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Fraeye - How long, what next?
Comments
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What we do know is the KF is in no way experienced, or successful enough to run a Championship club and that his performance at Charlton thus far clearly reflects this.
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Desperate_Pete said:
Appreciate the time it took to answer and the time frame perspective. However my point is that we do not know what sort of assessment was carried out by KF and what if any of his suggestions/findings were followed through. I do not know who is responsible for the comings and goings regarding Charlton; I just know it was not KF.Garrymanilow said:
I think you'll find that when Chris Powell was in charge, which is the timeframe we're talking about here, Karel had spent three years at Eendracht Zele, who are in the fourth division. His time in the Belgian third division hadn't happened yet. Granted after that he did take up a role at a Belgian third division club, rendering him only marginally less qualified to take over a second division English team.Desperate_Pete said:
Blimey KF's coach/managership has dropped from third to fourth now.... Anyway I think your deduction that his assessment, if that is what is was, resulted in all these transfer dealings is suspect to say the least and it has not been made public who made these decisions. Whoever did make these decisions is insane and needs shooting!Garrymanilow said:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable, while a manager is already place, to ask a Belgian fourth division manager with no English football experience to assess the squad of a Championship team you've just bought. There's nothing insane about that whatsoever. And considering we subsequently sold Dale Stephens and Yann Kermorgant and replaced them with Polish Pete, Yohann Thuram and Loic Nego I think it's safe to say he made a right bollocks of his assessmentDesperate_Pete said:Don't want to stick my nose in an argument (says I sticking my nose in) but if you have been told things you can't repeat why would you mention it?
I think you are right and I should not have mentioned it.
I do know from a family friend who was doing some work with the club at the time, that KF was at the club "assessing" our squad whilst CP was still manager, so I am inclined to believe Henry(and others) that he has at the very least had some serious involvement in our transfer dealings since then.
Yes he probable was there assessing the players which would be a reasonable thing for RD to ask him to do - whatever we think of RD, in my opinion.
So what you're saying is Roland asked Karel Fraeye to assess the squad, presumably Karel gave him an answer because he was at the club, and putting his fingers in his ear and humming whenever Roland asked for a report presumably wouldn't endear him too much, and Roland...what? Ignored the assessment? Went his own way? Because you'd think if Roland was displeased enough with Karel's assessment then he wouldn't subsequently hire him as the new head coach; why would you, the bloke can't appraise a team. Roland asked Karel to appraise the squad, subsequently sold key players and signed players from all over Europe, and you think it's suspect logic to assume Fraeye had some input into this? Who else was it then?
Believe me or not I am past caring because if one offers up an alternative perspective on matters there is so much nitpicking and general antipathy.
Sometimes unfortunately I do have to do a bit of work. They take away my Charlton Life privileges otherwise. I do find it funny that you call having the fact you got something wrong pointed out 'perspective'. Do you work for our government?
I know you're on a wind up, but we've got several people, who are generally trustworthy sources, saying that they have been told Fraeye picked out our players, which would explain why he's been here since we first started bringing players in, and we've got you, someone completely adamant that nothing can be known in this world except Fraeye isn't picking the players. I think it's not Fraeye therefore I am. You'll have to forgive me, but considering you quite aggressively tear down Henry for failing to, in your eyes, adequately cite his sources, I can't help but disregard your 'I spoke to Karel in a clubhouse once, also my super secret friend told me it could be literally anyone, from Cheryl Cole to Hitler picking our players, but it's definitely not Karel. No further questions' statement and apply a bit of logic.11 -
Sometimes unfortunately I do have to do a bit of work. They take away my Charlton Life privileges otherwise. I do find it funny that you call having the fact you got something wrong pointed out 'perspective'. Do you work for our government?Garrymanilow said:Desperate_Pete said:
Appreciate the time it took to answer and the time frame perspective. However my point is that we do not know what sort of assessment was carried out by KF and what if any of his suggestions/findings were followed through. I do not know who is responsible for the comings and goings regarding Charlton; I just know it was not KF.Garrymanilow said:
I think you'll find that when Chris Powell was in charge, which is the timeframe we're talking about here, Karel had spent three years at Eendracht Zele, who are in the fourth division. His time in the Belgian third division hadn't happened yet. Granted after that he did take up a role at a Belgian third division club, rendering him only marginally less qualified to take over a second division English team.Desperate_Pete said:
Blimey KF's coach/managership has dropped from third to fourth now.... Anyway I think your deduction that his assessment, if that is what is was, resulted in all these transfer dealings is suspect to say the least and it has not been made public who made these decisions. Whoever did make these decisions is insane and needs shooting!Garrymanilow said:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable, while a manager is already place, to ask a Belgian fourth division manager with no English football experience to assess the squad of a Championship team you've just bought. There's nothing insane about that whatsoever. And considering we subsequently sold Dale Stephens and Yann Kermorgant and replaced them with Polish Pete, Yohann Thuram and Loic Nego I think it's safe to say he made a right bollocks of his assessmentDesperate_Pete said:Don't want to stick my nose in an argument (says I sticking my nose in) but if you have been told things you can't repeat why would you mention it?
