Daily Mail has put up a picture provided by the Turks... I guess the light blue border is Turkish Airspace with the plane clearly being in its airspace, surely though the Aircraft wasnt in there for 10-mins!!
I've just gone on Google Maps and its takes about 10-mins to drive that part of Turkey (Not in a straight line either) So a plane would have done it a lot quicker
From that image alone he's gone in there at least twice though. If he was warned...
They send fighters along our coast as well, presumably testing our responses (usually F1s scrambled). I guess we have more patience than Turkey.
Politically Turkey is nowhere near as relevant as a member of NATO as historical cold war foes the UK and US and thertherefore such an incident would likely be far more significant and Iinflammatory to Putin.
Not forgetting also for all the sabre rattling over the past 18months or so it doesn't appear that Russian planes have ever breached UK sovereign airspace unlike what is being alleged by Turkey.
The Russians take the piss like this all the time. They may not have entered UK airspace but they swan through airways ignoring air traffic control on their little trips round the UK. They are a bloody idiotic nuisance and a hazard to navigation
Daily Mail has put up a picture provided by the Turks... I guess the light blue border is Turkish Airspace with the plane clearly being in its airspace, surely though the Aircraft wasnt in there for 10-mins!!
I've just gone on Google Maps and its takes about 10-mins to drive that part of Turkey (Not in a straight line either) So a plane would have done it a lot quicker
That graphic shows that the plane was in Turkish airspace for 2km. At the speed the jet goes, it would of been out in 9 seconds.
Daily Mail has put up a picture provided by the Turks... I guess the light blue border is Turkish Airspace with the plane clearly being in its airspace, surely though the Aircraft wasnt in there for 10-mins!!
I've just gone on Google Maps and its takes about 10-mins to drive that part of Turkey (Not in a straight line either) So a plane would have done it a lot quicker
From that image alone he's gone in there at least twice though. If he was warned...
They send fighters along our coast as well, presumably testing our responses (usually F1s scrambled). I guess we have more patience than Turkey.
Politically Turkey is nowhere near as relevant as a member of NATO as historical cold war foes the UK and US and thertherefore such an incident would likely be far more significant and Iinflammatory to Putin.
Not forgetting also for all the sabre rattling over the past 18months or so it doesn't appear that Russian planes have ever breached UK sovereign airspace unlike what is being alleged by Turkey.
The Russians take the piss like this all the time. They may not have entered UK airspace but they swan through airways ignoring air traffic control on their little trips round the UK. They are a bloody idiotic nuisance and a hazard to navigation
Daily Mail has put up a picture provided by the Turks... I guess the light blue border is Turkish Airspace with the plane clearly being in its airspace, surely though the Aircraft wasnt in there for 10-mins!!
I've just gone on Google Maps and its takes about 10-mins to drive that part of Turkey (Not in a straight line either) So a plane would have done it a lot quicker
From that image alone he's gone in there at least twice though. If he was warned...
They send fighters along our coast as well, presumably testing our responses (usually F1s scrambled). I guess we have more patience than Turkey.
Politically Turkey is nowhere near as relevant as a member of NATO as historical cold war foes the UK and US and thertherefore such an incident would likely be far more significant and Iinflammatory to Putin.
Not forgetting also for all the sabre rattling over the past 18months or so it doesn't appear that Russian planes have ever breached UK sovereign airspace unlike what is being alleged by Turkey.
Yes of course that's true - it really would be inflammatory if we shot one down outside of our airspace.
Don't like where all this is heading.
It'll all blow over. As proved with Ukraine it's unlikely any major power will engage in conflict over what will likely be (without wishing to trivialise it) a significant diplomatic incident.
Russia have been accused allegedly and effectively by proxy of shooting down that malaysian passenger plane killing British citizens and it was relatively swept under the carpet.
