I don't think huskaris is expressing a view on either, and could even be saying that are as bad as each other... It's just that right and left tend to focus on different ones. Which they do.
And this is basically what I was getting at. Anyone who has a strong opinion against one and not the other is simply satisfying their own prejudices.
Well i have a strong opinion on both. They are both cruel and should be banned
Then you hold a perfectly valid opinion that can't be accused of hypocrisy. My problem comes with people that have a problem with one but not the other.
I don't think huskaris is expressing a view on either, and could even be saying that are as bad as each other... It's just that right and left tend to focus on different ones. Which they do.
And this is basically what I was getting at. Anyone who has a strong opinion against one and not the other is simply satisfying their own prejudices.
Well i have a strong opinion on both. They are both cruel and should be banned
Then you hold a perfectly valid opinion that can't be accused of hypocrisy. My problem comes with people that have a problem with one but not the other.
I do have a problem with Halal. I think most Halal butchery involves pre-stunning which basically makes it different to other butchery only because of the saying of a prayer. But there is a significant percentage of Halal butchery where there is no pre-stunning. I would like to see this banned in this country.
I do have a problem with Halal. I think most Halal butchery involves pre-stunning which basically makes it different to other butchery only because of the saying of a prayer. But there is a significant percentage of Halal butchery where there is no pre-stunning. I would like to see this banned in this country.
I would like to see it banned world wide. But i never Will unfortunately
No, but we do need to put animal rights high on our own priorities. I have struggled with this aspect of eating meat and continue to do so as whilst I love sausages and bacon, I think I am close to giving up pork. Simply because pigs are potentially as intelligent as dogs and dogs are bloody intelligent.
I was doing some research, and in this country 84% of all Halal meat has been killed humanely - animal being stunned first. The Koran actually refers to treating the death of the animal as humanely as possible. “Allaah has decreed kindness (or proficiency) in all things. So when you kill, kill well, and when you slaughter, slaughter well. Let one of you sharpen his blade and spare suffering to the animal he slaughters. What we have to do is turn that 84% figure in this country into 100%.
What is interesting is how some fundamental followers of Islam seem to apply rules that are not in the Koran.
I would like to invite people to do their own research and draw their own conclusionsbut want to explain why I hold the views I do. Start with a great US president and one of the elite. A book was written about him titled Traitor to his class. Well worth a read. He was not a Communist but a Republican. He realised what caused the great depression and that the solution involved what was known as the three Rs. Relief, Recovery, and Reform: relief for the unemployed and poor, recovery of the economy to normal levels, and reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression. The success of this explains why many believe he was the greatest US president of all time.
Then look to the 80s and the introduction of a new doctrine. One we still adhere to, and one that needs crushing. One that turned back to what things were like before the positive changes where people had never had it so good! The new greed is good doctrine introduced by Regan and Thatcher. Where great power was given to Financial institutions and corporations to do as they pleased with. In the prophetic words of Spiderman - with great power comes great responsibility. Unfortunately, this has been lacking in those with the great power since. And we are where we are now, with great wealth and even greater poverty and suffering. With people killing themselves through graft, just to survive financially.
Look up what the difference was in the 80s between the lowest paid in a company and the highest. It averaged out at about 10 times more for the CEO. Which most CEOs were more than happy with at the time. Now it is 150 times and rising! Why didn't it have to be like that before and does now? The argument Thatcher gave so eloquently in the Commons was that wealth would trickle down to the poorest. And it probably did for a while, until the rich elite got greedier and greedier when they realised they could pocket the money trickling down too and there was a realisation that the poor were a commodity to make the rich richer.
Then look at the reasons for the economic crash in 2008. It wasn't caused by a big state, but by the greed of bankers who could do as they pleased. In the crazy economics we created for ourselves, higher risk means higher profits. So these reckless, greedy people sought out inventing new risks. They racked their brains and they found an answer, mortgages for poor Americans who could never afford to pay them back! It was perfect. Well we know what happened next. The recklessness that damaged us all was criminal - that is a given. Cameron told us so, Osborne told us so and even many bankers have told us so - that isn't my statement. So how many of these criminal bankers were jailed or even tried? One hundred? No, Fifty? No, Ten? No, One? No. None is the answer. Ask yourself why that was?
