Was struck yesterday by all the empty seats. This runs deeper than just bad performances by the team. So much bad feeling towards the Belgiums and rightly so. !
The thing with a poor inadequate, limited Side that produces rubbish performances, is that you usually believe that something is being done to make it change for the better. Unfortunately that is not the case at charlton, RD seems happy to let this ship slip in total chaos and oblivion.
Was struck yesterday by all the empty seats. This runs deeper than just bad performances by the team. So much bad feeling towards the Belgiums and rightly so. !
There is only one Belgium.
Don't think you'll get much take up with that song Arthur ;-)
Was struck yesterday by all the empty seats. This runs deeper than just bad performances by the team. So much bad feeling towards the Belgiums and rightly so. !
There is only one Belgium.
Don't think you'll get much take up with that song Arthur ;-)
Yup, even with the distribution of grammar cards to the crowd, I can't see it ever becoming popular!
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Yeah you're right, but my point is when you go strip back to our hardcore support, the real die hards, there's not as much in it as some Charlton may think.
Re your second point agree 100%. F*** me those stripey ****'s make my skin itch.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Yeah you're right, but my point is when you go strip back to our hardcore support, the real die hards, there's not as much in it as some Charlton may think.
Re your second point agree 100%. F*** me those stripey ****'s make my skin itch.
The way we are going you may be right. Fully 4,000 who had paid tickets gave it a miss yesterday. It's evident from the numbers actually in the home stands that we have bugger-all walk-up or the number of absentees is even higher. Even our most loyal fans are apathetic and thousands have effectively given-up. I am teetering on the brink myself and will gladly support any boycott, largely because I will be relieved of the personal pressure to show-up and have to suffer another 90 minutes of watching us playing second fiddle because our squad is too small and we have a Belgian chump on the touch-lines who can't influence proceedings. I'm all for a 'pub-in' where we still go for pre-match drink but stay all afternoon and cheer ourselves that we aren't suffering quite like the 'Suffragettes' who refuse to acknowledge the direction we are heading at speed.
I wonder whether there is any way that those season ticket holders currently boycotting games at home could be "identified".
By that, I mean "stand up & show themselves " followed by a clear & concise personal statement as to the reasons why they are taking this drastic action.
At present, 3000 is a number.
Somehow, that number needs to be to be shown as not merely a percentage of our support but as individual fans who love our Club enough to give their hard earned money up front, before a ball is kicked in order to reserve their place at all home matches until the following May. Quite a commitment, especially when you consider that (possibly) the majority of supporters buy not only for themselves but also for family members.....and in these tough times financially for many.
Their decisions to boycott will not have been taken lightly.
And for many, a huge hole will have appeared in their weekends.
But the disenchantment with/detachment from their Club will have reached the point of, possibly no return.....at least until the current regime has left the building with their experiment between their legs & sanity is once more established in SE7.
Each of these fans will have their own story to relate.
And maybe, just maybe, said stories could hit a nerve somewhere with someone.......
.....enough to finally take on board that there is a REAL problem.
Having suffered six poor seasons out of seven before RD took over, I was looking forward to a new era with RD and his investment in the club. Having spent another two years being very disappointed with the football I am not going to renew my ST next year I really feel gutted but apart from some very talented youth players there are to many players at the Valley that don't have the ability or desire to wear the shirt. I will be going to Welling next season but my heart will always be at the Valley,
The only thing that will change my mind will be the recruitment of a decent long term manager and more investment in the team. Until then I have no desire to protest because I don't think everyone protesting is doing it for the same reasons.
Had a spat with a fan who sits behind me in the West Lower yesterday.
I was supporting the 2% just like many thousands and he told me to sit down, be quiet and that I am doing more damage to the club as I was obstructing his view.
Really pissed me off. Who the fuck was he, was typically one of the clueless lot who are so blinded to what's actually going on at our club, thinking everything is so perfectly rosey.
If he doesn't like the protest or disagrees, that's his opinion, but to pipe up the way he did, absolute prat.
I always support the team no matter what, but I can't say one part of me enjoys going to watch us play anymore and it's all because of this current ownership.
It's clear for all to see how many people don't bother anymore, the ground is so empty it's rather embarrassing for a championship side who used to be in the premier league for a while, 10 years ago.
