The General Election - June 8th 2017
Comments
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Don't worry. I will see him next Tuesday (see what I did there?) at the hustings at St Mildreds church.Covered End said:
He's probably hiding from youseth plum said:Currently sitting in the Salvation Army Hall in Catford waiting for the Lewisham East hustings to begin. All the candidates have turned up except the Tory.
#stalker.0 -
Corbyn on the One Show.0
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It was actually 3,881,099 Diane!!Rob7Lee said:
All very true, at the last election didn't UKIP get something like 8-9m votes? Had the Conservative party running scared. I stand by the mantra that I trust any of our political parties about as much as I do our football club owners having 'learnt lessons'....... I'll believe any of it when I actually see it and I've seen nothing for years!!harveys_gardener said:
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here, EU farming grants, EU employment laws? Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?Greenie Junior said:
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..harveys_gardener said:Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
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No G7 no Cobra!!Saga Lout said:
May and Rudd have not been running the country - parliament has been dissolved until after the election.Imissthepeanutman said:Won't be a popular point on here but May and Rudd have been running a country and an election campaign during these past difficult days. Corbyn and Abbott have only needed to run their campaign and both on specific days of new policy initiatives where they should have been fully clued up and focussed have massively fouled up. Doesn't bode well if they were in government.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.
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The cabinet and prime minister posts are still filled until the queen asks another to form a government. There are, however, no MPs currentlySaga Lout said:
May and Rudd have not been running the country - parliament has been dissolved until after the election.Imissthepeanutman said:Won't be a popular point on here but May and Rudd have been running a country and an election campaign during these past difficult days. Corbyn and Abbott have only needed to run their campaign and both on specific days of new policy initiatives where they should have been fully clued up and focussed have massively fouled up. Doesn't bode well if they were in government.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.0 -
I thought Emily Matis was in charge until after the election.0
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A shame the Tories didn't give the public an INFORMED choice which is what democracy is about.Greenie Junior said:
It's safe to say you and I are at opposite ends on the spectrum regarding Brexit, I think it's a great thing that the politicians gave the public a choice and are carrying out the choice. I'm excited for the potential this country could have if we do things right and I'm proud we took a proper chance to handle our own future, you're obviously worried and I understand and respect that.harveys_gardener said:
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? YesGreenie Junior said:
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..harveys_gardener said:Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Yes
Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here yes
EU farming grants - I'll give you that.
EU employment laws? Yes
Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?
I said I'm not voting Tory, have you considered reading my post properly?3 -
Just had a chat with Willow Winston the Millwall lady standing locally.
Told her I wouldn't be voting for her but wished her luck, and she was quite charming.0 -
Comes across a lovely guy.Callumcafc said:Corbyn on the One Show.
Not sure it's what the country needs though.0 -
The idea that Mrs May has been or will continue to be running the country is sadly optimistic.
She is very much in someone's pocket who has much interest in increasing his position at the expense of the British people.4 - Sponsored links:
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Explain ?Fiiish said:The idea that Mrs May has been or will continue to be running the country is sadly optimistic.
She is very much in someone's pocket who has much interest in increasing his position at the expense of the British people.0 -
She does what she is told by her masters in the media like a good girl. Hence why she is rolling back newspaper laws back to the dark ages.blackpool72 said:
Explain ?Fiiish said:The idea that Mrs May has been or will continue to be running the country is sadly optimistic.
She is very much in someone's pocket who has much interest in increasing his position at the expense of the British people.9 -
That's what I was thinking.WSS said:
Comes across a lovely guy.Callumcafc said:Corbyn on the One Show.
Not sure it's what the country needs though.0 -
Thought Corbyn was great personally. Glad it was done in a similar vein to Theresa May's interview a little while back. He's sometimes struggled with the way he comes across as a person.
Not sure why Corbyn can't be both a nice man and lead the country. TM came across as "nice lady" during her One Show chat but no-one held it against her.4 -
Turns out UKIP have not turnef up too
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Which laws are they?Fiiish said:
She does what she is told by her masters in the media like a good girl. Hence why she is rolling back newspaper laws back to the dark ages.blackpool72 said:
Explain ?Fiiish said:The idea that Mrs May has been or will continue to be running the country is sadly optimistic.
She is very much in someone's pocket who has much interest in increasing his position at the expense of the British people.
