I was referring to your comment about the spectators going to sea in boats, which is a little impractical.
Why? If you're that into it that you wanna stand right underneath it, charter yourself a boat and if you got nixed by a Hawker, you've only got yourself to blame.
Unlike, if you're going about your everyday business and get taken out on your way to the shops
Im actually not into it but like I said earlier get real, what happened was an accident, they are very rare at airshows, they are carefully regulated but things go wrong. Like I say when was the previous fatality at an air show, that requires everyone wanting to see one having to put to sea to watch one. You would probably get more people drowned or rammed by a ferry.
RIP to all those needlessly killed and thoughts to all the friends and families shattered by this terrible tragedy. Still, it kept the kids occupied for a few hours didn't it
RIP to all those needlessly killed and thoughts to all the friends and families shattered by this terrible tragedy. Still, it kept the kids occupied for a few hours didn't it
I really can't be arsed to try and reason with you anymore.
At least 7 people, totally un involved in the air show have just been killed on a public road (They weren't at the show). Leaving all the other statstics out of it, is there not anyone that thinks maybe it's time to look at limiting the stuff these pilots do OVER HOUSES AND PUBLIC ROADS ETC?
Still I spose it made for some good mobile phone footage for the show goers eh
This was a tragic accident, but it is very rare. How many people have been killed in air displays apart from these. A large number died at Farnborough some years ago in the 1950's after which they restricted the overflying of crowds. What will happen is that the rules on flight paths, height restrictions and aerobatics will be tightened up and made safer
I know it's rare, but what's to be lost by regulating it? I'm not saying outlawing it, just stopping the stunts over populated areas, risking peoples lives for the sake of an afternoon's entertainment....
Nothing is to be lost by regulating it. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't already regulated. I'm all for reviewing and revising the regulations as appropriate, but the opening gambit in this thread was whether it is time to call it a halt to air shows; that is just the sort of massive knee-jerk reaction that typically comes quite quickly following tragedies like this and isn't, in my view, a proportionate or appropriate response.
At least 7 people, totally un involved in the air show have just been killed on a public road (They weren't at the show). Leaving all the other statstics out of it, is there not anyone that thinks maybe it's time to look at limiting the stuff these pilots do OVER HOUSES AND PUBLIC ROADS ETC?
Still I spose it made for some good mobile phone footage for the show goers eh
This was a tragic accident, but it is very rare. How many people have been killed in air displays apart from these. A large number died at Farnborough some years ago in the 1950's after which they restricted the overflying of crowds. What will happen is that the rules on flight paths, height restrictions and aerobatics will be tightened up and made safer
I know it's rare, but what's to be lost by regulating it? I'm not saying outlawing it, just stopping the stunts over populated areas, risking peoples lives for the sake of an afternoon's entertainment....
Nothing is to be lost by regulating it. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't already regulated. I'm all for reviewing and revising the regulations as appropriate, but the opening gambit in this threat was whether it is time to call it a halt to air shows; that is just the sort of massive knee-jerk reaction that typically comes quite quickly following tragedies like this, and isn't in my view a proportionate or appropriate response.
Maybe nothing, as I said I'd welcome a review of the regs. But I'd wan't any decision to be an informed one made by experts with full access to the facts; not a hysterical nerve twitch by a bunch of geezers on a football forum.
At least 7 people, totally un involved in the air show have just been killed on a public road (They weren't at the show). Leaving all the other statstics out of it, is there not anyone that thinks maybe it's time to look at limiting the stuff these pilots do OVER HOUSES AND PUBLIC ROADS ETC?
Still I spose it made for some good mobile phone footage for the show goers eh
This was a tragic accident, but it is very rare. How many people have been killed in air displays apart from these. A large number died at Farnborough some years ago in the 1950's after which they restricted the overflying of crowds. What will happen is that the rules on flight paths, height restrictions and aerobatics will be tightened up and made safer
I know it's rare, but what's to be lost by regulating it? I'm not saying outlawing it, just stopping the stunts over populated areas, risking peoples lives for the sake of an afternoon's entertainment....
