Thanks for injecting some much needed sanity into this thread. Despite the claims of Project Fear, this has already been proven false. If there are so many good reasons for staying in the EU, why do the In side have to continue peddling these fabrications? Bit worrying that these people claim to be EU experts but have little grasp of what constitutes the relationship between two countries and a country and the EU.
You can say goodbye to the Eurostar terminals at Paris and Brussels too
Really ???? And why would that be ? Is it because the French and Belgiums won't want any tourists and businessmen spending any money in their capitals after Brexit and they'd rather parts of their local economies were shut down ? Or is it because the French will want to write off their huge investment in Eurostar ?
Indeed. The Eurostar is a joint UK-French business venture. Shutting its main link (UK to Europe) would be business suicide and likely subject to lengthy and costly legal wrangling. If the holding company took the French government to court over this, they would not have a leg to stand on:
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?" "Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
More British people should utilise the freedom of travel to live and work in another country, for a short time at least. Then there wouldn't be such an 'us and them' mentality. It always amazes me what a big issue some people make about immigration. In reality does it really affect your life, or is it just reading about it in the newspapers continuously that gets people worked up? I suspect it is more the latter. The EU clearly needs reform but the UK obviously needs to be in it.
Does 340,000 net immigration annually affect your life? Yes, obviously.
House prices are insane. Roads are busy. The NHS is under significant strain. School places are short.
Can one person tell me a single disadvantage to a controlled immigration system where we pick people based on the skills they have and the skills deficit the country has?
No I can't offhand, but on the other hand, the reasons you give are incredibly weak, Not very well thought out and not necessarily effected by immigration. There's stacks of money to increase school places and reduce the strain on the NHS, the government just choose to let the very richest people keep it all. Roads are busy? Touch of schrodingers immigrant there - either they are all spongers and therefore not using the roads, or they are going to work to do jobs that need doing, if they were not doing them, the jobs wouldn't disappear and clear the roads overnight. Unless of course you think they are the ones driving BMWs on their own and not the people on busses? As for house prices, again, how can immigrants who are all apparently driving down wages afford to buy houses and drive up prices? Sorry Nick, you may have some very credible points to make, but you are wide of the mark there.
House prices increase because landlords buy up homes and rent them out - often by rooms. I conceed my point about roads. Do you suggest building schools all over green spaces? Or just extend schools creating traffic issues?
How someone can tell me that 350,000 people every year, plus a geometric increase in birth rates has no impact is ridiculous.
So it's the fault of immigrants that UK government policy is to not build any social housing? I assume your super rich immigrants from outside the EU buying up vast swathes of prime property (again government policy to let them do so) and the knock on effect that has, is also the fault of the lady who cleans the loos in the local McDonalds?
Plenty of brown spaces out there to build schools (and houses), soz Nick it doesn't hold water.
The birth rate myth is exploded elsewhere, and yes 350'000 people will have an impact - both positive and negative. Try looking at some of the positives too it might cheer you up a bit... Appreciate your honesty over the roads.
One last thought. Another thing I see people getting their undies in an uproar about (not necessarily you Nick) is Petr the Plumber paying his UK taxes and then sending his child benefit "back home". So one assumes the people getting all frothy about that would rather he bring little Gregor and Anka over to the UK, along with their Mum and start using all the aforementioned services that they then also have apoplexy over?
Just saw a great vid of him getting ripped apart a couple of years ago about claiming his allowance for being on a committee that he hadn't attended for three years. Check my Fb page Rob.
More British people should utilise the freedom of travel to live and work in another country, for a short time at least. Then there wouldn't be such an 'us and them' mentality. It always amazes me what a big issue some people make about immigration. In reality does it really affect your life, or is it just reading about it in the newspapers continuously that gets people worked up? I suspect it is more the latter. The EU clearly needs reform but the UK obviously needs to be in it.
Does 340,000 net immigration annually affect your life? Yes, obviously.
House prices are insane. Roads are busy. The NHS is under significant strain. School places are short.
Can one person tell me a single disadvantage to a controlled immigration system where we pick people based on the skills they have and the skills deficit the country has?
