Labour are threatening to torpedo the expansion of a school in Sevenoaks despite it having almost unaminous local support and Labour having nearly zero mandate in the South East, so the door really does swing both ways on this. Either one party allows the public to circumvent central government, or the other party tries to impose a Soviet-style one-size fits all school system across the entire country despite massive variations in local needs from area to area.
I work at one of the schools that would be affected by this. I don't think the kids there have any clue... And even if they did I'm not sure any of them would be bothered, it could do with becoming an academy because it isn't working at the moment. Little buggers the lot of them.
I work at one of the schools that would be affected by this. I don't think the kids there have any clue... And even if they did I'm not sure any of them would be bothered, it could do with becoming an academy because it isn't working at the moment. Little buggers the lot of them.
Doubleplusungood words on our little comrades, comrade. What has happened to comrade lewy? Have the fascist state sponsored army known as the police got to him?
I work at one of the schools that would be affected by this. I don't think the kids there have any clue... And even if they did I'm not sure any of them would be bothered, it could do with becoming an academy because it isn't working at the moment. Little buggers the lot of them.
Doubleplusungood words on our little comrades, comrade. What has happened to comrade lewy? Have the fascist state sponsored army known as the police got to him?
I managed to find him and deal with him. After all with the billions of pounds we earn from academies in profits we can wipe anyone we want out with our evil masterplans.
I work at one of the schools that would be affected by this. I don't think the kids there have any clue... And even if they did I'm not sure any of them would be bothered, it could do with becoming an academy because it isn't working at the moment. Little buggers the lot of them.
Doubleplusungood words on our little comrades, comrade. What has happened to comrade lewy? Have the fascist state sponsored army known as the police got to him?
Double French today innit and Miss Agneau is a right little minx isn't she?
Academy watch update. So Lord Harris is visiting the school my wife works at today, when it's been revealed they've already got rid of five 'distruptive' pupils. Anyway, the smartest, most articulate pupils have been selected to be filmed giving inspirational speeches for Lord Harris. Their reward is to watch a film of Lord Harris watching their films. Like I said, substitute L Ron Hubbard and everyone would be thinking how strange this all sounds.
That's a bit of luck the five disruptive pupils can go to a proper school now. We must do everything within our power to ensure our education system continues to strive for equal mediocrity.
My Daughter who attends an academy got her mock English exam result today it was an A.
Yeah. But don't let that stop you getting in the way of a rant at private sector involvement in state services! God what kind of half hearted lefty are you?!
My Daughter who attends an academy got her mock English exam result today it was an A.
absolute lies. Any school to do with the private sector only sit the children in front of a subliminal video all day telling them to eat all the poor people and to let each other be CEO's of each others companies.
Students get A's and A*'s in all kinds of schools, being an Academy isn't the factor, it's mainly down to the input of the student, and what happens in the classroom.
Students get A's and A*'s in all kinds of schools, being an Academy isn't the factor, it's mainly down to the input of the student, and what happens in the classroom.
And parents perhaps? I would assume that many private school kids do so well because their parent/ parents put time and effort into ensuring they study, work hard and do well at school .... they surely care about their education if they are paying thousands for it.
Of course many non private schooled kids will have parents who do care as much but the numbers are likely skewed by the masses of parents at non private schools that really couldn't give a monkey's toss about their children's education, or even, like at my school their children.
Will also be private school children whose parents don't really care much about their education either but I think that parenting and discipline probably has a lot to do with achieving results as much as small class sizes and quality of teaching.
It is easy to say the state, schools, teachers are failing but the children themselves and parents need to take responsibility too surely?
Students get A's and A*'s in all kinds of schools, being an Academy isn't the factor, it's mainly down to the input of the student, and what happens in the classroom.
And parents perhaps? I would assume that many private school kids do so well because their parent/ parents put time and effort into ensuring they study, work hard and do well at school .... they surely care about their education if they are paying thousands for it.
Of course many non private schooled kids will have parents who do care as much but the numbers are likely skewed by the masses of parents at non private schools that really couldn't give a monkey's toss about their children's education, or even, like at my school their children.
Will also be private school children whose parents don't really care much about their education either but I think that parenting and discipline probably has a lot to do with achieving results as much as small class sizes and quality of teaching.
