It's just been on the BBC news. The FA are now launching an enquiry and are going to write to Moyes asking for his observations.
His observations ?
FA, do something useful about unfit football club owners and stop going for the easy option.
A bit like the police last week stopping a father and young children picking "wild" flowers and taking the flowers away, to give to a charity.
Just advise them, they shouldn't do it and get on your way to something more pressing.
And like that, I think I've finally figured out the FA. They're basically me at work.
I've got a bunch of semi-important stuff to do, but I kind of just pick the easiest task that the most people will see.
Sure, I cooould spend days working on this really boring "thing" that (presumably) someone, somewhere desperately needs... Or, I could wade into the "which brand of coffee machine should we get installed in the Social Zone" email debate.
Except landing on their desk they've got Orient fans going 'our club is on the verge of a winding-up order' vs a storm in a tea-cup about a crap joke from this kind of weird, dour, chap.
I thought that it was (essentially) a complimentary comment.
She had evidently done her job well and asked probing questions - his comment acknowledged that.
I wonder if this is a generational thing? I was brought up in a world where everyone constantly pulled each others legs. It was recognised as humour before political correctness labeled it as bullying. In retrospect, I think it may have been peculiar to Brits of a certain era. As globalisation has taken place those nuances of language and irony have been lost in translation.
That is how I saw it. He wasn't angry with her and had no intention of slapping her or anybody else and she clearly understood that and knew she wasn't being threatened. With hindsight he shouldn't have used the phrase, but we all will have said something we regret in the moment.
I think this issue is more to do with the way news is reported than anything else.
Perhaps a little silly of him considering how careful and politically correct one has to be nowadays. Both of them were laughing and he obviously didn't literally mean what he was saying......and I'm certain she knows that as well. Blown way way out of proportion IMHO. So in short, a silly remark rather than a malicious one.....he's apologised for any misinterpretation that others might attach to it. Move on I say.
To quote the top comment from this thread on the situation:
People saying this is just a joke... Yes, he's ostensibly joking but his joke is about slapping a woman and intimidating her. Just because it's being delivered as a joke doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's not funny, and he'd be facing disciplinary actions in any normal job.
So when I joke about giving some a headlock... should I be disciplined? I know we are not in a work environment but still it has to work both ways.
It stops becoming a joke when we find out he has a history of violence to women. In the absence of that, it was simply the wrong choice of words in the moment that was said in a jovial way and was understood and taken in good grace by the recipient.
Whether he likes it or not as a prominent person in a male industry he's a role model. Comments like that however meant can legitimise to some that offering a slap to a woman is ok. He was a fool to say it. And is a fool to think an apology is going to end this.
Whether he likes it or not as a prominent person in a male industry he's a role model. Comments like that however meant can legitimise to some that offering a slap to a woman is ok. He was a fool to say it. And is a fool to think an apology is going to end this.
Whether he likes it or not as a prominent person in a male industry he's a role model. Comments like that however meant can legitimise to some that offering a slap to a woman is ok. He was a fool to say it. And is a fool to think an apology is going to end this.
Out of interest, and I'm really not poking or trying to provoke a reaction, what would end it in your eyes?
Why do you guys keep referring to it as a joke? He doesn't laugh. Not once. He doesn't smile. He's clearly pissed at being asked a question pertaining to his future employment. What is it about the exchange that makes it a joke?
Whether he likes it or not as a prominent person in a male industry he's a role model. Comments like that however meant can legitimise to some that offering a slap to a woman is ok. He was a fool to say it. And is a fool to think an apology is going to end this.
Out of interest, and I'm really not poking or trying to provoke a reaction, what would end it in your eyes?
I don't know. Maybe a recognition that unwittingly he endorsed violence against women perhaps. Which I don't think his apology really addressed.
It's passive/ aggressive at first, hidden behind a fake half-smile. Then the "be careful next time" is serious. Not as in, be careful or I'll slap you, but at least "don't piss me off again" which betrayed the fake half-smile anyway.