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@Dippenhall I always read your posts with interest, but I am always fascinated by this notion that the Conservatives are better custodians of the economy than Labour.Dippenhall said:
The EU consumer will pay 10% more for UK imports to increase EU inflation, or we export to countries that want to trade with us, that's good for the EU?Red_in_SE8 said:
Who will benefit from the 10% tariffs? The EU economy.Dippenhall said:
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.PragueAddick said:@Dippenhall
Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Who will benefit from a 7% increase in corporation tax? The UK economy.
The increase in corporation tax will help fund government investment in education, training, NHS and transport infrastructure to name just a few things. Government investment in big ticket items like these leads to increased GDP in the longer term, increased consumer demand and bigger profits for UK companies.
A 7% corporation tax does not help the economy unless the money government takes away from businesses, that otherwise would have invested, is better invested to improve output and is not pissed up the wall. It's not the motives that are necessarily wrong, it's the idea Corbyn and Abbott and McDonnell have a have a scooby doo how to achieve their aims.
Much more likely is an alliance between the Labour government Unite and Momentum to nationalise everything, fuel wage inflation without productivity gains, burn all the money they raise from tax and borrowing, run out of cash and then blame business and the rich for making the country bankrupt.
In a funny peculiar way I would like to see Corbyn get elected and sit back and watch the fun.
I will not vote Tory out of a genetic abnormality, but through a simple process of elimination of the parties least likely to destroy the economy. That's ignoring the Labour party led by chancers who have spent their attention seeking political careers as "radicals" and now in the uncomfortable position of having to justify and explain their bizarre past activities. If May is winging it Labour are flying on a wing and a prayer.
These guys run a lot of analysis on Public Spending, Budget Deficits, Public Investment, Public Debt and Unemployment. Labour come out very well on all points and appear to be more fiscally conservative than, well, the Conservatives.
http://www.primeeconomics.org/articles/taq30tk04ljnvpyfos059pp0w7gnpe
Full Fact seem to suggest that performance of both parties over more recent years has been pretty similar and Labour were overseeing a pretty steady ship - to be expected in a growing economy - until the GFC.
https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/
I'm not sure there's anything to suggest that the Conservatives are so much better managing the economy. Other than the usual suspects of Fleet Street and other forms of Murdoch media telling us that is the case.
I'm not saying I believe everything in the Labour manifesto will be delivered - no government ever does - but they have had a go at costing it and independent analysis has been only as critical of them as they have of the Conservatives.
I would be interested in understanding why you believe the Conservatives will be less likely to ruin the economy, which I am not convinced they have handled that well in the last 7 years.5 -
I don't believe that Corbyn and McDonnell ever prioritised winning this election, nor would they want to now!CharltonMadrid said:Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
Their project is to remodel the Labour party - they have changed the manifesto from "austerity lite" to what we see now; they have achieved mass membership; and over time they will reshape the parliamentary party.
And for this reason they aren't going anywhere after the election, whatever the result.
As it happens their manifesto has struck a chord with the public, the same public who voted 58:42 in the English and Welsh regions against the EU, experts and the status quo. They have galvanised the youth vote and it will take a decade or more to change the political landscape. UKIP is dead in the water and the Lib Dems are not doing much better so it's back to a straight red:blue fight.
And May has spent so much political capital trying to swallow the UKIP vote that she has "forgotten" to put together a decent manifesto.
So why doesn't Corbyn want to win? Quite simply we are heading for the worst possible outcome on Brexit and that will be catastrophic for the economy. First exchange rates dropped by 15% which has depressed ordinary peoples earnings and assets compared to the rest of the world - now inflation is creeping in. Second house prices have stopped rising and we all know what happens next! And third, financial services are starting to migrate into the EU. There is only a drip, drip of news here and there but we can expect more clarity as the Brexit dialogue evolves between July and December. It is inevitable that a percentage of jobs and the associated profits will go abroad.
And let's not get into the hundreds of bilateral treaties which will need to be negotiated after Brexit - what are the odds on getting better, same or worse terms than those negotiated by the EU on behalf of 500 million people?
If the "no deal is better than a bad deal" mantra crystalises then this will not end well. Alternatively May with a big majority might pivot to an EEA style proposal? She might aim for a broad transitionary agreement to take her to 2022 and beyond but that is not in her gift to deliver.
May appears super keen to lead on this and we can see now why Cameron took just a few hours to fall on his sword last June. It wasn't that he was the wrong man - it is that it is an impossible job and whoever does the deal will go down in history for the biggest mistake. Hats off to Burnham and Khan for stepping into metropolitan mayor roles for they can do something practical and they might return to the national stage later?
