The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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In my opinion, the main reason for the slightly bizarre statement re season tickets was to dupe fans into thinking the takeover is closer than it really is, in the hope of encouraging them to buy early and/or break their boycott. This will increase the value of the club (assuming this is still up for negotiation), and tie in fans for another year thus guaranteeing future revenue. This in turn will improve Roland's bargaining position by reducing ongoing losses and removing the perception to potential buyers that he's desperate to sell.ShootersHillGuru said:Seems to me that as far as the club are concerned a deal is very close and could go through in a matter of days. Why else would they mention the sale in the same statement as season tickets on the 12th. Would have been just as easy not to mention the sale at all. The only possible reason that I can see other than that is to inform both interested parties that the deal is close and thereby apply pressure. I would think that both parties must be fast approaching the point where they consider walking away.
I respect each fan's decision to buy or not, but in my opinion if you purchase a season ticket before the deal is done you are literally buying Roland more time.
The worrying thing is from comments on this and other threads, there seems to be a large section of the fan base still lapping this up. After the last few seasons I am far beyond belief that anybody believes a word of what comes out of the club anymore.
For what it's worth, I don't believe we're anywhere near a takeover. Whatever happens between now and May, Roland is going to paint this season as a success and proof that his approach works, and will either use this as an excuse not to sell, or to push up the asking price to an unrealistic level.
As for those ITK, whilst they are all well meaning I'm sure, and I'm grateful for the information they are passing on, nobody knows what's going on in Roland's head, and information coming via those connected to him or the club is only what he wants us to hear. I fear that there is too much reading of logic and rationality into actions where perhaps none exists.
I write all of this in the very real hope that ive got it completely wrong and I end up looking an idiot when the club is sold tomorrow!14 -
If you want a laugh have a read of this article by Tony Jiminez ' why I sold Charlton '
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html2 -
Lol he doesn't actually say why he sold the club. What a strange article title.charltonnick said:If you want a laugh have a read of this article by Tony Jiminez ' why I sold Charlton '
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html0 -
I don't know whether we are close to a takeover or not. But I'm not a fool and will not be easily parted with my money. Therefore it stays in my wallet until the club is in the hands of new owners. Until then, any news of season tickets going on sale does not interest me at all.Jodaius said:
In my opinion, the main reason for the slightly bizarre statement re season tickets was to dupe fans into thinking the takeover is closer than it really is, in the hope of encouraging them to buy early and/or break their boycott. This will increase the value of the club (assuming this is still up for negotiation), and tie in fans for another year thus guaranteeing future revenue. This in turn will improve Roland's bargaining position by reducing ongoing losses and removing the perception to potential buyers that he's desperate to sell.ShootersHillGuru said:Seems to me that as far as the club are concerned a deal is very close and could go through in a matter of days. Why else would they mention the sale in the same statement as season tickets on the 12th. Would have been just as easy not to mention the sale at all. The only possible reason that I can see other than that is to inform both interested parties that the deal is close and thereby apply pressure. I would think that both parties must be fast approaching the point where they consider walking away.
I respect each fan's decision to buy or not, but in my opinion if you purchase a season ticket before the deal is done you are literally buying Roland more time.
The worrying thing is from comments on this and other threads, there seems to be a large section of the fan base still lapping this up. After the last few seasons I am far beyond belief that anybody believes a word of what comes out of the club anymore.
For what it's worth, I don't believe we're anywhere near a takeover. Whatever happens between now and May, Roland is going to paint this season as a success and proof that his approach works, and will either use this as an excuse not to sell, or to push up the asking price to an unrealistic level.
As for those ITK, whilst they are all well meaning I'm sure, and I'm grateful for the information they are passing on, nobody knows what's going on in Roland's head, and information coming via those connected to him or the club is only what he wants us to hear. I fear that there is too much reading of logic and rationality into actions where perhaps none exists.
I write all of this in the very real hope that ive got it completely wrong and I end up looking an idiot when the club is sold tomorrow!9 -
Those working for months on end on the Australian bid finally decide they have had enough of Roland's procrastination.1 -
I think I beat you by a couple of weeks, bJamesSeed said:
Hey, that was my prediction!happyvalley said:happyvalley said:I reckon the announcement will be made on page 666 ( pretty apt for the old devil to piss off then ). So come on everyone get posting.
Think I'm gonna be out with this prediction as well the way things are going.happyvalley said:I reckon the announcement will be made on page 666 ( pretty apt for the old devil to piss off then ). So come on everyone get posting.
'Page 666:
Club will be sold. Henry will get his promote, and he'll take Doucher out for a curry. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria...'