No I can't offhand, but on the other hand, the reasons you give are incredibly weak, Not very well thought out and not necessarily effected by immigration. There's stacks of money to increase school places and reduce the strain on the NHS, the government just choose to let the very richest people keep it all. Roads are busy? Touch of schrodingers immigrant there - either they are all spongers and therefore not using the roads, or they are going to work to do jobs that need doing, if they were not doing them, the jobs wouldn't disappear and clear the roads overnight. Unless of course you think they are the ones driving BMWs on their own and not the people on busses? As for house prices, again, how can immigrants who are all apparently driving down wages afford to buy houses and drive up prices? Sorry Nick, you may have some very credible points to make, but you are wide of the mark there.
House prices increase because landlords buy up homes and rent them out - often by rooms. I conceed my point about roads. Do you suggest building schools all over green spaces? Or just extend schools creating traffic issues?
How someone can tell me that 350,000 people every year, plus a geometric increase in birth rates has no impact is ridiculous.
So it's the fault of immigrants that UK government policy is to not build any social housing? I assume your super rich immigrants from outside the EU buying up vast swathes of prime property (again government policy to let them do so) and the knock on effect that has, is also the fault of the lady who cleans the loos in the local McDonalds?
Plenty of brown spaces out there to build schools (and houses), soz Nick it doesn't hold
I recall the Metro running a story last year that said that it averaged out that seven out of ten London houses were bought by (non-EU) overseas buy to let investors. I think it was mostly Russian money.
So not surprising that house prices are so high. Unless there is a huge crash, and all the while that overseas money is buying up houses I don't see how a crash can happen, then London will remain in this bubble that prices out the average earner from getting a mortgage.
As far as building on brown space, whilst it makes sense to find a use for this space, I've seen so much said by developers about they don't want to build on that type of land because it is too complicated and costs too much money, so perhaps there is not the will of the construction industry to make it happen.
The cost of remediating brownfield sites is huge. Also they are never located locally and often have poor transport links.
The number of homes owned by landlords that are subsequently rented out is huge now. They often rent out rooms to make it affordable.
I can't take anyone seriously that believes 350,000 net migrants a year has no impact on housing/rental prices. That even assumes those leaving the UK sell their homes.
Can I just make the point before frothing lefties bring out the slime that I'm not anti-immigraton whatsoever. I just cannot understand why people are anti-immigraton controls and support the Eu free-for-all we have at the moment.
How can anyone properly integrate under the current system?
The number of homes owned by landlords that are subsequently rented out is huge now. They often rent out rooms to make it affordable.
When I see tiny bedsits rented out at £1500+ a month (advertised as studios!), I'm not sure what affordable is anymore.
If you move out of London, you are then faced with huge travel costs which offset the accommodation savings.
The average wage in London is... £28K I think in the last stats I saw published. Renting a bedsit studio flat that is accessible for work, for £1500 a month, certainly isn't this "accommodation ideally being no more than 30% of a persons income" that used to be bandied around (and still applies to plenty of places in Europe if the Metro/Standard are believable).
I don't think most sensible people are saying that they have no impact on house prices, of course they do. However, it probably isn't as bad as some would have you believe. The majority will be young, single people and so will be in house shares and renting. Without a doubt the govt should be building (or at the very least) encouraging more house building and affordable houses at that. The bigger problem is the buy to letters, whether they be foreign or not. We live in an age where it's possible for a relatively lower middle class family to own multiple homes predominantly due to being lucky enough to have been born at a time when right to buy came in. As such, many younger people, especially in London, have little to no hope of every owning one house as things stand.
If the low skilled EU workers were coming over and buying up multiple properties each then yes I think you'd be spot on with your point. The problem is bigger than that though.
Debating with people who have already made up their minds is ludicrous.
I've made up my mind about what I want to happen, the main thing I really hope is that everyone who can vote does, that way the decision will be made categorically with no argument on either side.
I've got two properties that I rent out. Both are 3 bed houses. I can get about £1300 a month all in from your average family. On the flip side, I can rent each room out and cram 4 'foreign' families in each room (essentially one great big mattress) and nearly treble my accrued rent.
How? Because I've been told numerous times by prospective tenants that they're used to living like that so they're happy to continue doing so as it means their rental per head is dramatically reduced and they can send as much excess cash home as they like.
I've never taken advantage of this due to it being far outweighed by the standard of living some of these people adhere to. Maintaining the property becomes counterproductive due to the degradation rate. Also, you usually find sub letting happening whereby the 4 families per room increases to 6 families.
