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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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Have to keep it simple for AFKA to cut and paste to the bite size threadRedhenry said:Please don't panic, I just meant it's more complicated than @Henry Irving summary
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I don't think either Murray or Airman have lied. A lot of what both of them have said would have what they believed. Problem is Murray has been receiving his info from a compulsive liar, and it's in Airmans interests to print everthing, even when there is an element of doubt involved.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
I think people should try to concentrate on the team at the moment, this takeover has plenty of twists and turns left so I don't see the point in being impatient.1 -
I did not hit her, I did not... I DID NAAAT!kentaddick said:
@DOUCHER being likened to tommy wiseau is one of the most accurate comparisons on this threadDazzler21 said:Charlton Fans in general
Charlton Fans from the other site...
Charlton Life, Charlton Fans...
@Airman Brown @Redhenry
@nth london addick
@DOUCHER
AND Sorry for rinsing people's data...
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It always is but he means well.Redhenry said:Please don't panic, I just meant it's more complicated than @Henry Irving summary
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Oh Hi Mark.kentaddick said:
@DOUCHER being likened to tommy wiseau is one of the most accurate comparisons on this threadDazzler21 said:Charlton Fans in general
Charlton Fans from the other site...
Charlton Life, Charlton Fans...
@Airman Brown @Redhenry
@nth london addick
@DOUCHER
AND Sorry for rinsing people's data...1 -
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft3 -
Is it connected to the outstanding sofa loan payments to DFS?Redhenry said:Please don't panic, I just meant it's more complicated than @Henry Irving summary
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More like a Belgian Bugger-Aboutbarstool said:Its a Mexican stand off
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You don't have to pay them anything for the first three years, so it should be factored in.Macronate said:
Is it connected to the outstanding sofa loan payments to DFS?Redhenry said:Please don't panic, I just meant it's more complicated than @Henry Irving summary
I expect this is what's holding up the deal, as it's down as a liability on the balance sheet, but Henry made sure there isn't actually a sofa.
It's the sort of responsible and detailed DD that Duchatalet never did.5 -
Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.5 -
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I’m afraid Murray reminds me of a combination of Sméagol and Tom Riddle as they appear later in the books with slightly alter ego.1
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i have heard from an ITK source that theres a stumbling block on the sell on value of unused vol au vent cases7
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Exactly, worked like a charm, apparently protests had been planned for Charlton and Belgium, now nothing until next seasonArsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
RM has played a blinder for his boss and keeps his seat at the top table, which is, imo, all he has ever wanted.
Im really worried the old turd RD will still be in charge next season.1 -
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.0 -
Dazzler21 said:
I did not hit her, I did not... I DID NAAAT!kentaddick said:
@DOUCHER being likened to tommy wiseau is one of the most accurate comparisons on this threadDazzler21 said:Charlton Fans in general
Charlton Fans from the other site...
Charlton Life, Charlton Fans...
@Airman Brown @Redhenry
@nth london addick
@DOUCHER
AND Sorry for rinsing people's data...
If a lot of people love each other, the world would be a better place to live.Howells said:
Oh Hi Mark.kentaddick said:
@DOUCHER being likened to tommy wiseau is one of the most accurate comparisons on this threadDazzler21 said:Charlton Fans in general
Charlton Fans from the other site...
Charlton Life, Charlton Fans...
@Airman Brown @Redhenry
@nth london addick
@DOUCHER
AND Sorry for rinsing people's data...1 -
Yeah no way has Murray delivered a series of false statements just to stop protests.
I also believe Murray will want to be around under the new ownership. so pissing off fans just before that happens wouldn't be the smartest move.
He has lost a lot of respect for sticking up for KM/RD, and IMO, should have distanced himself from them rather than continue to be the mouthpiece because it's only creating problems for him.3 -
Protests at the valley have been effective, but less so recently. A combination of a lack of numbers for a big protest, a lack of people to really protest against and a lack of ideas have produced a bit of a vacuum.