Nothing is to be lost by regulating it. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't already regulated. I'm all for reviewing and revising the regulations as appropriate, but the opening gambit in this thread was whether it is time to call it a halt to air shows; that is just the sort of massive knee-jerk reaction that typically comes quite quickly following tragedies like this and isn't, in my view, a proportionate or appropriate response.
Well there are at least 11 people needlessly dead as a result of this well regulated event that allows 65 year old jets to carry out manoeuvres they were not designed for over densely populated parts of the country.
Knee jerk possibly but I can't change my opinion that very significant changes to how these things are organised need to happen up to and including stopping them.
Maybe nothing, as I said I'd welcome a review of the regs. But I'd wan't any decision to be an informed one made by experts with full access to the facts; not a hysterical nerve twitch by a bunch of geezers on a football forum.
Have I not mentioned that before running me shop next to Grove Park BR I was an informed expert?
Maybe nothing, as I said I'd welcome a review of the regs. But I'd wan't any decision to be an informed one made by experts with full access to the facts; not a hysterical nerve twitch by a bunch of geezers on a football forum.
Have I not mentioned that before running me shop next to Grove Park BR I was an informed expert?
Ahh, yes you have. Sorry, I'm going to have to back down on this one then aren't I ;-)
Maybe nothing, as I said I'd welcome a review of the regs. But I'd wan't any decision to be an informed one made by experts with full access to the facts; not a hysterical nerve twitch by a bunch of geezers on a football forum.
Have I not mentioned that before running me shop next to Grove Park BR I was an informed expert?
Ahh, yes you have. Sorry, I'm going to have to back down on this one then aren't I ;-)
I know nothing about it personally but as far as I am aware these shows are under massive requirements in terms of safety, yet we have loss of life too many times.
My absolute heartfelt sympathies go to everyone caught up in it.
My friend Rob was there yesterday. He said you could hear a pin drop afterwards. So so tragic. His post on FB was that he was allowed to leave the airfield at 23.30 and at least he could.
I've never been to an air show but was badgering the missus so that we could go to Bournemouth at the weekend after seeing the Biggin Hill 75 post on CL.
How can airshows be compared to commercial flights ? The percentage of accidents at these airshows must be so much higher than those caused by commercial planes.
At least 7 people, totally un involved in the air show have just been killed on a public road (They weren't at the show). Leaving all the other statstics out of it, is there not anyone that thinks maybe it's time to look at limiting the stuff these pilots do OVER HOUSES AND PUBLIC ROADS ETC?
Still I spose it made for some good mobile phone footage for the show goers eh
This was a tragic accident, but it is very rare. How many people have been killed in air displays apart from these. A large number died at Farnborough some years ago in the 1950's after which they restricted the overflying of crowds. What will happen is that the rules on flight paths, height restrictions and aerobatics will be tightened up and made safer
I know it's rare, but what's to be lost by regulating it? I'm not saying outlawing it, just stopping the stunts over populated areas, risking peoples lives for the sake of an afternoon's entertainment....
Nothing is to be lost by regulating it. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it isn't already regulated. I'm all for reviewing and revising the regulations as appropriate, but the opening gambit in this threat was whether it is time to call it a halt to air shows; that is just the sort of massive knee-jerk reaction that typically comes quite quickly following tragedies like this, and isn't in my view a proportionate or appropriate response.
Okay then, what's to be lost by regulating it moreso that Biggles ain't pulling loops over populated areas
A former pilot was on the news this morning and he said that the plane that hit the ground did a maneuver that was lower to the ground than the regulations permitted. I wasn't listening very carefully (I was doing something else) but the chap said that had the pilot been high enough up to conform with the regulations the accident wouldn't have happened. He did speculate that it mightn't have been pilot error or negligence and could have been a mechanical fault, although he did say that the stringent tests that the planes have would make it unlikely that it was a factor of the plane's age. He was adamant that these old planes were just as safe as new ones.
