I wonder what the opinions of the people criticising Jeremy Corbyns talks with Sinn Fein around 30 years ago are with regards to Theresa May being in talks with the DUP?
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
After all, if it was so outrageous for Jeremy Corbyn to have links with the IRA then surely it's even worse for May to form government with a party so closely linked to Loyalist terrorism?
Otherwise, you know, it might look a bit like rank fucking hypocrisy.
Not sure where we are now, but I agree with the Political commentator who said last night that really the result is unsatisfactory for everyone.
The Tories didn't achieve an overall majority let alone the big majority that May was after and although they can probably cobble together a government with the help of the DUP in the short term, her position going forward looks very weak.
Labour made real strides under Corbyn who comes out of this well, but they are still nearly 60 seats behind the Tories and not in any position to form a government. The Lib Dems made slight gains but hardly enough to make any difference, and the SNP lost a third of their seats, and any chance of another independence vote is surely now gone.
My only real conclusion from this is that we are very likely to see another election later in the year similar to 1974 whether we like it or not.
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
After all, if it was so outrageous for Jeremy Corbyn to have links with the IRA then surely it's even worse for May to form government with a party so closely linked to Loyalist terrorism?
Otherwise, you know, it might look a bit like rank fucking hypocrisy.
Yeah i wonder if Murdoch and his billionaire media pals will have articles about them all over their front pages
We had a referendum on PR in 2011 and it was rejected
That was actually nothing to do with PR.
It was about ensuring each MP received at least 50% of their constituency vote. Similar (but not the same as) the French system whereby eventually Macron achieved over 60% of the vote in the final round.
Unfortunately everyone thought it was PR and rejected the idea!
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
After all, if it was so outrageous for Jeremy Corbyn to have links with the IRA then surely it's even worse for May to form government with a party so closely linked to Loyalist terrorism?
Otherwise, you know, it might look a bit like rank fucking hypocrisy.
Moreover, what does it do for power sharing in NI when the political wing of the nationalist murderers continue to not take their seats at Westminster, and the UK government is shored up by the political wing of the unionist murderers.
Rob, I don't think you can just look at this result in terms of absolute number of seats. There's so much subtext to this. From the start I said anything but an increase in their majority would be a failure for the Tories, a loss of seats would be a disaster but what we actually got was verging on one of the biggest fuck ups in political history. Sure, they're still in power, just but for me it's all about momentum.
When this election was announced how many honestly thought it would end up like this? Corbyn was so far behind that Labour not being wiped off the political map altogether was being seen by some as doing well.
Labour still lost the election, that can't be ignored but it isn't what was important here. We all felt that the Tories would win but in losing the election Labour still won. I guess you could say lost the battle to win the war but we will have to wait and see how the war pans out.
I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the results itself in comparison to what has come before. I've said a few times this morning that the Conservatives royally messed up, utter utter failure and Labour did well - both from where they were, but even in those circumstances when you compare yesterday to the previous 6 elections it's not as if the country has listened to Corbyn's ideas and said 'yup that's for me' compared to previous labour leaders, he is still well short of a majority and just about joint 2nd worst election result for Labour in the last 7 elections or 25 years.
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
After all, if it was so outrageous for Jeremy Corbyn to have links with the IRA then surely it's even worse for May to form government with a party so closely linked to Loyalist terrorism?
Otherwise, you know, it might look a bit like rank fucking hypocrisy.
Moreover, what does it do for power sharing in NI when the political wing of the nationalist murderers continue to not take their seats at Westminster, and the UK government is shored up by the political wing of the unionist murderers.
Indeed - this lot have views that would make Attila the Hun blush - and yet they will hold the balance of power in the 5th largest economy in the world.
Didn't the Tories claim in 2015 that Labour plus the SNP in government would be a "Coalition of Chaos?"
What a humiliation for May. And Cameron and Osborne will be laughing their bollocks off.
Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
Agree.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?
What's all this 'far left' bit, please? How about a reaction to the utter shit that we have endured for decades? Let's call it 'Socialism' and explore its benefits. Why couch Corbyn and Co. in negatives? Accentuate the positives; they are numerous. Don't bleat 'What are they, then?' The path, and the 'answers' are obvious.
You can term it how you like, far left or socialism. But It's not centre and it's not right so it's somewhere left!
I think we are in danger of getting away with ourselves especially if you are comparing this result to the last couple of decades. The actual election process has been really interesting, fantastic that the younger voters seem to be engaged and have turned out, a massive plus and probably were key to how the vote ended.
But we need to put results in perspective rather than just how they have improved or worsened since an election 2 years ago which was a disaster for Labour and the Lib Dems, fantastic for SNP and UKIP (in vote count if not in seats) and pretty good for Conservatives as it gave them an increase to take them to a majority.
So Labour has roughly the same number of seats as it had in 2010 which was cited a disaster at the time, yet this time around it's the second coming, a wave of change, a new movement etc etc. Still nearly 60 short of the Conservatives and still less than they had in 1992.