I think you are right and I should not have mentioned it.
I do know from a family friend who was doing some work with the club at the time, that KF was at the club "assessing" our squad whilst CP was still manager, so I am inclined to believe Henry(and others) that he has at the very least had some serious involvement in our transfer dealings since then.
Yes he probable was there assessing the players which would be a reasonable thing for RD to ask him to do - whatever we think of RD, in my opinion.
So what you're saying is Roland asked Karel Fraeye to assess the squad, presumably Karel gave him an answer because he was at the club, and putting his fingers in his ear and humming whenever Roland asked for a report presumably wouldn't endear him too much, and Roland...what? Ignored the assessment? Went his own way? Because you'd think if Roland was displeased enough with Karel's assessment then he wouldn't subsequently hire him as the new head coach; why would you, the bloke can't appraise a team. Roland asked Karel to appraise the squad, subsequently sold key players and signed players from all over Europe, and you think it's suspect logic to assume Fraeye had some input into this? Who else was it then?
Believe me or not I am past caring because if one offers up an alternative perspective on matters there is so much nitpicking and general antipathy.
I know you're on a wind up, but we've got several people, who are generally trustworthy sources, saying that they have been told Fraeye picked out our players, which would explain why he's been here since we first started bringing players in, and we've got you, someone completely adamant that nothing can be known in this world except Fraeye isn't picking the players. I think it's not Fraeye therefore I am. You'll have to forgive me, but considering you quite aggressively tear down Henry for failing to, in your eyes, adequately cite his sources, I can't help but disregard your 'I spoke to Karel in a clubhouse once, also my super secret friend told me it could be literally anyone, from Cheryl Cole to Hitler picking our players, but it's definitely not Karel. No further questions' statement and apply a bit of logic.
Sarcasm is not your thing so keep to the day job. I am on no wind up but what the fuck!0 -
Sarcasm is not your thing so keep to the day job. I am on no wind up but what the fuck!Desperate_Pete said:
Sometimes unfortunately I do have to do a bit of work. They take away my Charlton Life privileges otherwise. I do find it funny that you call having the fact you got something wrong pointed out 'perspective'. Do you work for our government?Garrymanilow said:Desperate_Pete said:
Appreciate the time it took to answer and the time frame perspective. However my point is that we do not know what sort of assessment was carried out by KF and what if any of his suggestions/findings were followed through. I do not know who is responsible for the comings and goings regarding Charlton; I just know it was not KF.Garrymanilow said:
I think you'll find that when Chris Powell was in charge, which is the timeframe we're talking about here, Karel had spent three years at Eendracht Zele, who are in the fourth division. His time in the Belgian third division hadn't happened yet. Granted after that he did take up a role at a Belgian third division club, rendering him only marginally less qualified to take over a second division English team.Desperate_Pete said:
Blimey KF's coach/managership has dropped from third to fourth now.... Anyway I think your deduction that his assessment, if that is what is was, resulted in all these transfer dealings is suspect to say the least and it has not been made public who made these decisions. Whoever did make these decisions is insane and needs shooting!Garrymanilow said:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable, while a manager is already place, to ask a Belgian fourth division manager with no English football experience to assess the squad of a Championship team you've just bought. There's nothing insane about that whatsoever. And considering we subsequently sold Dale Stephens and Yann Kermorgant and replaced them with Polish Pete, Yohann Thuram and Loic Nego I think it's safe to say he made a right bollocks of his assessmentDesperate_Pete said:Don't want to stick my nose in an argument (says I sticking my nose in) but if you have been told things you can't repeat why would you mention it?
