Formula 1 Thread

jackosaysrelax

The scandals combined with the dull racing and a toxic new fan base are going to kill the sport. its heyday under Bernie has long gone. Too many street tracks and the cars sound horrific.  I am hoping a breakaway series happens eventually where we can get back something like we used to have. 

Exiled_Addick

I think the idea that the sport was somehow cleaner under Ecclestone is rose tinted hindsight at its best. Going back to the 80s, the sport has tended to be spells of one team dominance interspersed with the odd patch of teammate rivalry and even rarer patches where two or more teams were genuinely competitive with each other.

Mclaren in the 80s
Williams in the 90s
Ferrari, followed Red Bull, then Merc in 00s and 10s

DamoNorthStand

Business F1 magazine published a whole load of additional claims today including naming Horner’s accuser. The site looks like it’s down at the moment - probably due to the weight of people trying to log in.

I know Tom Rubython quite well. Tom has known Bernie Eccelstone for years. It wouldn’t surprise me if this whole thing has Bernie / associates of Bernie in the background.

Knowing Tom as I do he wouldn’t tend to be easily scared off by Horner / Red Bulls legal advances but let’s see how it develops.

I actually think these are pivotal days for the sport - the knock on effect from all of this will be huge. 

MarcusH26

I think the major domino in this all will be if Ford pull out of the deal for 2026. I know they weren't really building the engines themselves but to lose a massive partnership like that would be bad for the sport as a whole. 

jackosaysrelax

Exiled_Addick said:

I think the idea that the sport was somehow cleaner under Ecclestone is rose tinted hindsight at its best. Going back to the 80s, the sport has tended to be spells of one team dominance interspersed with the odd patch of teammate rivalry and even rarer patches where two or more teams were genuinely competitive with each other.

Mclaren in the 80s
Williams in the 90s
Ferrari, followed Red Bull, then Merc in 00s and 10s

Cleaner. Maybe not. But it was unquestionably better run and a better spectacle.  The 90s was possibly one of the most open eras in the sports history and for me the golden one. No driver won more than two championships in the 90s.

Exiled_Addick

jackosaysrelax said:

Exiled_Addick said:

I think the idea that the sport was somehow cleaner under Ecclestone is rose tinted hindsight at its best. Going back to the 80s, the sport has tended to be spells of one team dominance interspersed with the odd patch of teammate rivalry and even rarer patches where two or more teams were genuinely competitive with each other.

Mclaren in the 80s
Williams in the 90s
Ferrari, followed Red Bull, then Merc in 00s and 10s

Cleaner. Maybe not. But it was unquestionably better run and a better spectacle.  The 90s was possibly one of the most open eras in the sports history and for me the golden one. No driver won more than two championships in the 90s.

Mclaren won in 90 and 91, which was a hangover of their 80s dominance and part of a run of 7 titles in 8 seasons. Williams then won 4 of the next 6, yes with different drivers but that was a bit of an oddity of them keeping switching drivers for various contractual and personality reasons - they were still the dominant team of that era.

It was a more competitive era than what went immediately before or after, but still a lot of times there was a strong favourite each season. I think Red Bull might be the furthest ahead anyone has ever been right now, and the difference between Max and Checco doesn't help, but a team dominating it is not so far out of the norm historically. And in terms of spectacle, I would argue Hamilton vs Verstappen in the last season of the old regs was one of the best seasons of sport I have ever seen - sport "period", not just F1. That's what makes the sudden switch of competitiveness under the new regs so frustrating.

Another thing that doesn't help - modern F1 cars are too reliable. In the old days, even the top teams could go bang at any time and the jeopardy is lost now.

Hal1x

Exiled_Addick said:

jackosaysrelax said:

Exiled_Addick said:

I think the idea that the sport was somehow cleaner under Ecclestone is rose tinted hindsight at its best. Going back to the 80s, the sport has tended to be spells of one team dominance interspersed with the odd patch of teammate rivalry and even rarer patches where two or more teams were genuinely competitive with each other.

Mclaren in the 80s
Williams in the 90s
Ferrari, followed Red Bull, then Merc in 00s and 10s

Cleaner. Maybe not. But it was unquestionably better run and a better spectacle.  The 90s was possibly one of the most open eras in the sports history and for me the golden one. No driver won more than two championships in the 90s.

Mclaren won in 90 and 91, which was a hangover of their 80s dominance and part of a run of 7 titles in 8 seasons. Williams then won 4 of the next 6, yes with different drivers but that was a bit of an oddity of them keeping switching drivers for various contractual and personality reasons - they were still the dominant team of that era.