So the recklessness of criminal bankers was the birth of this austerity that has made nearly everybody's life a bit shitter. Some a lot shitter than others! Ok, we may not have sent them to jail, but they lost their jobs and incomes........didn't they? No we, the poor included, bailed them out and these same people have got richer and are following the same path like nothing happened. Quantative easing, the right thing to do if you create money to stimulate the economy, was simply given to the banks to sit on! And make the bankers richer.
So this massive deficit we were left with, whose fault was it? It was workers with half decent pensions and half decent jobs. It was the employees serving the state, like Police, Firemen, nurses and other civil servants. Their pensions were no longer affordable -and the services they provided were no longer affordable or so we were told. Meanwhile, money was thrown at the bankers to sort out the mess thay caused. So much so that they have got richer than they were before the crash they caused - so much for we are in this together!
Lets go back to the Republican Roosevelt. How much do you think the very rich were taxed in his time? Not the rich, I mean the very rich - that very is an important distinction. We are talking about the 1%. It was in excess of 90% of their earnings. They still did alright though - the entreprenuers worked hard and made more money. I am not advocating the rich pay 90%, but that they did - not under socialists but capitalists deserves refelection and undertsanding. How much tax does Rupert Murdoch pay? It is under 6% and maybe we should research Apple and Google.....and Amazon and Starbucks. If you buy something from Amazon - you get some Luxumberg address on the invoice. But the website you purchased that something from was Amazon.co.uk, the product was stored in a warehouse in the UK, it was posted using the UK postal service, it may even have been made in the UK. But you have Luxumberg on the invoice? Why? Research that and add the words tax havens and avoidence for good measure.
I'll tell you something about my company - We refuse orders from Jersey and the Channel Islands. It may not be legal - I don't know - we say it is too much hassle to post there to cover ourselves, but it is a moral stance. Well companies in this part of Britain don't pay tax when they purchase from us. There are some products we sell which are tax exempt for understandable reasons, but these companies can say, we shouldn't be charged tax full stop because of where we are. It is because they are in tax havens. Remember the scandal around the boss of the Daily Mail and Tory donor Lord Rothermere and his non domicile status. He has most of his money tied up in the Caymen Islands, another British created tax haven. He lives in this country by the way, a bit like Amazon really where in some alternative reality that we have created they can put Luxemburg on their labels.
Do your research and ask yourself questions. And those of you who have lived a few years - look around you. Even if you have a nice house and a nice car, even if you are retired, and ask yourself as you look around your town or city.......have things got shitter? Look carefully and ask yourself why. History teaches us many lessons and we can still draw parallels. I am a capitalist, but left to the devices of the imoral and greedy, capitalism doesn't work. It works when it encourages hard work and aspiration but with a set of rules. De-regulate and it becomes a monster.
After the war, the deficit in real terms was double what it is now. But the solution was to stimulate. The greatest economist that ever lived taught us how to fix the problem -He has a town named after him. A town not popular in football circles. But he shares that honour with another economist. That town was named after two economists. For me, one of the worst economists and bell ends of the twentieth century - Milton Friedman. The greed is good economist. I think a great day will come when that town removes the first part of it's name.
Do your own research, ask you own questions and draw your own conclusions, but this is how I have drawn mine.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
I would like to invite people to do their own research and draw their own conclusionsbut want to explain why I hold the views I do. Start with a great US president and one of the elite. A book was written about him titled Traitor to his class. Well worth a read. He was not a Communist but a Republican. He realised what caused the great depression and that the solution involved what was known as the three Rs. Relief, Recovery, and Reform: relief for the unemployed and poor, recovery of the economy to normal levels, and reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression. The success of this explains why many believe he was the greatest US president of all time.
Then look to the 80s and the introduction of a new doctrine. One we still adhere to, and one that needs crushing. One that turned back to what things were like before the positive changes where people had never had it so good! The new greed is good doctrine introduced by Regan and Thatcher. Where great power was given to Financial institutions and corporations to do as they pleased with. In the prophetic words of Spiderman - with great power comes great responsibility. Unfortunately, this has been lacking in those with the great power since. And we are where we are now, with great wealth and even greater poverty and suffering. With people killing themselves through graft, just to survive financially.