People shouldn't be forced to alter their living standards due to immigration and the living standards people bring with them.
Before anyone explodes in apoplectic rage, this isn't representative of all people chosing this wonderful country as their home, but it does happen and happens on a larger scale than some realise or care to admit.
I'm one of the good guys that ensures one family can continue to live in the conditions that they're accustomed to. I even lower the rents for them so they're not left with nothing after forking out.
You can say goodbye to the Eurostar terminals at Paris and Brussels too
Really ???? And why would that be ? Is it because the French and Belgiums won't want any tourists and businessmen spending any money in their capitals after Brexit and they'd rather parts of their local economies were shut down ? Or is it because the French will want to write off their huge investment in Eurostar ?
Indeed. The Eurostar is a joint UK-French business venture. Shutting its main link (UK to Europe) would be business suicide and likely subject to lengthy and costly legal wrangling. If the holding company took the French government to court over this, they would not have a leg to stand on:
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?" "Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
For pity's sake. I referred to the Eurostar TERMINAL. Or more specifically the " UK Border" sitting inside the Brussels and Paris terminals. Where I have stood in a ridiculous queue while some muppet from UK immigration asks inane questions of obviously innocent people. They will cancel that in a heartbeat. This is already why if you come back in the new Eurostar "direct" service from Marseilles, you have to get out, go through UK border and security checks, and then get back in after an hour delay. It will indeed be the slow death of Eurostar. I bet Michael O'leary is lining up A huge donation to Vote Leave as we speak.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want our border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can say goodbye to the Eurostar terminals at Paris and Brussels too
Really ???? And why would that be ? Is it because the French and Belgiums won't want any tourists and businessmen spending any money in their capitals after Brexit and they'd rather parts of their local economies were shut down ? Or is it because the French will want to write off their huge investment in Eurostar ?
Indeed. The Eurostar is a joint UK-French business venture. Shutting its main link (UK to Europe) would be business suicide and likely subject to lengthy and costly legal wrangling. If the holding company took the French government to court over this, they would not have a leg to stand on:
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?" "Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
For pity's sake. I referred to the Eurostar TERMINAL. Or more specifically the " UK Border" sitting inside the Brussels and Paris terminals. Where I have stood in a ridiculous queue whole some muppet from UK immigration asks inane questions of obviously innocent people. They will cancel that in a heartbeat. This is already why if you come back in the new Eurostar "direct" service from Marseilles, you have to get out, go through UK border and security checks, and then get back in after an hour delay. It will indeed be the slow death of Eurostar. I bet Michael O'leary is lining up A huge donation to Vote Leave as we speak.
I'm still not convinced, what evidence do you have that this could happen? Eurostar already has a hard enough time competing with airlines, all this would do is make it even less competitive. As a joint French-UK interest there is no possible reason that the French or anyone else would take such action purely out of spite.
As the UK lies outside of Schengen I have yet to see any compelling reason that crossing borders would be any more difficult as a UK citizen than it currently is. Any conjecture to suggest it would be comes off as baseless fearmongering.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can word it how you like mate, it's quite clear what I mean.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can word it how you like mate, it's quite clear what I mean.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
It was clear - you asked a question about whether we should "protect our borders" and I gave you an answer. But for some reason you really wanted an answer on immigration.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can word it how you like mate, it's quite clear what I mean.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
It was clear - you asked a question about whether we should "protect our borders" and I gave you an answer. But for some reason you really wanted an answer on immigration.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can word it how you like mate, it's quite clear what I mean.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
It was clear - you asked a question about whether we should "protect our borders" and I gave you an answer. But for some reason you really wanted an answer on immigration.
I see this thread has continued without one of the Europhiles answering the question asked a few pages back.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I would imagine that no one answered because everyone does want or border controlled.
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Point is very simple, in the EU, uncontrolled mass immigration from Europe, out of it, controlled immigration from Europe. Why wouldn't you want to control this?
You asked if we want our "borders controlled" and I answered that they are, with a practical example of how they are.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
You can word it how you like mate, it's quite clear what I mean.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
It was clear - you asked a question about whether we should "protect our borders" and I gave you an answer. But for some reason you really wanted an answer on immigration.
No answer from SE9addick then, anyone else?
Can you clarify which question you're asking ?
