RD must risk breaking golden rule/Luzon must play long game
First lets not take anything away from the achievements so far. A very decent number of acquisitions, good positive football, and some very nice results to boot, so what's the problem? Well, it's the squad IMHO, its still somehow short of that magic number, although not as much as last term, i think however that the management recognise this, but are confined by a too rigid approach.
Strict squad limits are a dmirable in some ways yes, but can stifle progress, and when you have as much money as Roland, is it sensible to apply that dogma when the treasure of promotion to the Premier League must surely be the ambition? The alternative is to stay in the second tier and flush £5m or more down the toilet each year. The Gomez money we are led to believe by some of around £7m over two years, plus a bit more in add ons must be nearly spent, so maybe its time to put that bit more in.
Sure one must not blow all your chips on one hand, it just seems that squad policy is a little too rigid and must be allowed to flex a bit more - if indeed this is the problem. 2-3 long term acqisitions still needed, and if necessary get both wingers Henry and Pennant, and perhaps another centre half, and maybe even a longer term goal keeper.
What of Luzon? The crowd are certainly beginning to warm to him. He has a positive approach and that is excellent, the problem may be however wanting to win every game. When CAFC were under the management of AP (yuck) he organised the team in an attacking style, but the result was often 80 minutes of defending. The squad buckled with injuries ending Jon Fortunes career and the team nosedived. A different manager of course and it's early days for Luzon's team, but the already mounting injuries are a concern at front and back, and I predict will show in the result tomorrow against Wolves away.
The distraction of the cup may also affect the team. Of course Palace away is a big interest to Charlton fans, it is not in any way crucial however and should not be set up that way - altho perhaps its a little lost in translation.
The Championship is a marathon not a sprint, and if you want to finish at the required pace to be in the top slots come May you have to pace it correctly and live within your means. The remarkable run in under Riga is what springs to mind here,
Perhaps this is a little unfair on Luzon, we will see. What must happen to build on this great start is get those few more talents through the door, to avoid waisting the great start.
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I think we are short of cover in some areas but there's no point in panic buying. If a player we want is too expensive (fee and/or wages) then we don't sign them. I think that's a sensible approach rather than putting the club in financial danger down the line.
We've been there before with Mark Hulyer, yes exciting at the time but in the end the club nearly disappeared.
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Agree but there is no evidence to suggest it would be a great risk under RD, then there's losing 5m a year which is pretty hefty.0
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If we're losing money, and you're advocating spending more, how does that equate to "living within our means" ?2
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You wrote something similer before the season started and we've had great results since, the injured players are all coming back now apart from maybe Reza and moussa and Luzon has said he still wants two more the squad is fine especially with the amazing academy players we have coming through.razil said:..That is if Charlton are to compete in the top six this season.
First lets not take anything away from the achievements so far. A very decent number of acquisitions, good positive football, and some very nice results to boot, so what's the problem? Well, it's the squad IMHO, its still somehow short of that magic number, although not as much as last term, i think however that the management recognise this, but are confined by a too rigid approach.
Strict squad limits are a dmirable in some ways yes, but can stifle progress, and when you have as much money as Roland, is it sensible to apply that dogma when the treasure of promotion to the Premier League must surely be the ambition? The alternative is to stay in the second tier and flush £5m or more down the toilet each year. The Gomez money we are led to believe by some of around £7m over two years, plus a bit more in add ons must be nearly spent, so maybe its time to put that bit more in.
Sure one must not blow all your chips on one hand, it just seems that squad policy is a little too rigid and must be allowed to flex a bit more - if indeed this is the problem. 2-3 long term acqisitions still needed, and if necessary get both wingers Henry and Pennant, and perhaps another centre half, and maybe even a longer term goal keeper.
What of Luzon? The crowd are certainly beginning to warm to him. He has a positive approach and that is excellent, the problem may be however wanting to win every game. When CAFC were under the management of AP (yuck) he organised the team in an attacking style, but the result was often 80 minutes of defending. The squad buckled with injuries ending Jon Fortunes career and the team nosedived. A different manager of course and it's early days for Luzon's team, but the already mounting injuries are a concern at front and back, and I predict will show in the result tomorrow against Wolves away.
The distraction of the cup may also affect the team. Of course Palace away is a big interest to Charlton fans, it is not in any way crucial however and should not be set up that way - altho perhaps its a little lost in translation.
The Championship is a marathon not a sprint, and if you want to finish at the required pace to be in the top slots come May you have to pace it correctly and live within your means. The remarkable run in under Riga is what springs to mind here,
Perhaps this is a little unfair on Luzon, we will see. What must happen to build on this great start is get those few more talents through the door, to avoid waisting the great start.
stop panicking and enjoy the best team/players we have had In years and enjoy having a manager that wants to go out and win every game it's an exciting time to be a Charlton fan
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It's easy to want a bigger squad, not as easy to get one. For me, the only area we are desperate for cover is at right-back.