Had a spat with a fan who sits behind me in the West Lower yesterday.
I was supporting the 2% just like many thousands and he told me to sit down, be quiet and that I am doing more damage to the club as I was obstructing his view.
Really pissed me off. Who the fuck was he, was typically one of the clueless lot who are so blinded to what's actually going on at our club, thinking everything is so perfectly rosey.
If he doesn't like the protest or disagrees, that's his opinion, but to pipe up the way he did, absolute prat.
I always support the team no matter what, but I can't say one part of me enjoys going to watch us play anymore and it's all because of this current ownership.
It's clear for all to see how many people don't bother anymore, the ground is so empty it's rather embarrassing for a championship side who used to be in the premier league for a while, 10 years ago.
Unfortunately I know a few that still have their 'head in the sand'. It is amazing how some people still cannot see any real problems.
I cannot see how the Belgians can be supported anymore.
I wonder whether there is any way that those season ticket holders currently boycotting games at home could be "identified".
By that, I mean "stand up & show themselves " followed by a clear & concise personal statement as to the reasons why they are taking this drastic action.
At present, 3000 is a number.
Somehow, that number needs to be to be shown as not merely a percentage of our support but as individual fans who love our Club enough to give their hard earned money up front, before a ball is kicked in order to reserve their place at all home matches until the following May. Quite a commitment, especially when you consider that (possibly) the majority of supporters buy not only for themselves but also for family members.....and in these tough times financially for many.
Their decisions to boycott will not have been taken lightly.
And for many, a huge hole will have appeared in their weekends.
But the disenchantment with/detachment from their Club will have reached the point of, possibly no return.....at least until the current regime has left the building with their experiment between their legs & sanity is once more established in SE7.
Each of these fans will have their own story to relate.
And maybe, just maybe, said stories could hit a nerve somewhere with someone.......
The club also know how many people are not attending.
Advertised gate minus away support minus paid for game minus what would be season ticket holders attending.
The difference would/should be season ticket holders not attending.
Had a spat with a fan who sits behind me in the West Lower yesterday.
I was supporting the 2% just like many thousands and he told me to sit down, be quiet and that I am doing more damage to the club as I was obstructing his view.
Really pissed me off. Who the fuck was he, was typically one of the clueless lot who are so blinded to what's actually going on at our club, thinking everything is so perfectly rosey.
If he doesn't like the protest or disagrees, that's his opinion, but to pipe up the way he did, absolute prat.
I always support the team no matter what, but I can't say one part of me enjoys going to watch us play anymore and it's all because of this current ownership.
It's clear for all to see how many people don't bother anymore, the ground is so empty it's rather embarrassing for a championship side who used to be in the premier league for a while, 10 years ago.
Sadly if those that are still coming are discouraged to turn up, for any reason, the problem gets worse. Those that don't want to protest but are still coming after all the rubbish we have seen I would have thought upsetting them is counter productive.
I fear that many of those that don't protest will be the only ones coming in two years time!
I wonder whether there is any way that those season ticket holders currently boycotting games at home could be "identified".
By that, I mean "stand up & show themselves " followed by a clear & concise personal statement as to the reasons why they are taking this drastic action.
At present, 3000 is a number.
Somehow, that number needs to be to be shown as not merely a percentage of our support but as individual fans who love our Club enough to give their hard earned money up front, before a ball is kicked in order to reserve their place at all home matches until the following May. Quite a commitment, especially when you consider that (possibly) the majority of supporters buy not only for themselves but also for family members.....and in these tough times financially for many.
Their decisions to boycott will not have been taken lightly.
And for many, a huge hole will have appeared in their weekends.
But the disenchantment with/detachment from their Club will have reached the point of, possibly no return.....at least until the current regime has left the building with their experiment between their legs & sanity is once more established in SE7.
Each of these fans will have their own story to relate.
And maybe, just maybe, said stories could hit a nerve somewhere with someone.......
The club also know how many people are not attending.
Advertised gate minus away support minus paid for game minus what would be season ticket holders attending.
The difference would/should be season ticket holders not attending.</blockquote
Had a spat with a fan who sits behind me in the West Lower yesterday.