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
You can say goodbye to the Eurostar terminals at Paris and Brussels too
Really ???? And why would that be ? Is it because the French and Belgiums won't want any tourists and businessmen spending any money in their capitals after Brexit and they'd rather parts of their local economies were shut down ? Or is it because the French will want to write off their huge investment in Eurostar ?
Indeed. The Eurostar is a joint UK-French business venture. Shutting its main link (UK to Europe) would be business suicide and likely subject to lengthy and costly legal wrangling. If the holding company took the French government to court over this, they would not have a leg to stand on:
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?" "Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
For pity's sake. I referred to the Eurostar TERMINAL. Or more specifically the " UK Border" sitting inside the Brussels and Paris terminals. Where I have stood in a ridiculous queue whole some muppet from UK immigration asks inane questions of obviously innocent people. They will cancel that in a heartbeat. This is already why if you come back in the new Eurostar "direct" service from Marseilles, you have to get out, go through UK border and security checks, and then get back in after an hour delay. It will indeed be the slow death of Eurostar. I bet Michael O'leary is lining up A huge donation to Vote Leave as we speak.
I'm still not convinced, what evidence do you have that this could happen? Eurostar already has a hard enough time competing with airlines, all this would do is make it even less competitive. As a joint French-UK interest there is no possible reason that the French or anyone else would take such action purely out of spite.
As the UK lies outside of Schengen I have yet to see any compelling reason that crossing borders would be any more difficult as a UK citizen than it currently is. Any conjecture to suggest it would be comes off as baseless fearmongering.
In fairness, @PragueAddick is talking about the UK Border Agency operating within the buildings (a bit like US Customs and Immigration have for years in Dublin Airport, and previously Shannon). The current arrangement is that, in effect, UK territory begins within the stations in Paris and Brussels for the purposes of passport checking. The problem is that, fixated as we are by trains, we always see the word terminal as being in relation to a line... The argument, as I understand it, is that it is highly unlikely that such arrangements would continue following a Brexit; whether you think that is a good or a bad thing is up to you.
You can say goodbye to the Eurostar terminals at Paris and Brussels too
Really ???? And why would that be ? Is it because the French and Belgiums won't want any tourists and businessmen spending any money in their capitals after Brexit and they'd rather parts of their local economies were shut down ? Or is it because the French will want to write off their huge investment in Eurostar ?
Indeed. The Eurostar is a joint UK-French business venture. Shutting its main link (UK to Europe) would be business suicide and likely subject to lengthy and costly legal wrangling. If the holding company took the French government to court over this, they would not have a leg to stand on:
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?" "Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
For pity's sake. I referred to the Eurostar TERMINAL. Or more specifically the " UK Border" sitting inside the Brussels and Paris terminals. Where I have stood in a ridiculous queue whole some muppet from UK immigration asks inane questions of obviously innocent people. They will cancel that in a heartbeat. This is already why if you come back in the new Eurostar "direct" service from Marseilles, you have to get out, go through UK border and security checks, and then get back in after an hour delay. It will indeed be the slow death of Eurostar. I bet Michael O'leary is lining up A huge donation to Vote Leave as we speak.
I'm still not convinced, what evidence do you have that this could happen? Eurostar already has a hard enough time competing with airlines, all this would do is make it even less competitive. As a joint French-UK interest there is no possible reason that the French or anyone else would take such action purely out of spite.
As the UK lies outside of Schengen I have yet to see any compelling reason that crossing borders would be any more difficult as a UK citizen than it currently is. Any conjecture to suggest it would be comes off as baseless fearmongering.
Plenty of evidence. The reason for the current fiasco at Lille is that the Brits wanted to put up " UK Border" buildings inside the stations at Marseille and Avignon, and the French said "enough already". Similarly the delays to Eurostar direct services to Amsterdam, and DB's direct services to Cologne and Frankfurt are delayed because the Dutch and Germans are similarly unwilling to make corners of their fine stations outposts of the British Empire. Not least because the British had the temerity to suggest they, and not us, had to pay for the damn things.
Eurostar is dong just fine against the airlines at present, revenue up 11% last year AFAIR. And no wonder. Live in Eltham, business in Brussels? Eurostar can get you there less than three hours after you left your house. Now work out how long that would take if you flew. But if you have to stop at Ashford, get out, faff around for an hour, when you could have been eating sleeping or working, get back in again, bang goes your advantage.
