People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
I dunno Jimmy I think most people could highlight a body trait that looks uncomfortable and not within character of the situation you find, now whether that person is lying or just finding comfort within a movement or gesture is another thing, but if I was asked to let's say take notes and mark where I thought that a certain movement or facial expression showed signs of strain, lying, pain,thought I'd say I could get a few right
The Scottish legal system provides three possible verdicts in a capital case : Guilty, Not Guilty and " Guilty not proven " . It would have been interesting to see which one might have been the jury's finding had she been tried there.
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
Not too sure that I would behave normally either if I had been accused of murder!!
Too many 'Magnum, Columbo and Miss Marple' fans on here!
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
Not too sure that I would behave normally either if I had been accused of murder!!
Too many 'Magnum, Columbo and Miss Marple' fans on here!
Will be interested to see all the details of the case and see how they came about making the decision. I'm wondering whether it was a goofed investigation and poorly handled evidence rather than the fact she actually didn't do it.
People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
I ran a shop up Grove Park if thass any good to ya?
People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
Seriously though, if what you're saying in correct about peoples behaviour isn't generic when put under certain stresses and strains like lying (and I'm not saying it isn't), how do body language experts earn a living? Just asking like
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
Not too sure that I would behave normally either if I had been accused of murder!!
Too many 'Magnum, Columbo and Miss Marple' fans on here!
I tend to think of meself as a Sherlock Holmes (as played by the late Jeremy Brett and not Benedict Comeonmeback) meets Charlie Chan, with a bit of Cheif Inspector Fred Abberline as played by Michael Caine thrown in for good measure
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
Not too sure that I would behave normally either if I had been accused of murder!!
Too many 'Magnum, Columbo and Miss Marple' fans on here!
I tend to think of meself as a Sherlock Holmes (as played by the late Jeremy Brett and not Benedict Comeonmeback) meets Charlie Chan, with a bit of Cheif Inspector Fred Abberline as played by Michael Caine thrown in for good measure
No mate, deffo MC. I think that was arguably his best ever performance of all time and what a blinding dramatisation of the whole story an all! Might look on Youtube and give it a watch if it there
99.9% of this thread is based on rumour, conjecture and most importantly of all, prejudice. It reminds of the 'normal people talking' scenes in Cry in the Dark. "She's a religious nut, I bet she ate her own baby!"
*If Ross1 personally saw her doing handstands, or NLA has a degree in body language, I take it back.
It was quoted by the police at the time as "very odd behaviour", but then is as reported by newspapers, so believe what you will
Because the Italian police are a reputable law enforcement organisation !
Doing cartwheels after being nicked for murder is odd, lots of her behavior is odd, but none of that is evidence - if there was actual evidence (other than "I think she's a bit weird") then she would never have got through the trial, conviction, acquittal and subsequent acquittal (whatever the Italian terms for those phases is) - she has been through what is probably a more stringent investigation than most - if the Italian authorities have still been unable to adduce enough evidence to convict her then she's probably innocent, despite what the experts on a Charlton Athletic football forum say.
People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
Seriously though, if what you're saying in correct about peoples behaviour isn't generic when put under certain stresses and strains like lying (and I'm not saying it isn't), how do body language experts earn a living? Just asking like
Well they don't! There's very few if any people making a living out of that, although I'd assume psychologists spent a few weeks on body language for their degrees.
There are plenty of universal traits - if you see someone chatting in a bar standing with legs crossed it means they don't intend to leave the conversation - but spotting a liar, an expert would often need to know what that person does when telling the truth to be certain. That's how lie detectors work too. You need a baseline which is why subjects get asked obvious questions.
People don't look up and to the right when lying. That's not standard but cited as proof of 'accessing the imagination centre of the brain' which is rubbish. But if you personally look down and left when telling the truth, then up and right would be a big clue if you did it on a tough question. But even still, it's a clue. Not a certainty. Silly as it sounds, I think I read this in Darren Brown's book.
If knox has had the training NLA thinks she has, she probably won't be portraying those clues anyway!
People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
Seriously though, if what you're saying in correct about peoples behaviour isn't generic when put under certain stresses and strains like lying (and I'm not saying it isn't), how do body language experts earn a living? Just asking like
Well they don't! There's very few if any people making a living out of that, although I'd assume psychologists spent a few weeks on body language for their degrees.
