This is only an issue in England because of the potential volatility at the top. In all the other top European leagues (bar Italy possibly) you know who will qualify every year. Barca, Real, PSG, Bayern it's not really an issue to have guaranteed places as they wil always qualify.
Agreed, but our clubs also seem to have developed a half-hearted approach to both the CL and Europa League. i.e. they want to qualify, but lose interest as the competition wears on. German teams seem to take both competitions very seriously, so they rack up lots of co-efficient points (or whatever they're called) and get the maximum no. of places in both.
This is only an issue in England because of the potential volatility at the top. In all the other top European leagues (bar Italy possibly) you know who will qualify every year. Barca, Real, PSG, Bayern it's not really an issue to have guaranteed places as they wil always qualify.
Agreed, but our clubs also seem to have developed a half-hearted approach to both the CL and Europa League. i.e. they want to qualify, but lose interest as the competition wears on. German teams seem to take both competitions very seriously, so they rack up lots of co-efficient points (or whatever they're called) and get the maximum no. of places in both.
We've done better in the Europa League this season. Indeed the prize of a Champions League place is quite attractive with the competition to get into the top 4!
Could be a tactical ploy by the big clubs to pressure UEFA for guaranteed wild cards into the CL and/or a change to qualifying rules to exclude smaller countries and give more places to the big countries.
(England is at serious risk of losing one of its CL places.)
This 100%
5 into 4 doesn't go at the best of times let alone when several of those 5 might not even qualify next season. They're probably horrified at not only Leicester qualifying but then flopping next season and ultimately costing English football it's 4th place. It's just the elite trying to look after themselves at the expense of everybody else.
Said it in another thread but English football needs bringing down a peg or two.
English football is silently dying. The number of men playing 11 a side football continues to drop; mainly due to the cost and availability of facilities. It will not be a surprise, but the UK spends the third lowest amount in Europe on grass root football and with local government cuts meaning more leisure centres are closing the situation is getting worse. The contribution from prem clubs is pitiful given the millions they get. You could argue that it is not their problem, but lower participants means lower funding from the sports foundation (which is getting cuts from Government funding anyway), and so the downward spiral continues.School pitches are being given up for housing which adds to the gloom and eventually, the home grown player supply will dry up. By the time they wake up to this it will all be too late. Kids will have found other ways to spend their time. The premier league teams should be having meetings on this rather than finding a way to make the trough bigger for themselves.
Could be a tactical ploy by the big clubs to pressure UEFA for guaranteed wild cards into the CL and/or a change to qualifying rules to exclude smaller countries and give more places to the big countries.
(England is at serious risk of losing one of its CL places.)
This 100%
5 into 4 doesn't go at the best of times let alone when several of those 5 might not even qualify next season. They're probably horrified at not only Leicester qualifying but then flopping next season and ultimately costing English football it's 4th place. It's just the elite trying to look after themselves at the expense of everybody else.
Said it in another thread but English football needs bringing down a peg or two.
Everyone.
The Sun's quote "Officials from England’s big five clubs held a secret meeting with American supremo Stephen Ross to discuss a Euro breakaway league". Stephen Ross wasn't at the meeting.
The clubs have come out since to say the meeting that was held was to discuss the pre-season International Cup which Ross organises.
Arsenal and Man U have since come out and said they are not interested in a breakaway league.
This was in the printed version of the article ‘Of course, at this stage, it was just a meeting. The agenda was secret’.
Can we all stop getting our knickers in a twist about this complete non-story?
I stopped reading the URL when I saw it was from The Sun.
Given how much money is to be made in the Premier League, why on earth would you want to break away? Even if (and it's a big if) there is as much/more to be made in the new super league, you wouldn't be eligible for the champions league and thus would have one league as an income source. Not to mention you'd be strengthening your rivals. Total nonsense. Slow news day.
You should have carried on reading. It's not about ditching the Premier League but the Champions League.
I caught it when it got picked up by more reputable sources.
I'm still not convinced there's much in this. I could see a version of the official line being trotted out, the "pre-season" or whatever friendly between top clubs. Except they may be looking at ways to play Premier League matches overseas, or holding some sort of tournament overseas. A resurrection of the 39th game type thing.
