1000 People Killed In Qatar - Building World Cup Stadiums for 2022?

Mendonca In Asdas

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but my son said to me the other day about the death rates over the years in different countries regarding building stadia for major sporting events , like the Olympics / World Cup etc and said he'd heard 1000 workers had died so far, which i'd not heard before , but sounded like a heck of a lot.

I found this article from 2014, which i guess i missed, but if true , how the heck is this going ahead, apart from money, its the equivalent of the Titanic sinking , and us still talking about it 100 years later, its like a 911 event that gets brushed under the carpet.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/14/qatar-admits-deaths-in-migrant-workers

E_cafc

There are some charts on the other fifa thread............"Fifa say the Qatar vote was fine". I think the death toll is actually 1,200 now.

NomadicAddick

Disturbing.

And to think people are completely wetting themselves over whether it's going to be played 6 months later. There are a lot bigger problems with the 2022 world cup than that, such as a complete disregard for any human rights for the workers who are no doubt tricked into coming over to the middle east with the promise of a better life, only to be housed in dire conditions and risk their lives every day in the name of corruption.

The whole thing is a JOKE.

Lincsaddick

NomadicAddick said:

Disturbing.

And to think people are completely wetting themselves over whether it's going to be played 6 months later. There are a lot bigger problems with the 2022 world cup than that, such as a complete disregard for any human rights for the workers who are no doubt tricked into coming over to the middle east with the promise of a better life, only to be housed in dire conditions and risk their lives every day in the name of corruption.

The whole thing is a JOKE.

This .. if the various non -FIFA footballing bodies had any bottle they would boycott this tournament which has been bought by corruption and bribery .. anyway, who needs FIFA ? .. the separate and most powerful nations could/should abandon FIFA and set up their own new governing body rather as the Premier League did when it quit the Football League

colthe3rd

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

ForeverAddickted

No doubt it'll be... Sorry cant hear you!!

Red_Pete_in_Dubai

MIA's heading is totally misleading. What the article actually says is that 1,000 migrant workers died in Qatar in 2012 + 2013.
It says that many of these died from "sudden cardiac arrest" (which probably means they had a heart attack) & also that the number of deaths resulting from work-related injuries was low. I doubt whether anybody actually died building the World Cup Stadiums for 2022 as these would barely have been started in 2012 or 2013.

Don't get me wrong, the headline number of deaths is absolutely shocking & many, many improvements are required in Qatar for these very lowly paid migrant labourers, but there is no need to totally distort the reality of the situation with fanciful titles.

NomadicAddick

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

ValleyGary

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

From memory a lot of people on here complained about it at the time.

NomadicAddick

Red_Pete in Dubai said:

MIA's heading is totally misleading. What the article actually says is that 1,000 migrant workers died in Qatar in 2012 + 2013.
It says that many of these died from "sudden cardiac arrest" (which probably means they had a heart attack) & also that the number of deaths resulting from work-related injuries was low. I doubt whether anybody actually died building the World Cup Stadiums for 2022 as these would barely have been started in 2012 or 2013.

Don't get me wrong, the headline number of deaths is absolutely shocking & many, many improvements are required in Qatar for these very lowly paid migrant labourers, but there is no need to totally distort the reality of the situation with fanciful titles.

But who files these death reports? ''many of them from unexplained sudden illness, over the past two years, at a rate of more than one a day.''

Yeah right.

Friend Or Defoe

Franz Beckenbauer visited Qatar and stated that nothing was wrong. What a scum bag.

colthe3rd

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

I didn't say no one cared about what was going on in Brazil, I just said fewer cared than they seemingly do about Qatar. I don't think that's a generalisation at all.

Fair point about the workers being killed but I was more pointing out the similarities in both countries in that they both have human rights issues. Brazil for example knocked down homes and schools to build stadiums, their attempts at "cleaning up" the favelas as well is very questionable. That ignores the huge public spending on a tournament when there is a high poverty rate in the country.