For all we know the pilot could have been taken ill - something that could happen in any plane or any car or bus. Until the crash investigators deliver a report I think it would be irresponsible to make any significant changes to rules and regulations.
My spelling and grammer ain't the best I know, but I've tried to make my point more than once. If the planes weren't allowed to do such things where it did then it never would've happened, whether it be bird strike, pilot error, pilot illness, machanical error etc etc, if it was over water it woulda ditched into the sea
Your water-based location suggestions are a bit ridiculous brogib. Only people who live near the coast can attend air shows?
Given the planes almost never crash, that is an unnecessary diversion.
What gives you that idea, that only people who live at the seaside can go to the show? That's a bit like saying only people who live near the airfield can go at the moment
Please remember that this is the worst tragedy a at a UK air show since the 50s. we do not know if the plane had a fault or if it was pilot error. Air shows in the UK are safe, trust me I've attended enough in my lifetime. This was a tragic accident.
One of the things that I'm struggling with most is the fact that none of those killed were even at the show.
*That's not an agument, just a statement.*
Yeah I know, the pilot should have killed those who attended instead...
We're all good at pointing out things retrospectively. It was a horrible accident and i'm sure the pilot is feeling pretty terrible right now.
He wouldn't have done because, as was stated in an earlier post, doing stunts over the paying guests is against the regulations, which kind of makes my point for me don't it?
Dissapointed with your comment there tbh though Nick
I only said it because quite a few people have said that it won't stop them going to the shows in future, sorry you found it to be ludicrous
The bottom line is mate that you can't just switch off the industry and liveleyhoods behind the airshow business. Yes, I agree that maybe planes of that age shouldn't be attempting loops but to stop the shows would be wrong. RIP to all those who died yesterday BTW.
Well, all I can think about are the innocent, people killed yesterday, as I said I have no problem with fly pasts, but stunts, time to call a end to it,RIP.
The investigation is not complete so we have no idea what exactly caused the plane to crash, any talk of calling time on air shows or stunts is premature to say the least.
Comments
RIP to all those needlessly killed and thoughts to all the friends and families shattered by this terrible tragedy. Still, it kept the kids occupied for a few hours didn't it
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP 403 Flying displays and special events.pdf
Knee jerk possibly but I can't change my opinion that very significant changes to how these things are organised need to happen up to and including stopping them.
I know nothing about it personally but as far as I am aware these shows are under massive requirements in terms of safety, yet we have loss of life too many times.
My absolute heartfelt sympathies go to everyone caught up in it.
My friend Rob was there yesterday. He said you could hear a pin drop afterwards. So so tragic. His post on FB was that he was allowed to leave the airfield at 23.30 and at least he could.
I've never been to an air show but was badgering the missus so that we could go to Bournemouth at the weekend after seeing the Biggin Hill 75 post on CL.
May they all rest in peace.
The percentage of accidents at these airshows must be so much higher than those caused by commercial planes.
Another death at an airshow in Switzerland today.
For all we know the pilot could have been taken ill - something that could happen in any plane or any car or bus. Until the crash investigators deliver a report I think it would be irresponsible to make any significant changes to rules and regulations.
IGMC
Given the planes almost never crash, that is an unnecessary diversion.
To bring some sense to some of the comments on this thread, please read this.
http://vintageaeroplanewriter.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/uk-airshow-safety.html
It is the most sensible piece I've seen.
Please remember that this is the worst tragedy a at a UK air show since the 50s. we do not know if the plane had a fault or if it was pilot error. Air shows in the UK are safe, trust me I've attended enough in my lifetime. This was a tragic accident.
Will it stop me attending air shows? No it won't.
*That's not an agument, just a statement.*
We're all good at pointing out things retrospectively. It was a horrible accident and i'm sure the pilot is feeling pretty terrible right now.
Dissapointed with your comment there tbh though Nick