It's not satire, sarcasm or a joke. He's mildly annoyed and finding a way to make his point. Although if he hadn't used the word "slap", and if it was Geoff Shreeves, then it wouldn't be newsworthy.
It's a balancing act though. Irrespective as to what the reporter thought, and I have no idea, she would have felt obligated to 'ignore' and/or 'accept' it as she doesn't want to be banned from interviewing him as her career might depend on it.
It's not right but this kind of thing goes on in some industries and sometimes people have to accept it or find another industry to work in.
I see videos on Facebook of people (men) in the construction industry and some of what they call banter horrifies me but, apparently, it's ok, and it's all fun.
If shadow sports minister Dr Rosena Allin-Khan hadn't called on the FA to act, then this may not have been blown out of all proportion. Moyes said something he shouldn't, he apologised and it was accepted.
I can't help thinking that it is this type of over reaction, that eventually after 13 years, contributed to Labour becoming unelectable. There are of course a multitude of other reasons, notably Jeremy Corbyn.
Yes, let's stand up for right v wrong, but let's not possibly bully someone, because they are being accused of bullying.
To quote the top comment from this thread on the situation:
People saying this is just a joke... Yes, he's ostensibly joking but his joke is about slapping a woman and intimidating her. Just because it's being delivered as a joke doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's not funny, and he'd be facing disciplinary actions in any normal job.
So when I joke about giving some a headlock... should I be disciplined? I know we are not in a work environment but still it has to work both ways.
Yes - anyone making such "jokey" comments in a work environment should be invited to explain their conduct and potentially face disciplinary action. What Moyes did was unacceptable.
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NB I'd like to clarify why I think this is quite bad:
- he wasn't happy with her line of questioning ("it was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there");
- he then told her how to behave ("so just watch yourself");
- he then threatened her with violence ("You still might get a slap").
He also said "even though you're a woman". If that's completely inoffensive then I'm an Apache helicopter.
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Like, yes, he tried to say it in a jokey manner. But 1) is it funny? 2) is the content of what he said *completely* non-threatening and demeaning?
The answer to both of those questions, IMO, is "no".
It's also not just about Vicki Sparks as an individual, but about women as a whole - the general "despite your gender" thing comes into it quite a bit.
With more and more women being involved in the men's game (reporters and officials), surely those making a big thing out of this are doing more harm than good?
On this trajectory of people taking offence on their own behalf and also that on others, where does everyone think we'll be in 10 years time?
Unless he has never, ever spoken harshly towards a male journalist, I'm not sure of the relevance of his apparent previous history of very occasionally being a bit mean to female journalists. Obviously I can see what The Independent is trying to achieve - they've made a point of referencing some genuinely sexist behaviour from Laurent Blanc in the same article to help promote their "David Moyes hates woman" agenda.
I thought the whole point of gender equality was that women and men should be treated the same. There are ample examples of managers being rude to male journalists - nobody ever suggests they should lose their job over it.
Genuinely confused - is the suggestion that he wouldn't have reprimanded a male journalist who had pursued the same line of questioning, or that he shouldn't speak to a female reporter like that, regardless of how we would address a male reporter? Does anyone actually think that there was an actual threat of violence, a genuine possibility that Moyes might actually strike the BBC journo next time she was perceived to have stepped out of line?
This is so obviously the media creating a story for the sake of having a story and they'll doubtless drag it out for a couple more days - "Germaine Greer has called for David Moyes to be chemically castrated", "Kerry Katona has claimed that the scandal-hit Sunderland manager once called her a stupid fat cow", etc, etc.
Feel sorry for Vicki Sparks - no doubt worked extremely hard to build her career and will undoubtedly be treated with an element of suspicion when she's going about her business from now on.
Well well. I did think anyone willing to use that language at work would have had previous.
I can't think of many jobs where a senior person could use that language to a reporter and have it passed off as being not worthy of note. If I did I'd be sacked, not that I'm in a senior position.
What a storm in a teacup. As a woman I'm not at all offended by his comments as they appear to have been made in a jokey fashion. No-one can seriously believe that he meant what he said.
