New VOTV article on Jose Riga's return
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Well, the FF and others were invited. I've struggled to find a way to describe it that doesn't include the FF, although I accept it wasn't a routine FF meeting.rikofold said:It wasn't the fan's forum she told that to, but the fans' meeting.
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JJ was roaring at Reza for his sending off wasn't he?All_Thaid_Up said:So did the players say he wasn't good enough? They then gave him another game!
Seems the players then decided not to try and 5-0 made sure they listened
That would be applauded if munity was afoot.0 -
Could it be that the players (I'm guessing Henderson and JJ) said he isn't good enough, but they kept him on until they got Riga (who asked for a longer contract than Roly was willing to give, hence why it didn't happen immediately). Would make sense as the entire team seemed like they didn't want to play for the dead man walking, and Fraeye threw a strop afterwards and made the players (Henderson or JJ) do the press interview.All_Thaid_Up said:So did the players say he wasn't good enough? They then gave him another game!
Seems the players then decided not to try and 5-0 made sure they listened2 -
I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.7 -
Did they serve tea and coffee at this meeting?4
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Indeed, it's a ridiculous thing to do.HardyAddick said:I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.1 -
If it had happened under PV and CP / AC etc you'd have called it involvement, collaboration, inclusion or team work.WestCountryAddick said:
Indeed, it's a ridiculous thing to do.HardyAddick said:I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.0 -
If Kevin Lisbie said he didn't think Curbs was up to it then who are we to disagree?PL54 said:
If it had happened under PV and CP / AC etc you'd have called it involvement, collaboration, inclusion or team work.WestCountryAddick said:
Indeed, it's a ridiculous thing to do.HardyAddick said:I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.
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Huh? So CP was in a meeting with his players and his boss, and his boss asked his players if they thought Chris was up to the job? That happened to Curbs too did it? I say that's bullshit.PL54 said:
If it had happened under PV and CP / AC etc you'd have called it involvement, collaboration, inclusion or team work.WestCountryAddick said:
Indeed, it's a ridiculous thing to do.HardyAddick said:I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.
I understand there may be meetings involving senior managers, football managers and senior players, but they don't start digging out the manager and getting opinions on whether they think he is any good or not.8 -
Let's not forget they've got previous for sacking a manager before a game and not announcing it...WestCountryAddick said:
Could it be that the players (I'm guessing Henderson and JJ) said he isn't good enough, but they kept him on until they got Riga (who asked for a longer contract than Roly was willing to give, hence why it didn't happen immediately). Would make sense as the entire team seemed like they didn't want to play for the dead man walking, and Fraeye threw a strop afterwards and made the players (Henderson or JJ) do the press interview.All_Thaid_Up said:So did the players say he wasn't good enough? They then gave him another game!
Seems the players then decided not to try and 5-0 made sure they listened
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imo highly manipulative and bordering on sociopathic. What the hell are you supposed to say when that person is sat accross from you? Who's your manager? In any line of business that's extraordinary. You could say that was an attempt in getting the players to say he is good enough through sheer politeness and trying not to offend someone who they may well think is a decent enough person. Then she can go away and say "well, the players think he's good enough and have their support".FishCostaFortune said:'Voice of The Valley has also been told that a meeting took place at the weekend involving Fraeye, Meire, chairman Richard Murray and two senior players at which Meire asked the players in front of Fraeye whether the latter was good enough to continue.'
Oh wow, would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
Astounding.7 -
Wow. That's incredible!FishCostaFortune said:'Voice of The Valley has also been told that a meeting took place at the weekend involving Fraeye, Meire, chairman Richard Murray and two senior players at which Meire asked the players in front of Fraeye whether the latter was good enough to continue.'
Oh wow, would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.0 -
It strikes me there was a fly on the wall at that meeting - the non-executive chairman. Why was he there? Does he think that meeting was acceptable practice?2
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From what I've heard I wouldn't be so sure.....PL54 said:
Solly wouldn't have said anythingredman said:One can only assume it was Jackson, as captain, as one of Henderson, Solly or Diarra. It is a ridiculous position to put them in.
Any respect they had for her must have fizzled away now.
#rezasnewbestmate4 -
If true this is staggeringly poor management from KM. I simply can't believe it. You need to protect the players but despite what you think of KF you need to protect his rights as an employee as well. Hanging him out! (laundry metaphor seems appropriate)6
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All this makes me wonder whether she has fallen on her sword or been gagged.2
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If the players had independently come to KM and RM and said something along the lines of "sorry but we feel KF isn't up for the job in a number of different aspects", while I'm wary of player power ousting managers (cf. the mercenaries at Sunderland and Chelsea who turn it on and off as they wish), then they would be somewhat advocated in their decision to sack Fraeye.
However, to pull a manager into a meeting with two senior players and to have them say in front of him whether he is up to the job is disgraceful and pretty cowardly in my view, regardless of who the owners are and regardless of who are the figures in the positions of responsibility.