I'm not trying to play a game of human rights one-upmanship but I just find it odd people would point out at what is going on in Qatar but the same kept quiet about Brazil. It seems some just want to use it as another thing to beat FIFA with, which is fine but I don't think we can pick and choose.

NomadicAddick

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

I didn't say no one cared about what was going on in Brazil, I just said fewer cared than they seemingly do about Qatar. I don't think that's a generalisation at all.

Fair point about the workers being killed but I was more pointing out the similarities in both countries in that they both have human rights issues. Brazil for example knocked down homes and schools to build stadiums, their attempts at "cleaning up" the favelas as well is very questionable. That ignores the huge public spending on a tournament when there is a high poverty rate in the country.

I'm not trying to play a game of human rights one-upmanship but I just find it odd people would point out at what is going on in Qatar but the same kept quiet about Brazil. It seems some just want to use it as another thing to beat FIFA with, which is fine but I don't think we can pick and choose.

Well it doesn't read like that. You didn't mention quantity you just said 'people' that's why myself and others felt the need to point out that we did in fact mention it prior to 2014 World Cup.

colthe3rd

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

I didn't say no one cared about what was going on in Brazil, I just said fewer cared than they seemingly do about Qatar. I don't think that's a generalisation at all.

Fair point about the workers being killed but I was more pointing out the similarities in both countries in that they both have human rights issues. Brazil for example knocked down homes and schools to build stadiums, their attempts at "cleaning up" the favelas as well is very questionable. That ignores the huge public spending on a tournament when there is a high poverty rate in the country.

I'm not trying to play a game of human rights one-upmanship but I just find it odd people would point out at what is going on in Qatar but the same kept quiet about Brazil. It seems some just want to use it as another thing to beat FIFA with, which is fine but I don't think we can pick and choose.

Well it doesn't read like that. You didn't mention quantity you just said 'people' that's why myself and others felt the need to point out that we did in fact mention it prior to 2014 World Cup.

Selective quoting there

NomadicAddick

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

I didn't say no one cared about what was going on in Brazil, I just said fewer cared than they seemingly do about Qatar. I don't think that's a generalisation at all.

Fair point about the workers being killed but I was more pointing out the similarities in both countries in that they both have human rights issues. Brazil for example knocked down homes and schools to build stadiums, their attempts at "cleaning up" the favelas as well is very questionable. That ignores the huge public spending on a tournament when there is a high poverty rate in the country.

I'm not trying to play a game of human rights one-upmanship but I just find it odd people would point out at what is going on in Qatar but the same kept quiet about Brazil. It seems some just want to use it as another thing to beat FIFA with, which is fine but I don't think we can pick and choose.

Well it doesn't read like that. You didn't mention quantity you just said 'people' that's why myself and others felt the need to point out that we did in fact mention it prior to 2014 World Cup.

Selective quoting there

'' I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.'' happy?

Mendonca In Asdas

I raised the question , and put a question mark on the end , because i wanted to see what other people had read , whether this was actually true /or a cover up.

My son reeled off the different sporting events , and whilst a life is a life , regardless of numbers, i think he said 8 people had died in Brazil , zero for the London Olympics, he quoted 1000 lifes lost in Qatar as a matter of fact , the Guardian article is just me trying to find out if this is true, because if its , its a bloody disgrace (sorry for my language) that i hadn't previously heard about.

colthe3rd

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

NomadicAddick said:

colthe3rd said:

Football fans are notoriously fickle and this whole issue goes to prove it. Focusing on the human rights element for the moment, there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil yet look at what was and still is going on in that country. Yet, because as Brazil are a nation with a rich history of playing the game much fewer called for a boycott.

Not to defend what is going on in Qatar or the whole "bidding" process but I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.

Very sweeping statement a hell of a lot of people were concerned with the human rights in Brazil. Similarly a lot of the riots were related to poor governing and poor use of expenditure not necessarily human rights violations. There is a reason that there are a lot more calls to boycott the world cup in 2022 and that's basically because Brazil were not consciously sending workers to their death. I may be wrong but I think there was 8 related deaths, which is of course tragic but not on the same scale as Qatar and considering it is still 7 years away, these calls are very much justified and to say it is hypocritical is quite tedious.