I would also wish to see an experienced keeper in on a short term deal until Hendo is fit. Long term, I think we may need to consider another first choice keeper.1 -
razil said:
..That is if Charlton are to compete in the top six this season.
First lets not take anything away from the achievements so far. A very decent number of acquisitions, good positive football, and some very nice results to boot, so what's the problem? Well, it's the squad IMHO, its still somehow short of that magic number, although not as much as last term, i think however that the management recognise this, but are confined by a too rigid approach.
I'd rather they stuck to their guns in terms of fees and wages paid, as we have seen British players are massively overrated and their fees are massively inflated, and in actual fact there is little evidence to say he won't spend the money on the right players, he just won't bow to teams and their ridiculous asking prices
Strict squad limits are a dmirable in some ways yes, but can stifle progress, and when you have as much money as Roland, is it sensible to apply that dogma when the treasure of promotion to the Premier League must surely be the ambition? The alternative is to stay in the second tier and flush £5m or more down the toilet each year. The Gomez money we are led to believe by some of around £7m over two years, plus a bit more in add ons must be nearly spent, so maybe its time to put that bit more in.
again I'd rather see the opposite, buy cheap, sell large, build a squad of young players and slowly push up the league. The championship is a lot more competitive than most other leagues, a small investment can talk great rewards, there's no need to throw money around
Sure one must not blow all your chips on one hand, it just seems that squad policy is a little too rigid and must be allowed to flex a bit more - if indeed this is the problem. 2-3 long term acqisitions still needed, and if necessary get both wingers Henry and Pennant, and perhaps another centre half, and maybe even a longer term goal keeper.
Henderson, Pope, Dmitrovic and Mitov, that's plenty enough, under 28 too. I agree with the need of a winger or two, however I think the centre half position is fine, and a premiership loanee can fill any gap there
What of Luzon? The crowd are certainly beginning to warm to him. He has a positive approach and that is excellent, the problem may be however wanting to win every game. When CAFC were under the management of AP (yuck) he organised the team in an attacking style, but the result was often 80 minutes of defending. The squad buckled with injuries ending Jon Fortunes career and the team nosedived. A different manager of course and it's early days for Luzon's team, but the already mounting injuries are a concern at front and back, and I predict will show in the result tomorrow against Wolves away.
like most predicted for Hull at home too, and it seems Solly and Vetokele may well be back in time for Saturday
The distraction of the cup may also affect the team. Of course Palace away is a big interest to Charlton fans, it is not in any way crucial however and should not be set up that way - altho perhaps its a little lost in translation.
the COC is a great time to blood youngsters, play fringe players and see where it takes you, I agree that we see it as a far more important game as its Palarse, but make no mistake the team we put out will be competitive, and I'm sure Palace will be in the same frame of mind
The Championship is a marathon not a sprint, and if you want to finish at the required pace to be in the top slots come May you have to pace it correctly and live within your means. The remarkable run in under Riga is what springs to mind here,
disagree entirely, Riga used to almost throw certain games in favour ofthoughng a result at the next game, to try to keep us up, Luzon sets out to win every game we play, one at a time, and that's how it should always be. It may well be a marathon, but when you get a great start you need to keep pushing along that momentum and gain as many points as possible as quickly as possible.
Perhaps this is a little unfair on Luzon, we will see. What must happen to build on this great start is get those few more talents through the door, to avoid waisting the great start.
it wouldnt be a waste though would it, no one in the media, other clubs' fans or even most of our fans predicted such a good start to the season, especially with our early fixtures. If we suddenly start going on about how "we should be winning these games" and "well we're higher in the table so we must be better" mentality, we'll all turn into the fans we have seen so far this season, and underestimate our opponents, let's just quietly go about our business, not a sky camera in sight, and see where our bizarre but so far brilliant manager and young, hungry, skilled squad can lead us12 -
I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.7
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Hear, hear Sam0
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The second sentence I agree with... but the first, not so much. It's very early in the season, the players are all fresh, Hull are suffering from a post-Prem hangover and bar an offside decision and a VERY late goal it would have been one point or even none whatsoever. It was a good performance and a good win but not exactly a resounding victory despite the good result. Once the season drags on and we pick up injuries or players just get tired (and they will) that kind of game we could very easily lose. The squad IS still pretty shallow. Let's not let a slightly fortuitous if extremely enjoyable win fool us into thinking everything's sunshine and rainbows - remember we had good results at the start of last season too and look what happened there...northstandsteve said:I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.
