look you lot I'M NOT FUCKING STUPID I am just putting an alternative point of view, not necessarily one that I necessarily agree with but thought that it needed airing for intelligent discussion - it seems that is not the case
But its not really an alternative view? Its suggesting that RD has put his faith in people beneath him, ie KM, who have got it wrong. He is still ultimately responsible. He has not interfered yet in the youth teams (thank god) and the matchday experiences have produced mixed results. The pitch needed relaying and as someone said, would have been factored into the price, although some say Kermorgant's sale financed this anyway so what do we believe? I don't think you are presenting an alternative argument, just a slightly different one. I don't think any attempt that is perceived as defending the Belgians will be well received, as is evident from the abuse the likes of colin receive when they attempt to stir up controversy by sympathising with the Belgian lunatics.
Not read all the previous statements on this thread.
Am I the first to disagree with this statement :-)
Thanks for the reasoned debate which is why I started this thread.
My view is that he should replace KM now, she has completely failed to understand the ethos that is our club, she has completely mismanaged the recruitment of football coaches as well as upsetting a lot of good club staff and mismanaged her relationship with the fans.
As for RD, there are a number of foreign owners who stay away, if he admits his mistakes, recruits a competent CEO and gives that person the freedom and budget to make us a competitive Championship team then OK. If not please sell up and go.
My apology to all for blowing my top yesterday but sometimes things Charlton just get to me!
I suspect she now has a much better idea of the ethos of the club than he does.
Your looking at this objectively which is right. Most people are not naturally evil....it's just he's very good at interfering stupidly with the most important part and the thing that everyone cares about the most. The success of the 1st team...ultimately defines the direction of Charlton.
So all the other "nice things" that he does becomes almost completely irrelevant and he will stupidly feel unappreciated.
It's like living in a beautiful area perhaps by the beach or something....but you actually live in a shed with no roof, heating or important utilities. What's the F* cking point, you can't enjoy or really appricate your surroundings if your most important needs are not being met. The club is now a general shambles alot of things even now off the pitch are hopelessly wrong.
I also think there maybe some truth in what you said about him not having a clue how the club is actually being run and hes TRUSTED the wrong people. It's still all his fault though.
He is stil a wanker. (This bit included as flag repellent)
look you lot I'M NOT FUCKING STUPID I am just putting an alternative point of view, not necessarily one that I necessarily agree with but thought that it needed airing for intelligent discussion - it seems that is not the case
Well done LL. I always like an alternative view.
I agree with the first part of your piece. However, he has been so slow to listen, not only to fans but also the football media and ex-players who agree that the Belgian only managerial merry-go-round has been crazy and the player recruitment. He could have listened and invested in good talent scouts and an experienced manager and saved millions in the long run.
I've said the situation makes me more sad than angry.
I actually read and considered you thoughts but you don't help your argument by telling people the should F - Off and tha they are stupid!
The arguments about the investment in the academy and ground are seductive but are undermined by a wider consideration of RD's " model", appallingly inconsistent and ineffectual mangement, lack of understanding of English football (or any football!) and supporters, coupled with plain old fashioned arrogance and stubbornness.
Apparently a while back I wrote something in response to the original post by LL saying that I certainly agree with some of what is said. I never finished, didn't post, and have come back to a discussion on TSwift's nicknames (I think I'm outdated going with TSwift and not TSwizzle, though I think whoever went with "Tay Tay" is SO 2012).
I'm sick of hearing about the "decent" things that Roland has done for our club, albeit that even the most industrious ostrich amongst us finds it difficult to name more than a couple.
RD has NO interest whatsoever in Charlton Athletic, its supporters, its future, its history and will only spend an infinitesimal percentage of his wealth on things that will ultimately reward him.
I find myself too weary & too depressed to list said items but TBH , it's not a difficult task.
It is blatantly obvious to this protester that in his eyes he can do no wrong - that his sole raison d'etre is Roland Duchatelet.....no one else matters. He has no conscience. And undoubtedly sleeps the sleep of the just.
This man will NOT change his ways. His empty words hinting at lessons learned will echo around an all but empty Valley next season.
Every time I go to The Valley, I want to scream out loud that he is just WRONG on all counts ! And for the life of me I cannot understand why any real supporter would choose to defend him in any way. It's totally beyond my comprehension.
We have to do everything in our power to convince this mad man to go - to leave us to pick up the pieces of our ravished club before its very fabric is damaged beyond repair.
CARD, and all who sail with her, is doing a fantastic job as we are all aware and must be supported for as long as it takes. It's a no brainer. As such, we must encourage those who teeter on the brink, to join in the protests and make their voices heard. This is a battle we HAVE to win.
In King Harry 2's words " Will no-one rid us of this turbulent "prick" ? "
( "They've" even managed to bugger my quote button !)
Friends, Charlton fans, countrymen, lend me your ears; I come to bury Duchatelet, not to praise him. The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones; So let it be with Roland. The noble Henry, Hath told you Duchatelet was A tight Arse: If it were so, it was a grievous fault, And grievously hath Douchebag answer'd it. Here, under leave of Airman and the rest-- For Charlton fans are honourable men and Women; So are they all, all honourable men and women who doth protest; against the shrew Katrien and the follies of this template. Come I to speak in Roly's funeral.