I didn't say no one cared about what was going on in Brazil, I just said fewer cared than they seemingly do about Qatar. I don't think that's a generalisation at all.

Fair point about the workers being killed but I was more pointing out the similarities in both countries in that they both have human rights issues. Brazil for example knocked down homes and schools to build stadiums, their attempts at "cleaning up" the favelas as well is very questionable. That ignores the huge public spending on a tournament when there is a high poverty rate in the country.

I'm not trying to play a game of human rights one-upmanship but I just find it odd people would point out at what is going on in Qatar but the same kept quiet about Brazil. It seems some just want to use it as another thing to beat FIFA with, which is fine but I don't think we can pick and choose.

Well it doesn't read like that. You didn't mention quantity you just said 'people' that's why myself and others felt the need to point out that we did in fact mention it prior to 2014 World Cup.

Selective quoting there

'' I do find it very hypocritical for people to bring up the human issues in Qatar but equally were happy to ignore them for Brazil.'' happy?

Well leaving out the earlier part of my post:
"there were not nearly as many calls to boycott the WC in Brazil"
which implies that I clearly don't mean everyone. But yeah carry on pal.

NomadicAddick

Mendonca In Asdas said:

I raised the question , and put a question mark on the end , because i wanted to see what other people had read , whether this was actually true /or a cover up.

My son reeled off the different sporting events , and whilst a life is a life , regardless of numbers, i think he said 8 people had died in Brazil , zero for the London Olympics, he quoted 1000 lifes lost in Qatar as a matter of fact , the Guardian article is just me trying to find out if this is true, because if its , its a bloody disgrace (sorry for my language) that i hadn't previously heard about.

I agree. This isn't the first case of workers rights being abused to build these extravagant things in the middle east and wont be the last. I've read a lot about it over the years and it's terrible. Think I remember watching a feature a while back by VICE, it's on youtube and it's called Slaves of Dubai. Very disturbing but worth a watch just to put it into perspective of what is going on.

Ledge

This is like spoils of war to FIFA . fact is these countries are not going to have the stringent h&s we have so inevtiably there going to be deaths/ accidents. to fifa theyre just manageable statisitics. believe brazil was similar.

JiMMy 85

Red_Pete in Dubai said:

MIA's heading is totally misleading. What the article actually says is that 1,000 migrant workers died in Qatar in 2012 + 2013.
It says that many of these died from "sudden cardiac arrest" (which probably means they had a heart attack) & also that the number of deaths resulting from work-related injuries was low. I doubt whether anybody actually died building the World Cup Stadiums for 2022 as these would barely have been started in 2012 or 2013.

Don't get me wrong, the headline number of deaths is absolutely shocking & many, many improvements are required in Qatar for these very lowly paid migrant labourers, but there is no need to totally distort the reality of the situation with fanciful titles.

This debate has happened on Reddit a fair bit. This post was pasted from a user who responded to a similar post to yours, Red Pete, which I found interesting (although hasten to add I've got absolutely no expertise in any of this, I just go by what I read on forums and the press).

"The 'World Cup project' classification is bullshit because it only counts stadiums, of which only 1 has started construction and it at the moment is just a hole in the ground. This is what allowed Qatar to claim last year that there were no World Cup related deaths.
Reality is that almost all construction is related to World Cup construction. Prior to being announced to the world, nobody knew where the hell Qatar was and their tourism numbers were about on par with Swaziland (~900k per year).

The projects that are today killing workers are the train lines, highways, airports, hotels, shopping malls, etc. that foreign tourists will be visiting in 7 years time because of the World Cup. You can't endorse one slither of their opressive practices while denouncing the other - they are one and the same. The separation into 'world cup projects' was a clever PR spin pulled off by Qatar's well paid PR people."

