Therapeutics use exemptions (TUES)
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Oh there's absolutely no question about the motives of doing this but does that mean it should be ignored?LuckyReds said:Russian bullshit: a bit of a non story, made in to something else and conveniently spread after a poor olympics by Russia and a year of embarassing controversies.
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I agree that this is a blatant attempt to divert attention from Russian doping but I don't think it's a non-story. Wiggins seems to have lied in his autobiography and is now unconvincingly attempting to explain why he did so. I don't think he did anything illegal but I think it's fairly obvious that the 'treatment' he received was very conveniently timed.LuckyReds said:Russian bullshit: a bit of a non story, made in to something else and conveniently spread after a poor olympics by Russia and a year of embarassing controversies.
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Not at all, I agree with you that it needs to be looked at.colthe3rd said:
Oh there's absolutely no question about the motives of doing this but does that mean it should be ignored?LuckyReds said:Russian bullshit: a bit of a non story, made in to something else and conveniently spread after a poor olympics by Russia and a year of embarassing controversies.
Alas, I'm more concerned at Russia's recent habit of using cyber crime to undermine other countries; be that the Hilary emails in the US, attempts at disrupting our election last year, and now this. They've been quite active, and arguably more overt, recently.
I still suspect this maybe much ado about nothing though, or at least hope that is the case. If it's really rife throughout the sport, then really is it any different from mechanical advantages on the bike - or racing tires?0 -
In order to stop the gossip, this needs to happenForeverAddickted said:
Agreed... I'd like to see an interview between Walsh and Wiggins...colthe3rd said:David Walsh's Sunday Times article:
https://reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/54cmx2/david_walsh_on_bradley_wiggins_in_sunday_times/
Certainly has me questioning it a bit more and I think he's right, Brailsford has some questions to answer.
If the latter refuses then it would certainly have me doubting him a hell of a lot more0 -
We're throwing asthma pumps on the pitch at the Oldham game. Keep up Dave.cafcdave123 said:having read the entire thread, i am still at a loss as to what is happening on Tuesday?
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With the best will in the world, David Walsh is an arse. He'll have you believe that he was responsible for Armstrong's downfall when - in reality - he was just one of dozens - hundreds - of people who helped bring it about. In fact, it was the USADA and threat of the FBI that finally exposed him. Walsh has made a career out of riding on the coattails of that investigation and is little more than a charlatan. He'll be wheeled out again and again to the public as a knowledgeable, ruthless critic of doping in cycling, when two of his best mates are Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche - both juiced up to the eyeballs through their entire careers (like every other cyclist in the eighties). Try and find some criticism of them from Walsh, then ask yourself how objective he really is
The problem here is that Wiggins will be tried in the court of public opinion, by people who don't know cycling inside and out and will just assume his guilt because The Meeja have an agenda to portray it as fact. Sad, sad times.1 -
Tbf though Leroy, you're hardly objective yourself here.0
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Wiggins use of the drug absolutely stinks, no doubt about it. It doesn't matter what you think of TUE's, its the timing of when he took the drug that makes it so suspicious, 3 times before each grand tour he was targeting in each year (2011,2012,2013), then never again before of after. His interview on Marr did nothing for me either, especially that cliché about a level playing field, I thought we'd left that back in the 90's/00's.
Furthermore the fact that it is well documented that the mentioned drug helps you lose weight, something that was always holding Wiggins back in grand tours. Just look at the testimonies from previous dopers about how they lost 1.5-2 Kg in a week by taking what he took, this would make a huge difference to Wiggins.
I'll reserve my full judgement as I hope more details on both sides come out but at the moment I am very disappointed in the situation as a whole.
For the record I don't think most TUE's are a bad thing at all, in fact pretty much all of the ones that have been released are complete non-stories, maybe it would be a good thing to make future TUE's public to encourage clean sport and transparency within cycling.1 -
They absolutely should be made public, unless there's a bloody good reason not to.Addickted4life said:For the record I don't think most TUE's are a bad thing at all, in fact pretty much all of the ones that have been released are complete non-stories, maybe it would be a good thing to make future TUE's public to encourage clean sport and transparency within cycling.
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Why - cos I take the same drug?colthe3rd said:Tbf though Leroy, you're hardly objective yourself here.