It is easy to say the state, schools, teachers are failing but the children themselves and parents need to take responsibility too surely?
Indeed, the problem is almost anybody can have children, but not everybody knows how to support their children in school even if they want to. The thread is about Academies however, and whilst they can't compensate much for bad parenting, they have the power, along with private schools, to keep the poorly parented students out, and those students can be somebody else's problem.
I find a very strong correlation between the number of books in a student's home and how well they achieve at school. Whatever the school. Whatever socio-economic group the parents/guardians are from.
I find a very strong correlation between the number of books in a student's home and how well they achieve at school. Whatever the school. Whatever socio-economic group the parents/guardians are from.
Agree. It goes without saying that a child who loves books is more likely to enjoy learning so less likely to be disruptive.
Survey I recall said only one third of parents read regularly to their children. Half of the problems experienced by schools are down to trying to remedy the effect of parents who do not nurture their children.
The discussion should be revolving around who gets the job of providing the expensive individual attention that is required to give these kids half a chance and who pays for it rather than Academies good or bad.
Alternatively, we get parents who need it, educated before schools waste their time and money trying to educate their children.
Devil's advocate - would people be in favour of the Government funding academies for children who are repeatedly disruptive in the style of military academies? Eg if a pupil is expelled they spend the rest of the academic year boarding at a school similar to a military school. If their behaviour improves and they and their parents appeal they could be transferred back to the civilian schools. We don't want a return to borstals but at the same time kids who are willingly disrupting the normal education system are continuously recycled through the state schools until they leave and probably end up getting in trouble with the coppers. Why not nip the issue in the bud when they're young? Either they'll be scared straight by a tough regime or maybe they'll excel at it and be motivated into applying themselves.
Devil's advocate - would people be in favour of the Government funding academies for children who are repeatedly disruptive in the style of military academies? Eg if a pupil is expelled they spend the rest of the academic year boarding at a school similar to a military school. If their behaviour improves and they and their parents appeal they could be transferred back to the civilian schools. We don't want a return to borstals but at the same time kids who are willingly disrupting the normal education system are continuously recycled through the state schools until they leave and probably end up getting in trouble with the coppers. Why not nip the issue in the bud when they're young? Either they'll be scared straight by a tough regime or maybe they'll excel at it and be motivated into applying themselves.
The disruption is not simply about behaviour whatever that is. Your model is a bit like punishing children for stuff that frustrates then like dyslexia, or for being adolescent, or for having inadequate parents, or even for being poor. As a society we bring children into this world, and than very often punish them for being themselves. Your idea is about conditioning, carrot and stick and all that, and I can see where you're coming from, but it swerves the harder point about why we school children at all. If we all agree that schooling is to scare children 'straight' (and that is a dangerous idea in itself), then we will know where we stand, and will have to live with the consequences.
Devil's advocate - would people be in favour of the Government funding academies for children who are repeatedly disruptive in the style of military academies? Eg if a pupil is expelled they spend the rest of the academic year boarding at a school similar to a military school. If their behaviour improves and they and their parents appeal they could be transferred back to the civilian schools. We don't want a return to borstals but at the same time kids who are willingly disrupting the normal education system are continuously recycled through the state schools until they leave and probably end up getting in trouble with the coppers. Why not nip the issue in the bud when they're young? Either they'll be scared straight by a tough regime or maybe they'll excel at it and be motivated into applying themselves.
The disruption is not simply about behaviour whatever that is. Your model is a bit like punishing children for stuff that frustrates then like dyslexia, or for being adolescent, or for having inadequate parents, or even for being poor. As a society we bring children into this world, and than very often punish them for being themselves. Your idea is about conditioning, carrot and stick and all that, and I can see where you're coming from, but it swerves the harder point about why we school children at all. If we all agree that schooling is to scare children 'straight' (and that is a dangerous idea in itself), then we will know where we stand, and will have to live with the consequences.
Fair point. As I said it was merely Devils advocate. By disruptive pupils I definitely do not mean kids with disabilities and learning difficulties and these kids should have every bit of support they can get to have a 'normal' school life. I actually don't imagine much of the youth population is made up of tearaways who deal drugs, fight, set desks on fire etc. so I imagine there is little need for such measures as military school anyway. Much better the money was spent helping kids who need it than those who are wilfully disruptive.
