Are we credited for Defoe as last season he would be our best product in the PL along with Harry Arter. Randolph played several games for West Ham
Struggling to think who the Villa and Derby players would have been?
Ahh I forgot Arter. I knew I was missing someone.
Do we count Randolph and Elliot? Randolph joined us at 17 I think and I believe Elliot was 18 or 19. For goalkeepers that's still very young, but I want to say they only spent a year in our academy each (if that).
On that basis we should get credit for Defoe, but not the 2 keepers, and not Lookman.
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
Are we credited for Defoe as last season he would be our best product in the PL along with Harry Arter. Randolph played several games for West Ham
Struggling to think who the Villa and Derby players would have been?
Ahh I forgot Arter. I knew I was missing someone.
Do we count Randolph and Elliot? Randolph joined us at 17 I think and I believe Elliot was 18 or 19. For goalkeepers that's still very young, but I want to say they only spent a year in our academy each (if that).
On that basis we should get credit for Defoe, but not the 2 keepers, and not Lookman.
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
Yeah like I said these things tend to go in waves for whatever reason. If there is an upside to being in League One, it is that the likes of Lookman and Konsa play week in and week out, whereas they may not get that chance at a higher level. Hopefully this year at least a couple of RCC, Dijksteel, KAG, RHF, Barnes, and Lapslie will get a chance to at least be a part of the 18 whereas none of them are ready for a higher level of football.
You see the problem play out at clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea where they actually have a lot of very talented young players, it's just there is nowhere for them to go because the barrier to entry into the first team is incredibly high. Despite the fact that they are short on strikers, and despite the fact that he is immensely talented, Dominic Solanke barely got a look in last season. City shed a lot of decent academy players after the Abu Dhabi takeover because the level required got higher and higher (Richards, Sturridge--though there were other reasons, Ben Mee, Kieren Trippier, Nedum Onouha).
Are we credited for Defoe as last season he would be our best product in the PL along with Harry Arter. Randolph played several games for West Ham
Struggling to think who the Villa and Derby players would have been?
Ahh I forgot Arter. I knew I was missing someone.
Do we count Randolph and Elliot? Randolph joined us at 17 I think and I believe Elliot was 18 or 19. For goalkeepers that's still very young, but I want to say they only spent a year in our academy each (if that).
On that basis we should get credit for Defoe, but not the 2 keepers, and not Lookman.
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
Yeah like I said these things tend to go in waves for whatever reason. If there is an upside to being in League One, it is that the likes of Lookman and Konsa play week in and week out, whereas they may not get that chance at a higher level. Hopefully this year at least a couple of RCC, Dijksteel, KAG, RHF, Barnes, and Lapslie will get a chance to at least be a part of the 18 whereas none of them are ready for a higher level of football.
You see the problem play out at clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea where they actually have a lot of very talented young players, it's just there is nowhere for them to go because the barrier to entry into the first team is incredibly high. Despite the fact that they are short on strikers, and despite the fact that he is immensely talented, Dominic Solanke barely got a look in last season. City shed a lot of decent academy players after the Abu Dhabi takeover because the level required got higher and higher (Richards, Sturridge--though there were other reasons, Ben Mee, Kieren Trippier, Nedum Onouha).
For smaller clubs, it begs the question as to whether an academy is worth it, if you can pick up the rejects from the PL giants instead.
Are we credited for Defoe as last season he would be our best product in the PL along with Harry Arter. Randolph played several games for West Ham
Struggling to think who the Villa and Derby players would have been?
Ahh I forgot Arter. I knew I was missing someone.
Do we count Randolph and Elliot? Randolph joined us at 17 I think and I believe Elliot was 18 or 19. For goalkeepers that's still very young, but I want to say they only spent a year in our academy each (if that).
On that basis we should get credit for Defoe, but not the 2 keepers, and not Lookman.
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
Yeah like I said these things tend to go in waves for whatever reason. If there is an upside to being in League One, it is that the likes of Lookman and Konsa play week in and week out, whereas they may not get that chance at a higher level. Hopefully this year at least a couple of RCC, Dijksteel, KAG, RHF, Barnes, and Lapslie will get a chance to at least be a part of the 18 whereas none of them are ready for a higher level of football.
You see the problem play out at clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea where they actually have a lot of very talented young players, it's just there is nowhere for them to go because the barrier to entry into the first team is incredibly high. Despite the fact that they are short on strikers, and despite the fact that he is immensely talented, Dominic Solanke barely got a look in last season. City shed a lot of decent academy players after the Abu Dhabi takeover because the level required got higher and higher (Richards, Sturridge--though there were other reasons, Ben Mee, Kieren Trippier, Nedum Onouha).
