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Savings and Investments thread

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  • Rob7Lee said:
    can we all just get back to posting what we got in the monthly premium bonds draw as this is all completely above my head.
    Patience, still 10 days to go until the next draw!
    I don't have to wait 10 days. I'll get zero again for the 4th straight month since I reduced my holding to £10k!
  • edited 4:23PM
    Invest in a Business Relief scheme (previously called Business Property Relief). After 2 years they are IHT free. £1m allowance  - reduced to £500k if you invest in AIM shares. 

    So take your TFC out of your pension & put it there. A tax allowance that hardly anyone uses. But it's there. 
  • Invest in a Business Relief scheme (previously called Business Property Relief). After 2 years they are IHT free. £1m allowance  - reduced to £500k if you invest in AIM shares. 

    So take your TFC out of your pension & put it there. A tax allowance that hardly anyone uses. But it's there. 
    But is not without risk, could quite easily lose money and also quite illiquid.
  • Rob7Lee said:
    Invest in a Business Relief scheme (previously called Business Property Relief). After 2 years they are IHT free. £1m allowance  - reduced to £500k if you invest in AIM shares. 

    So take your TFC out of your pension & put it there. A tax allowance that hardly anyone uses. But it's there. 
    But is not without risk, could quite easily lose money and also quite illiquid.
    Yes, you could lose money but I'm.sure £ for £ you wouldn't lose 40% like you would do to IHT.

    And not that illiquid. Most schemes will repay you with 4-6 weeks.
  • edited 7:44PM
    Rob7Lee said:
    Invest in a Business Relief scheme (previously called Business Property Relief). After 2 years they are IHT free. £1m allowance  - reduced to £500k if you invest in AIM shares. 

    So take your TFC out of your pension & put it there. A tax allowance that hardly anyone uses. But it's there. 
    But is not without risk, could quite easily lose money and also quite illiquid.
    Yes, you could lose money but I'm.sure £ for £ you wouldn't lose 40% like you would do to IHT.

    And not that illiquid. Most schemes will repay you with 4-6 weeks.
    Invested in unlisted and AIM companies generally aren't they? Sounds a minefield to me, income (if there was any) would be taxed unlike whilst it's in the pension? But despite that I agree it is a way to legally avoid IHT.

    As an aside, what aren't farms held like this?
  • Rob7Lee said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    Invest in a Business Relief scheme (previously called Business Property Relief). After 2 years they are IHT free. £1m allowance  - reduced to £500k if you invest in AIM shares. 

    So take your TFC out of your pension & put it there. A tax allowance that hardly anyone uses. But it's there. 
    But is not without risk, could quite easily lose money and also quite illiquid.
    Yes, you could lose money but I'm.sure £ for £ you wouldn't lose 40% like you would do to IHT.

    And not that illiquid. Most schemes will repay you with 4-6 weeks.
    Invested in unlisted and AIM companies generally aren't they? Sounds a minefield to me, income (if there was any) would be taxed unlike whilst it's in the pension? But despite that I agree it is a way to legally avoid IHT.

    As an aside, what aren't farms held like this?
    No tax to pay at all. The schemes I've looked at & advised on have showed steady gains of around 3%-4% pa. Mostly invested in infrastructure, solar tech & lending. Imo you are not investing to make money but to reduce your Estate paying 40% tax on inherited assets. 
  • edited 8:37PM
    red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.
  • edited 9:11PM
    red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.

    red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.
    I paid income tax all my working life, multiple thousands of pounds, I do not dispute that services need to be paid for but I still belive that when you want to leave your money, it's your money and has already been taxed.
    CGT on assets is fine, but not the bottom line of what you have worked for.
  • red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.
    Red is referring to tax IHT specifically. I'll admit it's a tax I struggle with at times, morally. Taking money from someone....... because they have died. If someone dies 'young' (lets say at 52 as one of my client did just last week or 47 as one of my staffs fathers did when they were on Holiday in Australia earlier this year)) and therefore still has their assets and whatever is built up in pension etc, because they have been sensible, because they haven't had the opportunity to spend it, the tax man potentially takes a chunk. Had they lived to say 79 (the average for a man in the UK), they may have spent a large chunk of it and maybe the tax man then doesn't take a chunk.