On the non footballing side he has got the basics right in that he arranged to have the pitch replaced, the ground tarted up, Sparrows Lane improved, lowish admission and season ticket prices - as a non footballing person I'd expect he saw the problems, allocated budgets and told those who know to do the work - all good stuff so far.
Been meaning to reply to this for a while. I remember a while back you started a thread with "I may be crazy but..." (or something to that effect), and I agreed with you there. So it should be noted that I am probably crazy too.
On the non footballing side he has got the basics right ...
Very much agree on this, in addition to replacing the big screen. I know there are questions around the progress of Sparrows Lane, but if you'd asked me two years ago what I'd do with Charlton if I bought them, these would have probably been top of the list. Investing in infrastructure isn't sexy, and he should expect no praise for it (even though he has demanded praise for it), but from a business perspective it's the right thing to do. When I do consulting, the first thing I tell anyone I work for is to start by investing internally and work outward. Give him an A here.
He didn't mess with the under 21s or 18s and those teams are doing well - another tick in the box.
True, although "not messing with something" shouldn't really need to be praised. Has he invested in the U21s or U18s, scouting, modernizing player development, expanding staff and resources, all that? That's the kind of thing I would expect, especially with the regime's stated goals. I don't know that he really has. I'd give him a C here.
He has tied down our younger players to long term contracts - tick
...except for Diego. How long was Joe Gomez's contract when he left? B- here mostly for letting Diego get away for the tribunal fee, though it should be noted that there has at least been an effort to retain young talent.
Now we come to the first team which we all agree is rubbish, we can't say he hasn't spent money on it because he has, but he isn't a football man so who is he relying on to buy and sell players. Whoever they are, as we all know, have got it very wrong with the sale of Stephens, Kermorgant and Morrison who were sold for little and replaced with expensive sub standard players. This has carried on throughout the two years with the most recent examples of Johnson, Sanogo and Poyet being either unfit or unskilled. Whilst Duchatelet must take the ultimate blame as the owner it doesn't mean that he does not have the best intentions but he relies on the wrong people.
I agree. Was thinking about this last night, and Roland almost certainly does not scout, negotiate for, or sign the players. At least I hope not. That being said, the fact that we cannot point to who is signing the players, that there seems to be no continuity of vision, no oversight, and a lack of an extensive scouting network is poor. This is not necessarily down to him. There should be chairmen/women at the individual clubs running this. At Charlton, this is where he has fallen well short, and I think this is one of the biggest failures. If you have a business, you must staff it correctly. And that often means hiring 1-3 people to do just that. Again, I am unaware of such people.
As far as investment in the squad, I agree, there has been some. I am not someone who believes Roland is in this just for a quick buck. I think he is genuinely dedicated to a self-sustaining club, which is not a bad thing. The problem is, again, in the hiring. He has not hired people who have the cultural or business understanding of the game in England, where only a handful of clubs make a profit despite record revenue streams (this includes the Premier League). When there is a lack or leadership or poor leadership at any level, you have to look at the top.
D-, only because there is a willingness to spend.
He obviously has a belief that the matchday experience matters, now if the first team were performing reasonably well then I'm sure that the majority of us would put up with the sofa and other weird, sorry unique, experiments
As he is a successful businessman who I would guess must have good management teams in his companies it defies logic that he can't see that his management team/advisors for CAFC have got this part of the club so very wrong.
Just maybe he has suddenly realised that he has trusted the wrong people and this caused him to have a mental abboration which resulted in the statement.
The sofa thing is cute. Honestly, I'd quite like to sit there and have a pitch-side view. It's weird and unique, but it doesn't bother me so much. They get credit for thinking outside the box a bit.
The sex on the pitch bit was stupid, lazy, sensationalistic marketing. It doesn't fit with our "club's image," but also, it was a cheap gimmick.
Going back to my point above, when you have people in positions of leadership who are not properly equipped to do their jobs, blame has to start at the very top. I have had SO much of this in my career, and have been approached by my former company to do a Sr. VP role I was doing previously for 1/2 the cost and none of the recognition, hiding the incompetence of those above me who could not do their jobs properly. But you must blame the people who put them in that situation. This is part of the reason why I've started to empathize with Katrien. Her attitude doesn't help, she comes across as smug and condescending (for me the worst moment is when she started the presentation at the fan forum with "I thought we went over this already"). But at the end of the day, she does not seem to be equipped to do her job properly. And the blame for that has to lie with Roland.
If he has had a "come to Jesus" moment where he's realized he has not trusted the right people, he has done absolutely the wrong thing and had a stupid, petulant knee jerk reaction. For me, the statement was more a sign of intent to double down on his way of doing things. Had they come out in November, or January, or even this past week and said "we hear you, we need to do some thinking, but we promise we will engage more." and then proceeded to even make slow and subtle changes behind the scenes, I would have a lot more sympathy. But that hasn't happened, and instead he's had the typical response of someone who is wealthy and isolated and used to being in control losing control. This is yet another in the long list of things I've seen far too many times in my career. The last time it happened, I politely walked away because I felt that change would only come with a rock bottom moment of failure. I fear that's what it will take here.