For smaller clubs, it begs the question as to whether an academy is worth it, if you can pick up the rejects from the PL giants instead.
Are we credited for Defoe as last season he would be our best product in the PL along with Harry Arter. Randolph played several games for West Ham
Struggling to think who the Villa and Derby players would have been?
Ahh I forgot Arter. I knew I was missing someone.
Do we count Randolph and Elliot? Randolph joined us at 17 I think and I believe Elliot was 18 or 19. For goalkeepers that's still very young, but I want to say they only spent a year in our academy each (if that).
On that basis we should get credit for Defoe, but not the 2 keepers, and not Lookman.
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
Yeah like I said these things tend to go in waves for whatever reason. If there is an upside to being in League One, it is that the likes of Lookman and Konsa play week in and week out, whereas they may not get that chance at a higher level. Hopefully this year at least a couple of RCC, Dijksteel, KAG, RHF, Barnes, and Lapslie will get a chance to at least be a part of the 18 whereas none of them are ready for a higher level of football.
You see the problem play out at clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea where they actually have a lot of very talented young players, it's just there is nowhere for them to go because the barrier to entry into the first team is incredibly high. Despite the fact that they are short on strikers, and despite the fact that he is immensely talented, Dominic Solanke barely got a look in last season. City shed a lot of decent academy players after the Abu Dhabi takeover because the level required got higher and higher (Richards, Sturridge--though there were other reasons, Ben Mee, Kieren Trippier, Nedum Onouha).
For smaller clubs, it begs the question as to whether an academy is worth it, if you can pick up the rejects from the PL giants instead.
There certainly is merit in this. You can either go Cat 1 and play the big boys at their own game.....or feed off their scraps and see what comes out in the wash.
I think there is a template academies go for in which physical attributes play too great a part. That is why a lot of athletes are produced, but not enough great players. The British look for a strong kid dribbling past a lot of weak players whereas the Spaniards (for example) look for the kid who looks up.
I think the right time for academies to have kids is about 15/16/17 up - no younger. What is needed is better youth coaching and giving players the freedom and confidence to find their game and express themselves. That is how you produce world class players - that and playing a numbers game.
Big issue for me what the EPPP rules and Prem money have caused. Top clubs having huge youth squads. They can sign any player from lower category academies for minimal compensation. It was supposed to benefit the players as they'd be using they best facilities, working with the best coaches etc.
What about game time? There's so much money in the Prem now some clubs won't give players a chance. Isn't John Terry still the last Chelsea academy player to become a regular in their first team?
I'd like to see limits on squad size for u23s and u18s, and maybe even on the number of players they can loan out. They can still look to sign the best players from smaller clubs but not every half decent youngster on off the chance they turn out to be good enough.
They trawl youngsters - Spurs did with my son. But as a keeper, he wasn't getting any technical training at all with them - He was only there a year and we opted to move him to the University of Hertfordshire Football development centre where he has been since - they invite the best boys from the area and train them to a very high level. You have to pay, but the quality of coaching is excellent - My son has developed into a very good keeper - needs to improve in a couple of areas which he is working on.
They train twice a week and the players will have their own Sunday clubs. They don't play competetive matches - maybe one or two every couple of years on a half term. The last time they had a match, they beat Cambridge United academy 2-0. That is without playing together as a team previously. I will be interested to see how some of the players get on in the next coupe of years. But I think more schemes like this subsidised by the FA is the way forward. Maybe they can be aligned with professional clubs - The development centre was originally aligned with Norwich City and is now aligned with Crystal Palace - not so happy about that.
Big issue for me what the EPPP rules and Prem money have caused. Top clubs having huge youth squads. They can sign any player from lower category academies for minimal compensation. It was supposed to benefit the players as they'd be using they best facilities, working with the best coaches etc.
What about game time? There's so much money in the Prem now some clubs won't give players a chance. Isn't John Terry still the last Chelsea academy player to become a regular in their first team?
I'd like to see limits on squad size for u23s and u18s, and maybe even on the number of players they can loan out. They can still look to sign the best players from smaller clubs but not every half decent youngster on off the chance they turn out to be good enough.
