Rooney is, and has been for years, a world class player, and if numbers are all that counts then he's the best.
But it's more than numbers surely. I would put both Lineker and Charlton ahead of Rooney on ability and bare in mind Charlton wasn't even an out and out striker. I've just read an article on the BBC website comparing Rooney to a number of England strikers from the past and unless I missed it there was no mention of Jimmy Greaves, in my opinion the greatest English striker in my lifetime.
World-class is the most overused phrase in football, as highlighted once again here. Not even close to world-class, and would never start for a top international team like Germany, Spain or Argentina. Not meant as a disparaging remark - he's a very good player - but never in a million years does he belong in that top bracket. Look at his first touch for a start. Could only dream of having the ball control that players like Suarez, Aguero and Neymar have. Messi too. England don't have ANY world-class players at the moment and I can't remember the last player we had who delivered with a degree of regularity on the ultimate stage. Terry maybe? Rooney, certainly hasn't. Just two goals in major tournaments in the last decade; speaks volumes for me.
Rooney and (Bobby) Charlton Terry and Moore Tyson and Ali Daly and Nicklaus Pietersen and Hutton Blackpool and London Las Vegas and Paris Pepsi and Champagne
I could go on..
One Direction and The Beatles The Mighty Boosch and Monty Python Parkinson ITV 2000's and Parkinson BBC 1970's
So tempted to flag you for putting those two in the same sentence
The thing is you have to ask if Rooney is really World class would he get in the World 11? and the answer is no I doubt he would get on the bench so I agree that the "World Class" thing is really overused on a player who promised a lot but didn't really deliver when it mattered (Euro 2004 apart).
On the discussion of who is the greatest striker sorry to be an old fogey but Jimmy Greaves by a country mile unless you have seen him in his pomp you won't understand. Jimmy was lethal, very fast, two footed and passed the ball into the net for me the best English striker ever.
Credit to Rooney though 50 goals is 50 goals so I congratulate him
Rooney is, and has been for years, a world class player, and if numbers are all that counts then he's the best.
But it's more than numbers surely. I would put both Lineker and Charlton ahead of Rooney on ability and bare in mind Charlton wasn't even an out and out striker. I've just read an article on the BBC website comparing Rooney to a number of England strikers from the past and unless I missed it there was no mention of Jimmy Greaves, in my opinion the greatest English striker in my lifetime.
Pretty sure he has by far the best goals to games ratio (if you don't include Franny Jeffers 1 in1)
EDIT: According to Wikipedia 44 goals in 57 matches. Extraordinary
Rooney and (Bobby) Charlton Terry and Moore Tyson and Ali Daly and Nicklaus Pietersen and Hutton Blackpool and London Las Vegas and Paris Pepsi and Champagne
I could go on..
One Direction and The Beatles The Mighty Boosch and Monty Python Parkinson ITV 2000's and Parkinson BBC 1970's
So tempted to flag you for putting those two in the same sentence
Rooney is, and has been for years, a world class player, and if numbers are all that counts then he's the best.
But it's more than numbers surely. I would put both Lineker and Charlton ahead of Rooney on ability and bare in mind Charlton wasn't even an out and out striker. I've just read an article on the BBC website comparing Rooney to a number of England strikers from the past and unless I missed it there was no mention of Jimmy Greaves, in my opinion the greatest English striker in my lifetime.
World-class is the most overused phrase in football, as highlighted once again here. Not even close to world-class, and would never start for a top international team like Germany, Spain or Argentina. Not meant as a disparaging remark - he's a very good player - but never in a million years does he belong in that top bracket. Look at his first touch for a start. Could only dream of having the ball control that players like Suarez, Aguero and Neymar have. Messi too. England don't have ANY world-class players at the moment and I can't remember the last player we had who delivered with a degree of regularity on the ultimate stage. Terry maybe? Rooney, certainly hasn't. Just two goals in major tournaments in the last decade; speaks volumes for me.
On reflection, I make you right.
Charlton, Lineker and Greavsie were most definitely in that bracket though!
I always wanted Lineker to beat Sir Bobby's record but it doesn't seem quite the same with Rooney. I reckon I might have nicked a few goals against San Marino, Isle of Man, Scilly Isles or whatever.
Yeh likewise and I wanted Owen to do it too. Rooney just isn't likeable and has never done anything marquee against the very best in the world; Charlton world cup winner, Lineker golden boot and scoring huge goals in 1990 as well, Owen a revelation in 98 and in the 5-1 against Germany (as well as European POY).
By all accounts Jack got the personality in the Charlton family. Bobby isn't the nicest man in the world either.
Michael Owen doesn't endear himself much - he has no sense of humour, lives a rich man's life of horses and property and his voice is stupid. But I can't dislike him for that stuff. He was capable of scoring against anyone in the world. Anyone. We were so spoilt to have a steady stream of strikers from Lineker to Owen (in my time) that right now I get goosebumps thinking about going into a big game believing we had a chance. I wish Owen had a shot at the record.
Rooney, meanwhile, screwed up his approach to tournaments in every conceivable way. Injuries, bans, lack of fitness, distractions like an imminent hooker story breaking in the press, even him admitting going to Vegas for a pre-tournament holiday was a mistake in 2012.
