I will go to the Oval for Surrey v Kent or Surrey v Essex on a Friday evening. Loads of away fans, proper atmosphere, traditional rivalries. Not interested in South London v Leeds.
If the cricket powers pursue this new tournament, in a chase for money, they will come unstuck.
I went to see Surrey play Middlesex with a load of work colleagues. I support Essex. I mean, it was fun and the cricket was good, but I wasn't getting excited. Most there probably didn't care that much about the cricket. This isn't right
"I'm only here for the beer" sums up Friday evening matches...
T20 tournament 'future-proofs' county game - ECB chief tells BBC's Dan Roan English cricket's new eight-team, city-based Twenty20 tournament moved a step closer on Monday as further details were revealed.
The newly created tournament is proposed to begin in 2020.
Tom Harrison, chief executive of the England and Wales Cricket Board, said it can rival the Indian Premier League and is "not a gamble" for the counties.
"What we are doing here is future-proofing county cricket," Harrison told BBC Sport.
"I don't think it's so much a gamble, I think it's about looking into the future and saying what do we want our business and our game to look like."
A referendum is expected to be dispatched on Tuesday inviting stakeholders to sanction a tournament including eight teams, rather than the 18 first-class counties.
What is changing?
The ECB presented a detailed overview of its proposals for a new Twenty20 competition to its 41 members on Monday, which included:
Eight new teams playing 36 games over a 38-day summer window, with four home games per team All games televised with significant free to air exposure No scheduling overlap with the NatWest T20 Blast IPL style play-off system to give more incentive for finishing higher up the league table A players' draft, with squads of 15 including three overseas players Counties guaranteed £1.3m
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
That doesn't leave much choice for other London venues unless they can use the Olympic Stadium?
I'm unenthused for the concept and how it will affect counties like Kent, though glad there will be some terrestrial coverage
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
Hope Surrey follow this through and don't change their policy. Would be a right headache for the ECB.
Although I can then see them only having one London team with Cardiff getting the other slot.
Whatever it is though... it wont be right, or feel right. The structure needs to change, but in a way that it incorporates not excludes others.
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
Hope Surrey follow this through and don't change their policy. Would be a right headache for the ECB.
Although I can then see them only having one London team with Cardiff getting the other slot.
Whatever it is though... it wont be right, or feel right. The structure needs to change, but in a way that it incorporates not excludes others.
Bang on Lukey boy. As I've said on this thread many times. I agree with change but this isn't the way to go about it. We're copying other counties but completely ignoring the aspects that made theirs successful.
I hope Surrey have the bollocks to tell the ECB where to stuff it.
I don't want the competition to fail but I expect it to either be completely reworked or cancelled within 3 years.
"no scheduling overlap with NatWest T20 Blast" so the new league will run as well as the Blast? If it's test grounds only what would happen should one lose its test status (say Headingley) would "Team Leeds" relocate?
"no scheduling overlap with NatWest T20 Blast" so the new league will run as well as the Blast? If it's test grounds only what would happen should one lose its test status (say Headingley) would "Team Leeds" relocate?
That seems like an awful of T20 cricket in the summer
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
I wasn't aware of that Canters. I knew that Surrey voted against the concept but didn't know they had said they wont play at The Oval - that's a shame, coz if its only Lords being part of the comp then it will be full to the rafters every game, and getting tickets will be a nightmare with it just being turned into a corporate piss-up fest.
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
I wasn't aware of that Canters. I knew that Surrey voted against the concept but didn't know they had said they wont play at The Oval - that's a shame, coz if its only Lords being part of the comp then it will be full to the rafters every game, and getting tickets will be a nightmare with it just being turned into a corporate piss-up fest.
I'm some ways it is a shame. But I admire Surrey for sticking to their guns. Basically saying 'only Surrey play home games at the oval'. Especially with the way the vote was rigged so many counties who wanted to vote against weren't allowed and the rest were bribed. Any county who has received an ECB bailout has no choice but to vote for the changes.
Of course the ECBs leading poster boy has to say that. I've read that whilst players hate the current format and have been calling for change many don't think this was the right way to get it.
