The biggest risk - by a long way - to the UK's economy is to fall into the trap of electing a leadership that either wants or is forced to run a referendum on EU membership. It would take years to put in place; and, in that time, what forward-thinking business is ever going to invest in plant, machinery, HQ buildings, staff or other capital investment in the UK? Why would a foreign business ever set up in the UK while there is a massive doubt as to whether the UK remains part of the European Union?
This multi-year lack of clarity will be crippling to the economy. And, if you think that doesn't impact you, think again! Everyone who earns money in the UK, everyone who borrows money in the UK and everyone who has a pension fund or other savings is massively impacted by the long-term "health" of the stock market. And stock markets thrive on one thing more than any other: certainty. If we elect a government hell-bent on an EU in/out referendum, we'll be facing years and years of additional austerity, thanks to the cataclysmic effect on shares prices of being plunged into a long-term uncertainty.
I am unashamedly pro-Europe. I know we would be better off in the short- medium- and long-term if we're in the European Union. But I can see that even if we followed Farage's plan and pulled out immediately, we would be better-placed than if we spent several years squabbling about whether we want to be in or out. And that's without factoring-in what impact a UK vote to leave would have on the nations (Scotland) or regions (the South West of England) that would vote to stay in.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The rich getting richer does not mean that the poor get poorer (in fact the reverse is usually true). Your warped logic here is like saying if it's raining in Scotland it must be sunny in England.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
Any source for this? (The poor getting poorer)
He won't have a source because like most of the things posted in this thread over the last few weeks attempting to smear the Tories, it isn't actually true.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The rich getting richer does not mean that the poor get poorer (in fact the reverse is usually true). Your warped logic here is like saying if it's raining in Scotland it must be sunny in England.
Like a lot of hard leftists they don't seem to get the concept of wealth and that it's generated.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
People, so far this has been a good natured and immensely interesting political debate. I get you are Tories, and one or three of you just want to chip away. I'm traditionally a Labour supporter. Lets leave the leftist etc insults in the play ground, before it gets out of hand. Cheers
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The rich getting richer does not mean that the poor get poorer (in fact the reverse is usually true). Your warped logic here is like saying if it's raining in Scotland it must be sunny in England.
Like a lot of hard leftists they don't seem to get the concept of wealth and that it's generated.
It's incredible how confidently people feel they can talk on subjects they clearly have no education in if they're politically motivated. I was trying to explain this to an engineer recently who had no idea how the national debt worked and why different people could say such differing things on what should be a matter of fact. I compared it to if, say, the Telegraph published a working model of a jet engine that was largely accurate and a Daily Mirror piece published a similar image except that the engine was powered by weasels that just ran really fast inside the engine, then both sets of readers angrily disputed the other newspaper's interpretation of how a jet engine works. He looked grateful that politicians by and large don't care about physics or engineering.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
People, so far this has been a good natured and immensely interesting political debate. I get you are Tories, and one or three of you just want to chip away. I'm traditionally a Labour supporter. Lets leave the leftist etc insults in the play ground, before it gets out of hand. Cheers
It's been good natured because people are using their own personal experiences and facts backed up with sources rather than sweeping biased statements without facts like you've done above.
All because I disagree with you doesn't make me a Tory voter.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
People, so far this has been a good natured and immensely interesting political debate. I get you are Tories, and one or three of you just want to chip away. I'm traditionally a Labour supporter. Lets leave the leftist etc insults in the play ground, before it gets out of hand. Cheers
It's been good natured because people are using their own personal experiences and facts backed up with sources rather than sweeping biased statements without facts like you've done above.
All because I disagree with you doesn't make me a Tory voter.
How big a difference would the respective parties definition be?
I'd say someone who never had to look at the price before buying and someone who would never put clothes in for repair or sew buttons on, but simply but new ones. Someone who never has to use their kitchen, someone that can go on holiday wherever they want, someone who can spend thousands on something as simple as a watch... I know someone like this, I think most of us do...the b@&£(@d!