As for ditching the Champions League, England's coefficient is certainly in trouble. Spurs, United, and Liverpool advancing, along with City looking likely to advance should see England be clear of Italy for another year, with Napoli and Fiorentina out, the latter by Spurs. Juve mounted a great comeback in Munich but still have a lot to do, while Roma are effectively out. Lazio are still in the Europa league but aren't having a particularly good season. I know the coefficient is measured over a series of (three?) years and is more complicated than this, but I'm taking the lazy man's approach.
English clubs have had a poor couple years in the Champions League, which happens, these things are cyclical and one of them always seems to be drawn against Barcelona in the round of 16. It would beneficial to the English coefficient if teams started taking the Europa League seriously. This is what Italian teams did when they lost their fourth Champions League place to Germany, and it has paid dividends.
Dreadful idea that would probably be the death of football.
Also laughable that one of the main instigators are AC Milan, who haven't finished in the top 4 of their domestic league for at least five years now. Wonder what Napoli would have to say about their involvement?
Bayern München, Juventus, FC Barcelona, Manchester United, Arsenal, AC Milan were the teams apparently involved in trying to set it up.
I have been 'predicting' that this would happen for years .. it might not happen just yet, but eventually it'll be inevitable .. in England the 'top six' are getting richer and more untouchable and in the weaker Euro leagues the situation is much the same
unfortunately something like this is inevitable. It will proving an exciting novelty for a couple of years but will become predictably boring. Whereas Liverpool v Real Madrid may be an exciting diversion now, if these sort of games were regular the extra spice will be lost. The nostalgia of the Merseyside derby will be sorely missed. The majority of fans in England will get bored and not want to watch these games. At the moment if there were 2 games on Real v Bayern or Everton v Spurs, which would get the biggest audience? Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem. PS nothing to do with us anyway
unfortunately something like this is inevitable. It will proving an exciting novelty for a couple of years but will become predictably boring. Whereas Liverpool v Real Madrid may be an exciting diversion now, if these sort of games were regular the extra spice will be lost. The nostalgia of the Merseyside derby will be sorely missed. The majority of fans in England will get bored and not want to watch these games. At the moment if there were 2 games on Real v Bayern or Everton v Spurs, which would get the biggest audience? Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem. PS nothing to do with us anyway
I can't imagine that the majority of these clubs own fans would even want this to happen. Only 2 london derbies a season for Chelsea and Arsenal. No North London derby any more. No cup games.
European away trips are exciting, but when you have one every other week i'm sure the novelty will wear off and soon become unaffordable. Regular away travellers will now have to fork out for over a dozen away trips to Europe in a season, there won't be many who can a) afford it and b) get the time off work to go. And whilst a trip to the Nou Camp or Bernabeu is no doubt brilliant, when you have them every single season, you just won't keep going.
Also i can see it creating big problems at the clubs. Firstly, these clubs will have to leave their countries F.A. so will no longer have cup games so this Super league will literally be it. 34 games a season, with the majority of them huge games, so not much chance to rest your top players, so reserves will get the hump. How will managers keep a squad of 20-25 players happy?
Secondly the majority of these clubs will be used to winning trophies and at the very least, used to be being top 4 in their league, so how will the management and fans of clubs cope if their side is sitting in the bottom 3. Imagine the meltdown at Arsenal or United when their side is sitting 18th after losing yet again. They'll be desperate to get back to the premier league.
And who gets the final say on the 18 clubs? Why should AC Milan be in it, but not Napoli who are currently a much better side? Why should Arsenal be in it when they have won nothing of note, but not a side with a great european history like Ajax?
Wouldnt even be surprised though if the games werent always played at home stadiums yet instead played round the world like we see with that stupid International Champions Cup each summer.
You already hear of fans around the world on other message boards moaning that the likes of Man Utd should play outside Europe more because its unfair you can only see them in England blah blah blah
Best thing that could happen. Then a new TV deal for everyone else split equally between all 92 clubs.
I do realise that a number of "supporters" of the greedy few will continue to follow their clubs no matter what shit they throw at them - there are already Real Madrid "fans" in the UK with no Spanish connection. And young people, with their lack of local pride and desperate desire to attach themselves to success may approve, but FA's prediction of a worldwide circus may not be wide of the mark. That would certainly put the kybosh on a chunk of local support - as Chris_from_Sidcup says.