He couldn't trap a bag of cement at 2006 or 2010 (Andy Carroll did better in a short cameo against the Italians in 2012 too). His record means absolutely nothing to me. It's cheap. If he and England find any success in 2016 then I won't see it as him proving doubters wrong; it'd be redemption for all his bullshit. And his crap hair.
I thought we were comparing Rooney with Bobby Charlton?
As they said on ITV last night... The real problem we could end up having is who are we going to replace him with when Rooney does eventually retire.
Yes we've had Strikers playing for England yet of late, each of them have played alongside Rooney yet none of them have lasted, maybe Harry Kane will be that player though?
A very good player, but a failure to perform at the highest level, i.e. at World Cups and Euros (apart from 2004) will always prevent him being classified as one of the greats.
Rooney 2012-15 as a top level player has been completely over rated in my opinion. His stock is higher simply due to his previous and the fact there is so little top name English competition at the moment.
Not saying he is poor or anything, but his form in recent years, and his history of performance at major championships mean there is a big cloud over him being an 'England great', despite now being the record goal scorer
Ferguson knew it too, tried to move him on before he retired.
Not that it matters to the record as you still have to put it in the back of the net, but i would be interested to see how many were penalties for both charlton and rooney
It was 49 penalties for Rooney and one deflection against San Marino.
Rooney had one good Euros 14 years Ago since then sent off 2006 no goals 2010 couldn't trap a ball. 2012 average 2014 one Tap in and set up the only other goal we scored.
He's still on 49 anyway. One of the 2004 goals was an o.g. off the keeper's head. Amazed that one was given to Rooney tbh - categorically not his goal
Well the ball must have been going onto the net so it's not an og.
It wasn't going in.
That (loveable) muppet (great British institution) Motson didn't pick up on this, though. Mystifying.
If someone fired a gun at me and I deflected the bullet with my bullet-proof hand, and it hit some other guy in the head, I wouldn't be charged with murder. As such, I don't see why a deflection makes a player responsible for an own goal.
He's still on 49 anyway. One of the 2004 goals was an o.g. off the keeper's head. Amazed that one was given to Rooney tbh - categorically not his goal
Well the ball must have been going onto the net so it's not an og.
It wasn't going in.
That (loveable) muppet (great British institution) Motson didn't pick up on this, though. Mystifying.
If someone fired a gun at me and I deflected the bullet with my bullet-proof hand, and it hit some other guy in the head, I wouldn't be charged with murder. As such, I don't see why a deflection makes a player responsible for an own goal.
What?
The ball hit the post and was going back away from the goal. If the keeper's head hadn't been there it would have rebounded back to the six-yard line. It's an own goal. Is this crazy day or something?
He's still on 49 anyway. One of the 2004 goals was an o.g. off the keeper's head. Amazed that one was given to Rooney tbh - categorically not his goal
Well the ball must have been going onto the net so it's not an og.
It wasn't going in.
That (loveable) muppet (great British institution) Motson didn't pick up on this, though. Mystifying.
If someone fired a gun at me and I deflected the bullet with my bullet-proof hand, and it hit some other guy in the head, I wouldn't be charged with murder. As such, I don't see why a deflection makes a player responsible for an own goal.
What?
The ball hit the post and was going back away from the goal. If the keeper's head hadn't been there it would have rebounded back to the six-yard line. It's an own goal. Is this crazy day or something?
I was generalising! Don't remember the goal being referred to. Still, if Rooney said "I'm going to hit this off the post and via the keeper's head and in..." I'd give it to him!
Comments
On the discussion of who is the greatest striker sorry to be an old fogey but Jimmy Greaves by a country mile unless you have seen him in his pomp you won't understand. Jimmy was lethal, very fast, two footed and passed the ball into the net for me the best English striker ever.
Credit to Rooney though 50 goals is 50 goals so I congratulate him
EDIT: According to Wikipedia 44 goals in 57 matches. Extraordinary
Charlton, Lineker and Greavsie were most definitely in that bracket though!
Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Cavani, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski, Robben, Reus, Aguero, Tevez, Sanchez, Hazard, Pedro, Costa all ahead of him IMO.
Credit where credits due, scoring all those goals in qualifiers must be hard, but I'd rather see him score in games that truly matter
Yes we've had Strikers playing for England yet of late, each of them have played alongside Rooney yet none of them have lasted, maybe Harry Kane will be that player though?
Ago since then sent off 2006 no goals 2010 couldn't trap a ball. 2012 average 2014 one Tap in.
That (loveable) muppet (great British institution) Motson didn't pick up on this, though. Mystifying.
Boro 197 goals in 213 games
Sunderland 54 goals in 61 games
Career 251 goals in 274 games
The ball hit the post and was going back away from the goal. If the keeper's head hadn't been there it would have rebounded back to the six-yard line. It's an own goal. Is this crazy day or something?
had always heard of his great record so assumed was top flight.
Their defences must have been crap if they couldn't get promoted with those goals flying in.
I think what he missed as a player he made up for as a manager