Don't order tea in coffee shops because they don't boil the water, they use the heated water from the coffee machine which is lower than boiling point, which fails to activate the tea properly.
Don't order tea in coffee shops because they don't boil the water, they use the heated water from the coffee machine which is lower than boiling point, which fails to activate the tea properly.
Didn't know that!
I usually drink green tea and that is fine in Costa.
Don't order tea in coffee shops because they don't boil the water, they use the heated water from the coffee machine which is lower than boiling point, which fails to activate the tea properly.
Didn't know that!
I usually drink green tea and that is fine in Costa.
I hate the big coffee chains. In Hampton Hill there is a wonderful doggie cafe called, 'Paws for Coffee', who make you so welcome even if you don't own a dog. You see the dogs hauling their owners over the road from Bushy Park because they love the place so much and get their free doggie treats. Viva the independent coffee houses - especially those who can in fact make a decent cup of breakfast tea. Anyway, the tories have well and truly landed us all into this Brexit mess and it is down to them to sort it out. Can we land some decent trade deals? Well I like to think so but for sure by going it alone we will be quite an expensive island to live on. I just shudder at the inept politicians we have today in all the parties, especially the ones who put their ego first.
So your answer to the question is that Corbyn will not implement Brexit because it will not happen?
Can I have your evidence that firstly this is his approach, and secondly that Brexit will not happen?
No, that isn't what I said. Corbyn has given his position, he wants to negotiate a Brexit for jobs - that is a Brexit respecting the referendum outcome. My point is that Brexit can be stopped, but only by winning the argument to the level where the majority against Brexit is clear. My secondary point is that Corbyn would be more likely to react positively to this than May - although May may also have to if people in her party rebel.
As a remainer, I don't undertsand the attitude of some remainers - yes it will be a disaster to leave the EU, but we had a referendum and you can't ignore the result and holding another referendum when the vote is so close wouldn't be the cleverest thing to do. Especially as the mere fact there is another referendum would galvanise the Brexiters. The argument has to be won in the hearts and minds of the people. Another year of shambolic and confusing EU negotiations will help. I don't understand why remainers are seeking answers from Corbyn given the current situation. We all have to help convince people that Brexit is a mistake, and act when the time is right.
So your answer to the question is that Corbyn will not implement Brexit because it will not happen?
Can I have your evidence that firstly this is his approach, and secondly that Brexit will not happen?
No, that isn't what I said. Corbyn has given his position, he wants to negotiate a Brexit for jobs - that is a Brexit respecting the referendum outcome. My point is that Brexit can be stopped, but only by winning the argument to the level where the majority against Brexit is clear. My secondary point is that Corbyn would be more likely to react positively to this than May - although May may also have to if people in her party rebel.
As a remainer, I don't undertsand the attitude of some remainers - yes it will be a disaster to leave the EU, but we had a referendum and you can't ignore the result and holding another referendum when the vote is so close wouldn't be the cleverest thing to do. Especially as the mere fact there is another referendum would galvanise the Brexiters. The argument has to be won in the hearts and minds of the people. Another year of shambolic and confusing EU negotiations will help. I don't understand why remainers are seeking answers from Corbyn given the current situation. We all have to help convince people that Brexit is a mistake, and act when the time is right.
I am sure that you know that you have again avoided my originsl question. I am not asking for your point of view. I want evidence and proof of the approach that Corbyn will take to Brexit.
You have continually failed to provide this which just reinforces my initial contention that he has no more idea than May.
But he has said what his approach is - He supports a soft Brexit. It is not for me to make something up! And I have not avoided your question, I just may not be the right person to answer it.
I think the main difference between him and May on this issue is that he has more remainers around him whilst she has some strong Brexiters. So not so much them, but their parties.
But he has said what his approach is - He supports a soft Brexit. It is not for me to make something up! And I have not avoided your question, I just may not be the right person to answer it.
I think the main difference between him and May on this issue is that he has more remainers around him whilst she has some strong Brexiters. So not so much them, but their parties.
Can you therefore assist me in providing a link to where he says this?
As far as I can make out, he is a fence-sitter and has not had the balls to set out his Brexit strategy in any kind of detail.
As I said before, principles are one thing, implementing them is another.
I don't think I can assist you because the EU negotiations are so complex, I think you are asking too much for any politician, unless they are in or out at any cost to give their position. They can only give their aim when entering into negotiations. The difference in how we see it, is you see it as fence sitting and I see it as being pragmatic and realistic.
