Dan, I can understand the odd one or two not enjoying the football and calling it a day, fair enough! But what I dont get is the amount of people, who call themselves supporters, that have jumped on this bandwagon and are refusing to go. I'm sure a lot of this stems from the way SL fans have behaved in protesting against RD.
Bandwagon? You really are patronising. There's only one reason that we're considering action like Liege fans - their club is going through the exact same thing. They recently made 25m euros profit on player sales. Where did that go? Roland's pocket, or alternatively to purchase us and Alcocorn. Liege certainly didn't see any of it.
And say, somehow, we make a profit. Where will it go? It won't stay in SE7. Throw in the many things we've been debating for a year, plus new revelations such as winning not being the most important thing, and can you really blame people for worrying about the club that their dads and grandads and great-grandads went to see?
Everyone is entitled to their views. Don't quite understand how those in the 'everything is rosy' camp are just accusing people of bandwagon jumping though. Long standing fans aren't just getting worried for the sake of it. There is clearly something making us worried.
Well, its all about opinions and unfortunately, I dont agree with yours.
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.
I would like to know where you get the idea that RD wants us in the premiership? He has given the club a paper thin squad with obvious gaps in the midfield and up front which have led us to be 6 points away from relegation and on a losing streak.
He has also never indicated in public that he sees the premiership as a goal or that he is prepared to invest the money or time to make that happen.
However, what he has said is that he wants to develop a new financial business model for football which involves semi-merging clubs across different leagues. If you are happy with that fine, but it does not equate with wanting football success for Charlton.
Well, its all about opinions and unfortunately, I dont agree with yours.
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.
No evidence that he sees premiership as his pot of gold. Why buy the other clubs if that is aim and if it was aim he would have bought players for cafc not the network and got in a proper manager.
Well, its all about opinions and unfortunately, I dont agree with yours.
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.
However, what he has said is that he wants to develop a new financial business model for football which involves semi-merging clubs across different leagues.
Not sure he has actually said that either. He has said very little about his plans and model which is one of the problems
How do you know where that 25m euros went? Have you studied the accounts of SL?
Even if he did use it to purchase us or Alcoron, whats that got to do with you or I? Does anyone tell you how to spend your wages?
And as for us making a profit, my friend, we are losing £5 million per year and whose bankrolling that?
So that money is just sat in Liege's petty cash for a rainy day?
Club profits in no way equates to wages. If we got £5m for Gomez and £5m for Cousins, would you be happy if he went and bought a club in Italy with the £10m?
If RD truly sees us as a business only, then he will never make money in the Championship, no matter how many players he sells. Remember, he would need to find £5 million worth of player sales per year just to break even.
The premiership is his only outlet if he wants to sell us at a profit!
Well, its all about opinions and unfortunately, I dont agree with yours.
How can you say Roland does not have football success as an aim?
Yes, he sees us as a business, and I'm sure he would like to sell us at a profit, but to do that he needs us in the premiership, so he needs us to succeed on the football front in order to achieve this!
I'm still going to go, but as I have already said, I am a member of the trust and I am happy that they will ask the right questions, if and when they can get RD to the table.
However, what he has said is that he wants to develop a new financial business model for football which involves semi-merging clubs across different leagues.
Not sure he has actually said that either. He has said very little about his plans and model which is one of the problems
In fact the main problem. We are all tearing our hair out trying to fit the (known) facts to his (unknown) plan
(Mind you, when was the last time you heard a Championship owner say 'my plan is to take this once great club back to where it belongs in the Premier League, then immediately sell it and run off with the money')
I think it's fair to say, that the majority of fair minded people are not against a network per se.
It's how that it's operated, that is the main problem.
Things I feel are wrong, that could be rectified :-
The owner needs to communicate more with the fans.
The owner needs to change his policy and stop treating his clubs like car show rooms, to display his assets. We are a team and need to play like a team. You can't just throw in any player from around the network, because he wants them "in the window" and this includes academy players that are not ready for the 1st team.
The owner must stop telling/trying to persuade the coach who should play. Evidence from Powell, Dyer and Peeters.
The owner must change his scouting network, so that it is fit for purpose. Evidence, paying £750K for Polish Pete, not deemed good enough for The Championship & may even struggle at League 2 level.
The owner must ensure that Charlton are given the required players for the correct positions. I accept that we might not get the player we would like. However, we've desperately needed a centre forward for 12 months, but get players, in many positions, except centre forward. The owner is more than aware of this.
The owner needs to change his attitude towards the fans. The "you have no say in the matter, like it or lump it", is not and will not work.
If the above were rectified, the majority of the problems would be dealt with.
The owner must start to respect fans & players. We are people with feelings and emotions. Just because he is lacking in that department, he needs to try harder.
My examples are just a flavour for anyone who will claim, that's not a lot of problems.
The premiership is his only outlet if he wants to sell us at a profit!