I was supporting the 2% just like many thousands and he told me to sit down, be quiet and that I am doing more damage to the club as I was obstructing his view.
Really pissed me off. Who the fuck was he, was typically one of the clueless lot who are so blinded to what's actually going on at our club, thinking everything is so perfectly rosey.
If he doesn't like the protest or disagrees, that's his opinion, but to pipe up the way he did, absolute prat.
I always support the team no matter what, but I can't say one part of me enjoys going to watch us play anymore and it's all because of this current ownership.
It's clear for all to see how many people don't bother anymore, the ground is so empty it's rather embarrassing for a championship side who used to be in the premier league for a while, 10 years ago.
Sadly if those that are still coming are discouraged to turn up, for any reason, the problem gets worse. Those that don't want to protest but are still coming after all the rubbish we have seen I would have thought upsetting them is counter productive.
I fear that many of those that don't protest will be the only ones coming in two years time!
The point wasn't about protesting or agreeing with it or not. The fact was that I am trying to be one of many fans trying to stand up for what is happening at our club before it gets run into the ground.
I am fully supportive of the team and everyone around me was taking my view on the matter, he didn't like the fact I was standing up obstructing his view, telling me to be quiet, when all he does is go on about how good things are with the investment when it's so blindingly obvious that we are on a serious decline.
5 managers in less than 2 years, Ben Roberts eager to leave and tells his story, Morrison's recent interview, Chapple leaving without any proper recognition, the lies we have been fed, the fact the owner tried picking Powell's team, the yes men. No matter how long or far back this goes; these are good people who at the time had Charlton's best interests at heart, just like us supporters.
To me it's clear that the current ownership do not and unfortunately some people are so stuck in their ways thinking everything is still all fine when it's clearly not, that's what is damaging to the club.
I said I always support the team, by attendance, by financial and by vocal support. But at the same time I am fully entitled to feel disconnected and not enjoy going to games under this current ownership. I am tired of the lies and rubbish we constantly are being fed and I want that to change to help us get our Charlton back.
What I don't appreciate is being verbally attacked at the game by a stuck up prat who always seems to think he is above everyone because someone being me, is standing up for something I am passionate about.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
In answer to Fanny's question I am a season ticket holder (two tickets in fact) and missed it on Saturday for family reasons.
The thing is I could, and at one time would, have dug my heels in and moved things around familywise, although it would have created some hassle, but really had no inclination to bother.
Yes people will say I cut my nose off to spite my face as I've already paid for the tickets but I spent longer with my little grandsons which you cannot put a price on and next season, as it stands, no way will I bother to renew.
I have no inclination to go anywhere I am not welcome and Ms Meire has made it clear that those whom have followed the Club for 50 plus years and are sixty plus are unwelcome.
My family cannot understand my recent ambivalence to Charlton Athletic given the crap I've insisted on going to watch when able since 1963 but Katrien you and your Sugar Daddy have killed it for me.
In answer to Fanny's question I am a season ticket holder (two tickets in fact) and missed it on Saturday for family reasons.
The thing is I could, and at one time would, have dug my heels in and moved things around familywise, although it would have created some hassle, but really had no inclination to bother.
Yes people will say I cut my nose off to spite my face as I've already paid for the tickets but I spent longer with my little grandsons which you cannot put a price on and next season, as it stands, no way will I bother to renew.
I have no inclination to go anywhere I am not welcome and Ms Meire has made it clear that those whom have followed the Club for 50 plus years and are sixty plus are unwelcome.
My family cannot understand my recent ambivalence to Charlton Athletic given the crap I've insisted on going to watch when able since 1963 but Katrien you and your Sugar Daddy have killed it for me.
Thank You.
Would you be prepared to put that in writing for forwarding to the Club, alongside others, Len ?
In answer to Fanny's question I am a season ticket holder (two tickets in fact) and missed it on Saturday for family reasons.
The thing is I could, and at one time would, have dug my heels in and moved things around familywise, although it would have created some hassle, but really had no inclination to bother.
Yes people will say I cut my nose off to spite my face as I've already paid for the tickets but I spent longer with my little grandsons which you cannot put a price on and next season, as it stands, no way will I bother to renew.