I don't think I can assist you because the EU negotiations are so complex, I think you are asking too much for any politician, unless they are in or out at any cost to give their position. They can only give their aim when entering into negotiations. The difference in how we see it, is you see it as fence sitting and I see it as being pragmatic and realistic.
I am asking too much for the leader of one of our main political parties to set out his strategy on the biggest issue this country has faced in decades?!?
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
Labour have a difficulty with Brexit. A lot of their 'traditional' support in their so called heartlands voted for it, as did the 52% so politically Labour have to acknowledge it as a reality. To deny Brexit happening would be damaging for Labour. However Labour have realised that the meaning of Brexit can be interpreted in virtually any way you like, and my understanding is that their thing will be about protecting workers rights, and resisting the off shore tax haven dream of the likes of the swivel eyed. Labour are well advised to downplay what they think Brexit means and to attack, relentlessly, the Tory Brexit, for it is indeed the collective wriggling and writhing of the Tories that have got us into this nightmare. I am disappointed that as a party Labour has not been more anti Brexit, the hope is that they can be anti the mechanics of Brexit every step of the way.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
@Cordoban Addick has set out some important policy differences between Labour and the government's inept, confusing and vague approach. They are not in power so aren't in a position to do much more than that in reality.
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation. The Tories went chasing UKIP voters and ended up lumbering us with this mess, why should their political opponents assist them and end up sharing the blame? Look at the way the Lib Dems ended up carrying the can for the coalition policies.
I don't think I can assist you because the EU negotiations are so complex, I think you are asking too much for any politician, unless they are in or out at any cost to give their position. They can only give their aim when entering into negotiations. The difference in how we see it, is you see it as fence sitting and I see it as being pragmatic and realistic.
I am asking too much for the leader of one of our main political parties to set out his strategy on the biggest issue this country has faced in decades?!?
That tells me all I need to know.
That's pretty ironic isn't it when the senior negotiator for the eu27 cannot get what you are asking of Mr. Corbyn from the people actually negotiating Brexit for Great Britain. Namely Theresa May and Duckface Davis.
I don't think I can assist you because the EU negotiations are so complex, I think you are asking too much for any politician, unless they are in or out at any cost to give their position. They can only give their aim when entering into negotiations. The difference in how we see it, is you see it as fence sitting and I see it as being pragmatic and realistic.
I am asking too much for the leader of one of our main political parties to set out his strategy on the biggest issue this country has faced in decades?!?
That tells me all I need to know.
That's pretty ironic isn't it when the senior negotiator for the eu27 cannot get what you are asking of Mr. Corbyn from the people actually negotiating Brexit for Great Britain. Namely Theresa May and Duckface Davis.
No argument with condemning those two - but Corbyn is not saying anything even from a broad perspective.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
@Cordoban Addick has set out some important policy differences between Labour and the government's inept, confusing and vague approach. They are not in power so aren't in a position to do much more than that in reality.
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation. The Tories went chasing UKIP voters and ended up lumbering us with this mess, why should their political opponents assist them and end up sharing the blame? Look at the way the Lib Dems ended up carrying the can for the coalition policies.
The Tories made their bed and all that...
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation.
I agree but this issue is too important to the country to play political blame games. I would expect the leader of the opposition to be stating his broad outline of the way forward.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
No problem with most of those but how does Corbyn intend to handle them? Without detail, they are just soundbites.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
I don't think I can assist you because the EU negotiations are so complex, I think you are asking too much for any politician, unless they are in or out at any cost to give their position. They can only give their aim when entering into negotiations. The difference in how we see it, is you see it as fence sitting and I see it as being pragmatic and realistic.
I am asking too much for the leader of one of our main political parties to set out his strategy on the biggest issue this country has faced in decades?!?
That tells me all I need to know.
That's pretty ironic isn't it when the senior negotiator for the eu27 cannot get what you are asking of Mr. Corbyn from the people actually negotiating Brexit for Great Britain. Namely Theresa May and Duckface Davis.
No argument with condemning those two - but Corbyn is not saying anything even from a broad perspective.
Corbyn was on Marr this morning and said plenty from a broad perspective.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
@Cordoban Addick has set out some important policy differences between Labour and the government's inept, confusing and vague approach. They are not in power so aren't in a position to do much more than that in reality.
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation. The Tories went chasing UKIP voters and ended up lumbering us with this mess, why should their political opponents assist them and end up sharing the blame? Look at the way the Lib Dems ended up carrying the can for the coalition policies.
The Tories made their bed and all that...
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation.