Big issue for me what the EPPP rules and Prem money have caused. Top clubs having huge youth squads. They can sign any player from lower category academies for minimal compensation. It was supposed to benefit the players as they'd be using they best facilities, working with the best coaches etc.
What about game time? There's so much money in the Prem now some clubs won't give players a chance. Isn't John Terry still the last Chelsea academy player to become a regular in their first team?
I'd like to see limits on squad size for u23s and u18s, and maybe even on the number of players they can loan out. They can still look to sign the best players from smaller clubs but not every half decent youngster on off the chance they turn out to be good enough.
Solved by the JPT. The FA are genius.
In 2030 when England are World and European champions the star players will look back to 2017 and realise it was that 90 minutes they played for Man City u23s against Morecambe's first team that helped them become the players they are today.
No chance of reversing EPPP or Cat1 academies now I think but what could/should be done is a restriction on number of players that can sign up at each age group. Say 20 max. No club needs more than that and it would mean the top clubs would not hoover 40-50 players each group instead. There would be more focus on that smaller number and it would leave the rest getting game time and quality coaching outside of the elite which is good for the sport and likely for their development.
I would also ban loans to clubs in the same division which again would make young players think twice about going to the likes of Chelsea and Man City. The likes of Palace and Huddersfield have enough money to buy players rather than loan them from Chelsea! I would also consider banning international loans of players under the age of 23.
Basically these things would help ease the 'Chelsea model' of hoovering as many players as possible to loan out and sell at a profit at some point in the future without any regard to the game, it's integrity or the players development.
Ed - I would also ban a club from making more than one loan to any one team. Under current rules if I was the owner of CAFC and we were in the Championship I would go out of my way to bring in a mate of the Chelsea manager as our manager, a mate of the United manager as our assistant and a mate of the Spurs manager as goalkeeper coach. Then tell them to all use their contacts to bring the best 2 possible loaners from these clubs. Essentially the 3 Chelsea loanees played a huge part in Huddersfields success last season
Comments
After bringing through Defoe, Parker and Konch, the former 2 being amongst the best ever products of our academy, there seemed to be a bit of a lull from the mid 2000s onwards, with surprisingly few PL regulars being produced and not of that level.
You see the problem play out at clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea where they actually have a lot of very talented young players, it's just there is nowhere for them to go because the barrier to entry into the first team is incredibly high. Despite the fact that they are short on strikers, and despite the fact that he is immensely talented, Dominic Solanke barely got a look in last season. City shed a lot of decent academy players after the Abu Dhabi takeover because the level required got higher and higher (Richards, Sturridge--though there were other reasons, Ben Mee, Kieren Trippier, Nedum Onouha).
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts
I think the right time for academies to have kids is about 15/16/17 up - no younger. What is needed is better youth coaching and giving players the freedom and confidence to find their game and express themselves. That is how you produce world class players - that and playing a numbers game.
What about game time? There's so much money in the Prem now some clubs won't give players a chance. Isn't John Terry still the last Chelsea academy player to become a regular in their first team?
I'd like to see limits on squad size for u23s and u18s, and maybe even on the number of players they can loan out. They can still look to sign the best players from smaller clubs but not every half decent youngster on off the chance they turn out to be good enough.
They train twice a week and the players will have their own Sunday clubs. They don't play competetive matches - maybe one or two every couple of years on a half term. The last time they had a match, they beat Cambridge United academy 2-0. That is without playing together as a team previously. I will be interested to see how some of the players get on in the next coupe of years. But I think more schemes like this subsidised by the FA is the way forward. Maybe they can be aligned with professional clubs - The development centre was originally aligned with Norwich City and is now aligned with Crystal Palace - not so happy about that.
I would also ban loans to clubs in the same division which again would make young players think twice about going to the likes of Chelsea and Man City. The likes of Palace and Huddersfield have enough money to buy players rather than loan them from Chelsea! I would also consider banning international loans of players under the age of 23.
Basically these things would help ease the 'Chelsea model' of hoovering as many players as possible to loan out and sell at a profit at some point in the future without any regard to the game, it's integrity or the players development.
Ed - I would also ban a club from making more than one loan to any one team. Under current rules if I was the owner of CAFC and we were in the Championship I would go out of my way to bring in a mate of the Chelsea manager as our manager, a mate of the United manager as our assistant and a mate of the Spurs manager as goalkeeper coach. Then tell them to all use their contacts to bring the best 2 possible loaners from these clubs. Essentially the 3 Chelsea loanees played a huge part in Huddersfields success last season
Brilliant! So good for young players development...