I think I beat you by a couple of weeks, but let's not fall out over it.JamesSeed said:
Hey, that was my prediction!happyvalley said:happyvalley said:I reckon the announcement will be made on page 666 ( pretty apt for the old devil to piss off then ). So come on everyone get posting.
Think I'm gonna be out with this prediction as well the way things are going.happyvalley said:I reckon the announcement will be made on page 666 ( pretty apt for the old devil to piss off then ). So come on everyone get posting.
'Page 666:
Club will be sold. Henry will get his promote, and he'll take Doucher out for a curry. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria...'1 -
What’s enterprise value?bobmunro said:
Oh err - thanks for simplifying ;-)Dippenhall said:
This is being overcomplicated. Goodwill in its simplest form is a balance sheet item on the books of a company that buys another business and pays more than the value of its assets. It does not matter how that value was arrived at, the excess over the value of tangible assets acquired is "goodwill". To the seller it is nothing more than enterprise value.bobmunro said:
But that is definite future value (book value) relating to existing contracts and can be included in net asset value calculations.CharltonKerry said:
No they are not, I own a refrigeration company who got maintenance contracts some lasting for 5 years, if I sold then the value / expected profit of these future maintenance would certainly be incorporated into the sales price. So yes future success is priced in many businesses sales, it’s can also be known as good will.Manicmania said:Football clubs must be the only type of business where the future success is factored into the value in that way - imagine if somebody had bought toys r us and then had to pay x amount extra a couple of years later if the new company made a profit - it'd be "err no - you ran the company into the ground... if we then make it successful by investing, putting the right people in place and the correct strategy to make the business work and it does, it don't entitle you to a share in the profit- jog on"
Goodwill is a mythical concept that is really about the extra profitability that comes with the business compared to an industry norm - usually linked to earnings above and beyond that reasonably expected in the sector.
The possibility of promotion in football and increased earnings is very difficult to quantify as goodwill. I could start a chemical company making surface coatings for example. I couldn't build in a goodwill element to the Company value on the basis that in 5 years I could be bigger than Dulux!! I could however if my margin was 20% whereas similar companies operated at 10%. Likewise if I was two sheds I couldn't reasonably expect to build in goodwill on the basis of the potential to get to the Premier League.
If goodwill didn't exist the acquiring company's books would show it had exchanged say £1m of cash assets for £500k of tangible assets so depleting shareholder equity. The goodwill is future revenue you paid for within the purchase price that is recorded as an asset on the balance sheet of the acquiring company as "goodwill". It gets reduced each year on the assumption that the profits from the acquired business, you paid for in advance, is collected as anticipated. If the revenue doesn't materialise then your balance sheet is written down each year anyway,as if it was received, simply showing you paid away shareholder funds and got zero return.
You can value goodwill on any basis you want, and it can be as speculative as you want, but your balance sheet will eventually reflect the reality of what you have bought, as goodwill unwinds, not future fantasy land at the point of acquisition.
If the buyer is a private individual rather than a corporate, goodwill doesn't enter the discussion, it's just seen as taking a punt/paying through the nose/being taken for a ride etc.0 -
The enterprise value ? It's a deal Jim but not as we know it7
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I have not read anything on this thread to suggest that fans intend to buy a season tickets?Jodaius said:
In my opinion, the main reason for the slightly bizarre statement re season tickets was to dupe fans into thinking the takeover is closer than it really is, in the hope of encouraging them to buy early and/or break their boycott. This will increase the value of the club (assuming this is still up for negotiation), and tie in fans for another year thus guaranteeing future revenue. This in turn will improve Roland's bargaining position by reducing ongoing losses and removing the perception to potential buyers that he's desperate to sell.ShootersHillGuru said:Seems to me that as far as the club are concerned a deal is very close and could go through in a matter of days. Why else would they mention the sale in the same statement as season tickets on the 12th. Would have been just as easy not to mention the sale at all. The only possible reason that I can see other than that is to inform both interested parties that the deal is close and thereby apply pressure. I would think that both parties must be fast approaching the point where they consider walking away.
I respect each fan's decision to buy or not, but in my opinion if you purchase a season ticket before the deal is done you are literally buying Roland more time.
The worrying thing is from comments on this and other threads, there seems to be a large section of the fan base still lapping this up. After the last few seasons I am far beyond belief that anybody believes a word of what comes out of the club anymore.
For what it's worth, I don't believe we're anywhere near a takeover. Whatever happens between now and May, Roland is going to paint this season as a success and proof that his approach works, and will either use this as an excuse not to sell, or to push up the asking price to an unrealistic level.
As for those ITK, whilst they are all well meaning I'm sure, and I'm grateful for the information they are passing on, nobody knows what's going on in Roland's head, and information coming via those connected to him or the club is only what he wants us to hear. I fear that there is too much reading of logic and rationality into actions where perhaps none exists.
