Jutland
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RIP to all those heroes0
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Brave men died for their country. RIP0
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RIP0
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RIP.0
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RIP
a good few were boys 15/16 / 170 -
RIP the 6,784.
First shots fired at 15.48, 100 years ago.0 -
The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP0 -
RIP to your great grandfather and all those that lost their lives.Bigbadbozman said:The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP
I was watching some of the ceremony from Kirkwall earlier in the gym at my nice, comfortable, office in the City and it really struck me how fortunate I am to have my life in 2016 which wouldn't have been possible if boys half the age that I am now hadn't made the sacrifice that they did 100 years ago (and more recently). I am a direct beneficiary of their heroism and I've done nothing to dererve it but be born in the country that they were trying to defend.4 -
Not a lot wrong with the design of the Invincible or the way it was built by Armstrong Whitworth. Don't forget, along with the Inflexible, she sank the Scharnorst and Gneisenau in the Falklands even after taken several hits.Bigbadbozman said:The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP
The real problem was with Beatty's gung ho approach, demanding a higher rate of fire than the enemy and therefore ensuring both shells and cordite were stored in large quantities for easy and rapid loading of the 12 inch guns rather than being sent up from the bowels of the ship from the magazine. Blast doors were also kept open to speed up the rate of fire. One shell exploding around the Q Turret of the 12 inchers and goodnight one Battlecruiser.
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All within a short drive of where I live here in the Canadian Rockies we have mountains named around the end of the war after all the Britsish battle ships sunk at Jutland. There is also Mount Jellicoe & Mount Beatty. Lots of the peaks, glaciers and other terrain have names from that conflict from both the British & French sides - not sure how many people make this connection as they drive past Mount Joffre or hear about the Haig Glacier.
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-jellicoe/848177
http://www.summitpost.org/mount-indefatigable/154593
http://www.peakfinder.com/peakfinder.ASP?PeakName=mount+invincible
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Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.0
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Fascinating LG - You should do some more research.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
Although the Bellerophon was at Jutland, it didn't receive a single hit from the High Seas Fleet.
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Have exhausted all resources this side of The Atlantic. Plan on spending some time researching next trip over. You've already given me information I didn't have.Addickted said:
Fascinating LG - You should do some more research.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
Although the Bellerophon was at Jutland, it didn't receive a single hit from the High Seas Fleet.0 -
Royal Navy Service Records should give you a decent starting point. After that census and electoral roll.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
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Do you know his name and number?limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
Worth trying lives of WW1 on the Imperial War Museum site as building communities of Jutland ship mates.0 -
Couldn't find anything of any use on the commercial geneology sites, Imperial War Museum will be first stop when I come over next. (Other than fish and chip shop.) Meantime will look at their website, thanks.1
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Will have a look, thanks.ShootersHillGuru said:
Royal Navy Service Records should give you a decent starting point. After that census and electoral roll.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
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I knew there was something I'd promised myself I would do, other than check every five minutes who our new manager might be.0
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Royal Navy Ratings - Service Records - 1853 - 1928
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-navy-ratings-service-records-1853-1928/1 -
RIP to those brave lads.0
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Addickted said:
Not a lot wrong with the design of the Invincible or the way it was built by Armstrong Whitworth. Don't forget, along with the Inflexible, she sank the Scharnorst and Gneisenau in the Falklands even after taken several hits.Bigbadbozman said:The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP
FIrst Sea Lord Fisher wanted ships with big guns and fast speed, and the battlecruisers like Invincible were lightly armoured. This was fine when up against the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau where the battle cruisers made sure that the German ships 7 inch guns couldn't reach, and could be picked off by their own 12" guns. They received a few hits from the Germans longer ranged 5" guns, which they could survive ok.
However when they came up against other Battleships and Battlecrusers at Jutland their lack of armour (about half of the German ships), showed as a weakness. Mind you as you mentioned propping open anti- blast doors and leaving drums of cordite around doesn't help.
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My great uncle Bob Sims in centre pictured in 1917 who served at Jutland
Uncle Bob helped dig out the Valley in 1919 so starting the family connection to the club
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My Grandfather Andrew Patrick "Buster" Hayes.
Served at Jutland on HMS Vanguard
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Well done uncle Bob.Henry Irving said:My great uncle Bob Sims in centre pictured in 1917 who served at Jutland
Uncle Bob helped dig out the Valley in 1919 so starting the family connection to the club
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Can't see the family resemblance there at all.
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I was under the impression that most of the armour on the decks was stripped down on a lot of the ships of that time, the loss of the weight aided with the speed they wantedHalix said:Addickted said:
Not a lot wrong with the design of the Invincible or the way it was built by Armstrong Whitworth. Don't forget, along with the Inflexible, she sank the Scharnorst and Gneisenau in the Falklands even after taken several hits.Bigbadbozman said:The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP
FIrst Sea Lord Fisher wanted ships with big guns and fast speed, and the battlecruisers like Invincible were lightly armoured. This was fine when up against the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau where the battle cruisers made sure that the German ships 7 inch guns couldn't reach, and could be picked off by their own 12" guns. They received a few hits from the Germans longer ranged 5" guns, which they could survive ok.
However when they came up against other Battleships and Battlecrusers at Jutland their lack of armour (about half of the German ships), showed as a weakness. Mind you as you mentioned propping open anti- blast doors and leaving drums of cordite around doesn't help.
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Interesting that while my grandfather was serving in The Navy at Jutland, HIS father was serving in the British army in France, at the age of 45. Puts our current daily struggles in perspective.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
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Not so much the designers, more the command chain that wanted rapid fire so cut corners on safety between the magazines and the turrets. The Germans sacrificed rate of fire for a system that stopped any explosion in the turrent spreading via the barbette to the magazine.Bigbadbozman said:The Royal Navy ship designers have a lot to answer for, my Great Grandfather was one of the poor unfortunate souls to lose their life on HMS Invincible 1020 in total with only 6 survivors.
RIP0 -
Not impressed by the little Englander who says we were saved from the Nazis.Henry Irving said:0 -
This was the case with most of the British capital ships, thank your deity of choice and Jellicoe deploying the Grand Fleet correctly so as to cross the Germans' T. HMS Lion was only saved from blowing up by Major Harvey* in Q turret who ordered the turret's magazine to be flooded. Some of the British ships did receive hits and survived, most notably HMS Warspite which came under fire from a fair proportion of the High Seas Fleet when its rudder jammed. Maybe it didn't take a hit on a turrent, or maybe it did and had proper procedures in place to stop flash spreading, but it took over thirty hits and made its own way back to Rosyth.Addickted said:
Fascinating LG - You should do some more research.limeygent said:Would love to know what happened to my grandfather. He was on HMS Bellerophon at Jutland, after that nothing heard of him. Don't know if he was lost in battle or wandered off somewhere for other reasons.
Although the Bellerophon was at Jutland, it didn't receive a single hit from the High Seas Fleet.
*If you're wondering why there was a Major on a ship, he was in the Marines and it was customary for one turret to manned by the Marines.0