F
All in all, I appreciate your post @lancashire lad I think it provides a good "counter point" to a lot of what goes on on here. Just read through some comments I missed the first time round, and I'm sorry to see people attacking you personally, and that you had to "read the liner notes aloud" by saying you were providing a counter point. Again, I think it's good for discussion.
Sometimes I think we get too used to seeing RD and KM as nefarious, evil, do-no-gooders and they seem to fall into the role of the pantomime villain. I don't think they're that necessarily. I don't think Roland is in this for a buck. I don't think he or KM are trying to ruin the club, far from it. I just think they're culturally, both in a business and in an overall cultural sense, clueless and out of their depth. Combine that with hubris, and a refusal to admit that, or seemingly even consider it, and you have what I consider to be a self-perpetuating problem.
If you have lost your head and all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you trust yourself when you really have no reason to, And if you have Duck Tape for a shoe; If you could sell, and not be tired by waiting, Or if your chief puppet only deals in lies, And all your customers are full of hating, And you don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you had a dream—but let money be your master; If you could think— just what is your game? If all you sow is despair and Disaster And treat the fans in a manner of shame; If you can't bear to hear the truth we’ve spoken You twist our words, pretend we're fools, Or watch the things you've stupidly broken, And try to build a team with worn-out tools:
You try to make one heap of all your winnings But risked it on a load of sub-Standard dross, You lose, and start again at your beginnings Charging 3% on each and every loss; If you can find your heart or nerve or sinew We'll be here after you are gone, Please leave our club as there is nothing for you Except the lunacy of holding on!’
The talk of the crowds is that you have no virtue, You walk with yes men who have common touch, Our club can't take this hurt from you, Good sense you've none, but money just too much; If you can't see the destruction for a minute With two years worth of incompetent run, Yours is a broken club and everything that’s in it, And—which is more—you’re an idiot and a C...!
Thanks for the post SDAddick - very thought provoking.
However, rightly or wrongly, short term success is primarily judged by "on field success", measured against realistic expectations. I would respectfully suggest that our expectations are between a safe Championship mid-table to Championship promotion seeking team.
The whole structure of the club is not set to achieve this short term aim. We suffer from a succession of coaches totally inexperienced in, and thus totally inadequate for, managing a Championship team. This, supported seemingly by inadequate coaches, leading to inadequate players, leading to our league position, which doesn't lie.
We are managed by a CEO who is totally out of her depth and who doesn't understand the importance of fans to a successful model. She doesn't understand that supporting a team is emotionally-based to a point that supporting a team is monogamous (many of us divorce wives but we never divorce ourselves from our chosen football team).
I agree that longer term ambitions may be based upon achieving sustainable long term Premier League status and to achieve that an excellent academy is one of, but not the sole, jigsaw pieces. I see no point in investing first in the academy at the expense of on-field short term success. Brick-by-brick should be the building plan but we are starting from a point of a glue-like bog, supporting a vision of despair.
Incidentally, does the "SD" in your name refer to South Dakota or am I wide of the mark?
Thanks for the post SDAddick - very thought provoking.
However, rightly or wrongly, short term success is primarily judged by "on field success", measured against realistic expectations. I would respectfully suggest that our expectations are between a safe Championship mid-table to Championship promotion seeking team.
The whole structure of the club is not set to achieve this short term aim. We suffer from a succession of coaches totally inexperienced in, and thus totally inadequate for, managing a Championship team. This, supported seemingly by inadequate coaches, leading to inadequate players, leading to our league position, which doesn't lie.
We are managed by a CEO who is totally out of her depth and who doesn't understand the importance of fans to a successful model. She doesn't understand that supporting a team is emotionally-based to a point that supporting a team is monogamous (many of us divorce wives but we never divorce ourselves from our chosen football team).
I agree that longer term ambitions may be based upon achieving sustainable long term Premier League status and to achieve that an excellent academy is one of, but not the sole, jigsaw pieces. I see no point in investing first in the academy at the expense of on-field short term success. Brick-by-brick should be the building plan but we are starting from a point of a glue-like bog, supporting a vision of despair.
Incidentally, does the "SD" in your name refer to South Dakota or am I wide of the mark?
Best regards
A very interesting read, and I largely agree. The place where I would differ, and this is somewhat semantics, is the notion that they should be judged solely on short term success. I think you can do a lot of things right, have a good manager, have decent players, and still have poor results. Given the status of the Championship this year, if they were getting everything else right but we were still in the position we're in, it would be hard to forgive. That said, there are scenarios in which teams do a lot of things right and still go down. Fulham have a group of decent players, have invested in their academy and have a mixture of young players and experienced Champo players with some from overseas, and a very good manager experienced in this league, and they are still flirting with relegation. There are certainly flaws there, mostly in their last couple of managerial decisions, but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to make. Sometimes football results can be fickle.
The other thing I would add is that a future in the Premier League should be A goal but not THE goal. With the money on offer, we've already seen the following teams taken over by Billionaires who seem willing to bankroll their way to the Premier League (where the real money is perceived to be): Fulham, Forest, QPR, Hull, Boro, Brentford, Reading, Cardiff (possibly more, this is just top of my head), this is not to mention Bournemouth and Watford who went up last year.