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Bullshit is when you lie.LuckyReds said:Russian bullshit: a bit of a non story, made in to something else and conveniently spread after a poor olympics by Russia and a year of embarassing controversies.
This is all true, that's why Wiggins is doing the damage limitation TV chat.
I will state again, sky used a loophole and Wiggins went along with it.
Think tax avoidance and tax evasion;
Wiggins and sky went down the Tax avoidance route which is legal but a piss take all the same.1 -
To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?1 -
To me that would be a niave way of viewing it, I don't doubt for one minute it was legal,ForeverAddickted said:To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?
It was done with imorale intention0 -
But whats the difference between the two?nth london addick said:
To me that would be a niave way of viewing it, I don't doubt for one minute it was legal,ForeverAddickted said:To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?
It was done with imorale intention
I dont believe there were imorale intentions from Wiggins, I do believe he's right in saying that had he mentioned needles prior to now then everyone would think the worst seeing we're not long past the Armstrong scandal.
Meaning Wiggins was damned if he came out or damned if he stayed quiet0 -
Does the injection contain banned substances?ForeverAddickted said:To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?0 -
I think the point is that neither did.MrOneLung said:
Does the injection contain banned substances?ForeverAddickted said:To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?0 -
It is a banned substance hence the need for the TUE. I think using the footballer analogy, if they were to take an injection for something 3 times just before they played in a major final having never needed them before, without a doubt there would be questions asked and rightly so. This isn't to accuse someone, clearly there is a medical need for these the problem comes when someone takes it who doesn't have a medical need. Let's face it, dodgy doctors are well known in sport so it isn't ridiculous to imagine a doctor authorising an injection knowing that they can use the medical need like e to get it approved.stonemuse said:
I think the point is that neither did.MrOneLung said:
Does the injection contain banned substances?ForeverAddickted said:To spin it on its head...
A Footballer is suffering from a back injury... Takes an injection to ensure they can play... Surely thats the exact same as what Wiggins has done?
Again not accusing anyone but the questions being asked are valid. It's a pretty big grey area and everyone involved knows it.4 -
TUEs are rife in football. So many have them for cortisone0
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Your honesty can never be bought in to doubt if you don't tell lies
Wiggins lied so how do you know he isn't lying now,
I don't buy the damned if you do damned if you don't
Sky and Wiggins didn't say anything because what they were doing was questionable, I fond it amazing that so many supreme athletes suffer from heart and respiratory problems that would knock a mere mortal out for months
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Maybe the training before each major tour did exacerbate his asthma.
Still looks dodgy though.
It gives massive weight loss I read.
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i dont suppose you also read whereAlwaysneil said:Maybe the training before each major tour did exacerbate his asthma.
Still looks dodgy though.
It gives massive weight loss I read.iyou can buy it did you?3 -
Off the Internet or in the US would be a fair bet.0
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Froome knows the score:
Second paragraph tells you all you need to know. Difference between legal and 'fair'.2 -
I don't sense that Froome and Wiggins are in Tandem on this issue.2
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Whatever gives you that idea?soapboxsam said:I don't sense that Froome and Wiggins are in Tandem on this issue.
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I dont think they see eye to eye on any issuesoapboxsam said:I don't sense that Froome and Wiggins are in Tandem on this issue.
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Surely if you had bad asthma / allergies you would need to take this drug regularly rather than just three times ?
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https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/19/mystery-package-fluimucil-dave-brailsford-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw
The package at the centre of a UK Anti-Doping investigation contained the decongestant Fluimucil, Team Sky principal Sir Dave Brailsford said on Monday.
Speaking at a Culture, Media and Sport select committee hearing, Brailsford confirmed the nature of a delivery made by British Cycling coach Simon Cope to Team Sky at the 2011 Dauphiné Libéré, a key race in the build-up to the Tour de France, after fellow cycling chiefs had pleaded ignorance.
Committee chair Damian Collins MP had earlier asked British Cycling president Bob Howden, chair of the British Cycling ethics commission Dr George Gilbert and former Team Sky coach Shane Sutton about the package, with none of the three able to offer any new information.
When Brailsford appeared later, he said: “[Team Sky doctor Richard] Freeman told me it was Fluimucil for a nebuliser. That was what was in the package. It was what Dr Freeman told me.” Fluimucil is a decongestant used for clearing mucus.
A drug that is not licensed in the UK and shouldn't be taken if you have asthma...
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