    So many talk about inheritance being unfair, not having been worked for etc and an accident of birth, IHT can be an accident of death! You no longer have the choice to spend and for that you are penalised.

    I think it is much more equitable in society to pay as you go, not when you go.

    There's many of our neighbours in Europe who don't have IHT or equivalent. Norway, Sweden, Austria, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, about 1/3rd of Europe. Many of those who do are at a much lower level than us (Portugal is 10%, Italy single digit as are Croatia and Bulgaria).

    What irks me more than the tax itself, and this applies to lots of taxes, the limits rarely increase. When my mum died over 17 years ago the nil rate band was £312k and for the last 16 years it's been £325k, that's an annually increasing tax. £312k in 2008 is today over £500k by inflation, or in your varying way/model I suspect it's in buying power north of £1.5m! 
  • I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
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  • edited 9:30PM
    red10 said:
    red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.

    red10 said:
    Sorry to repeat, IHT is an absolute piss take, raking money off people who have worked hard and have already been taxed on that money so they can invest and arrange their own finances and not live off the state. I have never claimed a penny in my life but paid plenty in.
    I just want to challenge this way of thinking a little bit. You've never been through the education system? Never been on a road? Or used a railway? Drunk clean water? Eaten food that you know is safe and meets certain standards? Breathed clean air? Benefited from a street light? Had employee rights? Hired someone else who has been educated? Used the NHS? Had a prescription? Been to a park? Had a loved one helped by the NHS? Known that if you did need the NHS it's there? Known that if you got injured at work you would get support? And a million and seven other things. 

    You definitely don't expect the NHS to be there for you in the last 10 years of your life when (assuming you're a male) you'll generate more than 90% of your cost to the NHS?  

    None of this is possible without tax. When you think about it you take plenty out, as we all do. Different people pay in different amounts and take out different amounts. Running an ambulance for 2 days costs about what I pay in income tax in a year. I've never had to use one, thankfully, but boy am I glad it's there if I did. 

    Isn't that the price of living in a civilised society?

    The way we think about tax in this country is so wrong.
    I paid income tax all my working life, multiple thousands of pounds, I do not dispute that services need to be paid for but I still belive that when you want to leave your money, it's your money and has already been taxed.

    I agree that it's your money after you have paid your tax - you have worked, sacrificed your time, and contributed to society, and it's only right that you can 'spend it' how you like. That's why I am against a wealth tax on the person who has already paid their whack.

    The person(s) inheriting your wealth (the deceased doesn't pay the IHT, they do) haven't contributed to society at all from the windfall they are about to receive - all untaxed inherited wealth does is perpetuate inequality and restrict social mobility - the wealth just goes to the next generation of the family and maintains the divide. You can leave up to £1m to your children free of IHT - that's enough. I concede that property in certain parts of the country has a greater value that can skew the figures and perhaps there is a way to recognise that by scaling or similar (but I haven't thought that through).

    It only affects a small proportion of estates anyway:

    HMRC reported that 27,000 estates (3.73% of all deaths in the UK) paid inheritance tax in 2020/21. The tax raised £5.76 billion that year. The total value of wealth protected from inheritance tax was around £28 billion, chiefly because of transfers between spouses and civil partners, which accounted for £15.7 billion of wealth protected.

    That's my view anyway - you don't have to agree :)

  • It’s difficult to argue against pension being subject to IHT given you enjoyed a tax break when saving / paying in ie you aren’t being taxed twice. 
    Likewise pensions are primarily designed for the individual / couple not for their descendants. 
  • I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    I suspect the definition of claimed in that sentence is just that, not 'make use of', a subtle difference but I understand your points.