QPR, Forest, and Cardiff have all had transfer bans for their spending. And we need to only look at Bolton, Blackpool, or Wigan to see how quickly this model can fail.
My point is, in my mind, ensuring Championship continuity, through developing young players and investing in a good scouting network should be top priority. From there, it is always possible to have results go your way and find yourself in and around the playoffs or battling for promotion. Where I do agree with what Roland has *said*, and where I think he differs from other owners in a good way, is that he is not willing to JUST throw money at the problem. That out of the way, the way and the places where money is invested, or not invested, has been largely poor and illogical.
As far as not having the experienced personnel, I completely agree, and I put the blame for that solely on Roland. That also feeds into the poor investment decisions above.
Lastly, you're the second in as many days on here to ask about the SD=South Dakota thing. It actually stands for San Diego, a city I moved away from a couple weeks ago (good forsight on choosing a name there). Given I've lived most of my life in cities, South Dakota, beautiful though it is meant to be, would almost certainly kill me with it's wildlife and nature in ten minutes.
Interesting how acute the condemnation has been of this set of owners as soon as a really poor season happens.
I am aware that football has changed etc etc, that expectations have moved on, especially with supporters, but I don't recollect this level of hostility to the Gliksten's (who engaged with no one, and spent nothing on either players or the ground for nearly twenty years) when they presided over two relegations to the third tier (1972 and 1980)......the first of these being wholly avoidable.
Nor do I recollect this level of hostility towards Mark Hulyer, who effectively bankrupted us, in 1983/84.
Duchatelet has made - in my opinion - two serious and related errors. (1) Prior to purchasing Charlton he doesn't appear to have sought advice (from anyone) about how strong a league the Championship actually is, especially in contrast to the levels his other sides play at in Europe, and how much, therefore, he needed to invest in a side at our current level, and (2) He has selected his managers from a incredibly narrow field.......possibly the narrowest of any of the 23 English clubs that are now foreign owned.
Will it be fatal? No (he must be the wealthiest owner we've had since the hey day of the Gliksten's in the 30's and 40's) but we might not climb back to the Championship for a long time unless he changes tack.
One possibility - theoretical at this stage - not discussed is what might happen in the event of a Brexit. As a committed - like most Belgians - EU supporter would Roland sell up? Or would he keep us, but give up on further investment, and concentrate on Sint Truiden, Ujpest and Alcorcon? (Leaving us as a weak League One, going on League Two side?)
Anyway..........the investment in infrastructure + the continuation of the youth policy + the bringing in of a number of decent players (ok.....we could dispute who and at what cost, but, we've now got 10 full internationals in the squad) are all positives.
But he has undermined his own efforts (and our Championship survival) with the 2 failings shown above.
Interesting how acute the condemnation has been of this set of owners as soon as a really poor season happens.
I am aware that football has changed etc etc, that expectations have moved on, especially with supporters, but I don't recollect this level of hostility to the Gliksten's (who engaged with no one, and spent nothing on either players or the ground for nearly twenty years) when they presided over two relegations to the third tier (1972 and 1980)......the first of these being wholly avoidable.
Nor do I recollect this level of hostility towards Mark Hulyer, who effectively bankrupted us, in 1983/84.
Duchatelet has made - in my opinion - two serious and related errors. (1) Prior to purchasing Charlton he doesn't appear to have sought advice (from anyone) about how strong a league the Championship actually is, especially in contrast to the levels his other sides play at in Europe, and how much, therefore, he needed to invest in a side at our current level, and (2) He has selected his managers from a incredibly narrow field.......possibly the narrowest of any of the 23 English clubs that are now foreign owned.
Will it be fatal? No (he must be the wealthiest owner we've had since the hey day of the Gliksten's in the 30's and 40's) but we might not climb back to the Championship for a long time unless he changes tack.
One possibility - theoretical at this stage - not discussed is what might happen in the event of a Brexit. As a committed - like most Belgians - EU supporter would Roland sell up? Or would he keep us, but give up on further investment, and concentrate on Sint Truiden, Ujpest and Alcorcon? (Leaving us as a weak League One, going on League Two side?)
Anyway..........the investment in infrastructure + the continuation of the youth policy + the bringing in of a number of decent players (ok.....we could dispute who and at what cost, but, we've now got 10 full internationals in the squad) are all positives.
But he has undermined his own efforts (and our Championship survival) with the 2 failings shown above.
I don't think that it's a case of acute condemnation as soon as a really poor season happens. A lot of fans found the Duchatelet model disconcerting, some from the off (not enough, but some).
There were a number of occasions where "WTF" was the overall reaction to the regime's policies amongst the fans, but there was a willingness on the part of most to allow them a chance to learn from mistakes. However, we're not prepared to be used as some kind of experiment, and this season the patience ran out.
It's clear that the owner does not seek any advice from anyone with an understanding of English football, even now (not just prior to purchasing our club). The evidence so far does nothing to instil any confidence that what investment he has made is designed to benefit the club, rather than his business model (though I doubt very much if he can see a difference between the two). Put together the pronouncements of the regime mouthpiece, our fragrant and lovely CEO, in various fora, over the last two years and it is clear that we have an ownership that does not care one iota about the club, as far as they are concerned, they own it and can do what they like.
