Being such a social species we live our lives crowded together. It makes us extraordinarily vulnerable. Recall the damage done in the 2009 Queen's Day attack on the Dutch royal family in Apeldoorn - using just a private car the perp forfeited not only his own life but took seven other innocent ones with him. Truly, profoundly shocked at last night's carnage. R.I.P.
@i_b_b_o_r_g - what's the mood in France been like recently?
I read this article 2 days ago in The Express, where the Director General of Internal Security suggested it was almost close to civil war. He went as far as to say that one more attack could provide the catalyst.
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We hardly venture into any big towns much tbh Lucky. But locally, whenever this subject comes up, the French folk I know personally just kind of shrug their shoulders and say its not good.
I do know a couple of lads from Toulouse who have been posting stuff on their Facebook accounts over the last few years that suggests they have got the hump with certain parts of French society.
I don't agree with some of the comments earlier in this thread, but I don't think this is the time to argue over opinions on why some one would do such a thing.
I am cycling from London to Monte Carlo in 4 days time, passing through Nice on the way. Made me even more nervous now. What a terrible shock and a nasty evil attack to once again innocent people.
France's absolutely lacklustre police being shown up again. Needs a serious overhaul, the attacks on France are almost as common as those in Turkey/ Iraq etc. a HIC Western European country should be catching this much, much earlier.
Tbh mate, it looks like the Police on the scene prevented this from being even worse, considering he appears to have had a mini arsenal in that lorry with him
Perhaps, but what is it, 73? dead. Attacks across the UK and USA are thwarted all the time, but a hell of a lot more seem to 'make it through' in France. Not the men on the street police, there is clearly some kind of issue with the intelligence area.
Really? Do we know how many attacks are thwarted in the UK v France? Maybe they just have a much bigger problem than we do.
As a species and for all of our modern technology, learning and supposed humanity, we really are sorry specimens. When is all the bloodshed in this world going to stop and different cultures can learn to live alongside each other in relative peace, my thoughts are with the poor victims families and loved ones tonight...needless loss, another sad day
We are sorry specimens? I find that statement insulting.
Are you deliberately choosing to not acknowledge the particular culture/religion responsible for this attack?
Are you deliberately choosing to ignore attacks all over the world by many cultures/religions?
I have to agree, for all our intellect and wisdom, we really are a sad, self hating species.
Are you suggesting that all religions/cultures across the world are perpetrating these vile attacks against innocent people? Are you suggesting that it is not the case that 99% of these attacks are perpetrated by followers of Islam?
Please think before posting and going too deep / focused with your view please. Not the type of thread we'd like to be dominated / taken in a different direction. Thanks
I'm one of those people that keep on saying that if you let it affect your everyday life you are letting them win. Easy enough to say from London, if I lived in France right now I'd be fucking off out the country in seconds, seems to be a terrorist attack every month. RIP
years ago i stopped geting the SLP as i use to call it the South London Depression--full of rape,muggings stabbings etc. Then i stopped buying papers re the fact that they tell you the news in the way they want you to see it and its shit. Gave up even picking up the free papers and prefered to read a book on the train. I dont look at the news on certain channels as its lie ,a pod cast for the SWP and even dont watch the news before i go to bed these days prefer to sleep rather than be angry or depressed about the sick c out there. Of course you cant hide away and its in your face when awful awful shit happens like last night but FFS sometimes i do feel that i just want to get far far far far away.
can they be beaten ? of course they can but not before many many more totaly inocent people are slaughtered.
Just seen an image of a young girl, dead with a cover over her, her toy baby doll is next to her. Absolutely heartbreaking. Human beings are the absolute worst
RIP to all the people who died. Peace to the families ( though I doubt they'll have very much for some time). I really don't want to post much more about stuff so filled with hatred and loss, but the people of France deserve much better than this.
before I took my first driving lesson back in 1967, the instructor looked me in the eye and said 'always remember that a vehicle has the potential to be a lethal weapon' .. a statement I have never forgotten .. VERY difficult to prevent or stop such an incident, especially in the mainland UK where the police are not routinely armed
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
Words simply cannot describe the loathing I feel for anyone who would even consider committing an act like this. Deepest sympathy to anyone who has lost a friend or loved one in this atrocity.