Conservatives have managed to screw up compared to where they were but still have more seats than they did in 2010 under the last coalition and more than any other election pre 2015 since 1992.
I think we are getting caught up in the moment of May royally screwing up and Corbyn doing considerably better than expected rather than the actual picture/political landscape.
Labour still have nearly 100 less seats than in 2005 when they were last in power. Corbyn has been a success compared to where he was and May a failure (from where she was), but Labour are still massively short of being anywhere near being an elected government and I don't think that will change under Corbyn, he's simply too far left (or socialist!).
So I'm sure Labour are patting themselves on the back of a job well done, and probably rightly so, but don't kid yourself that this is some kind of landmark moment that will change the next 20 years. Charlton finished 13th in the table when it looked for a long time it could be 19th or worse, does that make last season a roaring success because of an improvement at the end? Or did it simply end better than what many of us expected.......?
A comparison with Bliar is like comparing seaweed to sheep's wee. Anything can, in theory, be compared to anything, but much of it means little, or nothing. Bliar wooed the Tory vote and rewarded it with 'more of the same'. His 'vision' was false and, in time, it foundered.(Rockets and bombs, Bliar, rockets and bombs. And the result of which is.....?)
Corbyn has an agenda that largely rejects what has gone on in recent times, and sets course on a different path. I thoroughly disapprove of those who say 'radical', 'far left', etc. It's 'radical' only when held up to the staus quo. Which, in my opinion, is debased, unworthy and discredited. Who is genuinely happy, for the most part, with their 'lot' in recent years? Or, if they are, can they not see that things might be better?
The 'old system' / status quo is unfit and perverse. A new generation demands better. And some of us older ones, who have been battling for similar for eons, wish to join in. For the betterment not of 'self', but for the many (if not all).
I prefer your interpretation , which I do consider to be excellent analysis
Whilst at first glance this election is pointless I think we can expect some important changes: The conservatives will have an imensely strong government, Labour will have a reality check with UKIP, Greens and Lib Dems all achieving similar vote numbers to labour thus making people from all spectrums finally call for a representative voting system. Also the SNP will be challenged as many scots are becoming fed up with the division being caused within Scotland over the possibility of a second referendum.
I think this will be a very important election.
Who, in your opinion, will challenge the SNP?
Well many Scottish people are becoming fed up with the constant argument over UK membership, hence large support on the government petition website against another referendum to further divide Scotland. I'm not claimin they will lose their majority in Scotland but wouldn't be surprised if the conservatives managed to pull a couple seats back
I am not coming out of this government arrangement with any kind of satisfaction. Honestly, I would rather May had gone and said "Ok Jezza - try and run a minority government and take on the by now universally unpopular Brexit fallout that comes with it". She goes quietly, and we have a new election in 6-12 months that will hopefully lead to a single majority government.
As a central Tory - to answer the question - there is a lot about the DUP I am not comfortable with.
Rob, I don't think you can just look at this result in terms of absolute number of seats. There's so much subtext to this. From the start I said anything but an increase in their majority would be a failure for the Tories, a loss of seats would be a disaster but what we actually got was verging on one of the biggest fuck ups in political history. Sure, they're still in power, just but for me it's all about momentum.
When this election was announced how many honestly thought it would end up like this? Corbyn was so far behind that Labour not being wiped off the political map altogether was being seen by some as doing well.
Labour still lost the election, that can't be ignored but it isn't what was important here. We all felt that the Tories would win but in losing the election Labour still won. I guess you could say lost the battle to win the war but we will have to wait and see how the war pans out.
I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the results itself in comparison to what has come before. I've said a few times this morning that the Conservatives royally messed up, utter utter failure and Labour did well - both from where they were, but even in those circumstances when you compare yesterday to the previous 6 elections it's not as if the country has listened to Corbyn's ideas and said 'yup that's for me' compared to previous labour leaders, he is still well short of a majority and just about joint 2nd worst election result for Labour in the last 7 elections or 25 years.
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
It is the challenge not to move to the right and it won't now. That was our objective. The polls converged and we probably needed another month. Corbyn has gone from the local election results due to the in -fighting when the election was called to reeling in a 20 point lead. If you watched the incredible convergence and really analysed it you would see it for what it is - one of the most meteoric rises in a short space of time in political history.
Rob, I don't think you can just look at this result in terms of absolute number of seats. There's so much subtext to this. From the start I said anything but an increase in their majority would be a failure for the Tories, a loss of seats would be a disaster but what we actually got was verging on one of the biggest fuck ups in political history. Sure, they're still in power, just but for me it's all about momentum.
When this election was announced how many honestly thought it would end up like this? Corbyn was so far behind that Labour not being wiped off the political map altogether was being seen by some as doing well.
Labour still lost the election, that can't be ignored but it isn't what was important here. We all felt that the Tories would win but in losing the election Labour still won. I guess you could say lost the battle to win the war but we will have to wait and see how the war pans out.
