It is amazing how the Prime Minister's general ineptness in this campaign (e.g. she thinks it is OK NHS workers survive on food banks, humiliation in Scotland, refusing to let people take her photo etc.) is barely being reported by the media.
Whilst Diane Abbott makes a fairly minor gaffe regarding paying for a policy and by teatime every news outlet, including the BBC, is trying to see who can have the biggest and most colourful 'DIANE ABBOTT IS A FAT IDIOT LET'S LAUGH AT HER' graphic at the top of their front page.
Apart from the fact it wasn't "a fairly minor gaffe" was it? It was a genuine display of incompetence from one of the major players who was being asked to outline a pledge.
This is what frustrates me with the left. If something doesn't go in their favour, which lets be frank, that Abbott interview couldn't have gone any worse thanks to her inability - then there is always the knee jerk reaction from the left to blame the "right wing/bias" media.
One of Labour's leaders has shown herself up massively to the nation ahead of a general election, that's why it's a headline. Nothing to do with some sort of 'bias' that you're trying to suggest.
I voted Tory at the last election so I'm hardly 'the left'. But even I can see the blatant media bias in this country.
In the grand scheme of things, it is a minor gaffe, at least compared to the Prime Minister making a complete embarrassment of herself and our country in front of 27 other leaders. Yet that barely got a tenth of the coverage Diane is getting for fluffing an interview.
Tories never seem to have to give details of their policies, how they are going to be costed and what impact they will have, yet other parties are expected to have fully costed policies, fully fleshed out, what timeframes they are going to be executed in and so on. All the Tories are doing is banging on about 'strong and stable'.
And all Labour bang on about is the Tories. That's all I ever hear from the current hard left involved with Labour - "Tories this, scum that".
So much so that today when Abbott was asked to discuss a policy she couldn't do it without completely falling on her arse.
She didn't merely fluff up the interview. She demonstrated that she is fundamentally incompetent at this sort of thing. Had that been a Conservative party member then it would have been absolutely lambasted by Labour probably x10 more than you're suggesting the media are pushing it.
It's not though is it? Theresa May has made some major gaffe nearly every day in the last week and it has barely been reported. That is the fact. Theresa May has demonstrated several times over she is not fit to be PM but she doesn't get a Sky News 24 hour rolling coverage of her gaffe unlike Diane got yesterday.
We have May who is not fit to be PM and Corbyn who I agree is not fit to be PM. So what is the choice? - I'll tell you what it is - Give May a bloody nose - The Tories will still get in, but 48% of a high turnout voted remain in the referendum. They surely understand the damage and disaster we are facing. Whilst the will of the people has to be respected, what the detail of that will was, was very vague. We have to vote for representatives who will hold May to account and make her deliver a soft Brexit, whatever the colour of their rosettes! Those 48% will be Tories, Labour voters, Liberals etc... and they all have to realise that this election can't be about one incompetent party leader over another.
We have the weird situation where Corbyn as prime minister would not be as damaging as May. He can't be, because the fool seems happy to walk away from a single market which has brought prosperity to this country. The damage can't be calculated. The best we can hope for is that May gets in with the same majority or a smaller one. This will discredit her and force her to change direction or resign.
It is amazing how the Prime Minister's general ineptness in this campaign (e.g. she thinks it is OK NHS workers survive on food banks, humiliation in Scotland, refusing to let people take her photo etc.) is barely being reported by the media.
Whilst Diane Abbott makes a fairly minor gaffe regarding paying for a policy and by teatime every news outlet, including the BBC, is trying to see who can have the biggest and most colourful 'DIANE ABBOTT IS A FAT IDIOT LET'S LAUGH AT HER' graphic at the top of their front page.
Apart from the fact it wasn't "a fairly minor gaffe" was it? It was a genuine display of incompetence from one of the major players who was being asked to outline a pledge.
This is what frustrates me with the left. If something doesn't go in their favour, which lets be frank, that Abbott interview couldn't have gone any worse thanks to her inability - then there is always the knee jerk reaction from the left to blame the "right wing/bias" media.