Look up what the difference was in the 80s between the lowest paid in a company and the highest. It averaged out at about 10 times more for the CEO. Which most CEOs were more than happy with at the time. Now it is 150 times and rising! Why didn't it have to be like that before and does now? The argument Thatcher gave so eloquently in the Commons was that wealth would trickle down to the poorest. And it probably did for a while, until the rich elite got greedier and greedier when they realised they could pocket the money trickling down too and there was a realisation that the poor were a commodity to make the rich richer.
Then look at the reasons for the economic crash in 2008. It wasn't caused by a big state, but by the greed of bankers who could do as they pleased. In the crazy economics we created for ourselves, higher risk means higher profits. So these reckless, greedy people sought out inventing new risks. They racked their brains and they found an answer, mortgages for poor Americans who could never afford to pay them back! It was perfect. Well we know what happened next. The recklessness that damaged us all was criminal - that is a given. Cameron told us so, Osborne told us so and even many bankers have told us so - that isn't my statement. So how many of these criminal bankers were jailed or even tried? One hundred? No, Fifty? No, Ten? No, One? No. None is the answer. Ask yourself why that was?
So the recklessness of criminal bankers was the birth of this austerity that has made nearly everybody's life a bit shitter. Some a lot shitter than others! Ok, we may not have sent them to jail, but they lost their jobs and incomes........didn't they? No we, the poor included, bailed them out and these same people have got richer and are following the same path like nothing happened. Quantative easing, the right thing to do if you create money to stimulate the economy, was simply given to the banks to sit on! And make the bankers richer.
So this massive deficit we were left with, whose fault was it? It was workers with half decent pensions and half decent jobs. It was the employees serving the state, like Police, Firemen, nurses and other civil servants. Their pensions were no longer affordable -and the services they provided were no longer affordable or so we were told. Meanwhile, money was thrown at the bankers to sort out the mess thay caused. So much so that they have got richer than they were before the crash they caused - so much for we are in this together!
Lets go back to the Republican Roosevelt. How much do you think the very rich were taxed in his time? Not the rich, I mean the very rich - that very is an important distinction. We are talking about the 1%. It was in excess of 90% of their earnings. They still did alright though - the entreprenuers worked hard and made more money. I am not advocating the rich pay 90%, but that they did - not under socialists but capitalists deserves refelection and undertsanding. How much tax does Rupert Murdoch pay? It is under 6% and maybe we should research Apple and Google.....and Amazon and Starbucks. If you buy something from Amazon - you get some Luxumberg address on the invoice. But the website you purchased that something from was Amazon.co.uk, the product was stored in a warehouse in the UK, it was posted using the UK postal service, it may even have been made in the UK. But you have Luxumberg on the invoice? Why? Research that and add the words tax havens and avoidence for good measure.
I'll tell you something about my company - We refuse orders from Jersey and the Channel Islands. It may not be legal - I don't know - we say it is too much hassle to post there to cover ourselves, but it is a moral stance. Well companies in this part of Britain don't pay tax when they purchase from us. There are some products we sell which are tax exempt for understandable reasons, but these companies can say, we shouldn't be charged tax full stop because of where we are. It is because they are in tax havens. Remember the scandal around the boss of the Daily Mail and Tory donor Lord Rothermere and his non domicile status. He has most of his money tied up in the Caymen Islands, another British created tax haven. He lives in this country by the way, a bit like Amazon really where in some alternative reality that we have created they can put Luxemburg on their labels.
Do your research and ask yourself questions. And those of you who have lived a few years - look around you. Even if you have a nice house and a nice car, even if you are retired, and ask yourself as you look around your town or city.......have things got shitter? Look carefully and ask yourself why. History teaches us many lessons and we can still draw parallels. I am a capitalist, but left to the devices of the imoral and greedy, capitalism doesn't work. It works when it encourages hard work and aspiration but with a set of rules. De-regulate and it becomes a monster.
After the war, the deficit in real terms was double what it is now. But the solution was to stimulate. The greatest economist that ever lived taught us how to fix the problem -He has a town named after him. A town not popular in football circles. But he shares that honour with another economist. That town was named after two economists. For me, one of the worst economists and bell ends of the twentieth century - Milton Friedman. The greed is good economist. I think a great day will come when that town removes the first part of it's name.
Do your own research, ask you own questions and draw your own conclusions, but this is how I have drawn mine.