I am not sure a definition of 'poor' is replacing a button or 'rich' never having to use your kitchen
Interesting debate between @Fiiish and @Chizz on the selfish/altruistic construct versus small state/big state. I think, to a degree, they are a different pair of labels of the same construct.
The state clearly has a part to play in the provision of services such as health, education and welfare - the latter being to those in genuine need but let's not get into the detail. I agree that it should never be better financially for someone to live on welfare rather than work, assuming they are fit to work and work is available. The NHS is an absolute bargain and must remain in public ownership and fully funded out of general taxation - we spend about 9% of GDP on healthcare - the US spend 17% of GDP on healthcare and I know where I would rather be if I needed critical healthcare. The reason the US is so high is because of the profit built in by the healthcare providers. I agree that the state should not get involved in things that don@t need involvement.
When I say general taxation I mean all taxation - particularly corporation tax. Under this coalition government CT has come down from 28% to 21%. There is an argument that low CT rates encourage inward investment - not sure that argument holds up when the US have rates of 40% and Germany 30%. All it encourages is profiteering.
If Labour win the election I personally will be worse off by thousands of pounds a year due to tax rises. Will that stop me voting Labour? No. Don't call me an altruist - call me a socialist!
I was only half awake this morning, but I am pretty sure I heard Ed Milliband say to Bill on breakfast TV he will have to pay more tax due to his proposed policy on mansion tax (?). So he is putting his money where his mouth is...ought I to say 'literally'?
I was only half awake this morning, but I am pretty sure I heard Ed Milliband say to Bill on breakfast TV he will have to pay more tax due to his proposed policy on mansion tax (?). So he is putting his money where his mouth is...ought I to say 'literally'?
That's like saying Cameron had to pay more because he put up VAT, it doesn't make either tax hike right or wrong.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
Any source for this? (The poor getting poorer)
He won't have a source because like most of the things posted in this thread over the last few weeks attempting to smear the Tories, it isn't actually true.
Bit like most of the things posted by you attempting to smear The Labour Party.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The FACT is the richer are getting much much richer and the poorer are getting richer but at a very slow rate - The divide is widening.
The Tories have taken some of the poor out the tax loop due to increasing the tax threshold. However, VAT was increased to 20% in 2010 !! VAT is a tax on all Rich and Poor but the poor are hit the most due to their low income.
The Rich (like all of us) have also seen their threshhold increase - again making them richer.
Plus the Rich received a tax cut under the Tory government.
Just a few reasons, why the Tories are widening the divide. You can agree or disagree with this but the fact remains the Tories are contributing to the trend.
Quite funny from the Tory MP - It is now Labours GREAT recession !!! Funny, I am certain it was a Global recession !!
I am not totally against the Tories as I agree with some of their policies - but when they spill this crap to try and manipulate voters with fear tactics. It turns me against them. I am not an idiot, I know what happened, I was there !!
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
Any source for this? (The poor getting poorer)
He won't have a source because like most of the things posted in this thread over the last few weeks attempting to smear the Tories, it isn't actually true.
Bit like most of the things posted by you attempting to smear The Labour Party.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The FACT is the richer are getting much much richer and the poorer are getting richer but at a very slow rate - The divide is widening.
The Tories have taken some of the poor out the tax loop due to increasing the tax threshold. However, VAT was increased to 20% in 2010 !! VAT is a tax on all Rich and Poor but the poor are hit the most due to their low income.
The Rich (like all of us) have also seen their threshhold increase - again making them richer.
Plus the Rich received a tax cut under the Tory government.
Just a couple of reasons why the Tories are widening the divide. You can agree or disagree with this but the fact remains the Tories are contributing to the trend.
In terms of this divide. Two things can happen. You can vote in a government who will help narrow it, and help the lower earners in society.