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
Reminds me of these bollards, especially designed to be able to take the load of a lorry:
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
The counter-terrorism specialist (self-proclaimed?) on the BBC Breakfast Show discussed this earlier on. It hadn't occurred to me, but the police had to "face off" the truck on foot, they deserve some major respect for that. I'm quite confused as to how the truck had initially breached the security procedures though, it was going quite slow initially and would surely have passed through security cordons?
You're entirely right though, you're not going to do much damage to the tires of a truck (nor are you gonna hit the tires when it's moving) - so you're going to have to kill the driver, quickly. You then have to question the strength and integrity of the windshield of a larger vehicle though?
Some of the old prison escorts would have armed plod place a pistol out of the window at crossroads to prevent them being rammed. (I can remember growing up and seeing it happen with an escort from Belmarsh, just along Shooters Hill I think) I'm not sure if they still do it.
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
If this event was in the UK there would be armed police all over it.
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
Reminds me of these bollards, especially designed to be able to take the load of a lorry:
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
The counter-terrorism specialist (self-proclaimed?) on the BBC Breakfast Show discussed this earlier on. It hadn't occurred to me, but the police had to "face off" the truck on foot, they deserve some major respect for that. I'm quite confused as to how the truck had initially breached the security procedures though, it was going quite slow initially and would surely have passed through security cordons?
You're entirely right though, you're not going to do much damage to the tires of a truck (nor are you gonna hit the tires when it's moving) - so you're going to have to kill the driver, quickly. You then have to question the strength and integrity of the windshield of a larger vehicle though?
Some of the old prison escorts would have armed plod place a pistol out of the window at crossroads to prevent them being rammed. (I can remember growing up and seeing it happen with an escort from Belmarsh, just along Shooters Hill I think) I'm not sure if they still do it.
an eyewitness interviewed on 5Live who saw the driver claims he was dressed as a soldier or gendarme/policeman .. I agree about the bravery of the police .. UK police face dangerous situations on a regular basis, and they face them usually armed just with a baton
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
If this event was in the UK there would be armed police all over it.
but probably they'd arrive well after the event .. the point is that an immediate response is required, not calling for an 'armed response' car that might be miles away
Only so many times people will sit by and see innocent people killed. Eventually people will be pushed over the edge.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
Not saying this is right personally I think the moral high ground is the way to go. Violence never ends violence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see armed militias/local defence forces patrolling the streets etc.
As an atheist i can't pray to a Man made concept. As a human being i grieve for the innocents who have been maimed and lost their Lives. I feel so sad for their family and friend. I feel so sad because you can't beat the lone terrorist who lives in the shadows and is brainwashed.
a gun against a 4 ton truck ? Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
good point BUT to stop a vehicle that has circumvented obstacles and security procedures, the best way is to shoot the driver .. dead
If this event was in the UK there would be armed police all over it.
but probably they'd arrive well after the event .. the point is that an immediate response is required, not calling for an 'armed response' car that might be miles away
At a gathering this size, they'd be there already. No doubt. Not sure what your point is though, are you saying he police in this country should be routinely armed?
If so, it's coming through the back door anyway, but if the police aren't calling for it then why should we? They're the experts.
Only so many times people will sit by and see innocent people killed. Eventually people will be pushed over the edge.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
Not saying this is right personally I think the moral high ground is the way to go. Violence never ends violence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see armed militias/local defence forces patrolling the streets etc.
the Front Nationale is a major force in French politics .. however, the party has disavowed violence in favour of getting power through the ballot box .. however, what you write is certainly a possibility .. usually it is innocent people who bear the brunt of vigilante retaliation
Only so many times people will sit by and see innocent people killed. Eventually people will be pushed over the edge.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
Not saying this is right personally I think the moral high ground is the way to go. Violence never ends violence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see armed militias/local defence forces patrolling the streets etc.