I think you are right and I should not have mentioned it.
I do know from a family friend who was doing some work with the club at the time, that KF was at the club "assessing" our squad whilst CP was still manager, so I am inclined to believe Henry(and others) that he has at the very least had some serious involvement in our transfer dealings since then.
Yes he probable was there assessing the players which would be a reasonable thing for RD to ask him to do - whatever we think of RD, in my opinion.
So what you're saying is Roland asked Karel Fraeye to assess the squad, presumably Karel gave him an answer because he was at the club, and putting his fingers in his ear and humming whenever Roland asked for a report presumably wouldn't endear him too much, and Roland...what? Ignored the assessment? Went his own way? Because you'd think if Roland was displeased enough with Karel's assessment then he wouldn't subsequently hire him as the new head coach; why would you, the bloke can't appraise a team. Roland asked Karel to appraise the squad, subsequently sold key players and signed players from all over Europe, and you think it's suspect logic to assume Fraeye had some input into this? Who else was it then?
Believe me or not I am past caring because if one offers up an alternative perspective on matters there is so much nitpicking and general antipathy.
I know you're on a wind up, but we've got several people, who are generally trustworthy sources, saying that they have been told Fraeye picked out our players, which would explain why he's been here since we first started bringing players in, and we've got you, someone completely adamant that nothing can be known in this world except Fraeye isn't picking the players. I think it's not Fraeye therefore I am. You'll have to forgive me, but considering you quite aggressively tear down Henry for failing to, in your eyes, adequately cite his sources, I can't help but disregard your 'I spoke to Karel in a clubhouse once, also my super secret friend told me it could be literally anyone, from Cheryl Cole to Hitler picking our players, but it's definitely not Karel. No further questions' statement and apply a bit of logic.
Strong rebuttal (see, I'm great at this sarcasm stuff!)7 -
This is an excellent question and one that our owner ought to consider very carefully. The further we travel down the path of madness, the harder it will become to ever recruit anyone of a reasonable calibre (either players or management). That will ultimately mean that the price we would have to pay for people will be higher than comparative clubs which aren't known to the whole footballing industry as complete basket cases.dickplumb said:Why does everyone think that three decent players would come to us in January? There is a very good chance that we are heading for the First Division.
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If it is true that KF advised on players, his mandate was probably, "Who can we sell and get money for and what cheap alternatives can you find abroad to replace them"Garrymanilow said:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable, while a manager is already place, to ask a Belgian fourth division manager with no English football experience to assess the squad of a Championship team you've just bought. There's nothing insane about that whatsoever. And considering we subsequently sold Dale Stephens and Yann Kermorgant and replaced them with Polish Pete, Yohann Thuram and Loic Nego I think it's safe to say he made a right bollocks of his assessmentDesperate_Pete said:Don't want to stick my nose in an argument (says I sticking my nose in) but if you have been told things you can't repeat why would you mention it?
I think you are right and I should not have mentioned it.
I do know from a family friend who was doing some work with the club at the time, that KF was at the club "assessing" our squad whilst CP was still manager, so I am inclined to believe Henry(and others) that he has at the very least had some serious involvement in our transfer dealings since then.
Yes he probable was there assessing the players which would be a reasonable thing for RD to ask him to do - whatever we think of RD, in my opinion.3 -
Luzon last 8 games = Drew 2 Lost 6 For 5 Against 17 Points 2. Conclusion.....Dire stuff. Fraeye first 8 games = Won 2 Drew 2 Lost 4 For 8 Against 13 Points 8. Conclusion......Improvement. Still below par, but, sack him? He is actually doing better than Reed in 2006-2007. My guess would be - barring a string of heavy defeats in the interim - that he'll be around for an influx of new players in January. The issue is that RD might have miscalculated and let us drop to far down this season to be resuscitated, even if Fraeye turned out to be a genius manager.0
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I was told by someone who would know. I couldn't believe it either. This is why the idea of a British or experienced coach is not something that is even close to hapenning. I can't believe that KF is earning more than Luzon.ShootersHillGuru said:
Where has this figure come from ? I doubt RD is paying top dollar but I really doubt that a head coach of a championship club is earning less than £1000 a week.Rob62 said:
Luzon was only getting 50k, so that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.Daarrzzetbum said:All those mentioned regardless of whether they would be our manager or not, would cost far more then the £32K KF is on as a network employee.