Or you can also take on some responsibility to boost your own career and look at ways to increase your own earnings. Its not always someone else's fault.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The FACT is the richer are getting much much richer and the poorer are getting richer but at a very slow rate - The divide is widening.
The Tories have taken some of the poor out the tax loop due to increasing the tax threshold. However, VAT was increased to 20% in 2010 !! VAT is a tax on all Rich and Poor but the poor are hit the most due to their low income.
The Rich (like all of us) have also seen their threshhold increase - again making them richer.
Plus the Rich received a tax cut under the Tory government.
Just a couple of reasons why the Tories are widening the divide. You can agree or disagree with this but the fact remains the Tories are contributing to the trend.
In terms of this divide. Two things can happen. You can vote in a government who will help narrow it, and help the lower earners in society.
Or you can also take on some responsibility to boost your own career and look at ways to increase your own earnings. Its not always someone else's fault.
Just saying.
Completely agree we ALL need to take responsibility. Its not a blame game. Its just different ways of doing things. It all depends on your viewpoint. I'm not sure anyone (Tory, Socialist or whatever) want people in the UK or elsewhere to live in poverty.
Completely agree we ALL need to take responsibility. Its not a blame game. Its just different ways of doing things. It all depends on your viewpoint. I'm not sure anyone (Tory, Socialist or whatever) want people in the UK or elsewhere to live in poverty.
Nobody would want people to live in poverty - I agree. But the question surely is more about who wants to do more about changing the fact that some do live in poverty.
Completely agree we ALL need to take responsibility. Its not a blame game. Its just different ways of doing things. It all depends on your viewpoint. I'm not sure anyone (Tory, Socialist or whatever) want people in the UK or elsewhere to live in poverty.
Nobody would want people to live in poverty - I agree. But the question surely is more about who wants to do more about changing the fact that some do live in poverty.
Agreed. At the moment, my viewpoint is that it is only Labour who are making the right sounds about tackling poverty and making the country a fairer place to live.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
But they don't and they aren't. People getting richer does not automatically mean that they do so at someone else's expense. That is the point. In the late 1960s I was living in my parents newish 3-bedroom house. We were considered to be reasonably well off. We had no central heating, a black and white TV, no phone, no freezer, in fact pretty much no any thing apart from a basic car. To say the poor are getting poorer is just not true. If you mean the poor have comparatively less than the rich, fair enough but to say they are poorer is just plain wrong.
Quite funny from the Tory MP - It is now Labours GREAT recession !!! Funny, I am certain it was a Global recession !!
I am not totally against the Tories as I agree with some of their policies - but when they spill this crap to try and manipulate voters with fear tactics. It turns me against them. I am not an idiot, I know what happened, I was there !!
I think this is an important point. And the electorate are a lot more intelligent than they are being given credit for. The fact of the matter is, a lot of the conservative's policies are not a million miles away from Labour's. It is about pace of cuts rather than disagreement that cuts are needed and fair taxation. Labour wont make the rich poor, just ensure that those with the broadest shoulders take their share of the load.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
But they don't and they aren't. People getting richer does not automatically mean that they do so at someone else's expense. That is the point. In the late 1960s I was living in my parents newish 3-bedroom house. We were considered to be reasonably well off. We had no central heating, a black and white TV, no phone, no freezer, in fact pretty much no any thing apart from a basic car. To say the poor are getting poorer is just not true. If you mean the poor have comparatively less than the rich, fair enough but to say they are poorer is just plain wrong.
Its quite easy, the rich get richer under a Tory government and the poor get poorer. Always been the case and always will be. The question is, do you consider yourselves rich or poor, relative to someone who owns a 500k home and earns 60k + per year?
Except it isn't is it? You don't actually have to look up the facts but just think about all our lifestyles now and compare that to what they were like in, say, the mid 1960s. Do you really think that we've all only got to be more well off in the years that the Labour Party were in power because that's very silly indeed. BTW the "poverty line" in the UK is defined as someone getting less than 60%of the median household income. So, as the country gets generally more well off, the poverty line goes up too. That's not necessarily a true measure of whether someone is actually poor or not. Someone trying to bring up a family would be, but a young single person living at home with their parents could actually think they were quite well off. The definition is open to manipulation.