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For a start that was a fully deserved win against Hull and this seasons start can't be compared to last season as its a better team with a better manager and there was a lot of lucky results in those first 12 games last season we're actually taking the game to other teams now and look like winning.thenewbie said:
The second sentence I agree with... but the first, not so much. It's very early in the season, the players are all fresh, Hull are suffering from a post-Prem hangover and bar an offside decision and a VERY late goal it would have been one point or even none whatsoever. It was a good performance and a good win but not exactly a resounding victory despite the good result. Once the season drags on and we pick up injuries or players just get tired (and they will) that kind of game we could very easily lose. The squad IS still pretty shallow. Let's not let a slightly fortuitous if extremely enjoyable win fool us into thinking everything's sunshine and rainbows - remember we had good results at the start of last season too and look what happened there...northstandsteve said:I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.
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you must have been at a different game, fortuitous your having a laugh !!!thenewbie said:
The second sentence I agree with... but the first, not so much. It's very early in the season, the players are all fresh, Hull are suffering from a post-Prem hangover and bar an offside decision and a VERY late goal it would have been one point or even none whatsoever. It was a good performance and a good win but not exactly a resounding victory despite the good result. Once the season drags on and we pick up injuries or players just get tired (and they will) that kind of game we could very easily lose. The squad IS still pretty shallow. Let's not let a slightly fortuitous if extremely enjoyable win fool us into thinking everything's sunshine and rainbows - remember we had good results at the start of last season too and look what happened there...northstandsteve said:I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.
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At some point Luzon will hit a rough patch. I just hope Duchatelet and Katrien stick with him and back him when it happens. He is our Alex Ferguson after all.0
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Read all about it...... "Football fan in "the Club should spend more money" shocker!3
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Pretty much every football fan in the world of every team, right up to Champions League level, will be able to identify areas in which their club's squad can be strengthened. It's the nature of the game, you're never going to have a perfect squad.
Personally I think what we have is more than sufficient to compete at this level.
Bear in mind that, on Tuesday, we more or less played our reserves and walked the match. Yes, it was Peterborough, but they wanted to win.
Let's just stop panicking and appreciate the fact that, for once, we're in a good position and playing good football!2 -
No, we played well, very well I am not arguing we didn't. But they COULD have had two goals (we've seen offside decisions got wrong before, it could have been let stand) and we didn't score the winner until the 98th minute. The performance was good - the result WAS lucky. Deserved on the balance of play but we don't always get what we deserve, in this case we were fortunate enough that we did.northstandsteve said:
you must have been at a different game, fortuitous your having a laugh !!!thenewbie said:
The second sentence I agree with... but the first, not so much. It's very early in the season, the players are all fresh, Hull are suffering from a post-Prem hangover and bar an offside decision and a VERY late goal it would have been one point or even none whatsoever. It was a good performance and a good win but not exactly a resounding victory despite the good result. Once the season drags on and we pick up injuries or players just get tired (and they will) that kind of game we could very easily lose. The squad IS still pretty shallow. Let's not let a slightly fortuitous if extremely enjoyable win fool us into thinking everything's sunshine and rainbows - remember we had good results at the start of last season too and look what happened there...northstandsteve said:I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.
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Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey.
Very happy with the progress so far.5 -
The result wasn't lucky.thenewbie said:
No, we played well, very well I am not arguing we didn't. But they COULD have had two goals (we've seen offside decisions got wrong before, it could have been let stand) and we didn't score the winner until the 98th minute. The performance was good - the result WAS lucky. Deserved on the balance of play but we don't always get what we deserve, in this case we were fortunate enough that we did.northstandsteve said:
you must have been at a different game, fortuitous your having a laugh !!!thenewbie said:
The second sentence I agree with... but the first, not so much. It's very early in the season, the players are all fresh, Hull are suffering from a post-Prem hangover and bar an offside decision and a VERY late goal it would have been one point or even none whatsoever. It was a good performance and a good win but not exactly a resounding victory despite the good result. Once the season drags on and we pick up injuries or players just get tired (and they will) that kind of game we could very easily lose. The squad IS still pretty shallow. Let's not let a slightly fortuitous if extremely enjoyable win fool us into thinking everything's sunshine and rainbows - remember we had good results at the start of last season too and look what happened there...northstandsteve said:I think our result against Hull last week shows our squad is a lot stronger than people think, chicago addick had a little dig on twitter before the game at RD about the squad, but didn't have much to say after the result. People far too quick to have a dig, how many people expecting the result at Peterborough given the side that played.
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Who's panicking?
I'm afraid unless clubs break even, SKY and ffp have mad sure that won't happen, there really is little point in flushing 5mil down the drain unless youre a fan and he isnt.
If you dont resource your company properly because of and ideological policy it wall fail, as shown last season. If you don't have much cash, and are propping the club up for love or having to sell players to survive fair enough. But if you have a lot of dough there really is little point in standing still for years. Waste of time and money.