I have no inclination to go anywhere I am not welcome and Ms Meire has made it clear that those whom have followed the Club for 50 plus years and are sixty plus are unwelcome.
My family cannot understand my recent ambivalence to Charlton Athletic given the crap I've insisted on going to watch when able since 1963 but Katrien you and your Sugar Daddy have killed it for me.
Thank You.
Would you be prepared to put that in writing for forwarding to the Club, alongside others, Len ?
Certainly if you think it would help. Might need a little 'gentrification' though!
In answer to Fanny's question I am a season ticket holder (two tickets in fact) and missed it on Saturday for family reasons.
The thing is I could, and at one time would, have dug my heels in and moved things around familywise, although it would have created some hassle, but really had no inclination to bother.
Yes people will say I cut my nose off to spite my face as I've already paid for the tickets but I spent longer with my little grandsons which you cannot put a price on and next season, as it stands, no way will I bother to renew.
I have no inclination to go anywhere I am not welcome and Ms Meire has made it clear that those whom have followed the Club for 50 plus years and are sixty plus are unwelcome.
My family cannot understand my recent ambivalence to Charlton Athletic given the crap I've insisted on going to watch when able since 1963 but Katrien you and your Sugar Daddy have killed it for me.
Thank You.
Would you be prepared to put that in writing for forwarding to the Club, alongside others, Len ?
Certainly if you think it would help. Might need a little 'gentrification' though!
Make sure you send it special delivery and put a self addressed envelope in it as well.
Just in case they say they never received it.
Seriously, sad times but she does not seem to care.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
Most of your numbers are duplicates... season ticket holders buying an extra ticket for themselves on the door after calling up to find out their seat's been sold ;-)
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
Very selective use of stats, ignoring recent seasons 'because we give lots of free tickets away'. Ignores years away at Selhurst/Wham, small capacity when back at The Valley, etc. And any other season which doesn't fit the argument (e.g. 1978-79 when our gates were 37% higher yet we were both struggling in Div 2).
That said, plenty (like me) who followed us in the 60-80s did not strut around thinking we were a bigger club than Millwall, our glory days were well behind us.. anyone looking objectively would put has in the same bracket, together with Fulham, QPR & Palace, depending on division and success or lack of.
But that was then and this is now. In recent years more than a few Millwall fans seem to accept the 'small club' tag, and yo-yoing between D2 and D3, and with this (unlike us) seemingly happy to play in a half-full stadium rather than find creative ways of filling it..
I am still attending, not sure why, all the joy has been sucked out of the club.
Len Glover's post is a sad reflection of the state of our club.
Will I renew next year? Doubt it, but it is hard to cut the cord.
I am watching a slow motion car crash. I really shouldn't watch, I won't like outcome, but somehow I cannot look away.
Saturday was yet another new low, we lost 3-0, again, to a side that has in spades all the qualities that we lack. The only positive I can make out from Saturday was that this latest drubbing wasn't as bad as the previous 3-0 reverses. That folks is how far we have sunk.
In answer to Fanny's question I am sure that our CEO has a complete breakdown of how many stay at home ST holders there are at each game, and who knows with the new entry system, who those people are. Clearly these Stats are not ringing any alarm bells as we see no action to arrest the slide.
Its just so depressing.
Oh and just to rub it in, because of Sky, all my work mates know how shit we are. The pelters I am getting at work you wouldn't believe. Mostly of course from the glory boy supporters. The Millwall fans just give me knowing smiles
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
Why are you all talking like this when Katrien is going to bring us 20K. Whats that you say, talking through her backside ? Couldn't be any worse than what comes out of her mouth.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
There's little doubt that Millwall were a bigger club than Charlton until the Glikstens arrived at The Valley in the early 1930s. There's a good reason for this - they were founded 20 years earlier and had 22 seasons in the Southern League, which was a substantial competition, before joining the League in 1920.
Charlton had one - yes, one - before joining the League in 1921, so their rise from local junior football before WW1 was much more dramatic and didn't allow them to build up the same following. In fact, the club was very weak financially during the 1920s. It's a bit silly, however, to read across from the 1920s to make a present day evaluation.