I write all of this in the very real hope that ive got it completely wrong and I end up looking an idiot when the club is sold tomorrow!0 -
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How most lifers view this thread.
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A similar situation to a potential payment on promotion clause, would be a company which I worked for many years ago.
The division I was in spent 2 years bidding for a make or break contract. Win it and the division had a future , lose it and there would have been a slow decline and eventual closure. If this division had been sold during this contract process, I imagine the purchase price would have been low, but with extra payments if it was successful in winning the contract.0 -
If that was true it would amount to strange not to say dishonest behaviour from at least one of the CAST board members involved with CARD and who supported CARD’s position. So I suggest it isn’t.PragueAddick said:
That isn't really correct. The Trust had already approached him to see if he would meet us, in the hope of us finding out at least something of what was going on, and to register our concerns about the way the transfer window appeared to be proceeding. As I recall, he had already agreed to do that, and he then became upset that we had asked him for a meet, and at the same time, as part of CARD, we appeared to be organising protests against him. If anything the protest call nearly sabotaged the meeting.Arsenetatters said:
I'm not really sure what you mean - but if you are asking me, then yes, I do think they are effective. This announced protest resulted in Murray speaking to the Trust. He had to do something or the protest focus would switch to him rather than RD. Apart from Tone, he is the last man standing.Airman Brown said:
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.1 -
(Insert eating popcorn gif)Airman Brown said:
If that was true it would amount to strange not to say dishonest behaviour from at least one of the CAST board members involved with CARD and who supported CARD’s position. So I suggest it isn’t.PragueAddick said:
That isn't really correct. The Trust had already approached him to see if he would meet us, in the hope of us finding out at least something of what was going on, and to register our concerns about the way the transfer window appeared to be proceeding. As I recall, he had already agreed to do that, and he then became upset that we had asked him for a meet, and at the same time, as part of CARD, we appeared to be organising protests against him. If anything the protest call nearly sabotaged the meeting.Arsenetatters said:
I'm not really sure what you mean - but if you are asking me, then yes, I do think they are effective. This announced protest resulted in Murray speaking to the Trust. He had to do something or the protest focus would switch to him rather than RD. Apart from Tone, he is the last man standing.Airman Brown said:
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.3 -
FFS this is so much old bollox it aint true------easier to understand what happened in The Prisoner from 60zTV -----i am not a number3
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I am a free man.0
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Roland was our saviour ... believe.Henry Irving said:
More and more people are fed up with CARD and are backing Roland, Katrien and Karlblackpool72 said:
The sad thing is that there are still some out there who think this is how it is.Henry Irving said:
I think we need to respect what M Duchatelet has done for us, saving the club, totally rebuilding the training ground, investing money at only 3% interest.flyingkiwiDK said:Just out of interest what’s the reaction going to be like if the news suddenly breaks that both parties have walked and the sale is off?
Are we traveling en masse to Belgium?
Let's get behind him and wait and see where we are after the next two transfer windows.
They have proved the protesters wrong.1 -
I am not a number, I am a free man etc etc
Oh and by the way, if any fucker fancies trying to rein me in using some kind of pathetic bouncy Zorb ball, I will use a flamethrower on you. Simples.1 -
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Here's what happened to number six
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/3150192#Comment_3150192
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On the radio tonight, old tango man said Arsenal have gate receipts of £120M per season, and valued the club at £1.2 billion.
What would be the value of Charlton based on the same criteria? How much were the gate receipts for last season?0 -
Matchday receipts include a few other bits and pieces but £3m in round numbers (includes season tickets).creepyaddick said:On the radio tonight, old tango man said Arsenal have gate receipts of £120M per season, and valued the club at £1.2 billion.
What would be the value of Charlton based on the same criteria? How much were the gate receipts for last season?1 -
I'm afraid my Trust board colleague PragueAddick has got it wrong.
The Trust board had discussed the pros and cons of requesting a meeting with RM but had not approached RM to try to set a meeting up before the CARD statement was issued.