No evidence of that either
Indeed. If we take the published figures for 2012/13 only 8 clubs in the Premier League made a profit. Of those clubs, not a single one of them was a club that had just been promoted. They were all clubs that had either consolidated in the the Prem or were already well established clubs. A promotion push costs money. Surviving in the Premier League costs money. If you can get the promotion then survive, it's possible to make a decent profit (Swansea are a great example of this ), but you have to put the money in first (or get very lucky and sneak up via the play-offs).
Just for context, even Southampton, have failed to make a profit in the Premier League despite their youth system doing rather well. When the 2013/14 figures are released we might see that has changed, but they made losses of around £7m during the 12/13 season and £12m losses the season before.
In fact the main problem. We are all tearing our hair out trying to fit the (known) facts to his (unknown) plan
(Mind you, when was the last time you heard a Championship owner say 'my plan is to take this once great club back to where it belongs in the Premier League, then immediately sell it and run off with the money')
That is absolutey spot on!
This is the thing none of us know what his plans are, its all been just a guessing game. Hopefully the trust will tease the future plans out of RD, we shall see.
Personally I think people are making too much of this 'RD doesn't care about like winning' stuff. It's a comment we've been fed with absolutely no context behind it so we have no idea what it really means. Clearly unless we win some games, his investment will fall down the toilet as quickly as we fall down the divisions so I would say that he must care. Probably best forget about it unless Jimmy decides to elaborate further. In my view it's a red herring.
if roland doesnt care about winning as he says why sack peeters. that bit dont seem right.
I agree with you Ledge...
However, some people will never see past what they want to see.
I mean, a trustworthy source has come out and quoted what RD told him face to face. Of course, Roland may have been kidding/lying/exaggerating but either way it reveals a troubling attitude.
But you dismiss it because it doesn't "seem right" that he would then sack Peeters.
I agree with you. Some people never will see past what they want to see.
if roland doesnt care about winning as he says why sack peeters. that bit dont seem right.
I agree with you Ledge...
However, some people will never see past what they want to see.
I mean, a trustworthy source has come out and quoted what RD told him face to face. Of course, Roland may have been kidding/lying/exaggerating but either way it reveals a troubling attitude.
But you dismiss it because it doesn't "seem right" that he would then sack Peeters.
I agree with you. Some people never will see past what they want to see.
It should be dismissed because it is a comment in isolation. Without context it is meaningless. See my comment above.
if roland doesnt care about winning as he says why sack peeters. that bit dont seem right.
He would not play certain players.
like who?
The noise ive heard from within is that not only were the results not great but he was a bit of a twat.
Only going on the interview Bob had after but I would assume Bulot and maybe to some degree George. Heard there was offer stuff as well and it is clear to see that something was not right.
I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about the way RD is doing things, and I'm not happy with some of them myself, but where was everyone when the Two Spiv's were running the show? Under them we lost valued staff and directors in disgraceful circumstances (RE,PV,SK), the pitch was a disgrace, investment in the team had dried up, the stadium was looking shabby and they had no money, to the extent that local small businesses supplying the Club were in extreme financial difficulties and in the case I know of very close to laying off staff because of bills being unpaid. Are things, in general, worse now? I think not.
I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about the way RD is doing things, and I'm not happy with some of them myself, but where was everyone when the Two Spiv's were running the show? Under them we lost valued staff and directors in disgraceful circumstances (RE,PV,SK), the pitch was a disgrace, investment in the team had dried up, the stadium was looking shabby and they had no money, to the extent that local small businesses supplying the Club were in extreme financial difficulties and in the case I know of very close to laying off staff because of bills being unpaid. Are things, in general, worse now? I think not.
I can only talk for myself here large but for me I knew something was not right but had no real facts and was not privy to any inside info that you seem to be on unpaid bills or reasons why staff left.
In regards to the pitch that was bad but i was under the impression that it was a case of them trying to get buy and selling up which they did. RD is not looking to sell up as far as we know.
I do believe there are potential and existing issues with the current ownership, many of these would be addressed by a winning run others by communication of the "project", but there will still be other factors that concern us the fan base ... Inter network transfers for instance. However I also believe that we take single sentence utterances from Roland too literally, for instance the comment from a BBC interview that led to howls of being a Standard Liege feeder club ... If only we had the players to justify such a claim. Or the more recent comment relating to winning. Of course he wants us to win, because defeat results in a net loss of value. Especially when it results in relegation.
I look forward to the Trust meeting when we discuss some of the key issues and hopefully we can evaluate the facts rather than the emotion.
Personally I think the reason many are so hacked off now is because the uncertainty has been going on for a VERY long time. Duchatelet is getting the brunt of the blame now of course, but there were already rumblings back when TJ & Slater were in charge.
I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about the way RD is doing things, and I'm not happy with some of them myself, but where was everyone when the Two Spiv's were running the show? Under them we lost valued staff and directors in disgraceful circumstances (RE,PV,SK), the pitch was a disgrace, investment in the team had dried up, the stadium was looking shabby and they had no money, to the extent that local small businesses supplying the Club were in extreme financial difficulties and in the case I know of very close to laying off staff because of bills being unpaid. Are things, in general, worse now? I think not.