Read more here: http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2x06eg/that_is_quite_a_lot_of_dead_workers_for_a/

Mortimerician

Of course the suggested reforms are essential, but the thread title is a lie. I don't believe that anyone has died building a stadium. I don't believe any stadia have been built. The linked article doesn't mention stadia.

MrOneLung

maybe our health and safety isnt as good as some other countries too.

Maybe those countries are all in uproar at us.

JiMMy 85

Mortimerician said:

Of course the suggested reforms are essential, but the thread title is a lie. I don't believe that anyone has died building a stadium. I don't believe any stadia have been built. The linked article doesn't mention stadia.

Change the word 'stadium' to 'infrastructure' and then it's spot on. The literal difference is obviously massive, but the upshot is exactly the same.

Algarveaddick

MrOneLung said:

maybe our health and safety isnt as good as some other countries too.

Maybe those countries are all in uproar at us.

No - because The Grauniad would be all "Hair shirt and birch twigs" over it, and the Fail would be spluttering and frothing about "How dare Johnny Foreigner say this about us"...

Friend Or Defoe

MrOneLung said:

maybe our health and safety isnt as good as some other countries too.

Maybe those countries are all in uproar at us.

Our health and safety is amongst the best in the world. Ridiculous post.

thenewbie

I do wonder if the whole 'corruption' issue is just going to be bashing of heads against a stone wall. I'm not saying it doesn't happen merely that for the most part many countries don't really seem to share the distaste/anger that such things cause here. Perhaps the odd bung here or there or a sweetener to the deal is just how business is done! Italy is perhaps the most obvious example but there could be others. No-one (else) cares about the problem if they even see it AS a problem.

I could be wrong there though, just seems that way to me.

QatarNapsy

JiMMy 85 said:

Red_Pete in Dubai said:

MIA's heading is totally misleading. What the article actually says is that 1,000 migrant workers died in Qatar in 2012 + 2013.
It says that many of these died from "sudden cardiac arrest" (which probably means they had a heart attack) & also that the number of deaths resulting from work-related injuries was low. I doubt whether anybody actually died building the World Cup Stadiums for 2022 as these would barely have been started in 2012 or 2013.

Don't get me wrong, the headline number of deaths is absolutely shocking & many, many improvements are required in Qatar for these very lowly paid migrant labourers, but there is no need to totally distort the reality of the situation with fanciful titles.

This debate has happened on Reddit a fair bit. This post was pasted from a user who responded to a similar post to yours, Red Pete, which I found interesting (although hasten to add I've got absolutely no expertise in any of this, I just go by what I read on forums and the press).

"The 'World Cup project' classification is bullshit because it only counts stadiums, of which only 1 has started construction and it at the moment is just a hole in the ground. This is what allowed Qatar to claim last year that there were no World Cup related deaths.
Reality is that almost all construction is related to World Cup construction. Prior to being announced to the world, nobody knew where the hell Qatar was and their tourism numbers were about on par with Swaziland (~900k per year).

The projects that are today killing workers are the train lines, highways, airports, hotels, shopping malls, etc. that foreign tourists will be visiting in 7 years time because of the World Cup. You can't endorse one slither of their opressive practices while denouncing the other - they are one and the same. The separation into 'world cup projects' was a clever PR spin pulled off by Qatar's well paid PR people."

Read more here: http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2x06eg/that_is_quite_a_lot_of_dead_workers_for_a/

Officially not accurate, its in line with the Qatar National Vision 2030. These plans were drafted before they were given the world cup, but it has definitely acted as a catalyst for projects. Unofficially they go hand in hand obviously, but the country was just a sand pit 15 years ago so all infrastructure is either being built new or upgraded, regardless of stadiums.

WSS

How would you know @QatarNapsy?

QatarNapsy

About which bit @WSS ?

Friend Or Defoe

WSS said:

How would you know @QatarNapsy?

I think there's a clue in their username.

Callumcafc

I think the thing he was getting at was potential Qatari censorship. Or maybe I misread the whole situation.