8 matches out of 38 to be on terrestrial TV is not making it more available to the masses, cheap tickets to guarantee full grounds will do more if only 8 are shown on free to air, although Surrey is very reasonable already, only £1 for my son and £18 for me I think the last couple of years
8 matches out of 38 to be on terrestrial TV is not making it more available to the masses, cheap tickets to guarantee full grounds will do more if only 8 are shown on free to air, although Surrey is very reasonable already, only £1 for my son and £18 for me I think the last couple of years
The issue is its not like the grounds weren't selling out for T20 anyway. The grounds I have been to (all in the south) Oval, Lords, Beckenham/Canterbury, Hove, Chelmsford are all packed out every T20 game and these clubs already make good money from them. Attendances at T20 was never the issue.
But they were just shitty county players. Wait till we can see the worlds best, playing amongst themselves and getting better. Oh, apart from the England players who are in the test squad at the same time.
Of course the ECBs leading poster boy has to say that. I've read that whilst players hate the current format and have been calling for change many don't think this was the right way to get it.
But i think you'll find that most of the upper echelon players were in favour of it. And the argument about England players will be playing Test matches is that most of the England T20 team dont play in the tests recently anyway - im thinking of the likes of Roy,Hales,Buttler,Mills,Willey,Jordan,Morgan. Its only the likes of Root and Stokes hat will be relevant. It just seems like its got to any excuse to diss it. Why not embrace change and look at it as a way to improve England and see more world class players on our shores? - bloody hell if you dont want that then theres got to be something wrong with you- or would you prefer to watch Stephens bowling to Cobb than Rabada to Kohli ??? Bloody hell, no wonder youre Charlton fans !
Of course the ECBs leading poster boy has to say that. I've read that whilst players hate the current format and have been calling for change many don't think this was the right way to get it.
But i think you'll find that most of the upper echelon players were in favour of it. And the argument about England players will be playing Test matches is that most of the England T20 team dont play in the tests recently anyway - im thinking of the likes of Roy,Hales,Buttler,Mills,Willey,Jordan,Morgan. Its only the likes of Root and Stokes hat will be relevant. It just seems like its got to any excuse to diss it. Why not embrace change and look at it as a way to improve England and see more world class players on our shores? - bloody hell if you dont want that then theres got to be something wrong with you- or would you prefer to watch Stephens bowling to Cobb than Rabada to Kohli ??? Bloody hell, no wonder youre Charlton fans !
It's not just Root and Stokes. There is also Moeen Woakes and possibly Wood Buttler and Rashid all in the test squad so missing out. Yes many of the T20 side will be available but to do it properly there should be an international break.
As for your second point. I have said before I agree change is needed. I have never argued against changing what I think is a flawed setup. However this is not the right change. In fact it is fundamentally wrong. This is a classic case of the suits at the ECB working out that change is needed and looking at what other countries have done and copying that. But instead of tailoring it to us and making it work for us they have gone headfirst into what I think will be a disaster. They haven't worked out what made the IPL and big bash and success. In fact they have done the exact opposite.
Those leagues moving from state to city cricket meant:
More teams. We have less (10 less) More games. We have less (not sure how many but significantly less) More locations. We have 10 less locations. Theirs are solely on terrestrial TV. Ours will be 1/4 on terrestrial TV for the first year. After that it's subject to the ECB and the pull of sky money. They weren't selling out grounds for T20 before. We are already selling out most grounds for most games.
All these things for them make the cricket kettle more accessible. For us the opposite. Less people watching less cricket and having to travel further to do so.
That is the fundamental reason those leagues were a success and the fundamental reason ours won't be.
Other problems I can spot with it. Less English players playing in the English league. With 10 less teams that's minimum 90 less English players. Plus with say 2 extra over seas players that's 16 less in the teams that do play. So over 100 less English players in our T20 competition!
Who will get a contract? Stephens because he is bloody effective on English pitches and is experienced. Likewise Cook Bell Trott Compton Balance etc will all get contracts on name even though they will never play t20 for England again. At what cost? Young up and coming players are going to miss out. The players that are known to county coaches as they have been in the system for years. So those coachs would give them all chance. A franchise? No chance.
I keep harking back to the Currans. But 3 years ago when neither of them had made any county appearances only those who followed academy cricket closely were aware of them. If there was a bidding process for franchises would either of them have been bought? No chance. Yet they both were given their debuts by Surrey that year in the T20 and both excelled and became regulars. That is the route through for young players. Why ruin it?
If you think the 'lesser' T20 competition will continue more than a year then you're crazy.
The argument it will make England better at T20/ODI cricket is null and void. A change of coach and approach has changed our side around. We reached the final of the T20 world cup we have shot up the rankings we have some of the best players in the world and some of the most expensive in the IPL auction. We are expected to do well at the champions trophy. We have depth in this format like never before. Could name 2 T20i teams who I would be confident they could compete internationally.
