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NEW ARTICLE: My Charlton, Your Charlton and what exactly is it that you want?

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  • This is a great well argued thread and in my opinion a perfect example of exactly why the club should seek to communicate with its supporters as best and openly as it can. In any business you can think of, having " customers" who care so much about your "product" you'd be inviting them all round for a drink, they would be right at the centre of your operation :-)
    I really hope the recent turnaround on the pitch is echoed by an upturn in good open dialogue between the club and its supporters. The Charlton community and the club itself deserve that.
  • Scoham for Fans' Director

    Top post and a working brief for KM.

    I'm serious when I say that the above should and could be the mission statement for a new Target 27,000 working group.

    The fans' forum is a great concept and has a real function to look at operational issues but it always existed alongside the old Target 40,000 group which had a remit to look at club development, ticket prices, promotions etc.

    Such as group should be people with the right skills and experience and certainly not a representative council. That is the fans forum's role. No assumption that the members should be former directors, former staff or board members of any particular groups. No one with the initials BH either.
  • Superb post as ever Scoham.
    Agree with Henry Irving suggestion it could form basis of a mission statement of sorts
  • Good stuff scoham
  • I do love a 10 point plan! Well done Scoham
  • The network is difficult to understand - we have got players that have clearly not been up to the task and we have heard the manager at the time has been under pressure to play them. We all know this isn't right. But we have seen some decent players come in. Igor is probably as good as we have had for a while and JBG and Watt have quality. There clearly are some benefits. But for me the network has frustrated as progress has been made but then not capitalised on. I spoke to a Watford supporting mate and he told me that their owners took a while to understand the division and there were some parallels. It is frustrating because there is knowledge that the owner can latch on to but he wants to do it his way without compromise. This way equals mistakes and I think a big one is not finding an English CEO. The strategy could then be better communicated to fans, business errors have been made due to ignorance and inexperience and maybe with somebody who has a better understanding of the fans and the benefits of keeping them onside, and we would be in a better place. The crazy thing about the Peeters sacking was that fans were more annoyed about how things were handled and communicated rather than the act itself. Then you have the tickets, crossbows, statements showing a lack of understanding about building support and you see too many own goals.

    I think part of the problem s that Duchatelet wants somebody he can trust in charge of the club, but he would be better off with somebody the fans trust too. It isn't all gloom, but their have been opportunities that have been passed up. The club has been crying out for a couple of players for too long. One has been a striker. When a striker like Watt finally comes in we look a decent side. But we have seen what was needed for most of the season, it hasn't been a puzzle! The delay has probably cost us a play off place. Ok, a couple of games ago, it was looking like it could cost us more than that, but the network has given us a glimpse of how it can work. The question for me is will it stop scoring unprofessional own goals. I think there have been far too many of these and I am still waiting for the next one.

    Great post, Mutts.

    I think you have put your finger on the one issue that could be crucial to our success or failure ...the engagement of a CEO ( or even a deputy to Katrien) who knows the English FL.



  • The best 'state of Charlton' thread. Ever. Personally, what I really want from Charlton is for it to be like it was between 1992 and 1998, which isn't happening whoever the owner is. So failing that, what Scoham and Grapevine49 have said seems right on the money.

    I think increasing the fan base means appealing to a younger demographic and I'm afraid Palace do that way better than us whether by design or luck. If we have a USP it is as a club for grumpy middle aged men.
  • you appeal to the younger demographic by winning - the last decade has been a bit of a struggle.
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  • 24 Red said:

    The best 'state of Charlton' thread. Ever.

    Totally
  • Scoham said:

    What I want to see that I think RD does bring:

    1. Financial stability. Under RD I'm not worried about administration, point deductions, overspending on transfer fees/player wages etc.

    2. Continue to bring academy players through to become first team regulars. I can accept sometimes they'll be sold, especially if the top clubs come in. What I do also want to see is where possible the best players are signed up on long term contracts so if they are sold we can get a decent fee for them. We're also working towards category 1 which includes improving the facilities, coaching etc which is great to see.