One could go on but the fact is that an expected walkover has developed into an interesting contest. Voters have a clear choice and it's obvious that Mrs "strong and stable" isn't worthy of the name. For sure this is the manifesto style which won support for the SNP but look under the bonnet and health and education in Scotland are not doing so well. Left wing populism doesn't really have a track record in delivery.
Meanwhile across the Channel, Macron and his new party are creeping up in the polls every week and look set to land a possible majority. That will do wonders for the Euro and EU economy but for UK PLC perhaps not so good?2 -
I'm no economist but haven't the Tories benefited from a few rounds of QE since they've been in power. I thought this has been used to kickstart the economy etc.
Also people have enjoyed silly interests rates on their mortgages. Does this not contribute to the overall perceived good health of the economy under the Tories1 - Sponsored links:
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PS - Seth, sorry to hear you're having a bad hustings2
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Such a rubbish excuse, the valid information was out there for anyone who wanted to find it.harveys_gardener said:
A shame the Tories didn't give the public an INFORMED choice which is what democracy is about.Greenie Junior said:
It's safe to say you and I are at opposite ends on the spectrum regarding Brexit, I think it's a great thing that the politicians gave the public a choice and are carrying out the choice. I'm excited for the potential this country could have if we do things right and I'm proud we took a proper chance to handle our own future, you're obviously worried and I understand and respect that.harveys_gardener said:
Of all the responses you could have given, that is the most bizarre. The Brexit campaign was launched by the Tory party due to threats from UKIP. It featured outright lies in the campaign, mainly from a man who is still a cabinet minister. Did we vote for a hard or soft Brexit? Did people voting leave know we'd lose trade agreements with Europe? YesGreenie Junior said:
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..harveys_gardener said:Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Did they even know we had free trade agrrements? Yes
Has May said what will happen to EU citizens here yes
EU farming grants - I'll give you that.
EU employment laws? Yes
Vote May cos she is strong and stable despite two major policy U turns in as many weeks. Have you considered supporting Millwall?
I said I'm not voting Tory, have you considered reading my post properly?4 -
Thanks for clarifying that - you learn something new every day. I remain unsympathetic to their plight though.kentaddick said:
The cabinet and prime minister posts are still filled until the queen asks another to form a government. There are, however, no MPs currentlySaga Lout said:
May and Rudd have not been running the country - parliament has been dissolved until after the election.Imissthepeanutman said:Won't be a popular point on here but May and Rudd have been running a country and an election campaign during these past difficult days. Corbyn and Abbott have only needed to run their campaign and both on specific days of new policy initiatives where they should have been fully clued up and focussed have massively fouled up. Doesn't bode well if they were in government.
No lover of the tories but they have my vote. If David Milliband or Andy burnham had been in charge it could have been a different story.0 -
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Ref. @seriously_red 's final point my French client and good friend at Havas (the French ad agency with good political instincts) was really singing Macron's praises on Monday. He certainly thinks he can gain a majority. In addition, today's FT reports:
In the eurozone, the recovery is touching parts of the region that were among the worst hit by its debt crisis. While the EU's Economic Sentiment Indicator for the region dipped slightly between April and May, readings for France and Portugal hit fresh multiyear highs. A reading for France, the region's second-largest economy and until this year one of its laggards, hit 107.7 — the highest level since June 2011.
So things can indeed change quickly. And not inexorably in the direction of nationalism, insularity and xenophobia.
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Following their leader's example.seth plum said:Currently sitting in the Salvation Army Hall in Catford waiting for the Lewisham East hustings to begin. All the candidates have turned up except the Tory.
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I think you raise an interesting point. I suspect that Corbyn's outsider status is attracting some of those who fall into the 'populist' camp,ie the more he is attacked by the political establishment the more some people feel like supporting him,despite him being a personal and political failure (a bit like some of the support for Trump or the Five Star people in Italy).CharltonMadrid said:Wonder if Labour would be polling higher or lower with a more 'conventional/palatable' leader? Is Corbyn an asset or liability? At the start of the campaign I would have said the latter but now I am not sure. What do people think?
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I think he means back to the days of free speechkinveachyaddick said:
Which laws are they?Fiiish said:
She does what she is told by her masters in the media like a good girl. Hence why she is rolling back newspaper laws back to the dark ages.blackpool72 said:
Explain ?Fiiish said:The idea that Mrs May has been or will continue to be running the country is sadly optimistic.
She is very much in someone's pocket who has much interest in increasing his position at the expense of the British people.0 -
I wonder if the script she's reading says make strange facial expressions and pause for laughter?
https://youtu.be/to3OHICF5VY
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