Basically, Millwall got left behind in the 1930s while Charlton became a substantial club. The late 60s-early 70s stats prove very little, given that Millwall had a promotion near-miss in 1971/72 and Charlton were relegated. Charlton were in long-term decline having been out of the top flight for ten years, Millwall's fortunes were rising - they hadn't been at that level for more than 30 years.
All the seasons from 1989-94 are affected by Charlton playing elsewhere or back at The Valley having a severely restricted capacity of about 8,000. Once that ended, Charlton pulled away again.
Yes, since the 30s Charlton have generally been more successful than Millwall and that is a large part of the reason they have been able to attract higher crowds, but similar factors apply to Millwall before then. You can't count one in and then discount the other in order to make your point.
This isn't meant as a dig but although you like to label us with the 'Smallwall' tag, I reckon that once you strip both our support back to the bare bones, including the 'Johnny-come-latelys' who turned up during your Prem years (and we all know those type of fans don't have any staying power) then I reckon our hardcore support isn't too dissimilar.
Think ours is higher but can't be bothered to check historical stats ...all I do know is that neither of our clubs/fans are anything like Palaarse and for that we should both be truly grateful.
Someone on Millwall Online, (and with more time on their hands than me!) saw this post and asked me to post this re size of hardcore support. Fairly interesting...
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
There's little doubt that Millwall were a bigger club than Charlton until the Glikstens arrived at The Valley in the early 1930s. There's a good reason for this - they were founded 20 years earlier and had 22 seasons in the Southern League, which was a substantial competition, before joining the League in 1920.
I'm unsure what you mean by Charlton "failed to get into the league in 1921" (i.e. for season 1920/21). They didn't apply, having only turned professional in 1920 - 30 (THIRTY) years after Millwall.
Charlton had one - yes, one - season in the Southern League before joining the League in 1921, so their rise from local junior football before WW1 was much more dramatic and didn't allow them to build up the same following. In fact, the club was very weak financially during the 1920s. It's a bit silly, however, to read across from the 1920s to make a present day evaluation.
Basically, Millwall got left behind in the 1930s while Charlton became a substantial club. The late 60s-early 70s stats prove very little, given that Millwall had a promotion near-miss in 1971/72 and Charlton were relegated. Charlton were in long-term decline having been out of the top flight for ten years, Millwall's fortunes were rising - they hadn't been at that level for more than 30 years.
All the seasons from 1989-94 are affected by Charlton playing elsewhere or back at The Valley having a severely restricted capacity of about 8,000. Once that ended, Charlton pulled away again.
Yes, since the 30s Charlton have generally been more successful than Millwall and that is a large part of the reason they have been able to attract higher crowds, but similar factors apply to Millwall before then. You can't count one in and then discount the other in order to make your point. Yet you rely on it in 13 out of 21 seasons quoted. The truth is that the clubs' early history wasn't similar.
Comments
Belgians.
Re your second point agree 100%. F*** me those stripey ****'s make my skin itch.
By that, I mean "stand up & show themselves " followed by a clear & concise personal statement as to the reasons why they are taking this drastic action.
At present, 3000 is a number.
Somehow, that number needs to be to be shown as not merely a percentage of our support but as individual fans who love our Club enough to give their hard earned money up front, before a ball is kicked in order to reserve their place at all home matches until the following May. Quite a commitment, especially when you consider that (possibly) the majority of supporters buy not only for themselves but also for family members.....and in these tough times financially for many.
Their decisions to boycott will not have been taken lightly.
And for many, a huge hole will have appeared in their weekends.
But the disenchantment with/detachment from their Club will have reached the point of, possibly no return.....at least until the current regime has left the building with their experiment between their legs & sanity is once more established in SE7.
Each of these fans will have their own story to relate.
And maybe, just maybe, said stories could hit a nerve somewhere with someone.......
.....enough to finally take on board that there is a REAL problem.
I really feel gutted but apart from some very talented youth players there are to many players at the Valley that don't have the ability or desire to wear the shirt. I will be going to Welling next season but my heart will always be at the Valley,
The only thing that will change my mind will be the recruitment of a decent long term manager and more investment in the team.
Until then I have no desire to protest because I don't think everyone protesting is doing it for the same reasons.
I was supporting the 2% just like many thousands and he told me to sit down, be quiet and that I am doing more damage to the club as I was obstructing his view.