Nail on head. Tax evasion and tax base erosion through multinationals moving profits to low tax territories is estimated to cost countries some 4% of GDP. Many western democracies have a deficit of 3% GDP. So there is a different approach that could be taken to balance the books.
If we made Starbucks pay tax on their British earnings, would they move all their British coffee shops to Luxemburg?
And even if they did move them all to Luxembourg I'd say let em. If there is a demand for coffee then someone would soon fill the gap. Isn't that the "market" working ?
Starbucks is the worst of all the chains anyway, even worse than Costa. Starbucks is vile, and you get it in a glass, Costa can't even provide saucers with the cup in the actual middle. If I have to it is Nero, and all of them are expensive anyway, and all of those fecking cafes have wobbly tables that get kicked by passers by and coffee ends up in the saucer or something.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
So how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
So how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
I think the main difference is that Corbyn's soundbite is Brexit for jobs. At least this stance recognises that the economy can't afford for brexit to decimate the workforce. It like all soundbites means very little but at least isn't the ridiculous stance by May and the swivel eye loons of give us a good deal or we walk.
Starbucks is the worst of all the chains anyway, even worse than Costa. Starbucks is vile, and you get it in a glass, Costa can't even provide saucers with the cup in the actual middle. If I have to it is Nero, and all of them are expensive anyway, and all of those fecking cafes have wobbly tables that get kicked by passers by and coffee ends up in the saucer or something.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
So how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
I think the main difference is that Corbyn's soundbite is Brexit for jobs. At least this stance recognises that the economy can't afford for brexit to decimate the workforce. It like all soundbites means very little but at least isn't the ridiculous stance by May and the swivel eye loons of give us a good deal or we walk.
The problem is @ShootersHillGuru that neither May nor Corbyn give any confidence on just about anything, least of all Brexit.
Having principles is one thing, being able to implement them is something completely different.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
So how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
Corbyn is pro EU, but anti EU financial policies such as imposed austerity. He is for trade agreements with the EU. What is going to stop Brexit is public opinion, not Corbyn or May- but May will ignore public opinion when it reaches the sort of numbers that demand a rethink, or at least she will try to. There are Conservatives who oppose her approach which can give us hope.
Corbyn, because of where his party is positioned would respond. The challenge for us Pro remainers in to continue the battle and argue for public opinion so we are talking about 20% leads in the remain position, not 2% to 5%. That is how Brexit will be reversed and of course a government open to it needs to be at the helm. Of course there will be shouts from the usual suspects of Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson that we have voted and another referendum is undemocratic - i.e. you can't keep asking the question until you get the result you want. But the answer is of course, if the British people change their mind, it is undemocratic to hold them to the previous decision.
Corbyn's position is the right one - but we need to fight to change public opinion so that people who voted Brexit can see what a disaster it will be. If Labour held a firm remain position now, Brexit would be more likely IMO and a hard Brexit even more likely as this would polarise opinion between the Tories and Labour.
Jeremy Corby is not perfect by any means...... he does not exude charisma, is not a powerful speaker (although his words are inspirational and powerful if you listen to them). But he is a deeply principled man, a very good campaigner, and most of all a breath of fresh air. For the first time in generations, a normal human being is within breathing distance of Number 10, offering the country a truly different future, and it is an opportunity Britain cannot afford to lose. Especially as its trajectory now, is looking so depressing!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
So how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
Corbyn is pro EU, but anti EU financial policies such as imposed austerity. He is for trade agreements with the EU. What is going to stop Brexit is public opinion, not Corbyn or May- but May will ignore public opinion when it reaches the sort of numbers that demand a rethink, or at least she will try to. There are Conservatives who oppose her approach which can give us hope.
Corbyn, because of where his party is positioned would respond. The challenge for us Pro remainers in to continue the battle and argue for public opinion so we are talking about 20% leads in the remain position, not 2% to 5%. That is how Brexit will be reversed and of course a government open to it needs to be at the helm. Of course there will be shouts from the usual suspects of Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson that we have voted and another referendum is undemocratic - i.e. you can't keep asking the question until you get the result you want. But the answer is of course, if the British people change their mind, it is undemocratic to hold them to the previous decision.
