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RD's vision not quite working.

I know........another thread on RD & his vision on how to run a football club, but just wanted to add my observations having just read that Georgie boy is the latest player to leave our club after a short stay.

Currently we have Reza, Pete the pole and now Georgie boy all "loaned out" to other clubs having spent less than a season with us. I know its not unusual for players to go out on loan, but these are generally either youngsters trying to gain some experience, players coming back from long term injuries & trying to get some game time, or players that have been around a while & have fallen down the pecking order. Never before have I seen so many players join us, play 15-20 games & then get shipped out (not sold, mind you) - and on a long loan rather than a month or two as is the norm.

So, can we now say that RD's vision can be shown to be "flawed" or have we just been unlucky with the players "foisted " upon us ??
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Comments

  • We are unlucky and have been for sometime.
  • Everybody craves instant success but the current model is work in progress and needs more time to develop.
  • golfie, I agree with you. (Hallelujah).

    Either the "recruiters" are crap or they are doing it deliberately, because getting players to play in England, inflates their value.

    However, if they then go out on loan, as opposed to being sold, I don't see any benefit to RD or CAFC.

    We're just part of a swap shop.

    Simon Church does look a bit like a young Keith Chegwin I suppose......
  • Thing is before the network we have had strikers come without actually doing too much and usually costing a lot more, it has happened for years..

    Andy Gray, Luke Varney, Izale Mcleod, Leon McKenzie, Pawel Abbott etc etc
  • You know when things are bad at Charlton when you get more enjoyment from playing football manager than actually going to games and enduring matches.
  • Thing is before the network we have had strikers come without actually doing too much and usually costing a lot more, it has happened for years..

    Andy Gray, Luke Varney, Izale Mcleod, Leon McKenzie, Pawel Abbott etc etc

    You're right.

    I don't think it is so much the model.

    It's the recruiters.

    Who ever is picking the players for RD is doing it badly.

    The network mean that flops are given two or three chances but there are still flops in the terms of the model ie buy young and cheap and then sell at a profit,
  • It's hard to disagree with you Golfie, the players you mention plus Adjerivic ? have failed to hit the sweet spot. He seems to want to make every decision himself, which when you are operating in different Countries, often with big differences, is in my view going to threaten your chance of success. As I've mentioned before, my friend, another Addick built an excellent business by recognising talented people, employing and supporting plus rewarding them, delegating them to follow his plan. In terms of football RD has a lot to learn, but I am sure that he doesn't think so and he owns everything. Some times in business, the greatest skill is to be able to listen.
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  • edited January 2015
    Should have gone to Specsavers.

    Or bought it.
  • edited January 2015
    Just a thought - is there any indication as to how much of a contribution the loaning clubs are making towards players wages?

    Is there anything to stop, for example, a player being loaned out for 120% or 150% of their wage bill, for example? Could this in fact all be part of RD's grand plan?
  • I would guess RD does not like to crystallise a loss so he buys them for SL, they fail. He loans them to CAFC for chance 2. They fail. He sends them to another network club or loans them outside the network for chance 3. They still fail.

    RD has written down the original investment over their contract rather than taking an early hit and maybe recouped a loan fee along the way.

    Can't help thinking however that if he just bought in the right player day one it would be easier. They would probably still only last 6 months however before he cashed in for a profit.
  • Except the "recruiters" identified Vetokele and Gudmundsson as well as Bikey and Ben Haim.
    I think it was someone in the past who sent Nego and Koc in our direction. Whoever paid €1.5m each for Tucudean and Thuram may well be gone? These players were signed some time ago and I recall whoever it was that set up the loans in January 2014 is now gone.

    What is missing is the name of whoever is doing the deals and what is the strategy. We can all observe the pattern of signings balancing the good with the not so good...and by next August we will know for sure the ambition or vision.

    For that is when Church and Wilson are out of contract. And others return after loans. That is when M.Duchatelet, Meire, Chapple, Luzon (?) and whoever works behind the scenes can either step up the recruitment based on a solid championship squad which will need perhaps six additions. Or they might deliver more of the same - France league 2 signings for c.£1m. and free transfers from Coventry.

    M.Duchatelet and Meire did a lot in the first nine months but that was the easy bit! Everything that was done like the pitch and the signings was obvious. But improving the brand, ticket sales and squad over the next 6-12 months is going to be harder. Unless M.Duchatelet repeats the kind of fee paid for Vetokele, and not just once.
    In addition they need to build on FAPL relationships. Every top club in the championship has top strikers on loan - Bangor, Vydra, and now Bent at Derby.

    So I'm glad we can "flip" players quickly who don't work but hard cash and FAPL loans is the only way to raise the quality of the attacking options. It's no coincidence we are one of the lowest scorers with the fewest chances in the league...and it can be fixed but probably not on the cheap!
  • Vetokele had played for Peeters so came because of him.

    Bikey and TBH had both previously played in the Championship and we don't know if they were down to Chapple or not.

    So that leaves the Icelandic international on a free transfer for but against Polish Pete, Reza, Koc, George, Lioc, Fred and it has to said Tony. Tony might to a hit for us but he was a flop for Standard. Otherwise we wouldn't have him.