    3. Money spent where it is needed outside of the playing squad, obvious one being the pitch. Not ignoring/cutting back on these areas to save money when it'll only end up causing problems in the future.

    What I want to see but I'm either not seeing or have doubts about while under RD:

    4. A competitive and balanced Championship squad. We just about have enough for now but the squad is still very light up front and even this season we've made a number of questionable signings. Part of this includes players being rewarded with new/extended contracts when it's deserved. I can accept we will occasionally sell one of our best players if a big offer comes in. At Championship level with players on long term deals we shouldn't be selling them cheaply and it gives the squad stability. It also helps us all feel more of a connection with the squad.

    5. Related to the above I want to see well thought out signings, a good percentage being for the longer term. The right characters as well as ability. We shouldn't need to sign 10+ senior players every summer. I know every signing won't be a success but the majority should meet expectations. I don't want to see more unsuitable players from the network or Europe come in. I want us to be in a better position this time next year in terms of both quality and depth of the squad, not the same or worse. We should always be looking to improve the squad, not just survive with short term signings and loans.

    6. Long term managerial appointments. RD has a history of regularly changing managers at Standard Liege and so far we've seen the same here. Through KM the club will say Peeters and Luzon were appointments for the long term but the length of their contracts doesn't suggest that. Luzon may well do a good job but it still looks like an appointment for the network, to save money and in hope that it'll work out rather than a long term appointment purely for Charlton. Fitting in with the two above points, ideally managers/head coaches don't come in wanting to implement a completely different style of play or need to make big changes to the squad.

    7. While RD is here the network is something we're going to be part of. I'm not against it if it's used well, i.e. European scouting helping us sign a player like Gudmundsson, or a suitable player comes in from Standard Liege such as Ben Haim. I suppose it's about the network supporting us, rather than us supporting the network. As I said in point 5 I don't want to see more unsuitable players sent our way. I don't want to see Vetokele or Gudmundsson moved to Standard Liege in the summer.

    8. I want to look forward to games and be entertained as much as realistically possible. I don't expect us to win the league and consistently play exciting football, but for me we're playing at a high enough level with a big enough budget to play decent football. Riga did a good job with what he had. Peeters started fairly well but once teams saw what we were trying to do we were far too cautious, slow and predictable. Too early to judge Luzon but his style looks more suited to the players we have and the league we're in compared to Peeters.

    9. Ambition to eventually win promotion to the Premier League and have the occasional cup run. That generally comes from getting a lot of the above right.

    10. The club attempts to grow or at least maintains it's fan base. It's sad to see some have stopped going, others aren't planning to renew season tickets and attendances are falling. As well as the above clearly it involves improving communication and working with fans where appropriate.

    So that's 3 points I feel RD does offer but 7 I've not seen so far or I'm not convinced about. Until the last few games I thought we were going down. While we should be ok I don't want to see us in the same position this time next year, continuing to constantly change players and head coaches, merely looking to survive at this level. Instead I want to see some stability and working towards our ambitions, keeping and building on the support we've got, maintaining and improving on our squad and facilities.

    Congratulations scoham
    The most sensible post on here.
    Excellent appraisal of the current situation and realistic aims for the future.


  • I want to enjoy my football.
    I want clear communication from the club regarding short and long term ambitions/objectives.
    I want to consider members of the club as honest, hard working individuals who have the best interests at heart for the club.
    I want CAFC to be considered a model football club that can be the envy of the world in the way it is run.
    I want a supporter back on the board.
    I want us to be competitive whatever league we are in, this means that the Owners/Managers must be aware of what needs to be done to reach a competitive level.
    I don't want 3 points every week, if I wanted that I would be a ManureChelskiArseCiteh fan. When the lows are low then the highs are higher.
    And free beer........maybe.
  • Scoham said:

    What I want to see that I think RD does bring:

    1. Financial stability. Under RD I'm not worried about administration, point deductions, overspending on transfer fees/player wages etc.

