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General Election 2015 official thread
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No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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agreed, the only credibility labour have currently is in the NHS (did you know they founded it? Don't think you'll ever hear a labour supporter tell you that). They'll beat it like a child's new drum he got at christmas.Fiiish said:
No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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I think it's all parties now putting it on the agenda. Under normal circumstances the Tories keep schtum because they know that the NHS is very much Labours "manor". The shocking state that the NHS now finds itself after the coalition governments term has forced Cameron to utter the N word and make promises that he cannot keep. He knows that he cannot remain quiet and look like Nero fiddling whilst every marker of NHS care burns.Fiiish said:
No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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if cameron didn't talk about the nhs miliband would claim he's trying to privatise it. Damned if you do...ShootersHillGuru said:
I think it's all parties now putting it on the agenda. Under normal circumstances the Tories keep schtum because they know that the NHS is very much Labours "manor". The shocking state that the NHS now finds itself after the coalition governments term has forced Cameron to utter the N word and make promises that he cannot keep. He knows that he cannot remain quiet and look like Nero fiddling whilst every marker of NHS care burns.Fiiish said:
No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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They are trying to privatise it !2
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Based on the conversations I have been involved in, the main issue appears to be immigration and, to a certain extent, the EU.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
Not my main considerations, but definitely are to a number of people of differing ages.0 -
Except the NHS isn't burning. It is still performing well despite the fact-free whinging from left-wing activists. Your lies about full NHS privatisation are exactly that - lies. Labour outsourced over twice as much of the NHS to the private sector than the Coalition has.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think it's all parties now putting it on the agenda. Under normal circumstances the Tories keep schtum because they know that the NHS is very much Labours "manor". The shocking state that the NHS now finds itself after the coalition governments term has forced Cameron to utter the N word and make promises that he cannot keep. He knows that he cannot remain quiet and look like Nero fiddling whilst every marker of NHS care burns.Fiiish said:
No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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My lies !!!! Watch your step old son. Outsourcing is increasing year on year. Some sectors of "healthcare" are being outsourced faster than others. Social care and mental health have seen the worst of it.
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 2014
BUT ...
•NHS Support Federation: Value of advertised contracts April 2013 – April 2014 is £13.5bn, 3 times greater than previous year
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@fiiish whilst I don't generally view all things political the same as him, SHG has worked in the NHS for a considerable amount of time.and not pushing pens either I'd take on board his thoughts as being more informed than me and you.0
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So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 20140 -
They may well have done ( I genuinely don't know), but that doesn't make claims that the Tories would like to privatise it lies, that just means that the NHS isn't as safe as it should be from either of them.Fiiish said:
Except the NHS isn't burning. It is still performing well despite the fact-free whinging from left-wing activists. Your lies about full NHS privatisation are exactly that - lies. Labour outsourced over twice as much of the NHS to the private sector than the Coalition has.ShootersHillGuru said:
I think it's all parties now putting it on the agenda. Under normal circumstances the Tories keep schtum because they know that the NHS is very much Labours "manor". The shocking state that the NHS now finds itself after the coalition governments term has forced Cameron to utter the N word and make promises that he cannot keep. He knows that he cannot remain quiet and look like Nero fiddling whilst every marker of NHS care burns.Fiiish said:
No, it won't, at best it will be one of the main issues but not the defining issue for the election. Labour like to keep it on the agenda because it is the only issue where they perceived to be able to compete with other parties. We could turn the figures you quoted around and say that despite all the extra spending on the health service, the NHS wasn't performing nearly well enough to justify that spending compared to how it is performing now. You also have to look at how they're managing badly they're managing the NHS in Wales despite spending more money per patient. If the NHS is going to be safe in the hands of Labour you can guarantee your savings or money won't be.ShootersHillGuru said:The big issue will still be the NHS.
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I'll consider relevant points on that merit but regurgitating claims that the Tories intend to fully privatise the NHS have zero merit and I will point out any claims as what they are - lies. Otherwise we might as well claim any party is going to do anything if it suits our agenda.AFKABartram said:@fiiish whilst I don't generally view all things political the same as him, SHG has worked in the NHS for a considerable amount of time.and not pushing pens either I'd take on board his thoughts as being more informed than me and you.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.1 -
You've called me a liar. I'm calling you a prick. Shall we call it quits ?Fiiish said:
So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 2014
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I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?0 -
I guess the CCTV would be as a deterrent for illegal/morally wrong practices that may occur!?Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?0 -
I'm not calling you a liar but you have believe a claim that is based on a lie and are repeating it here. I am telling you now it is a lie, much like the claim that Labour caused the global financial crash is a lie. You can call me a prick but I don't think that helps you in any way. I don't think I'm necessarily a prick for pointing out something you've posted is untrue.ShootersHillGuru said:
You've called me a liar. I'm calling you a prick. Shall we call it quits ?Fiiish said:
So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 20144 -
There's always clips on youtube of animals in slaughterhouses getting kicked in the head or writhering in pain from botched executions. Whether or not they'd succeed in implementing that is arguable but in principle it's a good idea.
I think a party should have a policy of outlawing halal meat. I know no party would ever do it as it's political suicide but it's a serious issue that I feel strongly about. To kill an animal in the most horrific way possible because a sky fairy says so is barking mad and totally, totally unacceptable.1 -
I meant more why transporting live animals for slaughter matters. Would that mean animals would need to be slaughtered in the place in the same place they lived?The Organiser said:
I guess the CCTV would be as a deterrent for illegal/morally wrong practices that may occur!?Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?0 - Sponsored links:
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Unfortunate choice of venue for a party with zero hope of winning!