Wilful disruption is a problem especially as the majority of children don't disrupt. The disruption can usually be traced back to a reason and I suppose there is how do we deal with that. Academies would probably rater leave that problem to others.
Wilful disruption is a problem especially as the majority of children don't disrupt. The disruption can usually be traced back to a reason and I suppose there is how do we deal with that. Academies would probably rater leave that problem to others.
I've known kids who are violent and act out and that can be traced back to family problems or issues relating to their socio-economic status. Likewise I've known kids who come from normal loving families and aren't from a disadvantaged background and still feel the need to set desks on fire or vandalise cars. Some kids, just like people, are just pillocks.
Wilful disruption is a problem especially as the majority of children don't disrupt. The disruption can usually be traced back to a reason and I suppose there is how do we deal with that. Academies would probably rater leave that problem to others.
I've known kids who are violent and act out and that can be traced back to family problems or issues relating to their socio-economic status. Likewise I've known kids who come from normal loving families and aren't from a disadvantaged background and still feel the need to set desks on fire or vandalise cars. Some kids, just like people, are just pillocks.
Well maybe they're born to disrupt schooling, but I suspect the causes of the disruption are more complex. Nevertheless the children are here, and all schools, including Academies should try to deal with them.
I can only speak from experience. My youngest went to a very large secondary down here (she is now 25). She has Dyspraxia and mild Dyslexia and God bless her was streamed as to her educational needs. The trouble began because she was mixed in with the more disruptive school population (some heart breaking circumstances of course...). Her whole experience in education from that point was ruined along with every other kid with similar need. This was due to a significant section of her year being disruptive to the detriment of everything else that school was trying to do.
It has affected her whole life, she confided in me a couple of years ago that she avoids going anywhere in the vicinity of the place even now, the experience was that unhappy.
I can only speak from experience. My youngest went to a very large secondary down here (she is now 25). She has Dyspraxia and mild Dyslexia and God bless her was streamed as to her educational needs. The trouble began because she was mixed in with the more disruptive school population (some heart breaking circumstances of course...). Her whole experience in education from that point was ruined along with every other kid with similar need. This was due to a significant section of her year being disruptive to the detriment of everything else that school was trying to do.
It has affected her whole life, she confided in me a couple of years ago that she avoids going anywhere in the vicinity of the place even now, the experience was that unhappy.
This is a heartbreaking story, and I hope your daughter can build a happy future for herself. Especially heartbreaking because youyou usually only get one go at education. The lesson for others is to watch what schools do like a hawk. The school wasn't doing right by your daughter.
I can only speak from experience. My youngest went to a very large secondary down here (she is now 25). She has Dyspraxia and mild Dyslexia and God bless her was streamed as to her educational needs. The trouble began because she was mixed in with the more disruptive school population (some heart breaking circumstances of course...). Her whole experience in education from that point was ruined along with every other kid with similar need. This was due to a significant section of her year being disruptive to the detriment of everything else that school was trying to do.
It has affected her whole life, she confided in me a couple of years ago that she avoids going anywhere in the vicinity of the place even now, the experience was that unhappy.
This is a heartbreaking story, and I hope your daughter can build a happy future for herself. Especially heartbreaking because youyou usually only get one go at education. The lesson for others is to watch what schools do like a hawk. The school wasn't doing right by your daughter.
It is, but if the school isn't listening, if the school cannot listen because it is under siege from that sort of behaviour, in fairness I do not think they could of done more under the circumstances. I hope things have changed, I fear they have not.
I can only speak from experience. My youngest went to a very large secondary down here (she is now 25). She has Dyspraxia and mild Dyslexia and God bless her was streamed as to her educational needs. The trouble began because she was mixed in with the more disruptive school population (some heart breaking circumstances of course...). Her whole experience in education from that point was ruined along with every other kid with similar need. This was due to a significant section of her year being disruptive to the detriment of everything else that school was trying to do.
It has affected her whole life, she confided in me a couple of years ago that she avoids going anywhere in the vicinity of the place even now, the experience was that unhappy.
This is a heartbreaking story, and I hope your daughter can build a happy future for herself. Especially heartbreaking because youyou usually only get one go at education. The lesson for others is to watch what schools do like a hawk. The school wasn't doing right by your daughter.