    IHT threshold has not moved since the 6th April 2009, yes a property element was brought in (2017?) but house prices have outstripped inflation by 2x and that doesn't apply to many people anyway as it's only for direct descendants. My sister has no children so her NRB has and will no doubt remain at £325k as it has since 2009. 

    Anyway, I need to get back to spending the kids inheritance  :D
  • Rob7Lee said:
    I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    I suspect the definition of claimed in that sentence is just that, not 'make use of', a subtle difference but I understand your points.

    IHT threshold has not moved since the 6th April 2009, yes a property element was brought in (2017?) but house prices have outstripped inflation by 2x and that doesn't apply to many people anyway as it's only for direct descendants. My sister has no children so her NRB has and will no doubt remain at £325k as it has since 2009. 

    Anyway, I need to get back to spending the kids inheritance  :D

    You know it makes sense :)
  • bobmunro said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    I suspect the definition of claimed in that sentence is just that, not 'make use of', a subtle difference but I understand your points.

    IHT threshold has not moved since the 6th April 2009, yes a property element was brought in (2017?) but house prices have outstripped inflation by 2x and that doesn't apply to many people anyway as it's only for direct descendants. My sister has no children so her NRB has and will no doubt remain at £325k as it has since 2009. 

    Anyway, I need to get back to spending the kids inheritance  :D

    You know it makes sense :)
    The Mrs is helping (too much) she picks up her new car next Friday  :s  :D
  • I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    As in I have never been on benefits and have paid in a significant of money into the system, so basically I have paid my dues. 


  • Rob7Lee said:
    bobmunro said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    I suspect the definition of claimed in that sentence is just that, not 'make use of', a subtle difference but I understand your points.

    IHT threshold has not moved since the 6th April 2009, yes a property element was brought in (2017?) but house prices have outstripped inflation by 2x and that doesn't apply to many people anyway as it's only for direct descendants. My sister has no children so her NRB has and will no doubt remain at £325k as it has since 2009. 

    Anyway, I need to get back to spending the kids inheritance  :D

    You know it makes sense :)
    The Mrs is helping (too much) she picks up her new car next Friday  :s  :D

    Thankfully my wife isn't really in to cars, hers is three years old this year and I keep saying maybe due a new one and she keeps saying it's fine for another couple of years! Jewellery, handbags and shoes are enough!
    Me on the other hand, being a confirmed petrol head - my new one was delivered to the dealer yesterday, I've been tracking it since it left the factory. Another chunk of the boys' inheritance disappearing :)
  • edited 10:13PM
    red10 said:
    I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    As in I have never been on benefits and have paid in a significant of money into the system, so basically I have paid my dues. 


    But you have taken from the system in countless other ways as we all have. And will continue to do so at an increasing rate until you die. The focus on benefits is all wrong. That's just one small way that people take from the system over a lifetime. 

    "I've paid my dues" comes across as a pretty entitled way of thinking about it. And i thought it was us millennials who were meant to be the entitled ones. ;)
  • red10 said:
    I was more talking about the frankly ridiculous notion that someone might "never have claimed a penny in their life" when reality is that everyone benefits directly and indirectly. 

    I wasn't really talking about the rights and wrongs of IHT specifically. I understand your point of view here. Its not one I agree with, but I see where it comes from. 

    Fiscal drag is a huge huge issue (don't get me started) but IHT is one where the thresholds have actually moved (not enough) since 2010. Most haven't at all.
    As in I have never been on benefits and have paid in a significant of money into the system, so basically I have paid my dues. 


    But you have taken from the system in countless other ways as we all have. And will continue to do so at an increasing rate until you die. The focus on benefits is all wrong. That's just one small way that people take from the system over a lifetime. 

    "I've paid my dues" comes across as a pretty entitled way of thinking about it. And i thought it was us millennials who were meant to be the entitled ones. ;)
    Yes, but people on benefits are benefiting greatly. They are enjoying all the services you listed without paying in AND then they are taking out money as well. Double bubble.
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