Even if not there's absolutely bugger all the likes of us can do to change anything so no point worrying. May as well just worry about our starting line up for Saturday ;-)
Hmm. Putin describes today's events as a 'Stab in the back...by the accomplices of terrorists'. Doesn't sound to me like Turkey will be on Russia's christmas card list. As far as the Turkish army goes, it begs the question that if it is the tenth largest in the world, why is the border with Syria so porous that it is the point of reference for entry and exit to the west for the type of people who bombed Paris. After the Ankara bombing, they may have stepped up security a bit, but for someone who wants to be a major player in Europe, their attitude is way off the mark. Plus their refusal to acknowledge the mass killings they did in the first world war (was it Armenians?) while Germany has repeatedly (and rightly) appologised for the holocaust. Now it seems the Turks are just in the mix as an opportunity to give the Kurds a hiding. Ans also the Russians if they get in the way.....
There was no threat to Turkey, Putin has been taking the piss in airspace for ages all over the place including here only the weekend the UK was hunting a Russian sub, however I doubt highly we would have attacked it. Turkey have made a huge error of judgment. The pilot came down in Syria proving it was anything other than a mistake or the plane was I'm Syria will be difficult, and as such the person who gave the order is in the shite up to his neck.
Daily Mail has put up a picture provided by the Turks... I guess the light blue border is Turkish Airspace with the plane clearly being in its airspace, surely though the Aircraft wasnt in there for 10-mins!!
I've just gone on Google Maps and its takes about 10-mins to drive that part of Turkey (Not in a straight line either) So a plane would have done it a lot quicker
From that image alone he's gone in there at least twice though. If he was warned...
They send fighters along our coast as well, presumably testing our responses (usually F1s scrambled). I guess we have more patience than Turkey.
Politically Turkey is nowhere near as relevant as a member of NATO as historical cold war foes the UK and US and thertherefore such an incident would likely be far more significant and Iinflammatory to Putin.
Not forgetting also for all the sabre rattling over the past 18months or so it doesn't appear that Russian planes have ever breached UK sovereign airspace unlike what is being alleged by Turkey.
Yes of course that's true - it really would be inflammatory if we shot one down outside of our airspace.
Don't like where all this is heading.
You think we'd be able to?... If it had been us, this would have been our attempt based on cuts!!
Extraordinary meeting of NATO in just over an hour and a half from now. I really, really hope someone says "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
The plane was in Turkish airspace for less than ten seconds. It shouldn't have been there but it's hard to give ten warnings during that time really, as Turkey are suggesting? I agree that the Turkish pilot (and the guy who told him he could shoot...) are in big trouble, but it is concerning that this may have much larger, long-term implications. Thankfully, turning the lights on in Crimea, and sorting out the striking lorry drivers at home may be bigger things for Putin to concentrate on just now, or he may just say F*** the lot of ya's and let go with the ICBM's...
The plane was in Turkish airspace for less than ten seconds. It shouldn't have been there but it's hard to give ten warnings during that time really, as Turkey are suggesting? I agree that the Turkish pilot (and the guy who told him he could shoot...) are in big trouble, but it is concerning that this may have much larger, long-term implications. Thankfully, turning the lights on in Crimea, and sorting out the striking lorry drivers at home may be bigger things for Putin to concentrate on just now, or he may just say F*** the lot of ya's and let go with the ICBM's...
To be honest if I were Putin after today, I would just turn round and tell everyone else to sort out ISIS without Russia... We were all so desperate for their help and now one of the countries has gone and destroyed the aid that Russia were giving
The plane was in Turkish airspace for less than ten seconds. It shouldn't have been there but it's hard to give ten warnings during that time really, as Turkey are suggesting? I agree that the Turkish pilot (and the guy who told him he could shoot...) are in big trouble, but it is concerning that this may have much larger, long-term implications. Thankfully, turning the lights on in Crimea, and sorting out the striking lorry drivers at home may be bigger things for Putin to concentrate on just now, or he may just say F*** the lot of ya's and let go with the ICBM's...