I accept that, if the Duchatelet model actually worked, it would not be likely that the protests would have generated momentum. Indeed, had the regime genuinely addressed last season's unrest and the original Spell It Out campaign, they might even have avoided protests even with the model.
But they didn't, and the results this season are a symptom of the malaise facing our club, as are the protests, the cause is the regime.
I accept that, if the Duchatelet model actually worked, it would not be likely that the protests would have generated momentum. Indeed, had the regime genuinely addressed last season's unrest and the original Spell It Out campaign, they might even have avoided protests even with the model.
I have to disagree with this bit. It's clear to me that Duchatelet's model is completely at odds with our notion of what constitutes a football club. The number one cause of dissatisfaction is that the club no longer "feels" right. Couple that with disaster on the pitch and incompetence in the senior management and we are where we are.
It's not xenophobia. It's a distaste for a model with compete disregard for the legacy of the club. The only way they could have "genuinely addressed last season's unrest" was to completely change the model. The model is flawed, as we can see, but it's the only thing driving Roland's interest in football. It's not the beautiful game; it's a numbers game.
Duchatelet is using our club to build a monument to his own stupidity. By using our club, he's trampling the memories and achievements of generations of Charlton supporters, players, management and custodians; doing virtually irreparable damage to our legacy in order to build his own.
By all means Roland, start your own English football club. Drive success from the Conference to the Football League and then mount a claim in each successive division with whatever model you so choose. Prove to us that you're model works. Prove your genius to the world. Prove the superiority of numbers.
If you're thinking the other thing that I'm thinking, a nudge towards CARD might be a wise move....
Does anything you are thinking involve Mrs O'Malley's sweet shop in Enniskillen and Ritchie's Cinnamon Lozenges?
Is Mrs O'Malley's still open?
I don't know, though, in my opinion, Enniskillen went seriously downhill when Hanna's was taken over by Eason's.
I would put equal weight on the replacement of Woolworths with B and M Bargains. Or the deliberate lack of an Omagh Express bus - instead they have one that takes about 3 hours and goes around so many holes in the hedges it makes Katrien's statements look very direct!
I accept that, if the Duchatelet model actually worked, it would not be likely that the protests would have generated momentum. Indeed, had the regime genuinely addressed last season's unrest and the original Spell It Out campaign, they might even have avoided protests even with the model.
I have to disagree with this bit. It's clear to me that Duchatelet's model is completely at odds with our notion of what constitutes a football club. The number one cause of dissatisfaction is that the club no longer "feels" right. Couple that with disaster on the pitch and incompetence in the senior management and we are where we are.
It's not xenophobia. It's a distaste for a model with compete disregard for the legacy of the club. The only way they could have "genuinely addressed last season's unrest" was to completely change the model. The model is flawed, as we can see, but it's the only thing driving Roland's interest in football. It's not the beautiful game; it's a numbers game.
Duchatelet is using our club to build a monument to his own stupidity. By using our club, he's trampling the memories and achievements of generations of Charlton supporters, players, management and custodians; doing virtually irreparable damage to our legacy in order to build his own.
By all means Roland, start your own English football club. Drive success from the Conference to the Football League and then mount a claim in each successive division with whatever model you so choose. Prove to us that you're model works. Prove your genius to the world. Prove the superiority of numbers.
Just leave our club to us.
I don't disagree with anything that you have said, it's just that, if the regime had been amazingly lucky this season with injuries, and the team looked competitive, the numbers willing to protest would have been less. Look at the numbers, thankfully declining, that see no point in complaining, even now.
Also, a significant part of our feeling of disconnect with the club at the moment is down to the lack of even the semblance of them listening to the fans.
I feel that the model is totally wrong, and I have felt for more than this season that the Academy is only being developed as a kind of puppy farm (Roland knows that Premier League clubs will pay a premium for half-decent English players).
at a recent match I chatted to one of our supporters who I hadn't met for some time. He attends a lot of home and away games and has supported the team for many years. He pointed to my black and white scarf saying that he did not agree with it and having been a regular on CL now rarely visits. He does not agree with the protests as he sees no alternative to RD and from what he said does not think that the Varney alternative is feasible. He does not like some of the protests with the obscene chants nor the whistleblowing during the Middlesbro' match.
I am not saying that he is right but he has a point of view which I expect is shared by more than 2% of our fans and they should not be ignored. CARD need to find a way of persuading these fans and need to ensure that the protests do not further antagonise them.
Comments
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If so, you probably should seek help.
If you're thinking the other thing that I'm thinking, a nudge towards CARD might be a wise move....
Am I the first to disagree with this statement :-)
So all the other "nice things" that he does becomes almost completely irrelevant and he will stupidly feel unappreciated.
It's like living in a beautiful area perhaps by the beach or something....but you actually live in a shed with no roof, heating or important utilities. What's the F* cking point, you can't enjoy or really appricate your surroundings if your most important needs are not being met. The club is now a general shambles alot of things even now off the pitch are hopelessly wrong.
I also think there maybe some truth in what you said about him not having a clue how the club is actually being run and hes TRUSTED the wrong people. It's still all his fault though.
He is stil a wanker. (This bit included as flag repellent)
I agree with the first part of your piece. However, he has been so slow to listen, not only to fans but also the football media and ex-players who agree that the Belgian only managerial merry-go-round has been crazy and the player recruitment. He could have listened and invested in good talent scouts and an experienced manager and saved millions in the long run.