There are plenty of universal traits - if you see someone chatting in a bar standing with legs crossed it means they don't intend to leave the conversation - but spotting a liar, an expert would often need to know what that person does when telling the truth to be certain. That's how lie detectors work too. You need a baseline which is why subjects get asked obvious questions.
People don't look up and to the right when lying. That's not standard but cited as proof of 'accessing the imagination centre of the brain' which is rubbish. But if you personally look down and left when telling the truth, then up and right would be a big clue if you did it on a tough question. But even still, it's a clue. Not a certainty. Silly as it sounds, I think I read this in Darren Brown's book.
If knox has had the training NLA thinks she has, she probably won't be portraying those clues anyway!
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
People don't display the same traits when lying. They betray their own base line, not a generic one. I don't believe you or NLA are capable of watching a video of a stranger and decreeing guilt or innocence based on your life experience, unless perhaps you've worked in a similar field, say, as a criminal defence lawyer or judge etc. Even still, it's a stretch to claim to know what happened that night based on a flick of the hair.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
Mind you, that puppet off the Dolmio advert looks a bit shifty
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
Mind you, that puppet off the Dolmio advert looks a bit shifty
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
When Parmalat buy their milk from farmers do you not think some may be skimmed off by the Costra? Many of the above are involved in Italian football, the fairest in the world with not a hint of match fixing! But my comment was about the Italian legal system which has a history of incompetence and corruption towards their Sicilian friends, so it is easy to imagine not getting a fair trial there.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
Mind you, that puppet off the Dolmio advert looks a bit shifty
Australian company, so no surprises there.
Set up by known cosa nostra associates in the "LIttle Italy" area of Brisbane. That puppet is thouught to be behind some of the biggest hits in Mafia history.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
When Parmalat buy their milk from farmers do you not think some may be skimmed off by the Costra? Many of the above are involved in Italian football, the fairest in the world with not a hint of match fixing! But my comment was about the Italian legal system which has a history of incompetence and corruption towards their Sicilian friends, so it is easy to imagine not getting a fair trial there.
You'd do well to not opine on subjects you know next to nothing about, other than what you read in the British media or glamourised by the film industry. The 'mafia' (and mafia-like organisations) used to control vast amounts of Sicily, Calabria and Napoli's politicians via influence, but those days ended in the eighties. There's still a large amount of influence exerted over Sicilian politicians - but that's a reflection of the corruption that is endemic in Sicilian life, rather than any long reach the mafia might have. The mafia has never had any influence in Italy anywhere north of Naples - other than at a petty crime level. To suggest that they somehow influence the highest courts in the land is utterly ridiculous.
Dozens, if not hundreds of judges, lawmakers and public officials in Sicily and - to a lesser degree - Southern Italy gave their lives in the fight against corruption (Google Falcone and Borsellino - Palermo airport was renamed in their honour). Public outrage at their murders led to a massive reduction in 'organised' crime (which has never been as 'organised' as the myths perpetuated by films like Goodfellas and The Godfather would have you believe) in Sicily.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
When Parmalat buy their milk from farmers do you not think some may be skimmed off by the Costra? Many of the above are involved in Italian football, the fairest in the world with not a hint of match fixing! But my comment was about the Italian legal system which has a history of incompetence and corruption towards their Sicilian friends, so it is easy to imagine not getting a fair trial there.
You'd do well to not opine on subjects you know next to nothing about, other than what you read in the British media or glamourised by the film industry. The 'mafia' (and mafia-like organisations) used to control vast amounts of Sicily, Calabria and Napoli's politicians via influence, but those days ended in the eighties. There's still a large amount of influence exerted over Sicilian politicians - but that's a reflection of the corruption that is endemic in Sicilian life, rather than any long reach the mafia might have. The mafia has never had any influence in Italy anywhere north of Naples - other than at a petty crime level. To suggest that they somehow influence the highest courts in the land is utterly ridiculous.
Dozens, if not hundreds of judges, lawmakers and public officials in Sicily and - to a lesser degree - Southern Italy gave their lives in the fight against corruption (Google Falcone and Borsellino - Palermo airport was renamed in their honour). Public outrage at their murders led to a massive reduction in 'organised' crime (which has never been as 'organised' as the myths perpetuated by films like Goodfellas and The Godfather would have you believe) in Sicily.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
When Parmalat buy their milk from farmers do you not think some may be skimmed off by the Costra? Many of the above are involved in Italian football, the fairest in the world with not a hint of match fixing! But my comment was about the Italian legal system which has a history of incompetence and corruption towards their Sicilian friends, so it is easy to imagine not getting a fair trial there.