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Well if that's right we are in a lot worse trouble than I thought.Rob62 said:
I was told by someone who would know. I couldn't believe it either.ShootersHillGuru said:
Where has this figure come from ? I doubt RD is paying top dollar but I really doubt that a head coach of a championship club is earning less than £1000 a week.Rob62 said:
Luzon was only getting 50k, so that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.Daarrzzetbum said:All those mentioned regardless of whether they would be our manager or not, would cost far more then the £32K KF is on as a network employee.
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At the same time, who knows whether our manager was being paid by other entities in the network at the same time.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well if that's right we are in a lot worse trouble than I thought.Rob62 said:
I was told by someone who would know. I couldn't believe it either.ShootersHillGuru said:
Where has this figure come from ? I doubt RD is paying top dollar but I really doubt that a head coach of a championship club is earning less than £1000 a week.Rob62 said:
Luzon was only getting 50k, so that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.Daarrzzetbum said:All those mentioned regardless of whether they would be our manager or not, would cost far more then the £32K KF is on as a network employee.
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Note to current manager, future managers and RD
We are too small as a squad, we said that at the start of the season and it was true then as now even with impressive initial performances / additions such as Lookman, THD and Lennon.
In the championship you have a lot of games and can expect injuries and suspensions. With a paper thin squad, your oldies get tired and jaded and your youngsters can't last the pace.
You need to build a blended squad with sufficient depth to weather the injuries, suspensions and tiredness.
Diarra and JJ are both good at a championship level when played in appropriate positions and with enough rest. They are both getting on a bit and can't be expected to do 2 games a week at anything like the intensity they could if they only had to do 1.
If you have to play people with niggles, they aren't going to perform at their best week in week out. They are going to get long term injuries and that is more expensive. Having good conditioning and Physio staff who's opinions are followed (I'm thinking of you Marinho and think your treatment of your Physio is partly responsible for Chelsea in 16th place) is very important.
Having a number of formation options is helpful as *gasp* some teams may have spent time working out your best players, your set formation and how to set up to beat it.
Your tactics can change during a game. If you are up 2 goals against a bottom of the league side, now may be a time to make an early substitution and restructure the team to control the midfield?
If you are going to send players off to other clubs to gain confidence or otherwise gain belief, why not ensure you can have them back when you need them? (Harrriot, maybe Watt if Lookman is injured)
Don't pay players for not being with the club especially in important positions where you don't have cover (Bikey etc). Have a set up where you deal with people who aren't pulling in the right direction but don't pay them to do nothing for goodness sake.
I could go on. I just did
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The more I read, the more I interact with this DISASTER at the moment the more my mood and emotions are effected.
Some humility, from these 2 utter c***** to play around and mess with people's and a communities pride and something that is such a focal point for so many people's lives is unforgivable.
No wonder so few will renew.
Where is the responsibility, where are the apologies, the change in the clubs ethos, the change in the clubs approach, the dismantling of a once great club. His thinking is absolutely incorrect, his thinking bears no resemblance to the histroy of the club all the way back to its inception.
There was always going to be a few clubs that suffered at the hands of the extreme money pumped into English football, and if we had been on the other end of that spectrum we would all be cheering and looking at extending the ground as multi million pound players arrive, but the other end of the scale is this maniac with no clear direction, no clear ethos and no care for hollowing out a once great and proud club...
In many ways it had to be us, it was always going to be us... a smooth ride just doesnt exist for a club like Charlton...
Actions, well bar finding him and clubbing him to death "Casino" style, Im all out of ideas...7 -
I completely forgot he was temporary and had just accepted he was now our manager.0
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From what I hear, he is completely involved behind the scenes and therefore is our head coach for the foreseeable future. Most of us already know this however.
The problem (well one of the multiple problems ) is that he appears to be more buddy buddy with KM and RD than any other previous "head coach". He's already shown us he hasn't got a clue tactically and allegedly (which I believe by the way) has been involved behind the scenes with recruitment etc since the takeover.
The fact that his coaching and tactical qualifications / experience are woefully short of acceptable seem to hold no problem with KM and RD.