It was a more competitive era than what went immediately before or after, but still a lot of times there was a strong favourite each season. I think Red Bull might be the furthest ahead anyone has ever been right now, and the difference between Max and Checco doesn't help, but a team dominating it is not so far out of the norm historically. And in terms of spectacle, I would argue Hamilton vs Verstappen in the last season of the old regs was one of the best seasons of sport I have ever seen - sport "period", not just F1. That's what makes the sudden switch of competitiveness under the new regs so frustrating.

Another thing that doesn't help - modern F1 cars are too reliable. In the old days, even the top teams could go bang at any time and the jeopardy is lost now.

You are right about retirements the '85 San Marino Grand Prix had 25 starters and only 5 finishers.

And in Australia '95 there were 23 starters, Hill won by 2 laps, 5th was 3 laps behind, 7th 4 laps, and 8th and last was Bertrand Gachot 5 laps behind. Thrill a minute!

Carter

I cant remember the years specifically and I could be and probably am wrong but when I think drivers such as Alain Prost, Aryton Senna, Nigel Mansell, Gerhard Bergher, Michael Schumacher, Nelson Piquet, Eddie Irvine, Jaques Villeneueve all or most being on a track at the same time, they were far stronger personalities for one but also the jeopardy someone else mentioned of the cars. The things would explode at any given second! 

A lot changed after San Marino and for good reason in terms of driver safety but the tracks made for more overtakes and drivers seemed a bit more ballsy. 

A lot of that is probably nostalgia and like anyones dad saying music nowadays is just noise and not as good as in their day but I believe the sport was a lot more fun than it is now where lots of rich and well known personalities want to have their picture taken and be interviewed on the grid or in the paddock yet the event as a spectacle is just a procession 

Hal1x

I used to like it when
1/ The cars were more different, when you had cars like these in the same race (1983)

Hal1x

2/ Drivers were sometimes completely useless, and different,  1982 again 42 Drivers!

Exiled_Addick

Oh it was definitely more fun. I think that goes for a lot of sports before money “ruined” them. The media don’t help either. Overtaking was easier back then too - cars were half the size and more about mechanical grip than aerodynamics.

jackosaysrelax

Exiled_Addick said:

jackosaysrelax said:

Exiled_Addick said:

I think the idea that the sport was somehow cleaner under Ecclestone is rose tinted hindsight at its best. Going back to the 80s, the sport has tended to be spells of one team dominance interspersed with the odd patch of teammate rivalry and even rarer patches where two or more teams were genuinely competitive with each other.

Mclaren in the 80s
Williams in the 90s
Ferrari, followed Red Bull, then Merc in 00s and 10s

Cleaner. Maybe not. But it was unquestionably better run and a better spectacle.  The 90s was possibly one of the most open eras in the sports history and for me the golden one. No driver won more than two championships in the 90s.

Mclaren won in 90 and 91, which was a hangover of their 80s dominance and part of a run of 7 titles in 8 seasons. Williams then won 4 of the next 6, yes with different drivers but that was a bit of an oddity of them keeping switching drivers for various contractual and personality reasons - they were still the dominant team of that era.

It was a more competitive era than what went immediately before or after, but still a lot of times there was a strong favourite each season. I think Red Bull might be the furthest ahead anyone has ever been right now, and the difference between Max and Checco doesn't help, but a team dominating it is not so far out of the norm historically. And in terms of spectacle, I would argue Hamilton vs Verstappen in the last season of the old regs was one of the best seasons of sport I have ever seen - sport "period", not just F1. That's what makes the sudden switch of competitiveness under the new regs so frustrating.

Another thing that doesn't help - modern F1 cars are too reliable. In the old days, even the top teams could go bang at any time and the jeopardy is lost now.

dominant teams yes. But not drivers. I have been to over 21 races some very famous all over the world. The cars are not what they were and the major factor for me is the sound. The spectacle of the event from a fans perspective has gone down hill massively as well. The off track activities at silverstone are shocking now in comparrison to abu dhabi. ( I know there is a difference in funding). The reliability of cars was a great thing back then as well. It added that extra element of unpredictability. Now you sort of know after the first corner what will happen.  This sport needs to fall in all honesty in order for something to rise from the ashes. As I have said before I believe at A1 GP revival could put F1 in a box. 