Corbyn's position is the right one - but we need to fight to change public opinion so that people who voted Brexit can see what a disaster it will be. If Labour held a firm remain position now, Brexit would be more likely IMO and a hard Brexit even more likely as this would polarise opinion between the Tories and Labour.
He has proved throughout his political career that he is anti-EU. However let's leave that aside for the moment.
You haven't answered the question: how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
My point is he isn't - it is down for us (pro remainers) to win the argument over the next year or so. When the clear majority is there, Brexit will not happen, especially if the Tories are not in power.
Starbucks is the worst of all the chains anyway, even worse than Costa. Starbucks is vile, and you get it in a glass, Costa can't even provide saucers with the cup in the actual middle. If I have to it is Nero, and all of them are expensive anyway, and all of those fecking cafes have wobbly tables that get kicked by passers by and coffee ends up in the saucer or something.
And none of them can make a decent cup of tea!
Don't even get me started. English style tea is an art form very few people can manage.
Comments
But i never Will unfortunately
What is interesting is how some fundamental followers of Islam seem to apply rules that are not in the Koran.
Then look to the 80s and the introduction of a new doctrine. One we still adhere to, and one that needs crushing. One that turned back to what things were like before the positive changes where people had never had it so good! The new greed is good doctrine introduced by Regan and Thatcher. Where great power was given to Financial institutions and corporations to do as they pleased with. In the prophetic words of Spiderman - with great power comes great responsibility. Unfortunately, this has been lacking in those with the great power since. And we are where we are now, with great wealth and even greater poverty and suffering. With people killing themselves through graft, just to survive financially.
Look up what the difference was in the 80s between the lowest paid in a company and the highest. It averaged out at about 10 times more for the CEO. Which most CEOs were more than happy with at the time. Now it is 150 times and rising! Why didn't it have to be like that before and does now? The argument Thatcher gave so eloquently in the Commons was that wealth would trickle down to the poorest. And it probably did for a while, until the rich elite got greedier and greedier when they realised they could pocket the money trickling down too and there was a realisation that the poor were a commodity to make the rich richer.
Then look at the reasons for the economic crash in 2008. It wasn't caused by a big state, but by the greed of bankers who could do as they pleased. In the crazy economics we created for ourselves, higher risk means higher profits. So these reckless, greedy people sought out inventing new risks. They racked their brains and they found an answer, mortgages for poor Americans who could never afford to pay them back! It was perfect. Well we know what happened next. The recklessness that damaged us all was criminal - that is a given. Cameron told us so, Osborne told us so and even many bankers have told us so - that isn't my statement. So how many of these criminal bankers were jailed or even tried? One hundred? No, Fifty? No, Ten? No, One? No. None is the answer. Ask yourself why that was?
So the recklessness of criminal bankers was the birth of this austerity that has made nearly everybody's life a bit shitter. Some a lot shitter than others! Ok, we may not have sent them to jail, but they lost their jobs and incomes........didn't they? No we, the poor included, bailed them out and these same people have got richer and are following the same path like nothing happened. Quantative easing, the right thing to do if you create money to stimulate the economy, was simply given to the banks to sit on! And make the bankers richer.
So this massive deficit we were left with, whose fault was it? It was workers with half decent pensions and half decent jobs. It was the employees serving the state, like Police, Firemen, nurses and other civil servants. Their pensions were no longer affordable -and the services they provided were no longer affordable or so we were told. Meanwhile, money was thrown at the bankers to sort out the mess thay caused. So much so that they have got richer than they were before the crash they caused - so much for we are in this together!
Lets go back to the Republican Roosevelt. How much do you think the very rich were taxed in his time? Not the rich, I mean the very rich - that very is an important distinction. We are talking about the 1%. It was in excess of 90% of their earnings. They still did alright though - the entreprenuers worked hard and made more money. I am not advocating the rich pay 90%, but that they did - not under socialists but capitalists deserves refelection and undertsanding. How much tax does Rupert Murdoch pay? It is under 6% and maybe we should research Apple and Google.....and Amazon and Starbucks. If you buy something from Amazon - you get some Luxumberg address on the invoice. But the website you purchased that something from was Amazon.co.uk, the product was stored in a warehouse in the UK, it was posted using the UK postal service, it may even have been made in the UK. But you have Luxumberg on the invoice? Why? Research that and add the words tax havens and avoidence for good measure.