Unfortunately I think we are in a much worse position now than we ever have been since the takeover and Karel doesn't appear to be going anywhere. Crowds will continue to fall. Discontent will continue to be heard. But the only things we will hear from Karel, KM and RD are silence, excuses and of course "Huh?"14 -
I think the fact that nobody knows for sure who is assessing and selecting players for Charlton tells its own story.3
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You are right bellz2002. I heard that part of the reason our managers have had such short tenure recently is that they were unwilling to work closely with KF who must be on very good terms with Duchatelet. Perhaps he has been earmarked for the job all along and that it was the others who were 'interim' - who knows in this topsy-turvy heartbreaking regime?
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It shows how bad things on, when a head/coach takes a young player off who's scored 2 goals and the crowd think it for tactical reasons ?
They now say it was a hammy strain.
I would have said to Lookman; limp for a minutes before coming off.
the "you don't know what your doing" didn't help but our supporters are now so punch drunk, they will always believe the worst.
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Yeah I agree no ones in a good place. I couldn't get to the game but listened on Player. The commentators did comment on the fact they thought his hamstring had been pulled and he signalled to come off as it happened and that they thought the fans hadn't seen that (off the ball I think)0
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anyway the master plan is now clear. Have KF as interim manager until our real target Jose becomes available and snap him up overnight.0
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Whilst he kept us up, he is still not the answer for the long term.Alwaysneil said:anyway the master plan is now clear. Have KF as interim manager until our real target Jose becomes available and snap him up overnight.
I suppose he may be the best option for us, keeping Fraeye with him, it worked last time.0 -
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Too many Jose's. I'd probably rather have Riga back than Mourinho even though that wasn't what I first meant2
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So, reading this through, the conclusion is that the word 'interim' was just dreamt up by the Belgian Mafia to keep the elderly fanbase at bay. Clearly, almost two months after his appointment there is no genuine attempt to find anyone else to run the club and two points from our last 12 has not even stirred KM into any kind of comments. So what we are stuck with is a bargain basement unsuitable and inexperienced interim manager who is already taking pot shots at players he may (depending on who you believe) have helped sign in a former life. And we wonder why we might be heading for Division 1. If we didn't all know better we might be forgiven for thinking KM and RD want that to happen ...3
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Since there's only one Belgium in the world, I don't know what the other 1999 are. Are they alien countries?Showmetheway2gohome said:I heard there is a desk at the euro tunnel asking all Belgiums if that would like a interview to be charltons new head coach. We are in the process of interviews with 2000 Belgiums so Karel can have interim job for rest of season. I mean we want to get this appointment right we don't want to sack the next Alex Ferguson after 10 games next season do we
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Bloody migrants mate... it's the next logical step! I heard Happyclappystan tried to sneak in as Belgium last week. Bollocks coz out of 1.5 million of the feckers not one had a FIFA coaching license!IA said:
Since there's only one Belgium in the world, I don't know what the other 1999 are. Are they alien countries?Showmetheway2gohome said:I heard there is a desk at the euro tunnel asking all Belgiums if that would like a interview to be charltons new head coach. We are in the process of interviews with 2000 Belgiums so Karel can have interim job for rest of season. I mean we want to get this appointment right we don't want to sack the next Alex Ferguson after 10 games next season do we
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If he doesn't go today then we must give him and KM hell next home game, two arseholes well out of their depth.2
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I've disagreed with you about Karel as I wanted him to be given a chance. It seems that he hasn't been able to take his chance and being in the bottom 3 at Christmas we must act now.ElfsborgAddick said:
I have this view and still do the aways!braydex said:
Like you say, each to their own and to be honest, like you, I know who will and wont agree with me. But...the reason for admitting publicly on this forum that I 'smirk' when we lose, admit that i'm just a little bit pleased when we lose, is because I know that others feel the same. KF is not the right man to manage the team. He was gifted the position and it was again, a very poor decision by RD and KM to appoint him. I don't want him to be our manager on an interim or full time basis, and the only way that MAY happen is if the team keep losing. I know that's hard to accept but it's true.AFKABartram said:
Each to their own but I genuinely don't know how any supporter can think that.braydex said:
and do I feel guilty for smirking when we lose at the moment? I did, yes. But not anymore. Because genetically, we all have a built in 'I told you so' emotion.
I desperately want Charlton owned differently, run differently and managed differently, but nowhere near as much as I want to be proved completely wrong and Fraeye turns out to be some magician and Charlton win every game.
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About 7 minutes + injury time....1
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Please pack your bags and fuck off4
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Get your coat Karel, you useless article. Utter utter gash3