I agree but this issue is too important to the country to play political blame games. I would expect the leader of the opposition to be stating his broad outline of the way forward.
You've moved from being ironic to being nieve. There is not a politician of any hue that doesn't play party politics. The conservatives have managed to take this fact to a completely new level in recent times. First with Cameron for offering a referendum in the first place to appease the right wing of his party and in an effort to claw back UKIP voters despite the question being too big for ordinary Joe to consider and more recently in May calling a general election solely to take advantage of the initial polls despite having said she wouldn't.
Politicians are opportunists and loyal to party over country. It's why the electorate in general despise them.
In some defence of Corbyn I'm not sure how he can give an outline of what GB needs to do when he is removed from the process and emerging facts.
I'm so glad that the eu27 are going to make this whole Brexit thing a transparent negotiation. It will ultimately show our political class up for being the incompetents and chancers that they are.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
I'd like to challenge that thinking and in a respectful way: First, Labour has processes for making policy and manifesto and the line of jobs first plus something "like" the CU/SM was sound and certainly more definite than the blue vocabulary. Why should they make policy "on the hoof" when there is a way to go and we all expect clarity albeit from the EU27.
Second, as pointed out the Conservatives are the party in power who should provide solutions. Umunna tried with an amendment to the Queen's speech to put in something about the single market but that was entirely inappropriate and heavily defeated.
And finally, Labour are in this to win power, not help out the clowns who walked into this mess. There are much bigger issues out there which concern the electorate such as the NHS, austerity, tuition fees etc. So Labour should continue developing their entire agenda then communicating, rather than become embroiled in solving Brexit on behalf of the blue crowd.
Bottom line is that if we stay in the SM/CU/EEA then the damage will be limited - but the Tories have to fight that battle within their own party. Labour has no dog in that fight and simply wants to watch it continue. May is only still in a job because a leadership contest would rip them apart.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
No problem with most of those but how does Corbyn intend to handle them? Without detail, they are just soundbites.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
Fair enough, we will agree to differ.
Above you ask for a broad perspective from Labour, now you want detail (which is a reasonable ask). I suggest that you will get a detailed response from Labour when they see the detail of the Tory plan. At the moment the only Tory 'detail' seems to be fingers crossed and hope for the best.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
I'd like to challenge that thinking and in a respectful way: First, Labour has processes for making policy and manifesto and the line of jobs first plus something "like" the CU/SM was sound and certainly more definite than the blue vocabulary. Why should they make policy "on the hoof" when there is a way to go and we all expect clarity albeit from the EU27.
Second, as pointed out the Conservatives are the party in power who should provide solutions. Umunna tried with an amendment to the Queen's speech to put in something about the single market but that was entirely inappropriate and heavily defeated.
And finally, Labour are in this to win power, not help out the clowns who walked into this mess. There are much bigger issues out there which concern the electorate such as the NHS, austerity, tuition fees etc. So Labour should continue developing their entire agenda then communicating, rather than become embroiled in solving Brexit on behalf of the blue crowd.
Bottom line is that if we stay in the SM/CU/EEA then the damage will be limited - but the Tories have to fight that battle within their own party. Labour has no dog in that fight and simply wants to watch it continue. May is only still in a job because a leadership contest would rip them apart.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
No problem with most of those but how does Corbyn intend to handle them? Without detail, they are just soundbites.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
Fair enough, we will agree to differ.
Above you ask for a broad perspective from Labour, now you want detail (which is a reasonable ask). I suggest that you will get a detailed response from Labour when they see the detail of the Tory plan. At the moment the only Tory 'detail' seems to be fingers crossed and hope for the best.
@seth plum I expect nothing from many of the Tory politicians, most are incapable of doing so.
My point on starting this particular conversation is that I hoped Corbyn had more to offer on the subject. Thus far, I am not convinced.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
No problem with most of those but how does Corbyn intend to handle them? Without detail, they are just soundbites.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
Fair enough, we will agree to differ.
Above you ask for a broad perspective from Labour, now you want detail (which is a reasonable ask). I suggest that you will get a detailed response from Labour when they see the detail of the Tory plan. At the moment the only Tory 'detail' seems to be fingers crossed and hope for the best.
@seth plum I expect nothing from many of the Tory politicians, most are incapable of doing so.
My point on starting this particular conversation is that I hoped Corbyn had more to offer on the subject. Thus far, I am not convinced.
