Political correctness has gone mad and Wigan's mananger is being investigated, meaning he is not guilty yet! Besides, even if he is guilty what is the difference between Suarez being racist towards Evra and this?
The decision to hire Mackay has caused controversy because the manager is being investigated by the FA for sending offensive text messages during his time as manager of Cardiff City.
One of the messages referred to Jewish football agent Phil Smith and appeared to imply that a Jew would be more perturbed at losing money than non-Jews.
But, in an interview with The Guardian, Whelan played down the significance of the text.
He said: “The Jews don't like losing money. Nobody likes losing money. Do you think Jewish people chase money a little bit more than we do? I think they are very shrewd people.
“I think Jewish people do chase money more than everybody else. I don't think that's offensive at all.”
The Jewish Leadership Council has condemned Whelan's views and called on him to withdraw his comments.
So for those who are saying he has "no defense" and that "saying sorry doesn't make it OK", what would you suggest? That nobody should offer him a job?
I don't think anyone has said that, only that people wouldn't want him at Charlton which is a different thing.
I read the posts as saying "because a made up percentage of people may do similar" or "it was between mates" are no defences and doesn't make it OK or acceptable.
And from what Mackay has come out and said, he agrees that there is little defence that it is unacceptable. He has wholly admitted his mistakes, so I don't really understand what points some are trying to make by repeating what he himself has come out and said. He knows he has done wrong.
I agree but yet some here and elsewhere are still trying to defend and even excuse what he said.
I was at the game in which Cardiff got promoted, and looking at that team, it looks like its full of decent players, mainly British. There's one South Korean in that team, so it doesn't look to me that he had loads of far eastern players forced on him. When Solskjær took over, he then signed several rubbish Norwegians, so again so Far Eastern influx
The decision to hire Mackay has caused controversy because the manager is being investigated by the FA for sending offensive text messages during his time as manager of Cardiff City.
One of the messages referred to Jewish football agent Phil Smith and appeared to imply that a Jew would be more perturbed at losing money than non-Jews.
But, in an interview with The Guardian, Whelan played down the significance of the text.
He said: “The Jews don't like losing money. Nobody likes losing money. Do you think Jewish people chase money a little bit more than we do? I think they are very shrewd people.
“I think Jewish people do chase money more than everybody else. I don't think that's offensive at all.”
The Jewish Leadership Council has condemned Whelan's views and called on him to withdraw his comments.
Mackay and Whelan, made to work together. On the other hand I do wonder if any players from the groups he/they referred to will say anything or do anything or maybe they will let it be (on principle or for cash.)
Whelan shouldn't have been lured in to making a comment about a specific race/religion as it inevitably leads to offence. Funny how the media and those calling him anti-semitic completely glaze over the fact that he is making a compliment.
You can't say "the jews" or the "insert race/religion" though in this day and age, because no matter the content - the race card always gets drawn instantly.
So for those who are saying he has "no defense" and that "saying sorry doesn't make it OK", what would you suggest? That nobody should offer him a job?
I don't think anyone has said that, only that people wouldn't want him at Charlton which is a different thing.
I read the posts as saying "because a made up percentage of people may do similar" or "it was between mates" are no defences and doesn't make it OK or acceptable.
And from what Mackay has come out and said, he agrees that there is little defence that it is unacceptable. He has wholly admitted his mistakes, so I don't really understand what points some are trying to make by repeating what he himself has come out and said. He knows he has done wrong.
I agree but yet some here and elsewhere are still trying to defend and even excuse what he said.
Completely agree. For those saying we have all sent something along those lines, say for example you were a manager at a company and you sent similar things to what he did about your boss and those you manage, do you think it would be unreasonable that you would lose your job? I don't see how anyone can defend it.
So for those who are saying he has "no defense" and that "saying sorry doesn't make it OK", what would you suggest? That nobody should offer him a job?
I don't think anyone has said that, only that people wouldn't want him at Charlton which is a different thing.
I read the posts as saying "because a made up percentage of people may do similar" or "it was between mates" are no defences and doesn't make it OK or acceptable.
And from what Mackay has come out and said, he agrees that there is little defence that it is unacceptable. He has wholly admitted his mistakes, so I don't really understand what points some are trying to make by repeating what he himself has come out and said. He knows he has done wrong.
I agree but yet some here and elsewhere are still trying to defend and even excuse what he said.
Completely agree. For those saying we have all sent something along those lines, say for example you were a manager at a company and you sent similar things to what he did about your boss and those you manage, do you think it would be unreasonable that you would lose your job? I don't see how anyone can defend it.