One of Labour's leaders has shown herself up massively to the nation ahead of a general election, that's why it's a headline. Nothing to do with some sort of 'bias' that you're trying to suggest.
I voted Tory at the last election so I'm hardly 'the left'. But even I can see the blatant media bias in this country.
In the grand scheme of things, it is a minor gaffe, at least compared to the Prime Minister making a complete embarrassment of herself and our country in front of 27 other leaders. Yet that barely got a tenth of the coverage Diane is getting for fluffing an interview.
Tories never seem to have to give details of their policies, how they are going to be costed and what impact they will have, yet other parties are expected to have fully costed policies, fully fleshed out, what timeframes they are going to be executed in and so on. All the Tories are doing is banging on about 'strong and stable'.
And all Labour bang on about is the Tories. That's all I ever hear from the current hard left involved with Labour - "Tories this, scum that".
So much so that today when Abbott was asked to discuss a policy she couldn't do it without completely falling on her arse.
She didn't merely fluff up the interview. She demonstrated that she is fundamentally incompetent at this sort of thing. Had that been a Conservative party member then it would have been absolutely lambasted by Labour probably x10 more than you're suggesting the media are pushing it.
It's not though is it? Theresa May has made some major gaffe nearly every day in the last week and it has barely been reported. That is the fact. Theresa May has demonstrated several times over she is not fit to be PM but she doesn't get a Sky News 24 hour rolling coverage of her gaffe unlike Diane got yesterday.
Diane disagree's, Sky covered her for 240 hours yesterday
How complex can it be? They can't afford food. Mainly because nurses are having to work ludicrous hours in horrendous conditions for terrible pay and it's getting worse under this government.
But your bloke don't like gay sex
Why, do you?
Hadn't realised that about you, but as a lib.Dem. kinda guy myself, I have no issue with it at all.
You're welcome
Could you just remind us of your top three pro Liberal posts? I think they must have escaped us among your investment and wine and other noisy posts.
Well, you seem to dip in and out of CL, so maybe you missed my support for my previous MP Ed Davey on relevant threads on here to the point where posters such as @Addickted enjoyed poking fun at the extent of it. I was even a Lib Dem party member in the earlier years of his stewardship.
My posts on investments and wine appear in the threads dedicated to that subject. If they don't interest you, don't read the effing threads.
Labour and Diane Abbott proving yet again that maths really isn't their strong point.
Utopia costs money don't you know.
If you look at the figures since Tory austerity, so does living in the seventh circle of hell...
Possibly because we were paying for Labours punt at running the country previously?
There are numerous articles that address the myth that Labour overspent during its time in office. Like this one which references that car crash tv moment when the audience all groaned at Miliband during one of the debates...
They groaned not at the answer, because they really hadn't heard it yet, but because what he had started to (badly) explain was not what they wanted or expected to hear. Labour completely failed to counter the Tory's narrative that they were economically illiterate and somehow responsible for a global recession.
And they still aren't doing so hence comments like yours.
This is not to say they were brilliant and got everything right, they obviously didn't and I've never seen anyone say so.
All the stats and commentary you need around the economic performance of the parties is available in seconds these days. If voters are voting on that basis shouldn't they take a more rounded view than taking as gospel what one party (or newspaper) tells you about the other?
Sorry, but I have to quote Adolf Hitler here. He once said - If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. The Tories have created this myth and now everybody believes it. For anybody with half an interest in economics, they will realise that the post Credit Crunch actions of Darling, Brown and other governments saved our skins. It was an expensive rescue, but one that had to happen.
The Conservatives have then picked that point and used it to damn the Labour government. What would they have done differently? What was happening was the government propping up the banks and what was happening afterwards was that Darling was stimulating the economy and creating growth. We were then getting all this rubbish about not spending what you don't have, but it doesn't work like that. It is always about the difference between what you are spending and what your revenues are. If the economy is growing, you have greater revenues.