@seriously_red said above Labour don't really have a dog in this fight, especially in terms of detail. Entirely right. The Tories are firmly in the lead on this. The Tory initiated Brexit happened and the 27 other countries are only required to be reactive, the same goes for the Labour party, they need only react to the unfolding Tory nightmare because it is the Tories themselves who fought the election campaign on a platform of excluding Labour from the brexit shenanigans.
@stonemuse and @MuttleyCAFC , I think Labour's position over Brexit is vague and vague for a reason, they are the party of opposition and Brexit will seriously damage the Tories. They are very much (imo) playing a waiting game, whilst this is frustrating I think it is designed to squeeze the Tories more and win the next election.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The text in bold perfectly illustrates my, and many others, frustration.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
As @Bournemouth Addick says, I have laid out some pretty clear broad strokes and tried to explain why the rest might be vague. To be honest I didn't expect it to be good enough for you because I don't think that was what you were looking for.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
No problem with most of those but how does Corbyn intend to handle them? Without detail, they are just soundbites.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
Fair enough, we will agree to differ.
Above you ask for a broad perspective from Labour, now you want detail (which is a reasonable ask). I suggest that you will get a detailed response from Labour when they see the detail of the Tory plan. At the moment the only Tory 'detail' seems to be fingers crossed and hope for the best.
@seth plum I expect nothing from many of the Tory politicians, most are incapable of doing so.
My point on starting this particular conversation is that I hoped Corbyn had more to offer on the subject. Thus far, I am not convinced.
I think that's entirely reasonable but as @seriously_red has posted the major concern for Corbyn is to see Labour win the next general election. At present that aim is best served by watching and waiting. The outcome of Brexit will be just as divisive as Brexit itself. 50% of the country at least will be disapointed. They will look for someone to blame. In the box seat for that blame are the Conservative party. It's a mess entirely of their own making and the only way I see them mitigating any of the mess they've made is to let May trundle on and replace her just before negotiations conclude. She takes the major flak and the Tories hope whoever replaces her can get a clean slate. That imho is their only plan. I also believe it's not going to work.
The conservatives actually could have a small chink of light should they have the foresight to use it but they won't because like all governments they are drunk on power and ego. They could invite Corbyn into the negotiations and let him take some of the flak when it enevitably all goes wrong. Corbyn could hardly be seen to refuse the offer.
Comments
I usually drink green tea and that is fine in Costa.
Anyway, the tories have well and truly landed us all into this Brexit mess and it is down to them to sort it out. Can we land some decent trade deals? Well I like to think so but for sure by going it alone we will be quite an expensive island to live on. I just shudder at the inept politicians we have today in all the parties, especially the ones who put their ego first.
As a remainer, I don't undertsand the attitude of some remainers - yes it will be a disaster to leave the EU, but we had a referendum and you can't ignore the result and holding another referendum when the vote is so close wouldn't be the cleverest thing to do. Especially as the mere fact there is another referendum would galvanise the Brexiters. The argument has to be won in the hearts and minds of the people. Another year of shambolic and confusing EU negotiations will help. I don't understand why remainers are seeking answers from Corbyn given the current situation. We all have to help convince people that Brexit is a mistake, and act when the time is right.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/
You have continually failed to provide this which just reinforces my initial contention that he has no more idea than May.
I think the main difference between him and May on this issue is that he has more remainers around him whilst she has some strong Brexiters. So not so much them, but their parties.
As far as I can make out, he is a fence-sitter and has not had the balls to set out his Brexit strategy in any kind of detail.
As I said before, principles are one thing, implementing them is another.
That tells me all I need to know.
My belief is that the Tories got us into Brexit and they are the party of government it is they we should be expecting some kind of grand plan from, what have Labour got to gain from laying all cards on the table now?
They have some broad stroke differences to the Tories which have been mentioned by Muttley and others before, this includes wanting to protect jobs and civil rights, being less adversarial and they also of course believe a negotiated plan is better than no plan. Labour are also much more likely to support the ECJ and they do of course want to guarantee EU citizens rights in the UK. They have also said that they will bring any deal back to Parliament for approval (taking back control!).
Other areas where they have a different approach to the Tories are being less closed to some kind of controlled free movement. This would allow more chance of retaining something similar to the single market (which of course we have to leave as we are leaving the EU).
These two things would of course then make staying in the Customs Union more likely or retaining some kind of 'membership' (but I don't know what that will look like). Finally and importantly Labour will oppose the great repeal bill if it allows individual cabinet ministers the chance to pick and choose rights without recourse to Parliament.
The Labour party, at this key juncture in our history, should not be playing a waiting game. They themselves should be bold and set out how they see the future and plan to take us forward.