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The welfare of an animal that is going to be slaughtered is clearly far more important to UKIP than the overseas aid budget. Says it all for me.Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?0 -
I think you wrote "your lies" please explain how I am not supposed to think you are calling me a liar.Fiiish said:
I'm not calling you a liar but you have believe a claim that is based on a lie and are repeating it here. I am telling you now it is a lie, much like the claim that Labour caused the global financial crash is a lie. You can call me a prick but I don't think that helps you in any way.ShootersHillGuru said:
You've called me a liar. I'm calling you a prick. Shall we call it quits ?Fiiish said:
So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 2014
As for the NHS performing well. I'm not at all sure what measure you are using. Certainly not the same one that noted that A&E in NHS England has not hit its targets for what is it now 27 consecutive weeks.
The NHS is at the sharp end where I work very much in crisis. Just like you I don't know how or what would make it better but all I can say is that what I'm seeing right now isn't making anything better.
The Any Qualified Provider legislation brought in under Cameron is very much geared to a privatisation programme. Perhaps I'm anti it because I believe that profit should be nowhere near our nations healthcare.
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Do you think we should be giving aid to a country with a space program?bobmunro said:
The welfare of an animal that is going to be slaughtered is clearly far more important to UKIP than the overseas aid budget. Says it all for me.Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?
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Not if they put monkeys in space.cafcnick1992 said:
Do you think we should be giving aid to a country with a space program?bobmunro said:
The welfare of an animal that is going to be slaughtered is clearly far more important to UKIP than the overseas aid budget. Says it all for me.Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?
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I think I agree with that (fence-sitting I know, but bear with me) but ...playing devils advocate ...if they are accountable to shareholders, and only receive recompense if they are successful in their healthcare ...which would then result in a financial return ...would that necessarily be wrong?ShootersHillGuru said:
Perhaps I'm anti it because I believe that profit should be nowhere near our nations healthcare.Fiiish said:
I'm not calling you a liar but you have believe a claim that is based on a lie and are repeating it here. I am telling you now it is a lie, much like the claim that Labour caused the global financial crash is a lie. You can call me a prick but I don't think that helps you in any way.ShootersHillGuru said:
You've called me a liar. I'm calling you a prick. Shall we call it quits ?Fiiish said:
So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 20140 -
The welfare of an animal that is going to be slaughtered is clearly far more important to UKIP than the overseas aid budget. Says it all for me.bobmunro said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.Fiiish said:
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?
They state they will REDUCE the foreign aid budget, but to a level that is still higher than Spain and Italy combined. Don't see the problem myself - I would have reduced it further.0 -
Quoting balls up - quote was fish, next bit was bobmunro and last paragraph only was mine.1
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Where it is spent is a different question and one which I would question. But abolishing the commitment to spend 0.7% of GDP on overseas aid as a stated aim whilst at the same time maintaining the commitment to the US (oops sorry NATO) to spend at least 2% (and perhaps substantially more) on defence just doesn't sit well with me. My view, my opinion - I don't expect everyone to agree with me!cafcnick1992 said:
Do you think we should be giving aid to a country with a space program?bobmunro said:
The welfare of an animal that is going to be slaughtered is clearly far more important to UKIP than the overseas aid budget. Says it all for me.Fiiish said:
I don't get the animal slaughter thing. Either why is it a headline pledge (since I've never heard Farage or any other UKIP politician talk about it) or what they actually mean by it.The Organiser said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32318683
So now the UKIP manifesto is out what do people think? I'm sure everyone has been itching for it to come out in the anticipation of slating it and laughing at it.
I personally agree with a large percentage of it and think joe blogs will too.
And what of their claim that their figures are externally verified? An unusual claim or the norm? And will it be found to be true?
Nothing in the manifesto in my opinion could be classed as racist either.
"Ending the transport of live animals for slaughter and CCTV on slaughterhouses"
Anyone care to explain what this means/why it matters?0 -
Like national rail companies?stonemuse said:
I think I agree with that (fence-sitting I know, but bear with me) but ...playing devils advocate ...if they are accountable to shareholders, and only receive recompense if they are successful in their healthcare ...which would then result in a financial return ...would that necessarily be wrong?ShootersHillGuru said:
Perhaps I'm anti it because I believe that profit should be nowhere near our nations healthcare.Fiiish said:
I'm not calling you a liar but you have believe a claim that is based on a lie and are repeating it here. I am telling you now it is a lie, much like the claim that Labour caused the global financial crash is a lie. You can call me a prick but I don't think that helps you in any way.ShootersHillGuru said:
You've called me a liar. I'm calling you a prick. Shall we call it quits ?Fiiish said:
So on average 0.44% of services each year. A lot of Labour campaigners claimed in 2010 that by 2015 the NHS would no longer be free at the point of use. Yet at the rate you have quoted it will take until 2226 for the NHS to be fully privatised. If your lie that David Cameron is trying to privatise the NHS had any basis, do you also have the knowledge of how he intends to keep himself alive for more than 200 years in order to finish the job as clearly you're hiding some kind of medical or scientific miracle of longevity.ShootersHillGuru said:
Lang Buisson: Spending on outsourced services increased from 4.8 per cent in 2009 to 7 per cent in 20141