    2. Continue to bring academy players through to become first team regulars. I can accept sometimes they'll be sold, especially if the top clubs come in. What I do also want to see is where possible the best players are signed up on long term contracts so if they are sold we can get a decent fee for them. We're also working towards category 1 which includes improving the facilities, coaching etc which is great to see.

    3. Money spent where it is needed outside of the playing squad, obvious one being the pitch. Not ignoring/cutting back on these areas to save money when it'll only end up causing problems in the future.

    What I want to see but I'm either not seeing or have doubts about while under RD:

    4. A competitive and balanced Championship squad. We just about have enough for now but the squad is still very light up front and even this season we've made a number of questionable signings. Part of this includes players being rewarded with new/extended contracts when it's deserved. I can accept we will occasionally sell one of our best players if a big offer comes in. At Championship level with players on long term deals we shouldn't be selling them cheaply and it gives the squad stability. It also helps us all feel more of a connection with the squad.

    5. Related to the above I want to see well thought out signings, a good percentage being for the longer term. The right characters as well as ability. We shouldn't need to sign 10+ senior players every summer. I know every signing won't be a success but the majority should meet expectations. I don't want to see more unsuitable players from the network or Europe come in. I want us to be in a better position this time next year in terms of both quality and depth of the squad, not the same or worse. We should always be looking to improve the squad, not just survive with short term signings and loans.

    6. Long term managerial appointments. RD has a history of regularly changing managers at Standard Liege and so far we've seen the same here. Through KM the club will say Peeters and Luzon were appointments for the long term but the length of their contracts doesn't suggest that. Luzon may well do a good job but it still looks like an appointment for the network, to save money and in hope that it'll work out rather than a long term appointment purely for Charlton. Fitting in with the two above points, ideally managers/head coaches don't come in wanting to implement a completely different style of play or need to make big changes to the squad.

    7. While RD is here the network is something we're going to be part of. I'm not against it if it's used well, i.e. European scouting helping us sign a player like Gudmundsson, or a suitable player comes in from Standard Liege such as Ben Haim. I suppose it's about the network supporting us, rather than us supporting the network. As I said in point 5 I don't want to see more unsuitable players sent our way. I don't want to see Vetokele or Gudmundsson moved to Standard Liege in the summer.

    8. I want to look forward to games and be entertained as much as realistically possible. I don't expect us to win the league and consistently play exciting football, but for me we're playing at a high enough level with a big enough budget to play decent football. Riga did a good job with what he had. Peeters started fairly well but once teams saw what we were trying to do we were far too cautious, slow and predictable. Too early to judge Luzon but his style looks more suited to the players we have and the league we're in compared to Peeters.

    9. Ambition to eventually win promotion to the Premier League and have the occasional cup run. That generally comes from getting a lot of the above right.

    10. The club attempts to grow or at least maintains it's fan base. It's sad to see some have stopped going, others aren't planning to renew season tickets and attendances are falling. As well as the above clearly it involves improving communication and working with fans where appropriate.

    So that's 3 points I feel RD does offer but 7 I've not seen so far or I'm not convinced about. Until the last few games I thought we were going down. While we should be ok I don't want to see us in the same position this time next year, continuing to constantly change players and head coaches, merely looking to survive at this level. Instead I want to see some stability and working towards our ambitions, keeping and building on the support we've got, maintaining and improving on our squad and facilities.

    What a fabulous post. This what I want as well & I'd guess nearly all of us.
  • Scoham said:

    What I want to see that I think RD does bring:

    1. Financial stability. Under RD I'm not worried about administration, point deductions, overspending on transfer fees/player wages etc.

    2. Continue to bring academy players through to become first team regulars. I can accept sometimes they'll be sold, especially if the top clubs come in. What I do also want to see is where possible the best players are signed up on long term contracts so if they are sold we can get a decent fee for them. We're also working towards category 1 which includes improving the facilities, coaching etc which is great to see.

    3. Money spent where it is needed outside of the playing squad, obvious one being the pitch. Not ignoring/cutting back on these areas to save money when it'll only end up causing problems in the future.