The idea that just one club from either one of Portugal, Russia, the Netherlands or Turkey gets to join the party would be interesting. How is that decided - highest bidder for the franchise, maybe? In Portugal I know that the concept of it not being Benfica would be unthinkable. They lost 3-1 at home to Moreirense last night by the way...
unfortunately something like this is inevitable. It will proving an exciting novelty for a couple of years but will become predictably boring. Whereas Liverpool v Real Madrid may be an exciting diversion now, if these sort of games were regular the extra spice will be lost. The nostalgia of the Merseyside derby will be sorely missed. The majority of fans in England will get bored and not want to watch these games. At the moment if there were 2 games on Real v Bayern or Everton v Spurs, which would get the biggest audience? Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem. PS nothing to do with us anyway
You're looking at it from the perspective of an English or European fan. These guys are thinking worldwide television and merchandising revenue.
Let them go, expel them from their own country's FA, and when they come crawling back in a few years time make them start from the very bottom or the ladder.
Let them go, expel them from their own country's FA, and when they come crawling back in a few years time make them start from the very bottom or the ladder.
This 100 % - in fact you've written just what I was going to say.
Let them go. Ban them from the fa cup, league Cup. And absolutely refuse to let them play an under 23 team in the Premier league.
The novelty will soon stop for fans in this country.
unfortunately something like this is inevitable. It will proving an exciting novelty for a couple of years but will become predictably boring. Whereas Liverpool v Real Madrid may be an exciting diversion now, if these sort of games were regular the extra spice will be lost. The nostalgia of the Merseyside derby will be sorely missed. The majority of fans in England will get bored and not want to watch these games. At the moment if there were 2 games on Real v Bayern or Everton v Spurs, which would get the biggest audience? Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem. PS nothing to do with us anyway
You're looking at it from the perspective of an English or European fan. These guys are thinking worldwide television and merchandising revenue.
I wonder how it would impact on merchandise revenue at certain clubs. For example, Man U have millions of fans because they've been successful for 20+ years, but i wonder how many of their worldwide fans will lose interest in them when they finish in the bottom half of the super league each season
unfortunately something like this is inevitable. It will proving an exciting novelty for a couple of years but will become predictably boring. Whereas Liverpool v Real Madrid may be an exciting diversion now, if these sort of games were regular the extra spice will be lost. The nostalgia of the Merseyside derby will be sorely missed. The majority of fans in England will get bored and not want to watch these games. At the moment if there were 2 games on Real v Bayern or Everton v Spurs, which would get the biggest audience? Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem. PS nothing to do with us anyway
You're looking at it from the perspective of an English or European fan. These guys are thinking worldwide television and merchandising revenue.
I wonder how it would impact on merchandise revenue at certain clubs. For example, Man U have millions of fans because they've been successful for 20+ years, but i wonder how many of their worldwide fans will lose interest in them when they finish in the bottom half of the super league each season
The New York Yankees have gone through long periods of not einning, but the brand has always sold.
They'll just set up their own 'b teams' in each league taking their position swapping first team and b team players at will thus keeping superstars fit and having the caveat of being able to see the super league players of the future.....Being able to have their cake and eat it, sadly all 92 clubs will agree in fear or losing the big attendances and branding 'pull' of the 'big' teams....UEFA and all FAs will breathe a sigh of relief at not losing 'their' assets.....
Comments
5 into 4 doesn't go at the best of times let alone when several of those 5 might not even qualify next season. They're probably horrified at not only Leicester qualifying but then flopping next season and ultimately costing English football it's 4th place. It's just the elite trying to look after themselves at the expense of everybody else.
Said it in another thread but English football needs bringing down a peg or two.
English football is silently dying. The number of men playing 11 a side football continues to drop; mainly due to the cost and availability of facilities. It will not be a surprise, but the UK spends the third lowest amount in Europe on grass root football and with local government cuts meaning more leisure centres are closing the situation is getting worse. The contribution from prem clubs is pitiful given the millions they get. You could argue that it is not their problem, but lower participants means lower funding from the sports foundation (which is getting cuts from Government funding anyway), and so the downward spiral continues.School pitches are being given up for housing which adds to the gloom and eventually, the home grown player supply will dry up.
By the time they wake up to this it will all be too late. Kids will have found other ways to spend their time. The premier league teams should be having meetings on this rather than finding a way to make the trough bigger for themselves.
The Sun's quote "Officials from England’s big five clubs held a secret meeting with American supremo Stephen Ross to discuss a Euro breakaway league". Stephen Ross wasn't at the meeting.