On the whole I don't sense that people are saying he shouldn't have lost his job. Many are backing him as someone who has made bad mistakes and has owned up to it and is asking for a second chance, thats all.
So for those who are saying he has "no defense" and that "saying sorry doesn't make it OK", what would you suggest? That nobody should offer him a job?
I don't think anyone has said that, only that people wouldn't want him at Charlton which is a different thing.
I read the posts as saying "because a made up percentage of people may do similar" or "it was between mates" are no defences and doesn't make it OK or acceptable.
And from what Mackay has come out and said, he agrees that there is little defence that it is unacceptable. He has wholly admitted his mistakes, so I don't really understand what points some are trying to make by repeating what he himself has come out and said. He knows he has done wrong.
I agree but yet some here and elsewhere are still trying to defend and even excuse what he said.
Completely agree. For those saying we have all sent something along those lines, say for example you were a manager at a company and you sent similar things to what he did about your boss and those you manage, do you think it would be unreasonable that you would lose your job? I don't see how anyone can defend it.
On the whole I don't sense that people are saying he shouldn't have lost his job. Many are backing him as someone who has made bad mistakes and has owned up to it and is asking for a second chance, thats all.
Yeah I'm not suggesting that the majority are saying that but there are a number of people who are. The cynic in me would say that he has apologised as he had no other option to, the same cynic would also say that Tan has "played" this extremely well. Seems Mackay massively underestimated him and it has cost him.
I think the real question is, let's wait and see what happens with the investigation, if there is evidence he has a history of this and has not treated all his players and staff equally then he shouldn't be allowed to manage again. I'd also question whether Wigan should be allowed to hire him until it is all sorted.
The investigation should be completed before any appointment made,
Makay should be allowed to apologise for his mistake and be allowed to learn from them and continue his career
His words were wrong they were racist and it was ridiculous to even think that by saying diversity training has helped him realise this
It's 2014 we know what's right and wrong, just man up admit you fucked up say sorry keep your head down and get on with life
It's only words at the end of the day, the pain and anguish caused by them are not physically harming
Dave whelan sometimes just keeping your mouth shut is helpful, but his idiotic way to put his doddery old man views across are just insane ramblings of an out of touch old man Apparently he has hundreds of Jewish and Chinese friends so would never insult them
Yes it's commonly suggested Jews are tight with cash, it's a stereotype that is probably the one thing if you asked 99 out of a hundred people to describe a Jewish person that would arise Where it come from it couldn't tell you, how I heard it or who from I don't know but I have always associated Jews and being tight same as Scottish people Would I know not to say it to a newspaper and have it misinterpreted yes
To call chinese people chinks is as wrong as calling Pakistani people Pakis surely dave whelan knows that
It's an age thing and it's such a predictable outcome to this situation
Is feel sorry for him for being so niave so out of touch with modern thinking, is he a racist no idea dont think so has he used racist language and comments yes 100 per cent should he be charged for it yes he should
Funny how the media and those calling him anti-semitic completely glaze over the fact that he is making a compliment.
This is incredibly naïve. You are suggesting "Jews are good with money" is a compliment, so it shouldn't be considered to be quite so offensive? See what happens if you make a public statement that "black men have large penises." After all, it's a compliment, right?
No, I stated that was exactly what I'm not doing. Now you're taking me out of context and making your own point based on that - thanks for illustrating my point so neatly.
The exact text, in isolation of any kind of context other than assumed or reported, is this: "Fkn chinkys. Fk it. There's enough dogs in Cardiff for us all to go around." Not very pleasant, I agree. However, this was his response to Tan signing a South Korean player Mackay clearly didn't want. It's objectionable as it is, unjustifiable frankly, but equally it's very different from saying it without the irritation at Tan's interference.
For what it's worth, I think Mackay was/is ignorant. He clearly needs the education he's now getting, so I think that was the right response and hopefully he'll value the mistake as an opportunity for lasting change. We get so swept away by political agenda and militancy we forget that the end is surely to take people out of their ignorance. Rather than begrudge it and stand in judgement in perpetuity, perhaps we should applaud it and encourage the change?
A note of caution for you: be careful not to judge me or anyone else without knowing our own contexts. You know nothing about me or my family background, and that context may well make you think twice about jumping to conclusions about what I say.
'...his use of the word 'chinkys' sounds like it's borne of frustration with Chan forcing Eastern players on him rather than one too many.' If that's not justifying his overt bigotry, I don't know what is.
As for your 'word of caution' for me:get over yourself man,and you can take that in whatever context you like.
No point trying to debate someone of a closed mind. You keep taking my quotes out of their context, just as the texts were taken, and applying a different meaning to that intended. You're just illustrating my point. Again.