Tory chancellors sort of get this, HS2 is an example, but fiscal easing - printing money for the banks to sit on doesn't fix the problem. You have to make every pound work - put it into a worker's pocket, who will put it into another worker's pocket and make it earn you money through tax revenues over and over rather than it sit in a vault!
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
No different to When Blair was in charge and Alistair Campbell would control everything.
I never forget the tory lie about them being the party of low taxation. I know it's going back but on newsnight Micheal heseltine in 1997 says tax had remained broadly flat during there tenure. A chart was then shown to him saying when they came to power in 1979 it was 33% and in the last election year of course thanks to tory electorate bribes was now 34%. In the interim years it had been about 40%.
Clearly a very emotive and sad situation. But it is without doubt true that any bereavement payments either under the old scheme or the new one are completely inadequate to assist in looking after a family in any meaningful way. I assume therefore that the remaining family members are also entitled to other (also probably inadequate) benefit payments like Universal Credit or whatever.
Anyway, setting that aside for a moment, here's some questions. Okay, they are awkward but relevant just the same.
One, did this individual think so very little about his wife that he decided it was sensible to raise a family before having adequate life insurance in place for both parents? Why would anyone do that? If he did have adequate life insurance in place for both partners, why would his family now need help from the State? Is it the State's role to provide for everyone no matter what? Should there be any limits at all on state spending on benefits? Do we think that people bear no personal responsibility for their own decisions at all?
Whatever way you are going to vote, if you've got a family, get some adequate insurance ffs, it'll probably be cheaper than your mobile contract.
Now, on to Éoin Clarke. He's a whole different story. He lives in Northern Ireland, so he's a member of a party he can't vote for as they don't contest elections there! It seems even some members of the Labours see him as a fruitloop.
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
On the local news they had local reporters in Cornwall saying they were locked in a room and not allowed to take any pictures. The Tory high command have to be hiding something.
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
No different to When Blair was in charge and Alistair Campbell would control everything.
I didn't realise that Blair was standing in this election.
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
No different to When Blair was in charge and Alistair Campbell would control everything.
Its very different .. But the labour party don't toss the word democracy about like the tories do. You would think they invented the word. Plus you get the likes of adam boulton banging the tory drum even though they are told they must be party neutral when reporting on tv.
There has just been a tv reporter on lbc who said that yesterday when theresa may was doing an interview, they were heralded in a room weren't allowed to film her, was told that they could only ask two questions each and they wanted to know what they were, that's tory democracy for you.
On the local news they had local reporters in Cornwall saying they were locked in a room and not allowed to take any pictures. The Tory high command have to be hiding something.
Yes one of those reporters just spoke on lbc about it.
It is amazing how the Prime Minister's general ineptness in this campaign (e.g. she thinks it is OK NHS workers survive on food banks, humiliation in Scotland, refusing to let people take her photo etc.) is barely being reported by the media.
Whilst Diane Abbott makes a fairly minor gaffe regarding paying for a policy and by teatime every news outlet, including the BBC, is trying to see who can have the biggest and most colourful 'DIANE ABBOTT IS A FAT IDIOT LET'S LAUGH AT HER' graphic at the top of their front page.
Apart from the fact it wasn't "a fairly minor gaffe" was it? It was a genuine display of incompetence from one of the major players who was being asked to outline a pledge.
This is what frustrates me with the left. If something doesn't go in their favour, which lets be frank, that Abbott interview couldn't have gone any worse thanks to her inability - then there is always the knee jerk reaction from the left to blame the "right wing/bias" media.
One of Labour's leaders has shown herself up massively to the nation ahead of a general election, that's why it's a headline. Nothing to do with some sort of 'bias' that you're trying to suggest.
I voted Tory at the last election so I'm hardly 'the left'. But even I can see the blatant media bias in this country.
In the grand scheme of things, it is a minor gaffe, at least compared to the Prime Minister making a complete embarrassment of herself and our country in front of 27 other leaders. Yet that barely got a tenth of the coverage Diane is getting for fluffing an interview.