I've said the situation makes me more sad than angry.
The arguments about the investment in the academy and ground are seductive but are undermined by a wider consideration of RD's " model", appallingly inconsistent and ineffectual mangement, lack of understanding of English football (or any football!) and supporters, coupled with plain old fashioned arrogance and stubbornness.
And Katrien!
So no he has not got it right!
I didn't say anyone is stupid, just that I'm not
I'm sick of hearing about the "decent" things that Roland has done for our club, albeit that even the most industrious ostrich amongst us finds it difficult to name more than a couple.
RD has NO interest whatsoever in Charlton Athletic, its supporters, its future, its history and will only spend an infinitesimal percentage of his wealth on things that will ultimately reward him.
I find myself too weary & too depressed to list said items but TBH , it's not a difficult task.
It is blatantly obvious to this protester that in his eyes he can do no wrong - that his sole raison d'etre is Roland Duchatelet.....no one else matters. He has no conscience. And undoubtedly sleeps the sleep of the just.
This man will NOT change his ways. His empty words hinting at lessons learned will echo around an all but empty Valley next season.
Every time I go to The Valley, I want to scream out loud that he is just WRONG on all counts ! And for the life of me I cannot understand why any real supporter would choose to defend him in any way. It's totally beyond my comprehension.
We have to do everything in our power to convince this mad man to go - to leave us to pick up the pieces of our ravished club before its very fabric is damaged beyond repair.
CARD, and all who sail with her, is doing a fantastic job as we are all aware and must be supported for as long as it takes. It's a no brainer. As such, we must encourage those who teeter on the brink, to join in the protests and make their voices heard. This is a battle we HAVE to win.
In King Harry 2's words " Will no-one rid us of this turbulent "prick" ? "
( "They've" even managed to bugger my quote button !)
I come to bury Duchatelet, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Roland. The noble Henry,
Hath told you Duchatelet was A tight Arse:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Douchebag answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Airman and the rest--
For Charlton fans are honourable men and Women;
So are they all, all honourable men and women who doth protest;
against the shrew Katrien and the follies of this template.
Come I to speak in Roly's funeral.
On the non footballing side he has got the basics right ...
Very much agree on this, in addition to replacing the big screen. I know there are questions around the progress of Sparrows Lane, but if you'd asked me two years ago what I'd do with Charlton if I bought them, these would have probably been top of the list. Investing in infrastructure isn't sexy, and he should expect no praise for it (even though he has demanded praise for it), but from a business perspective it's the right thing to do. When I do consulting, the first thing I tell anyone I work for is to start by investing internally and work outward. Give him an A here.
He didn't mess with the under 21s or 18s and those teams are doing well - another tick in the box.
True, although "not messing with something" shouldn't really need to be praised. Has he invested in the U21s or U18s, scouting, modernizing player development, expanding staff and resources, all that? That's the kind of thing I would expect, especially with the regime's stated goals. I don't know that he really has. I'd give him a C here.
He has tied down our younger players to long term contracts - tick
...except for Diego. How long was Joe Gomez's contract when he left? B- here mostly for letting Diego get away for the tribunal fee, though it should be noted that there has at least been an effort to retain young talent.
Now we come to the first team which we all agree is rubbish, we can't say he hasn't spent money on it because he has, but he isn't a football man so who is he relying on to buy and sell players. Whoever they are, as we all know, have got it very wrong with the sale of Stephens, Kermorgant and Morrison who were sold for little and replaced with expensive sub standard players. This has carried on throughout the two years with the most recent examples of Johnson, Sanogo and Poyet being either unfit or unskilled. Whilst Duchatelet must take the ultimate blame as the owner it doesn't mean that he does not have the best intentions but he relies on the wrong people.
I agree. Was thinking about this last night, and Roland almost certainly does not scout, negotiate for, or sign the players. At least I hope not. That being said, the fact that we cannot point to who is signing the players, that there seems to be no continuity of vision, no oversight, and a lack of an extensive scouting network is poor. This is not necessarily down to him. There should be chairmen/women at the individual clubs running this. At Charlton, this is where he has fallen well short, and I think this is one of the biggest failures. If you have a business, you must staff it correctly. And that often means hiring 1-3 people to do just that. Again, I am unaware of such people.
As far as investment in the squad, I agree, there has been some. I am not someone who believes Roland is in this just for a quick buck. I think he is genuinely dedicated to a self-sustaining club, which is not a bad thing. The problem is, again, in the hiring. He has not hired people who have the cultural or business understanding of the game in England, where only a handful of clubs make a profit despite record revenue streams (this includes the Premier League). When there is a lack or leadership or poor leadership at any level, you have to look at the top.
D-, only because there is a willingness to spend.
He obviously has a belief that the matchday experience matters, now if the first team were performing reasonably well then I'm sure that the majority of us would put up with the sofa and other weird, sorry unique, experiments
As he is a successful businessman who I would guess must have good management teams in his companies it defies logic that he can't see that his management team/advisors for CAFC have got this part of the club so very wrong.
Just maybe he has suddenly realised that he has trusted the wrong people and this caused him to have a mental abboration which resulted in the statement.