Really pissed me off. Who the fuck was he, was typically one of the clueless lot who are so blinded to what's actually going on at our club, thinking everything is so perfectly rosey.
If he doesn't like the protest or disagrees, that's his opinion, but to pipe up the way he did, absolute prat.
I always support the team no matter what, but I can't say one part of me enjoys going to watch us play anymore and it's all because of this current ownership.
It's clear for all to see how many people don't bother anymore, the ground is so empty it's rather embarrassing for a championship side who used to be in the premier league for a while, 10 years ago.
I cannot see how the Belgians can be supported anymore.
Advertised gate minus away support minus paid for game minus what would be season ticket holders attending.
The difference would/should be season ticket holders not attending.
I fear that many of those that don't protest will be the only ones coming in two years time!
I am fully supportive of the team and everyone around me was taking my view on the matter, he didn't like the fact I was standing up obstructing his view, telling me to be quiet, when all he does is go on about how good things are with the investment when it's so blindingly obvious that we are on a serious decline.
5 managers in less than 2 years, Ben Roberts eager to leave and tells his story, Morrison's recent interview, Chapple leaving without any proper recognition, the lies we have been fed, the fact the owner tried picking Powell's team, the yes men. No matter how long or far back this goes; these are good people who at the time had Charlton's best interests at heart, just like us supporters.
To me it's clear that the current ownership do not and unfortunately some people are so stuck in their ways thinking everything is still all fine when it's clearly not, that's what is damaging to the club.
I said I always support the team, by attendance, by financial and by vocal support. But at the same time I am fully entitled to feel disconnected and not enjoy going to games under this current ownership. I am tired of the lies and rubbish we constantly are being fed and I want that to change to help us get our Charlton back.
What I don't appreciate is being verbally attacked at the game by a stuck up prat who always seems to think he is above everyone because someone being me, is standing up for something I am passionate about.
This is the best comparison between the two's hardcore support...they show the occasions when both clubs were in a similar period of their histories:
1921: Millwall 18,762; Charlton failed to get into League.
1922: Millwall 17,524; Charlton 9,380.
1923: Millwall 17,238; Charlton 8,165
1924: Millwall 16,671; Charlton 6,745
1925: Millwall 15,286; Charlton 9,750.
1926: Millwall 14,953; Charlton 7,403.
1927: Millwall 14,173; Charlton 6,951.
1928: Millwall 17,690; Charlton 8,734.
1929: Millwall 20,306; Charlton 11.478
1930: Millwall 18,865; Charlton 13,666
1931: Millwall 14,445; Charlton 10,875
1932: Millwall 14,073; Charlton 11,929
1933: Millwall 13,807; Charlton 12,938
1967: Millwall 16,112; Charlton 12,611
1968: Millwall 13,474; Charlton 13,945
1969: Millwall 15,343; Charlton 17,973
1970: Millwall 11,672; Charlton 12,693
1971: Millwall 9,835; Charlton 10,981
1972: Millwall 16,210; Charlton 10,430
1989: Millwall 15,660; Charlton 9,398 (Selhurst)
1990: Millwall 12,438; Charlton 10,748 (Selhurst)
1991: Millwall 11,113; Charlton 6,548 (Selhurst)
1992: Millwall 7,907; Charlton 6,786
1993: Millwall 9,189; Charlton 7,005
1994: Millwall 10,100; Charlton 8,056
1995: Millwall 7,687; Charlton 10,211
1996: Millwall 9,559; Charlton 11,185
So, Millwall have had the higher average attendance on 21 of the 27 occasions that the clubs have had a similar period of history. And of the other 6 seasons there is barely anything in it..literally a couple hundred in some cases...factor in the fact they get more floating fans & away fans at The Valley suggests our hardcore is actually a lot more robust than theirs.
The only time they get better crowds is when they are an established top flight club or after a period of success - well, derr!
Read more: http://www.millwall.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=118352&posts=9#ixzz3syNFhmpr
The thing is I could, and at one time would, have dug my heels in and moved things around familywise, although it would have created some hassle, but really had no inclination to bother.
Yes people will say I cut my nose off to spite my face as I've already paid for the tickets but I spent longer with my little grandsons which you cannot put a price on and next season, as it stands, no way will I bother to renew.