As said change was needed but they've gone around it the wrong way.
What should have happened: Keep the counties. 3 groups rather than 2 to reduce no of games slightly. Play it all in one 4 week block in the summer holidays. Complete international break. 4 overseas players per team. But no Kolpak all must be current internationals. Have it all on Terrestrial TV. Have all the cheerleaders/stump mic/whatever franchise type stuff you want. Finals day at the Olympic stadium. Make as much song and dance out of it as you like. Keep the established set up that works but build on making it better.
Mr President do you not think that proposal (something very similar was put to the ECB) would not be better and more suited to English cricket?
Further to my previous post on the topic I have one final point.
I have just read that the ECB have confirmed that championship cricket will run at the same time of this. So could it's will be robbed of their best players for championship matchs as they will be playing games for their franchise team on the same day.
Not only is that a compete shambles it it will significantly dilute the quality of the championship game. And make the title/promotion/relegation laughable.
Not doing much to help the test side which is, arguably, the format we are struggling most at currently.
You can always rely on the ECB to come up with the worst possible solution!
They've been blinded by the success of IPL and Big Bash and have enviously plonked down a superficial copy of those leagues as their blueprint. There's no consideration for the different situation in cricket over here. It's like the terrible golfer who sees a bloke wearing yellow Rupert Bear trousers hit a hole in one, so he buys himself a pair the same trousers to improve his game!
Let's be honest, it's all about money. Raising more money from sponsors and TV so the top players get paid a lot more. It has nothing to do with the cricket paying public. Each team will play 4 home games so a max of 8 in south east England. This compares to significantly more (sorry not sure of number) of packed crowds for existing T20 which also allows people of Chelmsford, Canterbury, Hove, Beckenham and Tunbridge Wells to go. Still we can't have all these oiks going can we? It has to be convenient the City based. Certainly cricket needs a revamp but I feel this is a big step backward.
Comments
T20 tournament 'future-proofs' county game - ECB chief tells BBC's Dan Roan
English cricket's new eight-team, city-based Twenty20 tournament moved a step closer on Monday as further details were revealed.
The newly created tournament is proposed to begin in 2020.
Tom Harrison, chief executive of the England and Wales Cricket Board, said it can rival the Indian Premier League and is "not a gamble" for the counties.
"What we are doing here is future-proofing county cricket," Harrison told BBC Sport.
"I don't think it's so much a gamble, I think it's about looking into the future and saying what do we want our business and our game to look like."
A referendum is expected to be dispatched on Tuesday inviting stakeholders to sanction a tournament including eight teams, rather than the 18 first-class counties.
What is changing?
The ECB presented a detailed overview of its proposals for a new Twenty20 competition to its 41 members on Monday, which included:
Eight new teams playing 36 games over a 38-day summer window, with four home games per team
All games televised with significant free to air exposure
No scheduling overlap with the NatWest T20 Blast
IPL style play-off system to give more incentive for finishing higher up the league table
A players' draft, with squads of 15 including three overseas players
Counties guaranteed £1.3m
If its based around Test match venues then it will be...
North London
South London
Manchester
Leeds
Durham (Newcastle)
Nottingham
Birmingham
Southampton
So, what happens to Cardiff ? or because of their financial mismanagement, maybe Durham wont get a slot?
Depends if any Essex players get a game.
I'm interested in the TV plans. Loved it when the IPL was on ITV
Actually just one thing to add. Unless their policy changes before the competition the south London team won't play at the Oval as Surrey won't allow it.
I'm unenthused for the concept and how it will affect counties like Kent, though glad there will be some terrestrial coverage
Although I can then see them only having one London team with Cardiff getting the other slot.
Whatever it is though... it wont be right, or feel right. The structure needs to change, but in a way that it incorporates not excludes others.
I hope Surrey have the bollocks to tell the ECB where to stuff it.
I don't want the competition to fail but I expect it to either be completely reworked or cancelled within 3 years.
If it's test grounds only what would happen should one lose its test status (say Headingley) would "Team Leeds" relocate?
Still it will be a chance to see all the big international stars playing in England.
Except the likes of Root, Stokes, Mills etc as there WILL BE ENGLAND TEST MATCHES PLAYED AT THE SAME TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will need more cricketers so club players make hay!
Also they aim to increase involvement by pushing t20 but there is very limited over 18 20 over stuff in place yet.