Regardless of competence and integrity, KM and RM are in their respective positions to call the shots (or to at least give as best reason as possible to RD to do so) independently with their own reasoning and judgement of the situation. The fact they had to have two senior players make up their minds for them is just pathetic. I actually feel for KF in this case.6 -
I would interpret it as the pro Fraeye CEO, and the pro Fraeye Chair, in the presence of Fraeye were trying to pressure the players to love Big Brother. For a start part of the narrative at a football club, always, is questioning the performances of players. Then again Katrien has form in a similar regard, as in she wanted the good fans to police the (2%) bad fans.
It is merely my musing, but it could have been a bit like telling the perfects to sort out the class who are letting the whole, otherwise flawless school, down.5 -
Tend to agree with @Seth Plum on the whole.
I suspect Meire was putting pressure on the two most senior players when it was clear the dressing room had been long since lost.
"He is my appointment why won't you work with him?"
"Katrien, he knows absolutely Jack."
Since then she's been on the missing list after having a toddler tantrum for not getting her own way as Fraeye left the players to do he press conference as a thank you for not backing him well knowing his position was untenable.
We now have Jose in post via a Roland announcement and there is still no "official" sign of Katrien.
Suspect she has a few personal ends to tie up before its announces she's off to somewhere else in the network. But then again our owner is somewhat unique so anything is possible.....
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None of us were there. It's more than possible that one of the players implied the managers weren't any good and got asked the direct question about Fraeye. Not saying it's good management - would have been better to have a private conversation with the players - and certainly not before a game, but this isn't the most people-oriented or brightest of leaderships is it.WestCountryAddick said:
Huh? So CP was in a meeting with his players and his boss, and his boss asked his players if they thought Chris was up to the job? That happened to Curbs too did it? I say that's bullshit.PL54 said:
If it had happened under PV and CP / AC etc you'd have called it involvement, collaboration, inclusion or team work.WestCountryAddick said:
Indeed, it's a ridiculous thing to do.HardyAddick said:I don't think its good Management to have Chairman, CEO, Fraeye and 2 senior players in a critical meeting.
If i was Fraeye and been told to come to such a meeting, i would have held my hands up and walked.
I understand there may be meetings involving senior managers, football managers and senior players, but they don't start digging out the manager and getting opinions on whether they think he is any good or not.0 - Sponsored links:
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I have always said players don't players don't play badly on purpose FACT, but maybe they just didn't like Karel and decided to make an exceptionally rare exception to that rule. "Let's try and lose heavy and we'll pay the fans, it's worth the cost to get rid of him." If that is the case much respect to them if they really hated him, much respect!All_Thaid_Up said:So did the players say he wasn't good enough? They then gave him another game!
Seems the players then decided not to try and 5-0 made sure they listened1 -
Before anymore gets typed I am not in any way defending Karel Fraeye here
But IF I was in a position of management and that had been done to me I would have found it difficult not to strangle the person asking subordinates if I was up to the job. Once resisting that urge I'd have been on my toes and putting a claim in for constructive dismissal.
None of us liked nor wanted Fraeye but that is absolutely no way to behave21 -
Just a routine 360° annual appraisal interview.4
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agree but KF is still part of the network and is probably still involved in the scouting/transfers of players.Carter said:Before anymore gets typed I am not in any way defending Karel Fraeye here
But IF I was in a position of management and that had been done to me I would have found it difficult not to strangle the person asking subordinates if I was up to the job. Once resisting that urge I'd have been on my toes and putting a claim in for constructive dismissal.
None of us liked nor wanted Fraeye but that is absolutely no way to behave
Once you work for Roly you never truly leave!0 -
PDA:
Couldn't the players have said No, this ain't on. We're not doing this ?
*PDA: Playing Devils Advocate.0 -
Maybe Fraeye asked Katrien to ask the players, put the players on the spot so to speak.0
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I suspect KM and RM were fully aware that Fraeye was not up to it and hence they called the meeting. What is disgraceful is having players and manager there was well. If KM asked the question about Fraeye's abilities then that was utter cowardice aimed at getting them to go her job. It also meant that if they replied honestly then he would be fired and she can tell Roland her hands were clean. Had they refused to shit on him, then she could tell the fans that the players gave him their support in an open and honest meeting.
That's not management. That's pathetic politics.7 -
What an appalling display of managerial ineptitude. What were they supposed to say in front of him? "Yeah, he's not good enough. Now come and lead us to victory in a vital game, Carol."FishCostaFortune said:'Voice of The Valley has also been told that a meeting took place at the weekend involving Fraeye, Meire, chairman Richard Murray and two senior players at which Meire asked the players in front of Fraeye whether the latter was good enough to continue.'
Oh wow, would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
Or more likely, get them to take responsibility for RD's eccentric decision-making.
Disgraceful on every level.4 -
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I highly doubt it.AddickFC81 said:
I have always said players don't players don't play badly on purpose FACT, but maybe they just didn't like Karel and decided to make an exceptionally rare exception to that rule. "Let's try and lose heavy and we'll pay the fans, it's worth the cost to get rid of him." If that is the case much respect to them if they really hated him, much respect!All_Thaid_Up said:So did the players say he wasn't good enough? They then gave him another game!
Seems the players then decided not to try and 5-0 made sure they listened2