I have no inclination to go anywhere I am not welcome and Ms Meire has made it clear that those whom have followed the Club for 50 plus years and are sixty plus are unwelcome.
My family cannot understand my recent ambivalence to Charlton Athletic given the crap I've insisted on going to watch when able since 1963 but Katrien you and your Sugar Daddy have killed it for me.
Thank You.
Just in case they say they never received it.
Seriously, sad times but she does not seem to care.
That said, plenty (like me) who followed us in the 60-80s did not strut around thinking we were a bigger club than Millwall, our glory days were well behind us.. anyone looking objectively would put has in the same bracket, together with Fulham, QPR & Palace, depending on division and success or lack of.
But that was then and this is now. In recent years more than a few Millwall fans seem to accept the 'small club' tag, and yo-yoing between D2 and D3, and with this (unlike us) seemingly happy to play in a half-full stadium rather than find creative ways of filling it..
Len Glover's post is a sad reflection of the state of our club.
Will I renew next year? Doubt it, but it is hard to cut the cord.
I am watching a slow motion car crash. I really shouldn't watch, I won't like outcome, but somehow I cannot look away.
Saturday was yet another new low, we lost 3-0, again, to a side that has in spades all the qualities that we lack. The only positive I can make out from Saturday was that this latest drubbing wasn't as bad as the previous 3-0 reverses. That folks is how far we have sunk.
In answer to Fanny's question I am sure that our CEO has a complete breakdown of how many stay at home ST holders there are at each game, and who knows with the new entry system, who those people are. Clearly these Stats are not ringing any alarm bells as we see no action to arrest the slide.
Its just so depressing.
Oh and just to rub it in, because of Sky, all my work mates know how shit we are. The pelters I am getting at work you wouldn't believe. Mostly of course from the glory boy supporters. The Millwall fans just give me knowing smiles
You're obsessed you sad little man.
Charlton had one - yes, one - before joining the League in 1921, so their rise from local junior football before WW1 was much more dramatic and didn't allow them to build up the same following. In fact, the club was very weak financially during the 1920s. It's a bit silly, however, to read across from the 1920s to make a present day evaluation.
Basically, Millwall got left behind in the 1930s while Charlton became a substantial club. The late 60s-early 70s stats prove very little, given that Millwall had a promotion near-miss in 1971/72 and Charlton were relegated. Charlton were in long-term decline having been out of the top flight for ten years, Millwall's fortunes were rising - they hadn't been at that level for more than 30 years.
All the seasons from 1989-94 are affected by Charlton playing elsewhere or back at The Valley having a severely restricted capacity of about 8,000. Once that ended, Charlton pulled away again.
Yes, since the 30s Charlton have generally been more successful than Millwall and that is a large part of the reason they have been able to attract higher crowds, but similar factors apply to Millwall before then. You can't count one in and then discount the other in order to make your point.
I'm unsure what you mean by Charlton "failed to get into the league in 1921" (i.e. for season 1920/21). They didn't apply, having only turned professional in 1920 - 30 (THIRTY) years after Millwall.
Charlton had one - yes, one - season in the Southern League before joining the League in 1921, so their rise from local junior football before WW1 was much more dramatic and didn't allow them to build up the same following. In fact, the club was very weak financially during the 1920s. It's a bit silly, however, to read across from the 1920s to make a present day evaluation.
Basically, Millwall got left behind in the 1930s while Charlton became a substantial club. The late 60s-early 70s stats prove very little, given that Millwall had a promotion near-miss in 1971/72 and Charlton were relegated. Charlton were in long-term decline having been out of the top flight for ten years, Millwall's fortunes were rising - they hadn't been at that level for more than 30 years.
All the seasons from 1989-94 are affected by Charlton playing elsewhere or back at The Valley having a severely restricted capacity of about 8,000. Once that ended, Charlton pulled away again.
Yes, since the 30s Charlton have generally been more successful than Millwall and that is a large part of the reason they have been able to attract higher crowds, but similar factors apply to Millwall before then. You can't count one in and then discount the other in order to make your point. Yet you rely on it in 13 out of 21 seasons quoted. The truth is that the clubs' early history wasn't similar.