It is, but if the school isn't listening, if the school cannot listen because it is under siege from that sort of behaviour, in fairness I do not think they could of done more under the circumstances. I hope things have changed, I fear they have not.
What should that school have done if it was saddled with a group of disruptive pupils that were not themselves SENs? They were always going to disrupt someone's education unless Fiish's idea was pursued and Soapy's daughter was one of the unlucky ones. And here is one of the things about Academies. They want I think to be able to exclude the disruptive ones.
I'm not offering a solution here but am interested in what people think the solution is other than caning the disruptive ness out of the disruptive ones ( in my school days corporal punishment tended to control this problem but I don't defend that or call for its reinstatement).
The solution is difficult and costly. One approach is to declare to all children 'you will jolly well comply', and somehow through threat, fear and punishment you break them down until they comply. The questions arising from that is 'what if they don't? what if they can't? what are they being forced to comply with anyway? what if their parents encourage non compliance? how does it all feed into he law? what is the actual role of a teacher in all this? Throughout time there have been kids reluctant to participate in schooling. Shakespeare referenced it, Mark Twain observed that Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn would rather not be in school, but fishing. Documentaries on TV about schools seem to focus 95% on the reluctant kids even if that only represents 5% of the schools work (makes more exciting TV than the steady plod of teaching and learning). Until we recognise that to be educated demands a kind of willing contract between teacher and learner, and that shaping that contract is resource consuming, then there will always be unwilling kids. It may well start with what we as a society want from education which I don't think we know ourselves, beyond wanting 'everything'.
Comments
...well she was when I was at school anyway.
#firstcrush
Of course many non private schooled kids will have parents who do care as much but the numbers are likely skewed by the masses of parents at non private schools that really couldn't give a monkey's toss about their children's education, or even, like at my school their children.
Will also be private school children whose parents don't really care much about their education either but I think that parenting and discipline probably has a lot to do with achieving results as much as small class sizes and quality of teaching.
It is easy to say the state, schools, teachers are failing but the children themselves and parents need to take responsibility too surely?
The thread is about Academies however, and whilst they can't compensate much for bad parenting, they have the power, along with private schools, to keep the poorly parented students out, and those students can be somebody else's problem.
Whatever the school.
Whatever socio-economic group the parents/guardians are from.
Survey I recall said only one third of parents read regularly to their children. Half of the problems experienced by schools are down to trying to remedy the effect of parents who do not nurture their children.
The discussion should be revolving around who gets the job of providing the expensive individual attention that is required to give these kids half a chance and who pays for it rather than Academies good or bad.
Alternatively, we get parents who need it, educated before schools waste their time and money trying to educate their children.
As a society we bring children into this world, and than very often punish them for being themselves.
Your idea is about conditioning, carrot and stick and all that, and I can see where you're coming from, but it swerves the harder point about why we school children at all. If we all agree that schooling is to scare children 'straight' (and that is a dangerous idea in itself), then we will know where we stand, and will have to live with the consequences.
It has affected her whole life, she confided in me a couple of years ago that she avoids going anywhere in the vicinity of the place even now, the experience was that unhappy.
The lesson for others is to watch what schools do like a hawk. The school wasn't doing right by your daughter.
I'm not offering a solution here but am interested in what people think the solution is other than caning the disruptive ness out of the disruptive ones ( in my school days corporal punishment tended to control this problem but I don't defend that or call for its reinstatement).
One approach is to declare to all children 'you will jolly well comply', and somehow through threat, fear and punishment you break them down until they comply.
The questions arising from that is 'what if they don't? what if they can't? what are they being forced to comply with anyway? what if their parents encourage non compliance? how does it all feed into he law? what is the actual role of a teacher in all this?
Throughout time there have been kids reluctant to participate in schooling. Shakespeare referenced it, Mark Twain observed that Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn would rather not be in school, but fishing. Documentaries on TV about schools seem to focus 95% on the reluctant kids even if that only represents 5% of the schools work (makes more exciting TV than the steady plod of teaching and learning).
Until we recognise that to be educated demands a kind of willing contract between teacher and learner, and that shaping that contract is resource consuming, then there will always be unwilling kids.
It may well start with what we as a society want from education which I don't think we know ourselves, beyond wanting 'everything'.