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I think you need to define fail in the context of a football club.0
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So, every game when the winning goal is scored late, the result is lucky. How do you define "lucky"? Is the winning goal after 70 minutes, 80 minutes, 85 minutes defined as a lucky result?3
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But “resourcing your company” is far less risky than spending money in the transfer market – they’re not even remotely the same thing with inherently different levels of risk.razil said:Who's panicking?
I'm afraid unless clubs break even, SKY and ffp have mad sure that won't happen, there really is little point in flushing 5mil down the drain unless youre a fan and he isnt.
If you dont resource your company properly because of and ideological policy it wall fail, as shown last season. If you don't have much cash, and are propping the club up for love or having to sell players to survive fair enough. But if you have a lot of dough there really is little point in standing still for years. Waste of time and money.
This is the part of the equation that people always seem to forget, they say “if we’re in and around the top ten/eight at Christmas we should spend big in January, it’ll pay for itself when we get promoted”. This ignores the fundamental unpredictability of football, that’s why we watch it and it’s why it’s miles away from being like “resourcing a company”. Eight or nine teams in January will think they have a decent shot at promotion, only one third of them will be right so we have far more chance of spending money we don’t have and still not being promoted.
I’d rather continue on the road we’re on, working towards a sustainable model, selling a young player every couple of years to cover any losses and trying to get promotion through utilising a good young manager who understands his squad and a team of academy products blended with some real foreign quality.
I don’t think we’ll get promoted this year, but I’m happy so long as we progress both on and off the pitch – I’m in it for the long haul and I don’t need Premier League football next season, nor would I risk the future of the club on chasing it.
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Its been fixed by GL, KM, RD, its not broken, why try and fix it?
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So buying players isnt resourcing your company?0
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And no one says its broken, if you read what I wrote0
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It may be a semantic argument but resourcing is providing resource from revenue spend allowing you to operate. In a football context, buying players is akin to capital investment and like any capital investment it should be accompanied with a pay-off statement.razil said:So buying players isnt resourcing your company?
In a manufacturing industry for example that's relatively straightforward because costs of plant and machinery can be justified by unit costs of manufacture and strength of order book. The problem with players is that there's no easy way to define a pay-off statement other than if we get promotion it pays-off - if we don't get promotion it doesn't. So buying players is not resourcing, it's gambling or at best a highly speculative investment.2 -
But we are heading in the direction of growth, both player wise, the managers ideas and philosophy have been taken on board by the players and staff (yes I did think it was a little unfair on Luzon BTW), thats what I mean by not broken, GL's ideas are working.razil said:And no one says its broken, if you read what I wrote
Also the OP does seem to be looking to tell RD how to do it (break the golden rule, whatever that is), when the reality is the KM did admit that they were surprised at the standard of the Championship. I would argue that RD has adapted to what is required, all the so called 'Network' tosh seems to have disappeared, RD is spending more and using the scouting network to provide quality players, I think he knows the direction he wants to take the club in, I for now am more than happy with RD GL and KM, long may it continue.4 -
Think I understand what you're saying Razil but although RD has the money, he's made it abundantly clear that he's not going to be a sugar daddy figure and that the club must stand on its own feet. We still don't really know a lot about him but it appears he's determined to see if his model can work and that his very dogma will stop him overspending any time soon. As things stand that doesn't look likely to hamper us, with steady progress being made, but as the season takes its toll we'll surely need cover - perhaps that can come from Sparrows Lane as long as they're not all thrown in at once.razil said:Who's panicking?
I'm afraid unless clubs break even, SKY and ffp have mad sure that won't happen, there really is little point in flushing 5mil down the drain unless youre a fan and he isnt.
If you dont resource your company properly because of and ideological policy it wall fail, as shown last season. If you don't have much cash, and are propping the club up for love or having to sell players to survive fair enough. But if you have a lot of dough there really is little point in standing still for years. Waste of time and money.
It would of course be frustrating to go close and miss out wondering what might've been in May but building carefully is surely what we've been brought up on in SE7. We've been disappointed to narrowly miss out on a few transfer targets to date, yet the more affordable replacements so far have been very impressive. If ultimately this season proves to be along the lines of eg Ipswich's last season, it can still be seen as very satisfying, leaving us with a platform to build on next year. Or maybe, just maybe, this tenacious skillful bunch will surpass our expectations...
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If you are buying a new computer, you are resourcing your company. To buy tried and tested technology, and it works.razil said:So buying players isnt resourcing your company?
Buying a player has intangibles. What is his character? Will he fit in in the dressing room? And what if he does his ACL 5 minutes into his debut? No guarantee is involved.
So, it's like punting on roulette. That's not resourcing, that's gambling...0