    What I want to see but I'm either not seeing or have doubts about while under RD:

    4. A competitive and balanced Championship squad. We just about have enough for now but the squad is still very light up front and even this season we've made a number of questionable signings. Part of this includes players being rewarded with new/extended contracts when it's deserved. I can accept we will occasionally sell one of our best players if a big offer comes in. At Championship level with players on long term deals we shouldn't be selling them cheaply and it gives the squad stability. It also helps us all feel more of a connection with the squad.

    5. Related to the above I want to see well thought out signings, a good percentage being for the longer term. The right characters as well as ability. We shouldn't need to sign 10+ senior players every summer. I know every signing won't be a success but the majority should meet expectations. I don't want to see more unsuitable players from the network or Europe come in. I want us to be in a better position this time next year in terms of both quality and depth of the squad, not the same or worse. We should always be looking to improve the squad, not just survive with short term signings and loans.

    6. Long term managerial appointments. RD has a history of regularly changing managers at Standard Liege and so far we've seen the same here. Through KM the club will say Peeters and Luzon were appointments for the long term but the length of their contracts doesn't suggest that. Luzon may well do a good job but it still looks like an appointment for the network, to save money and in hope that it'll work out rather than a long term appointment purely for Charlton. Fitting in with the two above points, ideally managers/head coaches don't come in wanting to implement a completely different style of play or need to make big changes to the squad.

    7. While RD is here the network is something we're going to be part of. I'm not against it if it's used well, i.e. European scouting helping us sign a player like Gudmundsson, or a suitable player comes in from Standard Liege such as Ben Haim. I suppose it's about the network supporting us, rather than us supporting the network. As I said in point 5 I don't want to see more unsuitable players sent our way. I don't want to see Vetokele or Gudmundsson moved to Standard Liege in the summer.

    8. I want to look forward to games and be entertained as much as realistically possible. I don't expect us to win the league and consistently play exciting football, but for me we're playing at a high enough level with a big enough budget to play decent football. Riga did a good job with what he had. Peeters started fairly well but once teams saw what we were trying to do we were far too cautious, slow and predictable. Too early to judge Luzon but his style looks more suited to the players we have and the league we're in compared to Peeters.

    9. Ambition to eventually win promotion to the Premier League and have the occasional cup run. That generally comes from getting a lot of the above right.

    10. The club attempts to grow or at least maintains it's fan base. It's sad to see some have stopped going, others aren't planning to renew season tickets and attendances are falling. As well as the above clearly it involves improving communication and working with fans where appropriate.

    So that's 3 points I feel RD does offer but 7 I've not seen so far or I'm not convinced about. Until the last few games I thought we were going down. While we should be ok I don't want to see us in the same position this time next year, continuing to constantly change players and head coaches, merely looking to survive at this level. Instead I want to see some stability and working towards our ambitions, keeping and building on the support we've got, maintaining and improving on our squad and facilities.

    What a fabulous post. This what I want as well & I'd guess nearly all of us.
    Could this not be printed out & sent to Katrien ( for Roland's perusal) ?

  • Some fantastic posts on this thread.

    What I want more than anything is to be respected as a fan and treated as an adult.

    Sometimes I feel like we have regressed to feudal times when we are the peasants and the owner is our overlord, deciding our fate on a whim.

    Silence wench! :smile:
  • Davo55 said:

    Some fantastic posts on this thread.

    What I want more than anything is to be respected as a fan and treated as an adult.

    Sometimes I feel like we have regressed to feudal times when we are the peasants and the owner is our overlord, deciding our fate on a whim.

    Silence wench! :smile:
    That was worryingly spooky, Davo !

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  • Davo55 said:

    Some fantastic posts on this thread.

    What I want more than anything is to be respected as a fan and treated as an adult.

    Sometimes I feel like we have regressed to feudal times when we are the peasants and the owner is our overlord, deciding our fate on a whim.

    Silence wench! :smile:
    That was worryingly spooky, Davo !

    I think you win it with the "thy" Fanny. :smile:
  • I just want to be proud of my club.
    Some fantastic posts say it all for me.
  • vffvff
    edited February 2015
    Some great posts on this thread.