Er.... it is true, the rich get richer under a Tory government.
I was actually referring to the "poor get poorer" bit. But since you bring it up, as has been referred to in this thread previously, "the rich" whoever they may be are now paying more tax than they did under the last administration. In any event what is wrong with getting richer?
Because the poor get poorer, ergo the majority of the country suffers.........
The FACT is the richer are getting much much richer and the poorer are getting richer but at a very slow rate - The divide is widening.
The Tories have taken some of the poor out the tax loop due to increasing the tax threshold. However, VAT was increased to 20% in 2010 !! VAT is a tax on all Rich and Poor but the poor are hit the most due to their low income.
The Rich (like all of us) have also seen their threshhold increase - again making them richer.
Plus the Rich received a tax cut under the Tory government.
Just a couple of reasons why the Tories are widening the divide. You can agree or disagree with this but the fact remains the Tories are contributing to the trend.
In terms of this divide. Two things can happen. You can vote in a government who will help narrow it, and help the lower earners in society.
Or you can also take on some responsibility to boost your own career and look at ways to increase your own earnings. Its not always someone else's fault.
Just saying.
I don't think ANY Govt. is capable of changing this situation (without destroying the economy).
Here's why: person A has £100. Person B has £10,000,000. They both benefit from improved economic activity and their net worth increases by 10%. So A has £110 and B has £11mn. The difference between the two has just widened by £999,990. Short of a massive and hugely destructive wealth redistribution programme which would just end up making everyone poorer, there's bugger all you can do about that.
But, it is also wrong to suggest (as Labour do, and as some people like to believe), that the coalition Govt. has reduced rates for the wealthy. Take for example those earning between £100,000 and £120,000. For 2014-15 the normal personal allowance of £10,000 was gradually reduced to nil where a person’s income exceeded £100,000. The reduction is £1 for every £2 that income exceeds the threshold. Therefore, a person with income of £120,000 or more is not entitled to any personal allowance (£20,000 (£120,000 – £100,000)/2 = £10,000). The effect of the reduction is that where a person’s income is between £100,000 and £120,000 their effective marginal rate of income tax is 60% (the higher rate of 40% plus a further 20% due to the withdrawal of the personal allowance). Most people will also be paying national insurance contributions at the rate of 2%.
How much more than 62% tax do people want the wealthier to pay, just out of interest?
I think an amount that allows them to stay wealthy, but takes into account their ability to absorb, given that non wealthy people pay high rates of tax also, relative to their income and situation. A lot of very wealthy people also have good accountants, which reduces their tax burden.
Quite funny from the Tory MP - It is now Labours GREAT recession !!! Funny, I am certain it was a Global recession !!
I am not totally against the Tories as I agree with some of their policies - but when they spill this crap to try and manipulate voters with fear tactics. It turns me against them. I am not an idiot, I know what happened, I was there !!
Labour wont make the rich poor, just ensure that those with the broadest shoulders take their share of the load.
As CAFC fan says, we have people with the broadest shoulders so to speak paying 62% of their earnings back into the proverbial pot.
How much more do you want them to give? They are already paying more than their fair share - personally I feel you are already heading towards a situation where people are punished for being successful.
Comments
This multi-year lack of clarity will be crippling to the economy. And, if you think that doesn't impact you, think again! Everyone who earns money in the UK, everyone who borrows money in the UK and everyone who has a pension fund or other savings is massively impacted by the long-term "health" of the stock market. And stock markets thrive on one thing more than any other: certainty. If we elect a government hell-bent on an EU in/out referendum, we'll be facing years and years of additional austerity, thanks to the cataclysmic effect on shares prices of being plunged into a long-term uncertainty.
