin sometimes.
How do you think Prefers ought to have set up the team to ensure we didn't lose today's game?
He's clearly not ever going to be a left footed Solly, or a Wiggins. But he's raw and under pressure and has done as well as I would expect any young player chucked in to do.
Totally ludicrous calling him 'pony'.
I agree completely though, Morgan Fox is not anywhere near as bad as some of the 'players' we've had; even recently. For a lad who's just stepping up to the senior team he's doing OK.
He has made a few boo-boos, and they have cost us though.
Shit happens
That said, even though it was Fox's error that lead to the goal, the defence in general was all over the shop in the last 10-15 minutes, so it could very easily have been one of the others we'd be berating now. And it wouldn't have mattered at all if we'd taken our chances better earlier on.
Before that event all the players kicked the ball during the game.
Next season the cub might be more ambitious? Holmes-Dennis, Fox and Wiggins will have to fight it out for who's in the team and who's on the bench.
Days like today it's painful thinking we lose, and fail to score again but this isn't 100% down to Fox is it.
No, the squad is the youngest in the division and many of them are new to the Championship. This time next year we should be a lot further forward as players age and some come and go.
I'm being very neutral here because our back five is fundamentally sound whether it's first choice or with Pope and Fox... Our problems are at the other end of the pitch and might take a few millions to fix!
The game also changed, for me, when JJ was taken off. We lost the hold on the centre and came under pressure needlessly.
We have young players who are, by virtue of the lack of depth to our squad, having to learn in the first team when, ordinarily, they would make those mistakes either for the reserves or on loan.
It's also not the fault of the defence that we don't score more than we concede. After all, there are actually only two teams that have scored less goals than us in the division - and only four that have conceded less. And after 19 League games we have just one player who has scored more than two goals in open play.
Those are the reasons we aren't winning more matches. Not because of the odd mistake at the back.
when i was at brighton and Rotherham i saw other defenders make bad mistakes at the back which cost us goals and yet they didn't get slagged off us much.
How about the positives of Harriott and Pope who both had good games today. Full back baiting in a sport in it's own at Charlton, just ask Simon Francis and lawrie wilson who both overcame the Negative comments even if Francis had to leave as his confidence had gone. (preston game)
The Reason we lost was our play was woeful in their box or good saves by their keeper.
Igor was poor today, we know he's not 100% fit but 3 pairs of boots did not help him.
The Irony of JBG miss was 4 of Wilson's goals have come from that position.
Johann has so much flair but i wish he had a right foot.
It's interesting, isn't it, that Fox gets slagged off about having no idea what to do when going forward, but is there any slagging off of Solly? Who got to his sixth effort at a forward pass before he managed to find a player in a red shirt! Both full backs also had one half decent effort on goal too. Was there really that much between them today. I think not.