    It still aint working as Watt was bought for Standard in the summer and it didn't work.

    Said it before. You can have any model you like but if you can't find value for money with you money it won't work.

    Bumpy ride continues.

  • Igor and JBG to me look like the sort of players Standard Liege would look at. We got them after whoever realised they underestimated the Championship.

    The club always said Koc was here to play for the u21s. Strange one but not a mistake, probably an idea someone thought would be good for his development.

    Bikey and TBH were well known over here, plenty of experience in this country, we didn't need to be linked to a European scouting network to identify them.
  • Scoham said:



    Bikey and TBH were well known over here, plenty of experience in this country, we didn't need to be linked to a European scouting network to identify them.

    Exactly
  • edited January 2015
    We had Martin Samuels in The Mail last Season,
    Now Chris Dunlavy in last sunday's football league paper, saying we're just a second rate Watford.

    If anyone outside of Cafc has praised the model that Roland is using, i must of missed it.

    It's feels we are still in phase 1 as like the last two season the team after a fair start are struggling. so the doubts increase about the Duchatelet way.

    If Roland or his family had four teams in the top division of say
    Belgium, Holland, Portugal and France this could be a network which
    could dovetail so well. but that's not the case.

    Phase 2 would be that it start to work we finish 7th and at the end of the season he dosn't sell our best players for any reasonable bid.
    so that it's one foot forward and two steps back.

    We as CAFC fans really need to trust.

    But How can we so far ?
  • We had Martin Samuels in The Mail last Season,
    Now Chris Dunlavy in last sunday's football league paper, saying we're just a second rate Watford.

    If anyone outside of Cafc has praised the model that Roland is using, i must of missed it.

    It's feels we are still in phase 1 as like the last two season the team after a fair start are struggling. so the doubts increase about the Duchatelet way.

    If Roland or his family had four teams in the top division of say
    Belgium, Holland, Portugal and France this could be a network which
    could dovetail so well. but that's not the case.

    Phase 2 would be that it start to work we finish 7th and at the end of the season he dosn't sell our best players for any reasonable bid.
    so that it's one foot forward and two steps back.

    We as CAFC fans really need to trust.

    But How can we so far ?

    Good post. As stated previously, I backed/back RD. The reasons I backed/back it are the reasons I have listed previously

    - club bought and running at a loss
    - showed/shows that an initial plan is in place to progress
    - wanted to run the club within FFP
    - has "invested" in players
    - we are only over a year into his regime, we all keep saying managers should be given time, should extend to owners as well.
    - achieved the goal last season of staying up

    HOWEVER, before I get shot down, this last month and the points listed by soapbox, suggest we have reached the critical point along the 'Bumpy Ride' trademarked HI.

    With the influx of all these players, very few have been a success. Certainly last season only AA and Reza can only just be considered as successes, but for the purpose of the argument let's say they are.

    Now we have had a lot of players come through our doors in the last 12 or so months, a lot who haven't made an impact. Now whether that's the model or the scouting I don't know, but the scouting is under the direction of the model so either way it is under serious examination.

    GL and the next batch of players have to work. Unfortunately the way RD has gone through managers and in turn players, means you only have that luxury of putting it on them for so long. I remember last season Tim Sherwood after every Spurs game saying I gave them a bollocking at HT or when they lost criticising them after the game and saying 'not good enough etc'

    You only get that as an excuse/reason for so long. RD's rather trigger happy approach has left even fans like me who have backed it up until now, very weary of every move from this point on.

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  • Tuc was always a gamble player/2nd chance, not sure he was ever meant to be even a number 2 striker. Or Perhaps there is a fixed budget, so you buy a veto which means u can only afford a Tuc
  • Home Rule For Charlton!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • edited January 2015
    razil said:

    Tuc was always a gamble player/2nd chance, not sure he was ever meant to be even a number 2 striker. Or Perhaps there is a fixed budget, so you buy a veto which means u can only afford a Tuc

    That implies having someone else as no 2 striker, which we obviously didn't. And even if the plan was to get one, the problem was left to fester with predictable consequences. More likely RD insisted that Tucudean was that man and told Peeters to get on with it.
  • razil said:

    Tuc was always a gamble player/2nd chance, not sure he was ever meant to be even a number 2 striker. Or Perhaps there is a fixed budget, so you buy a veto which means u can only afford a Tuc

    That implies having someone else as no 2 striker, which we obviously didn't. And even if the plan was to get one, the problem was left to fester with predictable consequences. More likely RD insisted that Tucudean was that man and told Peeters to get on with it.
    Moussa was, I suspect, going to be the 2nd deep lying striker.

    Then again Dion Dublin was going to be Fergie's main striker until he got injured so they bought some french guy from Leeds called Eric.
  • Christ, I forgot Franck Moussa existed.
  • Henry, are you suggesting that this will be our next striker?

    http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eric-mouloungui/profil/spieler/12551
  • How do we know it's not working when we don't know what it is?
  • If only we weren't the only team that ever speculatively buys a striker who subsequently doesn't perform as well as we had hoped, leaving the team with a shortfall - anyone would think we didn't have unlimited funds to replace players. I blame RD.
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Roland Out Forever!