    It is an important thread this one. When the new season ticket offer comes with the tag line 'building a better future together' then it is vital to establish what are the core values of the club and what better future is it that is being built together. Also what good things of the past are being brought into the future and what things do we not not want or need.

    I would like my club to always play in the ground that it owned. The club should never rent with the money going to an owning company. If the club did ever move to a different decent location with commercial and residential monies then this should be paid to the club rather than to a parent company.

    I would like the club to recognise the importance of fan involvement in the existence of the club and support decent communication with organisations such as the Trust. The supporters and club pulling together can result in Charlton punching above its weight.

    The Academy needs to be at the heart at of the club. Young players should be given a chance, but at the same time, I don't want to see them pitched in too early. I want to see enough experience and quality in the club to see that Charlton get full value for the excellent players that come through the club. Category 1 status would support that. Charlton also need to be challenging in the top half of the Championship or be in the Premiership.

    I want to be proud of my club and being at heart of the community is vital for continued existence and growth of the club. The club needs to be ambitious, play decent attractive passing football and strive to reach the Premiership.
  • edited March 2015
    Thanks AFKA this is the debate we should be having. I have said on other threads when I compare us to other clubs I do not fell too bad with the irrational decision I made all those years ago.

    I can't identify with modern football in the way I loved the game in my teenage years but I still have a strong emotional connection to Charlton . The fact even under Roland that the club still makes attendance affordable must be praised in my view . That is very old style Charlton . One of the things I liked in the Prem years is that I never felt the club lost sight of that . Indeed the likes of Airman Brown deserve great credit for that .

    What is my Charlton? I saw games when I was very young but for me the first team which felt like mine was the Andy Nelson era moving on to Mike Bailey's promotion team in 1980/81. I would stand at the top of the East Terrace with my Dad watching Flanagan and Hales. I pestered him into getting a season ticket despite his shift work commitments and from then on I was addickted . Together we have continued to watch games and when we do not go I always check in with him to discuss the results .Over the last 10 years my son has joined us . This was why Chris Powell's promotion was so special . At the Hartlepool game three generations could share the success.

    I wonder what would have happened had I gone elsewhere ? Had I supported Arsenal , Chelsea ,Spurs or West Ham I suspect I would have been priced out of watching live football. Friends I know who support them now go once a season or have gravitated to a smaller club . Orient in particular seems to attract that floating support . I now live in Walthamstow and can walk to Brisbane Road in around half an hour . I have former work connections with their excellent Supporters' Club and go there a few times a season . I enjoy it but it doesn't feel like 'mine' in the way Charlton does.

    Most other London teams like us have had ups and downs . In terms of football until the recent upturn in form this just seems to be a downer.

    Charlton always felt like a friendly club to me . It does not have the hard edge of Millwall ,but then I wouldn't want it to . I am much happier going away somewhere like Leeds and being able to drink in the town centre . I have particularly enjoyed the away trips and over a 30 plus year period I completed the 92 primarily with Charlton.

    But for me yesterday as I have said on the other thread it was about the return of Dennis and @Miserableoldgit . Both passionate Charlton supporters who will hopefully return more often . That is what the soul of my Charlton is about as much as the owners , managers and players .
  • The romanticism of football started dying years ago for me and the likes of Wimbledons climbing the league to win the cup seem to been gone never to return.

    Based on that I want us to keep our identity as much as possible in terms of playing location being at the Valley or not far from there and keep prices affordable whilst aiming to achieve cold hard success if those things aren't mutually exclusive.

    Bar a couple of superb seasons my 25+ years of supporting the club has been pretty devoid of real success on the pitch.

    I would be happy if we can get back into the top flight and compete there for a few years with decent cup runs. I would like to see us miraculously break into Champions League football after a Zabeel type deal. Man city have done it and retained a lot of their identity and I am sure after years of mediocrity their fans love it today.

    The game has changed so much and with such easy access to football on tv etc I think the only real way to attract new support is through cold hard success on the pitch. Otherwise kids will just go and support Arsenal.



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Roland Out Forever!