To be honest if I were Putin after today, I would just turn round and tell everyone else to sort out ISIS without Russia... We were all so desperate for their help and now one of the countries has gone and destroyed the aid that Russia were giving
Russia aren't assisting much. They've been bombing innocents, rebels and any Assad opposition first and then only rarely ISIS.
Why do you think the well heeled in Kensington and the like are frantically building all of these huge ' underground' extensions to their multi million pound piles?
you could argue looking at that graphic of the flight plan that the ruskies deliberately set out to go through Turkish air space, more than once in this case. They would have been warned on approach to it and could have altered course (This has been the case in the UK and Ireland recently). There have been many occasions where they have been previously warned with the Russian Ambassador being dragged in. This is standard Russian bully boy tactics, which at some stage was going to bite them in the bum.
Putin's response is typical, in that if your against him, then you must be a terrorist. Unfortunately George Bush's liberal use of the term terrorist after 2001 has allowed Puke-in to get away with murder & on a grand scale.
I love the way that Russia media state that because they crashed in Syria, its clear that they couldn't have been in Turkey. Its as if the plane couldn't possibly fly for a period after being hit. The Russian government and media specialise in blatant lies, which if you repeat often enough, everyone believes.
I understand the issues that we face with ISIS, and there is no doubting the need to eradicate them, but its Russia that worry me more than anything in terms of it all kicking off.
you could argue looking at that graphic of the flight plan that the ruskies deliberately set out to go through Turkish air space, more than once in this case. They would have been warned on approach to it and could have altered course (This has been the case in the UK and Ireland recently). There have been many occasions where they have been previously warned with the Russian Ambassador being dragged in. This is standard Russian bully boy tactics, which at some stage was going to bite them in the bum.
Putin's response is typical, in that if your against him, then you must be a terrorist. Unfortunately George Bush's liberal use of the term terrorist after 2001 has allowed Puke-in to get away with murder & on a grand scale.
I love the way that Russia media state that because they crashed in Syria, its clear that they couldn't have been in Turkey. Its as if the plane couldn't possibly fly for a period after being hit. The Russian government and media specialise in blatant lies, which if you repeat often enough, everyone believes.
I understand the issues that we face with ISIS, and there is no doubting the need to eradicate them, but its Russia that worry me more than anything in terms of it all kicking off.
So no different to any other government and media then?
The plane was in Turkish airspace for less than ten seconds. It shouldn't have been there but it's hard to give ten warnings during that time really, as Turkey are suggesting? I agree that the Turkish pilot (and the guy who told him he could shoot...) are in big trouble, but it is concerning that this may have much larger, long-term implications. Thankfully, turning the lights on in Crimea, and sorting out the striking lorry drivers at home may be bigger things for Putin to concentrate on just now, or he may just say F*** the lot of ya's and let go with the ICBM's...
To be honest if I were Putin after today, I would just turn round and tell everyone else to sort out ISIS without Russia... We were all so desperate for their help and now one of the countries has gone and destroyed the aid that Russia were giving
Not sure anybody wanted Russia there apart from Assad. They have bombed rebels with far more frequency than they have IS for a start, which should give an indication of their intentions in the region.
It is amazing how willingly the British public have come round to Putin. He ordered the death by radioactive poison of a Russian citizen on the streets of London for goodness sake!
It is amazing how willingly the British public have come round to Putin. He ordered the death by radioactive poison of a Russian citizen on the streets of London for goodness sake!
Haven't notice any evidence of Putinmania on the streets of London. Most people think he's scum but less scummy and more rational than ISIS.
It is amazing how willingly the British public have come round to Putin. He ordered the death by radioactive poison of a Russian citizen on the streets of London for goodness sake!
Haven't notice any evidence of Putinmania on the streets of London. Most people think he's scum but less scummy and more rational than ISIS.