Tories never seem to have to give details of their policies, how they are going to be costed and what impact they will have, yet other parties are expected to have fully costed policies, fully fleshed out, what timeframes they are going to be executed in and so on. All the Tories are doing is banging on about 'strong and stable'.
And all Labour bang on about is the Tories. That's all I ever hear from the current hard left involved with Labour - "Tories this, scum that".
So much so that today when Abbott was asked to discuss a policy she couldn't do it without completely falling on her arse.
She didn't merely fluff up the interview. She demonstrated that she is fundamentally incompetent at this sort of thing. Had that been a Conservative party member then it would have been absolutely lambasted by Labour probably x10 more than you're suggesting the media are pushing it.
I agree with your opinion on Abbot, she's dreadful, although apparently she did 6 other interviews on the same subject without getting her figures around her neck. Both her and Corbyn are electoral liabilities as most Labour MP's acknowledge. They are the politcal equivalent of Yohann Thuram-Ulien facing a Shearer penalty.
But I don't agree that Labour or the Lib Dems for that matter have only attacked the Conservatives. Both have also made a number of policy/manifesto announcements since the start.
As far as I can see the Tories have been very vague just saying, "wait for the manifesto"* and proceeded to focus on trashing Corbyn personally and trotting out meaningless slogans.
*there might have been something the other day about capping utility bills tbf. A Labour policy they attacked as medling in the free market in the last election.
Funny, can't see any of May's gaffes mentioned here on the BBC, Abbott is still on the front page of the politics section though. Bloody left-wing media...
Funny, can't see any of May's gaffes mentioned here on the BBC, Abbott is still on the front page of the politics section though. Bloody left-wing media...
It's interesting how different people can see things differently from others. For around a week the BBC has been reporting on nothing much other than the Labours and the LibDems. Initially I thought that this displayed an inherent left-wing bias. However, I've now decided it's just down to the fact that they've presently got bugger all on policies from the Tories and therefore have little to report on so are continuing to go on with the drip-feed of information from the other parties.
I'm guessing that saying bugger all now is a deliberate gambit by May's team and her advisers. I'm sure they will know that our collective attention span is the square root of bugger all and it's pointless launching policies too early as in a few weeks time no one will remember what Corbyn, Farron, et alia have said.
Anyway, local elections coming up tomorrow - that may push the policy vs personalities discussion into ludicrous mode.
May, Corbyn, Farron & Nuttall. None of them fill me with much confidence, but only one is standing on the 'strong & stable' ticket. I would presume that appearing competent is a big part of this sell.
Two Tory policies so far:-
1. A cap on utility bills which they decried as communist at the last election.
2. To have a strong leader to get the best deal for Brexit. I await their fully costed out strategy for this and note that Theresa May seems not to be trusted to talk to voters by her own party.
Funny, can't see any of May's gaffes mentioned here on the BBC, Abbott is still on the front page of the politics section though. Bloody left-wing media...
Regardless of May or the BBC, all Abbott had to do was know what the costs of employing 10000 more police would be and where it was gonna come from (Clamp down on corporation tax dodgers no doubt). On a day when she was having "6 interviews" leading up to a general erection, I'd have though the perspective Home Secretary would have these fundamental figures ready to throw out at the drop of a hat, I don't even think she forgot, she didn't seem to knew them in the first place.