Personally I think the reason many are so hacked off now is because the uncertainty has been going on for a VERY long time. Duchatelet is getting the brunt of the blame now of course, but there were already rumblings back when TJ & Slater were in charge. The previous administration were lucky that they had a distraction, Chris Powell. Many people were loathe to criticise with someone so highly regarded in charge of the team.
Personally I think the reason many are so hacked off now is because the uncertainty has been going on for a VERY long time. Duchatelet is getting the brunt of the blame now of course, but there were already rumblings back when TJ & Slater were in charge.
I find it amusing that everyone is up in arms about the way RD is doing things, and I'm not happy with some of them myself, but where was everyone when the Two Spiv's were running the show? Under them we lost valued staff and directors in disgraceful circumstances (RE,PV,SK), the pitch was a disgrace, investment in the team had dried up, the stadium was looking shabby and they had no money, to the extent that local small businesses supplying the Club were in extreme financial difficulties and in the case I know of very close to laying off staff because of bills being unpaid. Are things, in general, worse now? I think not.
Personally I think the reason many are so hacked off now is because the uncertainty has been going on for a VERY long time. Duchatelet is getting the brunt of the blame now of course, but there were already rumblings back when TJ & Slater were in charge. The previous administration were lucky that they had a distraction, Chris Powell. Many people were loathe to criticise with someone so highly regarded in charge of the team.
and that is the crux of the matter. long term disillusionment that RD is unfairly taking ALL the flack for
Comments
And say, somehow, we make a profit. Where will it go? It won't stay in SE7. Throw in the many things we've been debating for a year, plus new revelations such as winning not being the most important thing, and can you really blame people for worrying about the club that their dads and grandads and great-grandads went to see?
He has also never indicated in public that he sees the premiership as a goal or that he is prepared to invest the money or time to make that happen.
However, what he has said is that he wants to develop a new financial business model for football which involves semi-merging clubs across different leagues. If you are happy with that fine, but it does not equate with wanting football success for Charlton.
How do you know where that 25m euros went? Have you studied the accounts of SL?
Even if he did use it to purchase us or Alcoron, whats that got to do with you or I? Does anyone tell you how to spend your wages?
And as for us making a profit, my friend, we are losing £5 million per year and whose bankrolling that?
His profit comes from player values.
Club profits in no way equates to wages. If we got £5m for Gomez and £5m for Cousins, would you be happy if he went and bought a club in Italy with the £10m?
If RD truly sees us as a business only, then he will never make money in the Championship, no matter how many players he sells. Remember, he would need to find £5 million worth of player sales per year just to break even.
The premiership is his only outlet if he wants to sell us at a profit!
(Mind you, when was the last time you heard a Championship owner say 'my plan is to take this once great club back to where it belongs in the Premier League, then immediately sell it and run off with the money')
It's how that it's operated, that is the main problem.
Things I feel are wrong, that could be rectified :-
The owner needs to communicate more with the fans.
The owner needs to change his policy and stop treating his clubs like car show rooms, to display his assets. We are a team and need to play like a team. You can't just throw in any player from around the network, because he wants them "in the window" and this includes academy players that are not ready for the 1st team.
The owner must stop telling/trying to persuade the coach who should play. Evidence from Powell, Dyer and Peeters.
The owner must change his scouting network, so that it is fit for purpose. Evidence, paying £750K for Polish Pete, not deemed good enough for The Championship & may even struggle at League 2 level.
The owner must ensure that Charlton are given the required players for the correct positions. I accept that we might not get the player we would like. However, we've desperately needed a centre forward for 12 months, but get players, in many positions, except centre forward. The owner is more than aware of this.
The owner needs to change his attitude towards the fans. The "you have no say in the matter, like it or lump it", is not and will not work.
If the above were rectified, the majority of the problems would be dealt with.
The owner must start to respect fans & players. We are people with feelings and emotions. Just because he is lacking in that department, he needs to try harder.
My examples are just a flavour for anyone who will claim, that's not a lot of problems.
Just for context, even Southampton, have failed to make a profit in the Premier League despite their youth system doing rather well. When the 2013/14 figures are released we might see that has changed, but they made losses of around £7m during the 12/13 season and £12m losses the season before.
(Mind you, when was the last time you heard a Championship owner say 'my plan is to take this once great club back to where it belongs in the Premier League, then immediately sell it and run off with the money')
That is absolutey spot on!
This is the thing none of us know what his plans are, its all been just a guessing game. Hopefully the trust will tease the future plans out of RD, we shall see.
However, some people will never see past what they want to see.
The noise ive heard from within is that not only were the results not great but he was a bit of a twat.
But you dismiss it because it doesn't "seem right" that he would then sack Peeters.
I agree with you. Some people never will see past what they want to see.
In regards to the pitch that was bad but i was under the impression that it was a case of them trying to get buy and selling up which they did. RD is not looking to sell up as far as we know.
If he didn't rate Riga, why then appoint him at Liege ?
I look forward to the Trust meeting when we discuss some of the key issues and hopefully we can evaluate the facts rather than the emotion.