Not sure I've seen any mania for anything on the streets of London for quite some time.
A fair cross section on my various social media feeds seems to indicate an increase of support for him though, so I'll just go on that.
There was no threat to Turkey, Putin has been taking the piss in airspace for ages all over the place including here only the weekend the UK was hunting a Russian sub, however I doubt highly we would have attacked it. Turkey have made a huge error of judgment. The pilot came down in Syria proving it was anything other than a mistake or the plane was I'm Syria will be difficult, and as such the person who gave the order is in the shite up to his neck.
No wonder they didn't find it if they were searching our airspace for it.
I am totally confused by who is helping who and who is allies with who. Totally confused by the whole sodding mess. And worried.
Sometimes we need a *Made in Chelsea style programme with each cast member representing each country and acting out with each other just what is going on between the two, be much easier to understand!!
*Disclaimer... This does not mean I watch Made in Chelsea / TOWIE / Geordie Shore and the fact I can name them is irrelevant
I'm not convinced the west wanted Russia there in the first place, but clearly knew there wasn't a thing they could do about it if they decided to intervene. If the news reports are true, an American supplied TOW missile was just used to take out a Russian helicopter that was on the ground. Why would the west want a potential 3rd front to open up, through a mistake or deliberate act that was bound to stir things up?
No doubt the Russians are the lesser of two evils when comparing them to ISIS, not sure anyone would argue they're not. It's not comparing apples with apples though.
Pretty confident the UN ambassadors will be earning their money from now on though, I think this will be the first round of a large number of international incidents
Comments
Russia have been accused allegedly and effectively by proxy of shooting down that malaysian passenger plane killing British citizens and it was relatively swept under the carpet.
Even if not there's absolutely bugger all the likes of us can do to change anything so no point worrying. May as well just worry about our starting line up for Saturday ;-)
As far as the Turkish army goes, it begs the question that if it is the tenth largest in the world, why is the border with Syria so porous that it is the point of reference for entry and exit to the west for the type of people who bombed Paris. After the Ankara bombing, they may have stepped up security a bit, but for someone who wants to be a major player in Europe, their attitude is way off the mark. Plus their refusal to acknowledge the mass killings they did in the first world war (was it Armenians?) while Germany has repeatedly (and rightly) appologised for the holocaust. Now it seems the Turks are just in the mix as an opportunity to give the Kurds a hiding.
Ans also the Russians if they get in the way.....
Why do you think the well heeled in Kensington and the like are frantically building all of these huge ' underground' extensions to their multi million pound piles?
Putin's response is typical, in that if your against him, then you must be a terrorist. Unfortunately George Bush's liberal use of the term terrorist after 2001 has allowed Puke-in to get away with murder & on a grand scale.
I love the way that Russia media state that because they crashed in Syria, its clear that they couldn't have been in Turkey. Its as if the plane couldn't possibly fly for a period after being hit. The Russian government and media specialise in blatant lies, which if you repeat often enough, everyone believes.
I understand the issues that we face with ISIS, and there is no doubting the need to eradicate them, but its Russia that worry me more than anything in terms of it all kicking off.
It is amazing how willingly the British public have come round to Putin. He ordered the death by radioactive poison of a Russian citizen on the streets of London for goodness sake!
Anyone would think Putin had signed up to CharltonLife and had something to hide...
Add to that the Turks relationship with ISIS and it's not as clear cut as some are painting out.
I am totally confused by who is helping who and who is allies with who. Totally confused by the whole sodding mess. And worried.
*Disclaimer... This does not mean I watch Made in Chelsea / TOWIE / Geordie Shore and the fact I can name them is irrelevant
No doubt the Russians are the lesser of two evils when comparing them to ISIS, not sure anyone would argue they're not. It's not comparing apples with apples though.
Pretty confident the UN ambassadors will be earning their money from now on though, I think this will be the first round of a large number of international incidents