I'll tell you something about my company - We refuse orders from Jersey and the Channel Islands. It may not be legal - I don't know - we say it is too much hassle to post there to cover ourselves, but it is a moral stance. Well companies in this part of Britain don't pay tax when they purchase from us. There are some products we sell which are tax exempt for understandable reasons, but these companies can say, we shouldn't be charged tax full stop because of where we are. It is because they are in tax havens. Remember the scandal around the boss of the Daily Mail and Tory donor Lord Rothermere and his non domicile status. He has most of his money tied up in the Caymen Islands, another British created tax haven. He lives in this country by the way, a bit like Amazon really where in some alternative reality that we have created they can put Luxemburg on their labels.
Do your research and ask yourself questions. And those of you who have lived a few years - look around you. Even if you have a nice house and a nice car, even if you are retired, and ask yourself as you look around your town or city.......have things got shitter? Look carefully and ask yourself why. History teaches us many lessons and we can still draw parallels. I am a capitalist, but left to the devices of the imoral and greedy, capitalism doesn't work. It works when it encourages hard work and aspiration but with a set of rules. De-regulate and it becomes a monster.
After the war, the deficit in real terms was double what it is now. But the solution was to stimulate. The greatest economist that ever lived taught us how to fix the problem -He has a town named after him. A town not popular in football circles. But he shares that honour with another economist. That town was named after two economists. For me, one of the worst economists and bell ends of the twentieth century - Milton Friedman. The greed is good economist. I think a great day will come when that town removes the first part of it's name.
Do your own research, ask you own questions and draw your own conclusions, but this is how I have drawn mine.
Great post Mutts!
The concerning election of Donald Trump proved one thing. That conventional wisdom can be turned on its head in these troubled times. There is hope that that Corbyn can do the same thing, albeit with very different implications for the rest of the world. I Say world, because the evidence of history that predicts crashes like 2008 when you let the greedy do as they please - it has all happened before, also shows us how you fix it. And it isn't by rewarding those who are to blame for the crash and carry on as before and robbing the poor and even the not so poor middle class or even the rich but not silly rich. It is with the policies Corbyn intends to introduce. When Corbyn makes things better for ordinary people like us, it will impact on the rest of the world - Sanders in the US, countries across Europe. We know the establishment see the risks to their abuse of power - not just in this country and they are going to pull out all the stops to prevent it. The threat Corbyn poses to them will not be underestimated again. But he has been let out of the box by the carelessness of the establishment because they did not see the threat. And it is our duty to ensure he is not put back in that box.
Tax evasion and tax base erosion through multinationals moving profits to low tax territories is estimated to cost countries some 4% of GDP. Many western democracies have a deficit of 3% GDP. So there is a different approach that could be taken to balance the books.
Starbucks is vile, and you get it in a glass, Costa can't even provide saucers with the cup in the actual middle. If I have to it is Nero, and all of them are expensive anyway, and all of those fecking cafes have wobbly tables that get kicked by passers by and coffee ends up in the saucer or something.
He is anti-EU and his party is, primarily, pro-EU. What will he do that demonstrates his leadership skills?
Don't get me wrong, I have no time for May, but I see nothing to convince me that Corbyn, on this issue, is any better.
Having principles is one thing, being able to implement them is something completely different.
Corbyn, because of where his party is positioned would respond. The challenge for us Pro remainers in to continue the battle and argue for public opinion so we are talking about 20% leads in the remain position, not 2% to 5%. That is how Brexit will be reversed and of course a government open to it needs to be at the helm. Of course there will be shouts from the usual suspects of Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson that we have voted and another referendum is undemocratic - i.e. you can't keep asking the question until you get the result you want. But the answer is of course, if the British people change their mind, it is undemocratic to hold them to the previous decision.
Corbyn's position is the right one - but we need to fight to change public opinion so that people who voted Brexit can see what a disaster it will be. If Labour held a firm remain position now, Brexit would be more likely IMO and a hard Brexit even more likely as this would polarise opinion between the Tories and Labour.
You haven't answered the question: how is Corbyn going to implement the biggest issue of the day, Brexit?
Can I have your evidence that firstly this is his approach, and secondly that Brexit will not happen?
English style tea is an art form very few people can manage.