How do you interpret "it's unjustifiable" to mean "let me justify that for you"?? - when did the level of debate on here become that of ITTV?
Feel free to keep caricaturing me as someone who justifies racists - says more about you than it does me though.
I really don't like Whelan. He came out strongly against giving black coaches the right to interview for related jobs. I'm hardly a bleeding heart liberal but I find the lack of black coaches embarrassing. If you listen to his interviews he's absolutely cringeworthy.
The investigation should be completed before any appointment made,
Makay should be allowed to apologise for his mistake and be allowed to learn from them and continue his career
His words were wrong they were racist and it was ridiculous to even think that by saying diversity training has helped him realise this
It's 2014 we know what's right and wrong, just man up admit you fucked up say sorry keep your head down and get on with life
It's only words at the end of the day, the pain and anguish caused by them are not physically harming
Dave whelan sometimes just keeping your mouth shut is helpful, but his idiotic way to put his doddery old man views across are just insane ramblings of an out of touch old man Apparently he has hundreds of Jewish and Chinese friends so would never insult them
Yes it's commonly suggested Jews are tight with cash, it's a stereotype that is probably the one thing if you asked 99 out of a hundred people to describe a Jewish person that would arise Where it come from it couldn't tell you, how I heard it or who from I don't know but I have always associated Jews and being tight same as Scottish people Would I know not to say it to a newspaper and have it misinterpreted yes
To call chinese people chinks is as wrong as calling Pakistani people Pakis surely dave whelan knows that
It's an age thing and it's such a predictable outcome to this situation
Is feel sorry for him for being so niave so out of touch with modern thinking, is he a racist no idea dont think so has he used racist language and comments yes 100 per cent should he be charged for it yes he should
by far THE most sensible and relevant post that I have read on this subject
Comments
The decision to hire Mackay has caused controversy because the manager is being investigated by the FA for sending offensive text messages during his time as manager of Cardiff City.
One of the messages referred to Jewish football agent Phil Smith and appeared to imply that a Jew would be more perturbed at losing money than non-Jews.
But, in an interview with The Guardian, Whelan played down the significance of the text.
He said: “The Jews don't like losing money. Nobody likes losing money. Do you think Jewish people chase money a little bit more than we do? I think they are very shrewd people.
“I think Jewish people do chase money more than everybody else. I don't think that's offensive at all.”
The Jewish Leadership Council has condemned Whelan's views and called on him to withdraw his comments.
Still living in the same year as when he broke his leg in the cup final.
Who does his PR, Nick Griffin?
You can't say "the jews" or the "insert race/religion" though in this day and age, because no matter the content - the race card always gets drawn instantly.
I think the real question is, let's wait and see what happens with the investigation, if there is evidence he has a history of this and has not treated all his players and staff equally then he shouldn't be allowed to manage again. I'd also question whether Wigan should be allowed to hire him until it is all sorted.
Makay should be allowed to apologise for his mistake and be allowed to learn from them and continue his career
His words were wrong they were racist and it was ridiculous to even think that by saying diversity training has helped him realise this
It's 2014 we know what's right and wrong, just man up admit you fucked up say sorry keep your head down and get on with life
It's only words at the end of the day, the pain and anguish caused by them are not physically harming
Dave whelan sometimes just keeping your mouth shut is helpful, but his idiotic way to put his doddery old man views across are just insane ramblings of an out of touch old man
Apparently he has hundreds of Jewish and Chinese friends so would never insult them
Yes it's commonly suggested Jews are tight with cash, it's a stereotype that is probably the one thing if you asked 99 out of a hundred people to describe a Jewish person that would arise
Where it come from it couldn't tell you, how I heard it or who from I don't know but I have always associated Jews and being tight same as Scottish people
Would I know not to say it to a newspaper and have it misinterpreted yes
To call chinese people chinks is as wrong as calling Pakistani people Pakis surely dave whelan knows that
It's an age thing and it's such a predictable outcome to this situation
Is feel sorry for him for being so niave so out of touch with modern thinking, is he a racist no idea dont think so has he used racist language and comments yes 100 per cent should he be charged for it yes he should
You are suggesting "Jews are good with money" is a compliment, so it shouldn't be considered to be quite so offensive?
See what happens if you make a public statement that "black men have large penises." After all, it's a compliment, right?
How do you interpret "it's unjustifiable" to mean "let me justify that for you"?? - when did the level of debate on here become that of ITTV?
Feel free to keep caricaturing me as someone who justifies racists - says more about you than it does me though.
Did he really break his leg in an FA Cup final?
?!?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30139723
Vincent Tan calls Wigan/Whelan racist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30147475