There is not exactly that much time to waste in a waiting game. It is all fence-sitting - let's see which way the wind blows and we will choose that direction. Not exactly helpful is it!
I am, by inclination, a Labour voter - however, there have been times when I refused to vote for them. I have read two Corbyn biographies, both interesting, but both re-inforcing the point that Corbyn has, from the beginning, been generally anti-EU.
Is it too much to ask that the leader of the 2nd biggest political party in this country outline to us, even in broad terms, his strategy?
The fact is, he won't. Just like May played the waiting game when Cameron left and did not provide us with anything solid in respect of her policies, Corbyn is playing the same game.
A lot of their 'traditional' support in their so called heartlands voted for it, as did the 52% so politically Labour have to acknowledge it as a reality. To deny Brexit happening would be damaging for Labour.
However Labour have realised that the meaning of Brexit can be interpreted in virtually any way you like, and my understanding is that their thing will be about protecting workers rights, and resisting the off shore tax haven dream of the likes of the swivel eyed.
Labour are well advised to downplay what they think Brexit means and to attack, relentlessly, the Tory Brexit, for it is indeed the collective wriggling and writhing of the Tories that have got us into this nightmare.
I am disappointed that as a party Labour has not been more anti Brexit, the hope is that they can be anti the mechanics of Brexit every step of the way.
As for playing a waiting game and doing the best for Labour we could point to pretty much any Tory policy of the last 40 years and make the same allegation. The Tories went chasing UKIP voters and ended up lumbering us with this mess, why should their political opponents assist them and end up sharing the blame? Look at the way the Lib Dems ended up carrying the can for the coalition policies.
The Tories made their bed and all that...
I agree but this issue is too important to the country to play political blame games. I would expect the leader of the opposition to be stating his broad outline of the way forward.
I have emboldened 11 areas from my post (which was off the top of my head) where Labour has made some kind of statement on Brexit where they will be different from the Tories, what do you think of these? I think that is a broad strategy, whether you agree with or not is a different matter.
I guess I will leave it there. Personally I expect the leader of the opposition to provide more detail on the implementation of any policies when we are discussing the biggest issue in decades. The responses I am receiving are that he does not need to.
Fair enough, we will agree to differ.
Politicians are opportunists and loyal to party over country. It's why the electorate in general despise them.
In some defence of Corbyn I'm not sure how he can give an outline of what GB needs to do when he is removed from the process and emerging facts.
I'm so glad that the eu27 are going to make this whole Brexit thing a transparent negotiation. It will ultimately show our political class up for being the incompetents and chancers that they are.
First, Labour has processes for making policy and manifesto and the line of jobs first plus something "like" the CU/SM was sound and certainly more definite than the blue vocabulary. Why should they make policy "on the hoof" when there is a way to go and we all expect clarity albeit from the EU27.
Second, as pointed out the Conservatives are the party in power who should provide solutions. Umunna tried with an amendment to the Queen's speech to put in something about the single market but that was entirely inappropriate and heavily defeated.
And finally, Labour are in this to win power, not help out the clowns who walked into this mess. There are much bigger issues out there which concern the electorate such as the NHS, austerity, tuition fees etc. So Labour should continue developing their entire agenda then communicating, rather than become embroiled in solving Brexit on behalf of the blue crowd.
Bottom line is that if we stay in the SM/CU/EEA then the damage will be limited - but the Tories have to fight that battle within their own party. Labour has no dog in that fight and simply wants to watch it continue. May is only still in a job because a leadership contest would rip them apart.
At the moment the only Tory 'detail' seems to be fingers crossed and hope for the best.
My point on starting this particular conversation is that I hoped Corbyn had more to offer on the subject. Thus far, I am not convinced.
The Tories are firmly in the lead on this. The Tory initiated Brexit happened and the 27 other countries are only required to be reactive, the same goes for the Labour party, they need only react to the unfolding Tory nightmare because it is the Tories themselves who fought the election campaign on a platform of excluding Labour from the brexit shenanigans.
The conservatives actually could have a small chink of light should they have the foresight to use it but they won't because like all governments they are drunk on power and ego. They could invite Corbyn into the negotiations and let him take some of the flak when it enevitably all goes wrong. Corbyn could hardly be seen to refuse the offer.
https://google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/09/jeremy-corbyn-uk-is-better-off-out-of-eu-with-managed-migration
https://google.co.uk/amp/www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/05/general-election-means-jeremy-corbyns-euroscepticism-finally-asset%3Famp