Protests at the Valley have always been more about the media cover having an effect on RD rather than a direct effect.7 -
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.0 -
I’m so glad to have @DOUCHER as my best friend andiloveairmanbrownsomuch1
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OK I'll put it another way. Murray has made statements which he hoped might be true. Slightly different from knowing they weren't true.Airman Brown said:
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.0 -
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Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.randy andy said:
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.6 -
I would think he would be aiming for a proportion of the profit made from the sale of any RD-era purchase, as well as a proportion of the sale of any youth player that has made his debut during RD's tenure as owner.randy andy said:
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.0 -
Couldn't agree more, there is no reason why you'd pay Roland anything for future promotions that aren't because of anything Roland has done (I think we'd all agree it would be despite of what he's done), but I don't think that will stop him from trying to demand it somehow.Airman Brown said:
Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.randy andy said:
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
I imagine that's why this is dragging out, it'll be not only arguments over what monies Roland has any right to claim, but home much and in what timescales.0 -
which is why we ll know nothing more until the play offs finish or we dont make the play offs whichever is the soonerAirman Brown said:
Probably true and certainly in line with rumour, but it's not clear why you'd pay RD anything for a promotion to the Championship after a season which you'd funded, particularly since the extra revenue at that level is likely to be swallowed up by extra costs. I can see the argument if we are promoted this season.randy andy said:
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.1 -
Football clubs must be the only type of business where the future success is factored into the value in that way - imagine if somebody had bought toys r us and then had to pay x amount extra a couple of years later if the new company made a profit - it'd be "err no - you ran the company into the ground... if we then make it successful by investing, putting the right people in place and the correct strategy to make the business work and it does, it don't entitle you to a share in the profit- jog on"16
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I might stretch to allowing him some form of sell on for Gomez, JBG (shame they apparently neglected to think highly enough of Pope to include one). Those are deals done during his tenure.randy andy said:
If think the incremental payments in this scenario probably work something like:TelMc32 said:
That’s at least £15m over the top. I’d hope that it would at least include the £7m owed to former directors, NO additional, incremental payments to RD and a complete clean slate on his “friendly debt”. Anything other than that and someone is way out of kilter (no Scottish link there), with the business of buying football clubs.Redhenry said:
He has lowered it to 40 mill apparently. Still two left in slightly different bids. Neither been accepted as far as I knoweaststandmike said:
They don't look like they are breaking the doors down now to buy so who knows what RD is asking for.Callumcafc said:
But he can't keep bumping up the asking price to cover those losses... or he could but then no-one will buy.eaststandmike said:
But he is not "losing" is he. I thought he was "loaning" the club the money it needs each month and then charging interest on top?Taxi_Lad said:All the doom merchants saying he won’t sell til someone pays him £xxx needs to remember the club is losing (ergo RD) £1m a Month
He will sell soon. He’s a lot of things but where money is concerned he ain’t daft
£20 million now
£5 million on promotion to champ*
£10 million on promotion to premier league*
Up-to £5 in sell-on and performance payments**
*within a certain timescale
**e.g. Gomez payments/sell-ons from Liverpool, etc.
However, anything post-RD is going to be achieved with the backing of new owners and will be in spite of him and his regime, not because of him. You might stretch yourself a little further and maybe allow a small increment for promotion to the Championship within 2 years, but nothing more.1 -
No they are not, I own a refrigeration company who got maintenance contracts some lasting for 5 years, if I sold then the value / expected profit of these future maintenance would certainly be incorporated into the sales price. So yes future success is priced in many businesses sales, it’s can also be known as good will.Manicmania said:Football clubs must be the only type of business where the future success is factored into the value in that way - imagine if somebody had bought toys r us and then had to pay x amount extra a couple of years later if the new company made a profit - it'd be "err no - you ran the company into the ground... if we then make it successful by investing, putting the right people in place and the correct strategy to make the business work and it does, it don't entitle you to a share in the profit- jog on"
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Yes but how do you translate that to if we get into the premiership in a couple of years they'd owe Roland more money?
That's like saying if the new owners make a lucrative deal/contract a year after buying then the previous owners earn an extra payment?0 -
Re thread Title, has this week become next week yet, or is next week now this week, or has this week/next week become last week ?0
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£5m on promotion to the Championship, is roughly the uptick in TV cash you get.
If true, what a fucking piss take to pay him for a new owners success to subsides his failure.4
This discussion has been closed.