The sofa thing is cute. Honestly, I'd quite like to sit there and have a pitch-side view. It's weird and unique, but it doesn't bother me so much. They get credit for thinking outside the box a bit.
The sex on the pitch bit was stupid, lazy, sensationalistic marketing. It doesn't fit with our "club's image," but also, it was a cheap gimmick.
Going back to my point above, when you have people in positions of leadership who are not properly equipped to do their jobs, blame has to start at the very top. I have had SO much of this in my career, and have been approached by my former company to do a Sr. VP role I was doing previously for 1/2 the cost and none of the recognition, hiding the incompetence of those above me who could not do their jobs properly. But you must blame the people who put them in that situation. This is part of the reason why I've started to empathize with Katrien. Her attitude doesn't help, she comes across as smug and condescending (for me the worst moment is when she started the presentation at the fan forum with "I thought we went over this already"). But at the end of the day, she does not seem to be equipped to do her job properly. And the blame for that has to lie with Roland.
If he has had a "come to Jesus" moment where he's realized he has not trusted the right people, he has done absolutely the wrong thing and had a stupid, petulant knee jerk reaction. For me, the statement was more a sign of intent to double down on his way of doing things. Had they come out in November, or January, or even this past week and said "we hear you, we need to do some thinking, but we promise we will engage more." and then proceeded to even make slow and subtle changes behind the scenes, I would have a lot more sympathy. But that hasn't happened, and instead he's had the typical response of someone who is wealthy and isolated and used to being in control losing control. This is yet another in the long list of things I've seen far too many times in my career. The last time it happened, I politely walked away because I felt that change would only come with a rock bottom moment of failure. I fear that's what it will take here.
F
All in all, I appreciate your post @lancashire lad I think it provides a good "counter point" to a lot of what goes on on here. Just read through some comments I missed the first time round, and I'm sorry to see people attacking you personally, and that you had to "read the liner notes aloud" by saying you were providing a counter point. Again, I think it's good for discussion.
Sometimes I think we get too used to seeing RD and KM as nefarious, evil, do-no-gooders and they seem to fall into the role of the pantomime villain. I don't think they're that necessarily. I don't think Roland is in this for a buck. I don't think he or KM are trying to ruin the club, far from it. I just think they're culturally, both in a business and in an overall cultural sense, clueless and out of their depth. Combine that with hubris, and a refusal to admit that, or seemingly even consider it, and you have what I consider to be a self-perpetuating problem.
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you trust yourself when you really have no reason to,
And if you have Duck Tape for a shoe;
If you could sell, and not be tired by waiting,
Or if your chief puppet only deals in lies,
And all your customers are full of hating,
And you don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you had a dream—but let money be your master;
If you could think— just what is your game?
If all you sow is despair and Disaster
And treat the fans in a manner of shame;
If you can't bear to hear the truth we’ve spoken
You twist our words, pretend we're fools,
Or watch the things you've stupidly broken,
And try to build a team with worn-out tools:
You try to make one heap of all your winnings
But risked it on a load of sub-Standard dross,
You lose, and start again at your beginnings
Charging 3% on each and every loss;
If you can find your heart or nerve or sinew
We'll be here after you are gone,
Please leave our club as there is nothing for you
Except the lunacy of holding on!’
The talk of the crowds is that you have no virtue,
You walk with yes men who have common touch,
Our club can't take this hurt from you,
Good sense you've none, but money just too much;
If you can't see the destruction for a minute
With two years worth of incompetent run,
Yours is a broken club and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’re an idiot and a C...!
However, rightly or wrongly, short term success is primarily judged by "on field success", measured against realistic expectations. I would respectfully suggest that our expectations are between a safe Championship mid-table to Championship promotion seeking team.
The whole structure of the club is not set to achieve this short term aim. We suffer from a succession of coaches totally inexperienced in, and thus totally inadequate for, managing a Championship team. This, supported seemingly by inadequate coaches, leading to inadequate players, leading to our league position, which doesn't lie.
We are managed by a CEO who is totally out of her depth and who doesn't understand the importance of fans to a successful model. She doesn't understand that supporting a team is emotionally-based to a point that supporting a team is monogamous (many of us divorce wives but we never divorce ourselves from our chosen football team).
I agree that longer term ambitions may be based upon achieving sustainable long term Premier League status and to achieve that an excellent academy is one of, but not the sole, jigsaw pieces. I see no point in investing first in the academy at the expense of on-field short term success. Brick-by-brick should be the building plan but we are starting from a point of a glue-like bog, supporting a vision of despair.
Incidentally, does the "SD" in your name refer to South Dakota or am I wide of the mark?
Best regards
The other thing I would add is that a future in the Premier League should be A goal but not THE goal. With the money on offer, we've already seen the following teams taken over by Billionaires who seem willing to bankroll their way to the Premier League (where the real money is perceived to be):
Fulham, Forest, QPR, Hull, Boro, Brentford, Reading, Cardiff (possibly more, this is just top of my head), this is not to mention Bournemouth and Watford who went up last year.
QPR, Forest, and Cardiff have all had transfer bans for their spending. And we need to only look at Bolton, Blackpool, or Wigan to see how quickly this model can fail.