When was the last time you actually used Eurostar, Fishy?
Comments
"Why did your government decide to destroy this business?"
"Er because we were a bit annoyed that the UK democratically left a political union."
Isn't that what you said the EU was good for in a previous post Prague? Allowing citizens and businesses to take governments to court if they make incredibly stupid decisions that could cause far-reaching damage?
Plenty of brown spaces out there to build schools (and houses), soz Nick it doesn't hold water.
The birth rate myth is exploded elsewhere, and yes 350'000 people will have an impact - both positive and negative. Try looking at some of the positives too it might cheer you up a bit... Appreciate your honesty over the roads.
One last thought. Another thing I see people getting their undies in an uproar about (not necessarily you Nick) is Petr the Plumber paying his UK taxes and then sending his child benefit "back home". So one assumes the people getting all frothy about that would rather he bring little Gregor and Anka over to the UK, along with their Mum and start using all the aforementioned services that they then also have apoplexy over?
So not surprising that house prices are so high. Unless there is a huge crash, and all the while that overseas money is buying up houses I don't see how a crash can happen, then London will remain in this bubble that prices out the average earner from getting a mortgage.
As far as building on brown space, whilst it makes sense to find a use for this space, I've seen so much said by developers about they don't want to build on that type of land because it is too complicated and costs too much money, so perhaps there is not the will of the construction industry to make it happen.
The number of homes owned by landlords that are subsequently rented out is huge now. They often rent out rooms to make it affordable.
I can't take anyone seriously that believes 350,000 net migrants a year has no impact on housing/rental prices. That even assumes those leaving the UK sell their homes.
How can anyone properly integrate under the current system?
If you move out of London, you are then faced with huge travel costs which offset the accommodation savings.
The average wage in London is... £28K I think in the last stats I saw published. Renting a
bedsitstudio flat that is accessible for work, for £1500 a month, certainly isn't this "accommodation ideally being no more than 30% of a persons income" that used to be bandied around (and still applies to plenty of places in Europe if the Metro/Standard are believable).People on average / below average wages?
Or people buying the houses?
Incredible phenomenon!
If the low skilled EU workers were coming over and buying up multiple properties each then yes I think you'd be spot on with your point. The problem is bigger than that though.
I've made up my mind about what I want to happen, the main thing I really hope is that everyone who can vote does, that way the decision will be made categorically with no argument on either side.
How? Because I've been told numerous times by prospective tenants that they're used to living like that so they're happy to continue doing so as it means their rental per head is dramatically reduced and they can send as much excess cash home as they like.
I've never taken advantage of this due to it being far outweighed by the standard of living some of these people adhere to. Maintaining the property becomes counterproductive due to the degradation rate. Also, you usually find sub letting happening whereby the 4 families per room increases to 6 families.
People shouldn't be forced to alter their living standards due to immigration and the living standards people bring with them.
Before anyone explodes in apoplectic rage, this isn't representative of all people chosing this wonderful country as their home, but it does happen and happens on a larger scale than some realise or care to admit.
I'm one of the good guys that ensures one family can continue to live in the conditions that they're accustomed to. I even lower the rents for them so they're not left with nothing after forking out.
Why would you not want our boarders controlled?
I travelled home from Brussels yesterday and had to navigate UK border control twice (once in another country !) so I can't quite understand your point.
Did you instead mean to ask "why would you not want immigration from specific other countries controlled ?
Quite different questions, and probably why I was the first person on many pages of debate to bother answering.
As the UK lies outside of Schengen I have yet to see any compelling reason that crossing borders would be any more difficult as a UK citizen than it currently is. Any conjecture to suggest it would be comes off as baseless fearmongering.
Okay let me put it to you this way. Net immigration at 380k I believe, give or take a few 1000, around half of which from the EU, made up skilled/unskilled people, why wouldn't you want a government that can control this, what with our run down and overcrowded public services?
Would you like this in larger font?
Eurostar is dong just fine against the airlines at present, revenue up 11% last year AFAIR. And no wonder. Live in Eltham, business in Brussels? Eurostar can get you there less than three hours after you left your house. Now work out how long that would take if you flew. But if you have to stop at Ashford, get out, faff around for an hour, when you could have been eating sleeping or working, get back in again, bang goes your advantage.
When was the last time you actually used Eurostar, Fishy?