When in a hole stop digging - things in Italy have moved on a bit since the 1970s.
Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia and their justice system has been both inept and corrupt for decades. Additionally I think most foreigners accused of crimes abroad face an uphill battle. (Apart from UK where we grant bail to serious offenders who flee home).
"Most of the Italian economy is run by the Mafia."
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
When Parmalat buy their milk from farmers do you not think some may be skimmed off by the Costra? Many of the above are involved in Italian football, the fairest in the world with not a hint of match fixing! But my comment was about the Italian legal system which has a history of incompetence and corruption towards their Sicilian friends, so it is easy to imagine not getting a fair trial there.
You'd do well to not opine on subjects you know next to nothing about, other than what you read in the British media or glamourised by the film industry. The 'mafia' (and mafia-like organisations) used to control vast amounts of Sicily, Calabria and Napoli's politicians via influence, but those days ended in the eighties. There's still a large amount of influence exerted over Sicilian politicians - but that's a reflection of the corruption that is endemic in Sicilian life, rather than any long reach the mafia might have. The mafia has never had any influence in Italy anywhere north of Naples - other than at a petty crime level. To suggest that they somehow influence the highest courts in the land is utterly ridiculous.
Dozens, if not hundreds of judges, lawmakers and public officials in Sicily and - to a lesser degree - Southern Italy gave their lives in the fight against corruption (Google Falcone and Borsellino - Palermo airport was renamed in their honour). Public outrage at their murders led to a massive reduction in 'organised' crime (which has never been as 'organised' as the myths perpetuated by films like Goodfellas and The Godfather would have you believe) in Sicily.
and if he doesn't keep his mouth shut???
Haha - yeah, I changed it because I thought I'd get those kind of remarks Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
It amazes me how anyone can form opinions of trial without sitting through and understanding the evidence. Also Italy is not some third world backward dirt poor country with a justice system to match, far from it.
Inspector Montelbano should have been on the case .. like the mounties 'he always gets his man' and infallibly comes to a just and equitable, if not always a strictly by the 'book legal' outcome
One thing that seems to get forgotten a lot is that she was sentenced to 3 years in prison for falsely accusing her boss as the killer and this was not overturned. She is in no way a totally innocent victim in all this. The innocent victim is Meredith.
Comments
Too many 'Magnum, Columbo and Miss Marple' fans on here!
What about Poirot?
He's Belgian you know...
Doing cartwheels after being nicked for murder is odd, lots of her behavior is odd, but none of that is evidence - if there was actual evidence (other than "I think she's a bit weird") then she would never have got through the trial, conviction, acquittal and subsequent acquittal (whatever the Italian terms for those phases is) - she has been through what is probably a more stringent investigation than most - if the Italian authorities have still been unable to adduce enough evidence to convict her then she's probably innocent, despite what the experts on a Charlton Athletic football forum say.
There are plenty of universal traits - if you see someone chatting in a bar standing with legs crossed it means they don't intend to leave the conversation - but spotting a liar, an expert would often need to know what that person does when telling the truth to be certain. That's how lie detectors work too. You need a baseline which is why subjects get asked obvious questions.
People don't look up and to the right when lying. That's not standard but cited as proof of 'accessing the imagination centre of the brain' which is rubbish. But if you personally look down and left when telling the truth, then up and right would be a big clue if you did it on a tough question. But even still, it's a clue. Not a certainty. Silly as it sounds, I think I read this in Darren Brown's book.
If knox has had the training NLA thinks she has, she probably won't be portraying those clues anyway!
Wow.
Parmalat. Pirelli. Fiat. Ferrari, Armani, Benetton, Bulgari, Diadora, Diesel, Dolce & Gabbana, Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini, Maserati, De Longhi, Olivetti, Barilla and hundreds of others global firms are run by the Mafia?
Righto.
Dozens, if not hundreds of judges, lawmakers and public officials in Sicily and - to a lesser degree - Southern Italy gave their lives in the fight against corruption (Google Falcone and Borsellino - Palermo airport was renamed in their honour). Public outrage at their murders led to a massive reduction in 'organised' crime (which has never been as 'organised' as the myths perpetuated by films like Goodfellas and The Godfather would have you believe) in Sicily.
Also Italy is not some third world backward dirt poor country with a justice system to match, far from it.