I'm not sure if you saw a few pages back Canters, but one of the senior intelligent chaps out there seems to feel as though the "far right backlash" is a bigger concern than terrorism at the moment, and that it would take one more incident to ignite something bigger.. and that was two days ago, before this happened.
Without adding legitimacy to any far-right reactions, it would be understandable for people to begin to snap. We've seen horrific footage multiple times in the last 18 months; and France alone has lost 238 lives due to Terrorism since 7th Jan 2015. The cracks were beginning to show after Charlie Hebdo, and I can't help but think this is why France is being targeted repeatedly: it's not about their past, it's about the fact that they're clearly close to breaking point and any reaction from the far-right will feed right in to the hands of ISIS.
I remarked to my missus this morning, if this was to happen in America with an armed population you could be looking at a bloodbath.
Comments
Being such a social species we live our lives crowded together. It makes us extraordinarily vulnerable. Recall the damage done in the 2009 Queen's Day attack on the Dutch royal family in Apeldoorn - using just a private car the perp forfeited not only his own life but took seven other innocent ones with him. Truly, profoundly shocked at last night's carnage. R.I.P.
I do know a couple of lads from Toulouse who have been posting stuff on their Facebook accounts over the last few years that suggests they have got the hump with certain parts of French society.
I don't agree with some of the comments earlier in this thread, but I don't think this is the time to argue over opinions on why some one would do such a thing.
What a terrible shock and a nasty evil attack to once again innocent people.
RIP to all those lost
Please think before posting and going too deep / focused with your view please. Not the type of thread we'd like to be dominated / taken in a different direction. Thanks
Of course you cant hide away and its in your face when awful awful shit happens like last night but FFS sometimes i do feel that i just want to get far far far far away.
can they be beaten ? of course they can but not before many many more totaly inocent people are slaughtered.
RIP to the people of NICE
Those poor people.
VERY difficult to prevent or stop such an incident, especially in the mainland UK where the police are not routinely armed
Take a look outside your office windows ----see those massive "flower pots" ? take a walk down Victoria street---see the big planters out side many many buildings? just to bring flowers and plants into Westminster aint they ?
You're entirely right though, you're not going to do much damage to the tires of a truck (nor are you gonna hit the tires when it's moving) - so you're going to have to kill the driver, quickly. You then have to question the strength and integrity of the windshield of a larger vehicle though?
Some of the old prison escorts would have armed plod place a pistol out of the window at crossroads to prevent them being rammed. (I can remember growing up and seeing it happen with an escort from Belmarsh, just along Shooters Hill I think) I'm not sure if they still do it.
I don't know whether France have an equivalentof the EDL but I imagine the demand for their applications will rocket.
Not saying this is right personally I think the moral high ground is the way to go. Violence never ends violence. But I wouldn't be surprised to see armed militias/local defence forces patrolling the streets etc.
As a human being i grieve for the innocents who have been maimed and lost their Lives.
I feel so sad for their family and friend.
I feel so sad because you can't beat the lone terrorist who lives in the shadows and is brainwashed.
Love must overcome Hate.
If so, it's coming through the back door anyway, but if the police aren't calling for it then why should we? They're the experts.
Another incredibly sad day for the French, RIP to those that died and my thoughts are with the families and those injured.
Numbingly sad.
Without adding legitimacy to any far-right reactions, it would be understandable for people to begin to snap. We've seen horrific footage multiple times in the last 18 months; and France alone has lost 238 lives due to Terrorism since 7th Jan 2015. The cracks were beginning to show after Charlie Hebdo, and I can't help but think this is why France is being targeted repeatedly: it's not about their past, it's about the fact that they're clearly close to breaking point and any reaction from the far-right will feed right in to the hands of ISIS.
I remarked to my missus this morning, if this was to happen in America with an armed population you could be looking at a bloodbath.