Comments
I've got a bunch of semi-important stuff to do, but I kind of just pick the easiest task that the most people will see.
Sure, I cooould spend days working on this really boring "thing" that (presumably) someone, somewhere desperately needs... Or, I could wade into the "which brand of coffee machine should we get installed in the Social Zone" email debate.
Except landing on their desk they've got Orient fans going 'our club is on the verge of a winding-up order' vs a storm in a tea-cup about a crap joke from this kind of weird, dour, chap.
Banter in front of media is twisted into something much, much more. Surprised? Nah.
Newsworthy? Nah.
Potential loss of his job because of it?!?!? WTF?
I think this issue is more to do with the way news is reported than anything else.
Both of them were laughing and he obviously didn't literally mean what he was saying......and I'm certain she knows that as well.
Blown way way out of proportion IMHO.
So in short, a silly remark rather than a malicious one.....he's apologised for any misinterpretation that others might attach to it.
Move on I say.
He was a fool to say it. And is a fool to think an apology is going to end this.
It's not satire, sarcasm or a joke. He's mildly annoyed and finding a way to make his point. Although if he hadn't used the word "slap", and if it was Geoff Shreeves, then it wouldn't be newsworthy.
It's not right but this kind of thing goes on in some industries and sometimes people have to accept it or find another industry to work in.
I see videos on Facebook of people (men) in the construction industry and some of what they call banter horrifies me but, apparently, it's ok, and it's all fun.
I can't help thinking that it is this type of over reaction, that eventually after 13 years, contributed to Labour becoming unelectable. There are of course a multitude of other reasons, notably Jeremy Corbyn.
Yes, let's stand up for right v wrong, but let's not possibly bully someone, because they are being accused of bullying.
Yes - anyone making such "jokey" comments in a work environment should be invited to explain their conduct and potentially face disciplinary action. What Moyes did was unacceptable.
--------
NB I'd like to clarify why I think this is quite bad:
- he wasn't happy with her line of questioning ("it was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there");
- he then told her how to behave ("so just watch yourself");
- he then threatened her with violence ("You still might get a slap").
He also said "even though you're a woman". If that's completely inoffensive then I'm an Apache helicopter.
--------
Like, yes, he tried to say it in a jokey manner. But 1) is it funny? 2) is the content of what he said *completely* non-threatening and demeaning?
The answer to both of those questions, IMO, is "no".
It's also not just about Vicki Sparks as an individual, but about women as a whole - the general "despite your gender" thing comes into it quite a bit.
With more and more women being involved in the men's game (reporters and officials), surely those making a big thing out of this are doing more harm than good?
On this trajectory of people taking offence on their own behalf and also that on others, where does everyone think we'll be in 10 years time?
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/david-moyes-slap-interview-vicki-sparks-sunderland-sacking-a7665236.html
big nosed prick look like he was about to cry
I thought the whole point of gender equality was that women and men should be treated the same. There are ample examples of managers being rude to male journalists - nobody ever suggests they should lose their job over it.
Genuinely confused - is the suggestion that he wouldn't have reprimanded a male journalist who had pursued the same line of questioning, or that he shouldn't speak to a female reporter like that, regardless of how we would address a male reporter? Does anyone actually think that there was an actual threat of violence, a genuine possibility that Moyes might actually strike the BBC journo next time she was perceived to have stepped out of line?
This is so obviously the media creating a story for the sake of having a story and they'll doubtless drag it out for a couple more days - "Germaine Greer has called for David Moyes to be chemically castrated", "Kerry Katona has claimed that the scandal-hit Sunderland manager once called her a stupid fat cow", etc, etc.
Feel sorry for Vicki Sparks - no doubt worked extremely hard to build her career and will undoubtedly be treated with an element of suspicion when she's going about her business from now on.
I can't think of many jobs where a senior person could use that language to a reporter and have it passed off as being not worthy of note. If I did I'd be sacked, not that I'm in a senior position.