And the argument about England players will be playing Test matches is that most of the England T20 team dont play in the tests recently anyway - im thinking of the likes of Roy,Hales,Buttler,Mills,Willey,Jordan,Morgan. Its only the likes of Root and Stokes hat will be relevant.
It just seems like its got to any excuse to diss it.
Why not embrace change and look at it as a way to improve England and see more world class players on our shores? - bloody hell if you dont want that then theres got to be something wrong with you- or would you prefer to watch Stephens bowling to Cobb than Rabada to Kohli ??? Bloody hell, no wonder youre Charlton fans !
As for your second point. I have said before I agree change is needed. I have never argued against changing what I think is a flawed setup. However this is not the right change. In fact it is fundamentally wrong. This is a classic case of the suits at the ECB working out that change is needed and looking at what other countries have done and copying that. But instead of tailoring it to us and making it work for us they have gone headfirst into what I think will be a disaster. They haven't worked out what made the IPL and big bash and success. In fact they have done the exact opposite.
Those leagues moving from state to city cricket meant:
More teams. We have less (10 less)
More games. We have less (not sure how many but significantly less)
More locations. We have 10 less locations.
Theirs are solely on terrestrial TV. Ours will be 1/4 on terrestrial TV for the first year. After that it's subject to the ECB and the pull of sky money.
They weren't selling out grounds for T20 before. We are already selling out most grounds for most games.
All these things for them make the cricket kettle more accessible. For us the opposite. Less people watching less cricket and having to travel further to do so.
That is the fundamental reason those leagues were a success and the fundamental reason ours won't be.
Other problems I can spot with it. Less English players playing in the English league. With 10 less teams that's minimum 90 less English players. Plus with say 2 extra over seas players that's 16 less in the teams that do play. So over 100 less English players in our T20 competition!
Who will get a contract? Stephens because he is bloody effective on English pitches and is experienced. Likewise Cook Bell Trott Compton Balance etc will all get contracts on name even though they will never play t20 for England again. At what cost? Young up and coming players are going to miss out. The players that are known to county coaches as they have been in the system for years. So those coachs would give them all chance. A franchise? No chance.
I keep harking back to the Currans. But 3 years ago when neither of them had made any county appearances only those who followed academy cricket closely were aware of them. If there was a bidding process for franchises would either of them have been bought? No chance. Yet they both were given their debuts by Surrey that year in the T20 and both excelled and became regulars. That is the route through for young players. Why ruin it?
If you think the 'lesser' T20 competition will continue more than a year then you're crazy.
The argument it will make England better at T20/ODI cricket is null and void. A change of coach and approach has changed our side around. We reached the final of the T20 world cup we have shot up the rankings we have some of the best players in the world and some of the most expensive in the IPL auction. We are expected to do well at the champions trophy. We have depth in this format like never before. Could name 2 T20i teams who I would be confident they could compete internationally.
As said change was needed but they've gone around it the wrong way.
What should have happened:
Keep the counties.
3 groups rather than 2 to reduce no of games slightly.
Play it all in one 4 week block in the summer holidays.
Complete international break.
4 overseas players per team. But no Kolpak all must be current internationals.
Have it all on Terrestrial TV.
Have all the cheerleaders/stump mic/whatever franchise type stuff you want.
Finals day at the Olympic stadium. Make as much song and dance out of it as you like.
Keep the established set up that works but build on making it better.
Mr President do you not think that proposal (something very similar was put to the ECB) would not be better and more suited to English cricket?
Would like as much free to air as possible. If this tournament allows 5 day tests back into free to air, I would be all for it.
I'm sure it won't and that's a massive shame.
A full 5 test series on free to air will remain the pinnacle of sport for me.
I have just read that the ECB have confirmed that championship cricket will run at the same time of this. So could it's will be robbed of their best players for championship matchs as they will be playing games for their franchise team on the same day.
Not only is that a compete shambles it it will significantly dilute the quality of the championship game. And make the title/promotion/relegation laughable.
Not doing much to help the test side which is, arguably, the format we are struggling most at currently.
They've been blinded by the success of IPL and Big Bash and have enviously plonked down a superficial copy of those leagues as their blueprint. There's no consideration for the different situation in cricket over here. It's like the terrible golfer who sees a bloke wearing yellow Rupert Bear trousers hit a hole in one, so he buys himself a pair the same trousers to improve his game!
Certainly cricket needs a revamp but I feel this is a big step backward.
Proper f*ck up by the ECB