I am unashamedly pro-Europe. I know we would be better off in the short- medium- and long-term if we're in the European Union. But I can see that even if we followed Farage's plan and pulled out immediately, we would be better-placed than if we spent several years squabbling about whether we want to be in or out. And that's without factoring-in what impact a UK vote to leave would have on the nations (Scotland) or regions (the South West of England) that would vote to stay in.
I get you are Tories, and one or three of you just want to chip away.
I'm traditionally a Labour supporter.
Lets leave the leftist etc insults in the play ground, before it gets out of hand.
Cheers
All because I disagree with you doesn't make me a Tory voter.
Rich - those b@$+&£@$ who have a nicer phone than me
The state clearly has a part to play in the provision of services such as health, education and welfare - the latter being to those in genuine need but let's not get into the detail. I agree that it should never be better financially for someone to live on welfare rather than work, assuming they are fit to work and work is available. The NHS is an absolute bargain and must remain in public ownership and fully funded out of general taxation - we spend about 9% of GDP on healthcare - the US spend 17% of GDP on healthcare and I know where I would rather be if I needed critical healthcare. The reason the US is so high is because of the profit built in by the healthcare providers. I agree that the state should not get involved in things that don@t need involvement.
When I say general taxation I mean all taxation - particularly corporation tax. Under this coalition government CT has come down from 28% to 21%. There is an argument that low CT rates encourage inward investment - not sure that argument holds up when the US have rates of 40% and Germany 30%. All it encourages is profiteering.
If Labour win the election I personally will be worse off by thousands of pounds a year due to tax rises. Will that stop me voting Labour? No. Don't call me an altruist - call me a socialist!
The FACT is the richer are getting much much richer and the poorer are getting richer but at a very slow rate - The divide is widening.
The Tories have taken some of the poor out the tax loop due to increasing the tax threshold. However, VAT was increased to 20% in 2010 !! VAT is a tax on all Rich and Poor but the poor are hit the most due to their low income.
The Rich (like all of us) have also seen their threshhold increase - again making them richer.
Plus the Rich received a tax cut under the Tory government.
Just a few reasons, why the Tories are widening the divide. You can agree or disagree with this but the fact remains the Tories are contributing to the trend.
Quite funny from the Tory MP - It is now Labours GREAT recession !!! Funny, I am certain it was a Global recession !!
I am not totally against the Tories as I agree with some of their policies - but when they spill this crap to try and manipulate voters with fear tactics. It turns me against them. I am not an idiot, I know what happened, I was there !!
Or you can also take on some responsibility to boost your own career and look at ways to increase your own earnings. Its not always someone else's fault.
Just saying.
Here's why: person A has £100. Person B has £10,000,000.
They both benefit from improved economic activity and their net worth increases by 10%. So A has £110 and B has £11mn. The difference between the two has just widened by £999,990. Short of a massive and hugely destructive wealth redistribution programme which would just end up making everyone poorer, there's bugger all you can do about that.
But, it is also wrong to suggest (as Labour do, and as some people like to believe), that the coalition Govt. has reduced rates for the wealthy. Take for example those earning between £100,000 and £120,000. For 2014-15 the normal personal allowance of £10,000 was gradually reduced to nil where a person’s income exceeded £100,000. The reduction is £1 for every £2 that income exceeds the threshold. Therefore, a person with income of £120,000 or more is not entitled to any personal allowance (£20,000 (£120,000 – £100,000)/2 = £10,000). The effect of the reduction is that where a person’s income is between £100,000 and £120,000 their effective marginal rate of income tax is 60% (the higher rate of 40% plus a further 20% due to the withdrawal of the personal allowance). Most people will also be paying national insurance contributions at the rate of 2%.
How much more than 62% tax do people want the wealthier to pay, just out of interest?
(apart from this comment before the self-righteous pedants pull me up on my post)
How much more do you want them to give? They are already paying more than their fair share - personally I feel you are already heading towards a situation where people are punished for being successful.