MarcusH26

There was rumours 12 months or so ago of an A1GP revival but I haven't heard anything else about it since? I thought it was a great concept but seemed to have questionable financials. 

https://www.autosport.com/general/news/the-ambitious-plans-behind-the-a1-gp-revival/10476234/

Stuart_the_Red

Sorry about the source, but I’m loving the Mail’s coverage of this story (they have at least 10 different stories on their pages!).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13159177/Red-Bull-Jos-Verstappen-Christian-Horner-woman-texts-sexting.html

jackosaysrelax

MarcusH26 said:

There was rumours 12 months or so ago of an A1GP revival but I haven't heard anything else about it since? I thought it was a great concept but seemed to have questionable financials. 

https://www.autosport.com/general/news/the-ambitious-plans-behind-the-a1-gp-revival/10476234/

Yeah must admit I haven't heard much more. But to start a series takes time so you Would have to imagine things were taking place behind the scenes. Looking back te original a1 was brilliant. 

jackosaysrelax

jackosaysrelax said:

MarcusH26 said:

There was rumours 12 months or so ago of an A1GP revival but I haven't heard anything else about it since? I thought it was a great concept but seemed to have questionable financials. 

https://www.autosport.com/general/news/the-ambitious-plans-behind-the-a1-gp-revival/10476234/

Yeah must admit I haven't heard much more. But to start a series takes time so you Would have to imagine things were taking place behind the scenes. Looking back te original a1 was brilliant. 

I will say as well that it is probably the right time to launch a series like this. Withf1 on the slide it could be the series real fans need. I guess we will know more in December. 

ForeverAddickted

Callum Ilott stepping in for Arrows Mclaren @ St. Petersberg for the first IndyCar race of the season, what with Malukas recovering from injury.

Hopefully we'll see him back in that Series on a F/T quite soon, and pissing off Canapino fans even more on a regular basis again - Be good to see how he gets on with a much better team this weekend.

Carter

I remember watching the first few A1 races, Pique won all of them as I recall. Having all of the cars the same is the key. Best driver wins in theory 

DamoNorthStand

Carter said:

I remember watching the first few A1 races, Pique won all of them as I recall. Having all of the cars the same is the key. Best driver wins in theory 

Whilst I fully agree F1 is broke, the issue is we already have a series like that laid out above. It’s called Formula 2 or 3.

The point of F1 is the teams are allowed to innovate. The issue is the cost cap and engine freezes make it impossible for anyone to catch up over a 5 year cycle or so.

jackosaysrelax

Carter said:

I remember watching the first few A1 races, Pique won all of them as I recall. Having all of the cars the same is the key. Best driver wins in theory 

The cars the first few years were excellent. Hope they go back to something similar as it was a great series . Was very popular as well as the grandstands looked pretty packed. 

ForeverAddickted

Better from the Premas, especially Bearman in Free Practice today

Hopefully that'll be replicated in the rest of the weekend.

ForeverAddickted

The woman who made the accusations against Horner has now been suspended by Red Bull - Probably done her a favour in a small way getting her out of there!!

sam3110

That is absolutely wild, because that insinuates that she made the whole thing up, doctored a load of things and tried to get Horner "cancelled"

Chizz

Let's suspend the woman who made a complaint about the boss.  That should make things better, all-round, and show that we really are on top of things as an inclusive, welcoming, safe environment for anyone to work in.  

Actually, no, better still, let's wait and do it on International Women's Day. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68501426 

BigRedEvil

Chizz said:

Let's suspend the woman who made a complaint about the boss.  That should make things better, all-round, and show that we really are on top of things as an inclusive, welcoming, safe environment for anyone to work in.  

Actually, no, better still, let's wait and do it on International Women's Day. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68501426 

Yeah bonkers PR exercise by Red Bull, they are going to fall apart too many egos involved at the top with different agendas 

Chris_from_Sidcup

ForeverAddickted said:

The woman who made the accusations against Horner has now been suspended by Red Bull - Probably done her a favour in a small way getting her out of there!!

Well if the stories from earlier this week are led to be believed then that is not going to impress Jos Verstappen.

DamoNorthStand

Good god that’s a PR horror show. Make a complaint about harassment and get suspended?!

Chris_from_Sidcup

sam3110 said:

That is absolutely wild, because that insinuates that she made the whole thing up, doctored a load of things and tried to get Horner "cancelled"

Maybe that's the angle they're going to take to try and brush it under the carpet - "it's all lies".

Exiled_Addick

Given the way they have often treated their drivers, it’s not really a surprise their HR practices towards more run of the mill employees leaves something to be desired. They just all seem such a loathsome bunch in so many ways. And their drink is disgusting. I hope Newey decides he’s better than that, leaves, and it all collapses the whole team. They wouldn’t be missed. 

ForeverAddickted

GO ON THE BEARMAN!!!!!!!!