My point is, in my mind, ensuring Championship continuity, through developing young players and investing in a good scouting network should be top priority. From there, it is always possible to have results go your way and find yourself in and around the playoffs or battling for promotion. Where I do agree with what Roland has *said*, and where I think he differs from other owners in a good way, is that he is not willing to JUST throw money at the problem. That out of the way, the way and the places where money is invested, or not invested, has been largely poor and illogical.
As far as not having the experienced personnel, I completely agree, and I put the blame for that solely on Roland. That also feeds into the poor investment decisions above.
Lastly, you're the second in as many days on here to ask about the SD=South Dakota thing. It actually stands for San Diego, a city I moved away from a couple weeks ago (good forsight on choosing a name there). Given I've lived most of my life in cities, South Dakota, beautiful though it is meant to be, would almost certainly kill me with it's wildlife and nature in ten minutes.
I am aware that football has changed etc etc, that expectations have moved on, especially with supporters, but I don't recollect this level of hostility to the Gliksten's (who engaged with no one, and spent nothing on either players or the ground for nearly twenty years) when they presided over two relegations to the third tier (1972 and 1980)......the first of these being wholly avoidable.
Nor do I recollect this level of hostility towards Mark Hulyer, who effectively bankrupted us, in 1983/84.
Duchatelet has made - in my opinion - two serious and related errors. (1) Prior to purchasing Charlton he doesn't appear to have sought advice (from anyone) about how strong a league the Championship actually is, especially in contrast to the levels his other sides play at in Europe, and how much, therefore, he needed to invest in a side at our current level, and (2) He has selected his managers from a incredibly narrow field.......possibly the narrowest of any of the 23 English clubs that are now foreign owned.
Will it be fatal? No (he must be the wealthiest owner we've had since the hey day of the Gliksten's in the 30's and 40's) but we might not climb back to the Championship for a long time unless he changes tack.
One possibility - theoretical at this stage - not discussed is what might happen in the event of a Brexit. As a committed - like most Belgians - EU supporter would Roland sell up? Or would he keep us, but give up on further investment, and concentrate on Sint Truiden, Ujpest and Alcorcon? (Leaving us as a weak League One, going on League Two side?)
Anyway..........the investment in infrastructure + the continuation of the youth policy + the bringing in of a number of decent players (ok.....we could dispute who and at what cost, but, we've now got 10 full internationals in the squad) are all positives.
But he has undermined his own efforts (and our Championship survival) with the 2 failings shown above.
There were a number of occasions where "WTF" was the overall reaction to the regime's policies amongst the fans, but there was a willingness on the part of most to allow them a chance to learn from mistakes. However, we're not prepared to be used as some kind of experiment, and this season the patience ran out.
It's clear that the owner does not seek any advice from anyone with an understanding of English football, even now (not just prior to purchasing our club). The evidence so far does nothing to instil any confidence that what investment he has made is designed to benefit the club, rather than his business model (though I doubt very much if he can see a difference between the two). Put together the pronouncements of the regime mouthpiece, our fragrant and lovely CEO, in various fora, over the last two years and it is clear that we have an ownership that does not care one iota about the club, as far as they are concerned, they own it and can do what they like.
I accept that, if the Duchatelet model actually worked, it would not be likely that the protests would have generated momentum. Indeed, had the regime genuinely addressed last season's unrest and the original Spell It Out campaign, they might even have avoided protests even with the model.
But they didn't, and the results this season are a symptom of the malaise facing our club, as are the protests, the cause is the regime.
It's not xenophobia. It's a distaste for a model with compete disregard for the legacy of the club. The only way they could have "genuinely addressed last season's unrest" was to completely change the model. The model is flawed, as we can see, but it's the only thing driving Roland's interest in football. It's not the beautiful game; it's a numbers game.
Duchatelet is using our club to build a monument to his own stupidity. By using our club, he's trampling the memories and achievements of generations of Charlton supporters, players, management and custodians; doing virtually irreparable damage to our legacy in order to build his own.
By all means Roland, start your own English football club. Drive success from the Conference to the Football League and then mount a claim in each successive division with whatever model you so choose. Prove to us that you're model works. Prove your genius to the world. Prove the superiority of numbers.
Just leave our club to us.
Also, a significant part of our feeling of disconnect with the club at the moment is down to the lack of even the semblance of them listening to the fans.
I feel that the model is totally wrong, and I have felt for more than this season that the Academy is only being developed as a kind of puppy farm (Roland knows that Premier League clubs will pay a premium for half-decent English players).
He pointed to my black and white scarf saying that he did not agree with it and having been a regular on CL now rarely visits.
He does not agree with the protests as he sees no alternative to RD and from what he said does not think that the Varney alternative is feasible. He does not like some of the protests with the obscene chants nor the whistleblowing during the Middlesbro' match.
I am not saying that he is right but he has a point of view which I expect is shared by more than 2% of our fans and they should not be ignored. CARD need to find a way of persuading these fans and need to ensure that the protests do not further antagonise them.
The difference is when he talks people listen. Roland however no one cares what he says
Also most of what Icke says is true and has come true, time and time he has been proven to be correct. Duchatelet however is always wrong!!!
I also believe we are ruled by lizards so there ya go
Lol away