I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the results itself in comparison to what has come before. I've said a few times this morning that the Conservatives royally messed up, utter utter failure and Labour did well - both from where they were, but even in those circumstances when you compare yesterday to the previous 6 elections it's not as if the country has listened to Corbyn's ideas and said 'yup that's for me' compared to previous labour leaders, he is still well short of a majority and just about joint 2nd worst election result for Labour in the last 7 elections or 25 years.
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
Yep pretty much agree. I feel that a lot of this movement was an anti Tory vote rather than a move towards true left wing/Socialism. I just hope that both parties still see this as a catalyst for change. The Tories seriously have to think about changing the current mindset and move more centre. Corby should see this as an opportunity to pinch more Tory seats with a slight change in approach.
Whatever happens it certainly is an interesting time and like I said last night I hope that this truly is the beginning of change because it is certainly needed regardless of your political viewpoint.
These papers do my nut. The day before polling day the standard come out and tell us we should vote Tory for the good of the capital. Today they want some headline grabbing rubbish to distance themselves.
You backed her, you made your bed, you lie in it. Don't suddenly be all jumping on the bandwagon of the Tory battering. Pathetic once again from the media
Not surprising given the tuition fees pledge. Why wouldn't young Zack with his 5 C grade GCSEs want his loan paid off after completing his very useful degree in Surf Science & Technology
These papers do my nut. The day before polling day the standard come out and tell us we should vote Tory for the good of the capital. Today they want some headline grabbing rubbish to distance themselves.
You backed her, you made your bed, you lie in it. Don't suddenly be all jumping on the bandwagon of the Tory battering. Pathetic once again from the media
Why aren't press allowed to criticise the government?! Isn't that what you've been asking for all along.
Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
Corbyn is who he is - there is no value in him pitching to the centre.
I am no fan of his politics - ridiculously ambitious and unrealistic - but he energised millions of young voters with his Socialist manifesto, so why the hellchange course now?
Getting 40% of the vote is a big deal, sure the seats are not high enough but the numbers of new voters he brought in were amazing.
I can't believe I am saying this but by the end Corbyn really had cut through with people, they could see he was real and not putting up some bullshit facade.
Of course, in government he would be a fucking disaster but in the campaign he did extremely well and is going to get much, much stronger.
Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
Are the DUP like the loyalist equivalent of Sinn Fein ? I.e were they the political wing of one (or more) of the loyalist paramilitaries back in the day but now stand as a legitimate party with no (official) link to terrorist/paramilitary groups ?
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
Can't wait to see the right wing nutters vociferously condemning Teresa May for jumping into bed with the DUP - a political party with historic links to Loyalist terror groups the UVF and UDA who killed hundreds of people during The troubles.
Comments
After all, if it was so outrageous for Jeremy Corbyn to have links with the IRA then surely it's even worse for May to form government with a party so closely linked to Loyalist terrorism?
Otherwise, you know, it might look a bit like rank fucking hypocrisy.
Kensington result
or
Next General Election
The Tories didn't achieve an overall majority let alone the big majority that May was after and although they can probably cobble together a government with the help of the DUP in the short term, her position going forward looks very weak.
Labour made real strides under Corbyn who comes out of this well, but they are still nearly 60 seats behind the Tories and not in any position to form a government. The Lib Dems made slight gains but hardly enough to make any difference, and the SNP lost a third of their seats, and any chance of another independence vote is surely now gone.
My only real conclusion from this is that we are very likely to see another election later in the year similar to 1974 whether we like it or not.
It was about ensuring each MP received at least 50% of their constituency vote. Similar (but not the same as) the French system whereby eventually Macron achieved over 60% of the vote in the final round.
Unfortunately everyone thought it was PR and rejected the idea!
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
Didn't the Tories claim in 2015 that Labour plus the SNP in government would be a "Coalition of Chaos?"
What a humiliation for May. And Cameron and Osborne will be laughing their bollocks off.
Gets my vote in October.
As a central Tory - to answer the question - there is a lot about the DUP I am not comfortable with.
Whatever happens it certainly is an interesting time and like I said last night I hope that this truly is the beginning of change because it is certainly needed regardless of your political viewpoint.
You backed her, you made your bed, you lie in it. Don't suddenly be all jumping on the bandwagon of the Tory battering. Pathetic once again from the media
Damned if they do..
I am no fan of his politics - ridiculously ambitious and unrealistic - but he energised millions of young voters with his Socialist manifesto, so why the hellchange course now?
Getting 40% of the vote is a big deal, sure the seats are not high enough but the numbers of new voters he brought in were amazing.
I can't believe I am saying this but by the end Corbyn really had cut through with people, they could see he was real and not putting up some bullshit facade.
Of course, in government he would be a fucking disaster but in the campaign he did extremely well and is going to get much, much stronger.
A quick Google search should set you straight - try 'Peter Robinson Ulster Resistance' for a start.