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PragueAddick said:
That isn't really correct. The Trust had already approached him to see if he would meet us, in the hope of us finding out at least something of what was going on, and to register our concerns about the way the transfer window appeared to be proceeding. As I recall, he had already agreed to do that, and he then became upset that we had asked him for a meet, and at the same time, as part of CARD, we appeared to be organising protests against him. If anything the protest call nearly sabotaged the meeting.Arsenetatters said:
I'm not really sure what you mean - but if you are asking me, then yes, I do think they are effective. This announced protest resulted in Murray speaking to the Trust. He had to do something or the protest focus would switch to him rather than RD. Apart from Tone, he is the last man standing.Airman Brown said:
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.Airman Brown said:
If that was true it would amount to strange not to say dishonest behaviour from at least one of the CAST board members involved with CARD and who supported CARD’s position. So I suggest it isn’t.PragueAddick said:
That isn't really correct. The Trust had already approached him to see if he would meet us, in the hope of us finding out at least something of what was going on, and to register our concerns about the way the transfer window appeared to be proceeding. As I recall, he had already agreed to do that, and he then became upset that we had asked him for a meet, and at the same time, as part of CARD, we appeared to be organising protests against him. If anything the protest call nearly sabotaged the meeting.Arsenetatters said:
I'm not really sure what you mean - but if you are asking me, then yes, I do think they are effective. This announced protest resulted in Murray speaking to the Trust. He had to do something or the protest focus would switch to him rather than RD. Apart from Tone, he is the last man standing.Airman Brown said:
He has to know they are untrue when he makes them for him to be lying. Even the belief they are untrue is largely or entirely based on things people post here under pseudonyms (as I am, but I'm not concealing my identity). I am not criticising anyone, but people need to calm down a bit. Things have moved backwards as well as forwards in this saga. Things that were true or appeared to be true become untrue or turn out not to have been.andynelson said:Murray has made public statements which have turned out to be false. They are in VOTV. What is the difference between that and lying?
So are protests at The Valley effective or not effective? I can't keep up. Murray likely wants to void exposing the extent to which he is now regarded as an enemy, probably because he is keen to sell himself as the man the fans trust to new owners. However, you can't explain all of his statements since January 20th on the basis of an aborted protest that day. Indeed, fewer and fewer people believe him anyway.Arsenetatters said:Airman Brown said:
Murray has no medium or long-term interest in making statements that turn out not to be true. He would have been better off personally saying nothing at all. Duchatelet is just mad. Even if they were capable of crafting a conspiracy between them, it's hard to see Duchatelet would have expensive lawyers and accountants running around on the clock for months in order to deceive supporters.dickplumb said:I think Charlton fans are being lied to by Murray and Duchatelet. We are being played like a fiddle and I am sick of it. The two bids were supposed to be agreed months ago. Now we hear that no bids have been agreed. What the fuck is happening?
But he was (quite rightly) backed into a corner by the threat of the CARD protest - wasn't it meant to be calling for him to talk to the crowd? So I guess he had to say something. He just said enough to stop further protests.
This is an important clarification, and worth piecing together the exchange.Pico said:I'm afraid my Trust board colleague PragueAddick has got it wrong.
The Trust board had discussed the pros and cons of requesting a meeting with RM but had not approached RM to try to set a meeting up before the CARD statement was issued.
CAST is part of CARD and fully supported the call for a protest, so it would have been strange, to say the least, if that had nearly sabotaged a pre-arranged meeting with Richard Murray.
Thanks to @Pico for clarifying.9 -
I’m not sure about that. Roland definitely is a number 2 in my book.Big in Brasov said:We already did The Prisoner on another thread.
BTW, I think @foresthillred is number 21 -
I don't think you should copy stuff verbatim from other forums H...Henry Irving said:
I think we need to respect what M Duchatelet has done for us, saving the club, totally rebuilding the training ground, investing money at only 3% interest.flyingkiwiDK said:Just out of interest what’s the reaction going to be like if the news suddenly breaks that both parties have walked and the sale is off?
Are we traveling en masse to Belgium?
Let's get behind him and wait and see where we are after the next two transfer windows.7 -
All the rest is noise.Henry Irving said:
I think we need to respect what M Duchatelet has done for us, saving the club, totally rebuilding the training ground, investing money at only 3% interest.flyingkiwiDK said:Just out of interest what’s the reaction going to be like if the news suddenly breaks that both parties have walked and the sale is off?
Are we traveling en masse to Belgium?
Let's get behind him and wait and see where we are after the next two transfer windows.2 -
let's take this off-lineElfsborgAddick said:
All the rest is noise.Henry Irving said:
I think we need to respect what M Duchatelet has done for us, saving the club, totally rebuilding the training ground, investing money at only 3% interest.flyingkiwiDK said:Just out of interest what’s the reaction going to be like if the news suddenly breaks that both parties have walked and the sale is off?
Are we traveling en masse to Belgium?
Let's get behind him and wait and see where we are after the next two transfer windows.1 -
Coyotejohn1947 said:
Those working for months on end on the Australian bid finally decide they have had enough of Roland's procrastination.
Tommy wiseau and now office space has made its way into the thread. We’re entering the absolute peak times of this thread.Coyotejohn1947 said:
Those working for months on end on the Australian bid finally decide they have had enough of Roland's procrastination.0