The clubs have come out since to say the meeting that was held was to discuss the pre-season International Cup which Ross organises.
Arsenal and Man U have since come out and said they are not interested in a breakaway league.
This was in the printed version of the article ‘Of course, at this stage, it was just a meeting. The agenda was secret’.
Can we all stop getting our knickers in a twist about this complete non-story?
I'm still not convinced there's much in this. I could see a version of the official line being trotted out, the "pre-season" or whatever friendly between top clubs. Except they may be looking at ways to play Premier League matches overseas, or holding some sort of tournament overseas. A resurrection of the 39th game type thing.
As for ditching the Champions League, England's coefficient is certainly in trouble. Spurs, United, and Liverpool advancing, along with City looking likely to advance should see England be clear of Italy for another year, with Napoli and Fiorentina out, the latter by Spurs. Juve mounted a great comeback in Munich but still have a lot to do, while Roma are effectively out. Lazio are still in the Europa league but aren't having a particularly good season. I know the coefficient is measured over a series of (three?) years and is more complicated than this, but I'm taking the lazy man's approach.
English clubs have had a poor couple years in the Champions League, which happens, these things are cyclical and one of them always seems to be drawn against Barcelona in the round of 16. It would beneficial to the English coefficient if teams started taking the Europa League seriously. This is what Italian teams did when they lost their fourth Champions League place to Germany, and it has paid dividends.
Documents Show Secret Plans for Elite League of Top Clubs
Bayern looked into leaving the Bundesliga in 2016 to form a European super league
The 17 teams with the strongest TV presences from England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France would compete permanently in a European league.
The Bundesliga clubs participating in the league would include Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04.
The 18th participant would be a team from Portugal, Russia, the Netherlands or Turkey.
The league would run for 34 weeks, with matches on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. There would be a knockout round at the end of the season.
Bayern specifically let lawyers check for the following:
Could the Super League clubs be held liable for any loss of revenue at UEFA?
Would the clubs still be required to allow their players to play for national teams after leaving UEFA?
Could the associations or leagues penalize players for participating in the Super League?
Could players have their contracts annulled if their club switched to a private Super League?
Also laughable that one of the main instigators are AC Milan, who haven't finished in the top 4 of their domestic league for at least five years now. Wonder what Napoli would have to say about their involvement?
It could be a good place to start.
Meanwhile the rest of the English league can get on with things and after a couple of years will flourish again. No long term problem.
PS nothing to do with us anyway
European away trips are exciting, but when you have one every other week i'm sure the novelty will wear off and soon become unaffordable. Regular away travellers will now have to fork out for over a dozen away trips to Europe in a season, there won't be many who can a) afford it and b) get the time off work to go. And whilst a trip to the Nou Camp or Bernabeu is no doubt brilliant, when you have them every single season, you just won't keep going.
Also i can see it creating big problems at the clubs. Firstly, these clubs will have to leave their countries F.A. so will no longer have cup games so this Super league will literally be it. 34 games a season, with the majority of them huge games, so not much chance to rest your top players, so reserves will get the hump. How will managers keep a squad of 20-25 players happy?
Secondly the majority of these clubs will be used to winning trophies and at the very least, used to be being top 4 in their league, so how will the management and fans of clubs cope if their side is sitting in the bottom 3. Imagine the meltdown at Arsenal or United when their side is sitting 18th after losing yet again. They'll be desperate to get back to the premier league.
And who gets the final say on the 18 clubs? Why should AC Milan be in it, but not Napoli who are currently a much better side? Why should Arsenal be in it when they have won nothing of note, but not a side with a great european history like Ajax?
Terrible idea all round.
You already hear of fans around the world on other message boards moaning that the likes of Man Utd should play outside Europe more because its unfair you can only see them in England blah blah blah
The idea that just one club from either one of Portugal, Russia, the Netherlands or Turkey gets to join the party would be interesting. How is that decided - highest bidder for the franchise, maybe? In Portugal I know that the concept of it not being Benfica would be unthinkable. They lost 3-1 at home to Moreirense last night by the way...
I would say they have to start at the bottom of the pyramid and work their way up.
Let them go. Ban them from the fa cup, league Cup. And absolutely refuse to let them play an under 23 team in the Premier league.
The novelty will soon stop for fans in this country.
English football is so much more than the top 6. Stuff them and if they want to bugger off please let them go willingly.