Virtually nil percent of the population will consider the ins and outs of the politics as those of us who write on this thread. Indeed it amuses me that Brexit voters take umbrage when accused of not knowing the issues when they voted, the truth is few people in the voting population engage with the issues but are influenced by the broad brush slogans like 'strong and stable's, or events like the Prescott punch. Sadly it is for this reason the Tories will win because people find thinking about the politics pretty boring, and they have the slogans for their media to promote. For me I share the attitude of Muttley in hoping that May does not get a coronation and there are enough votes elsewhere to make the Tories stop and think. Deep down I want to stop and shake every Tory voter and scream at them 'do you know what you're doing?', not that they should vote Labour, but they should realise that essentially they vote for the same corrupt, nepotistic, self serving ruling class generation after generation. Plebgate for me represented a reveal of the mindset of those who hope to be and indeed are the ruling class, the irony is that Thatcher, Major and May were and are essentially seen as necessary and useful plebs by those who remain in control. They are in charge not for the good of the people, but for the good of themselves first and foremost. I wrote before can anybody at all indicate what Tory ideology actually is?
Funny, can't see any of May's gaffes mentioned here on the BBC, Abbott is still on the front page of the politics section though. Bloody left-wing media...
Regardless of May or the BBC, all Abbott had to do was know what the costs of employing 10000 more police would be and where it was gonna come from (Clamp down on corporation tax dodgers no doubt). On a day when she was having "6 interviews" leading up to a general erection, I'd have though the perspective Home Secretary would have these fundamental figures ready to throw out at the drop of a hat, I don't even think she forgot, she didn't seem to knew them in the first place.
Strikes me as lazy
Didn't she get them right in the other 5 though?
What about May failing to prepare for her Brexit meeting with the EU leaders that left them utterly flabbergasted as to how little she knew of the coming procress? Is that not just laziness but dangerous incompetence?
Funny, can't see any of May's gaffes mentioned here on the BBC, Abbott is still on the front page of the politics section though. Bloody left-wing media...
Regardless of May or the BBC, all Abbott had to do was know what the costs of employing 10000 more police would be and where it was gonna come from (Clamp down on corporation tax dodgers no doubt). On a day when she was having "6 interviews" leading up to a general erection, I'd have though the perspective Home Secretary would have these fundamental figures ready to throw out at the drop of a hat, I don't even think she forgot, she didn't seem to knew them in the first place.
Strikes me as lazy
Didn't she get them right in the other 5 though?
What about May failing to prepare for her Brexit meeting with the EU leaders that left them utterly flabbergasted as to how little she knew of the coming procress? Is that not just laziness but dangerous incompetence?
Don't worry about May's apparent abject incompetence - David Davis said on Radio 4 this morning that everything will be ok.
Thing is, you will see gaffes differently (or not at all) by either party depending on which side of the political spectrum you are on. If both sides reckon the BBC is biased, it's probably doing ok.
Arguably this is the most important election in my lifetime and yet the choice in a national sense is between people who are pretty second rate. In terms of party leaders the only ones with any gravitas are the Greens and the bloody Nationalists. In my eyes the Nationalists are an ideology I disagree with, and I have doubts about the experience of the Greens although in terms of their ideology they appeal, the first past the post system is a frustration here. However where are the people of any stature these days?
Don't get me wrong, Abbott is a clown who deserves to be ridiculed every day that she holds elected office, but the fact is Abbott is unlikely to hold any meaningful power in the near future, whereas May is likely to be the one deciding the fate of the entire country. I know who I'd rather the media apply even the smallest bit of scrutiny to.
Arguably this is the most important election in my lifetime and yet the choice in a national sense is between people who are pretty second rate. In terms of party leaders the only ones with any gravitas are the Greens and the bloody Nationalists. In my eyes the Nationalists are an ideology I disagree with, and I have doubts about the experience of the Greens although in terms of their ideology they appeal, the first past the post system is a frustration here. However where are the people of any stature these days?
I couldn't agree more Seth. In my post about how little confidence I have in May et al, I was going to add that Sturgeon is by far the most impressive and that Lucas exudes competence and grown up politics.
I would also add that as well as FPP I would blame party politics although accept that that is hugely influenced by FPP.
Comments
We have the weird situation where Corbyn as prime minister would not be as damaging as May. He can't be, because the fool seems happy to walk away from a single market which has brought prosperity to this country. The damage can't be calculated. The best we can hope for is that May gets in with the same majority or a smaller one. This will discredit her and force her to change direction or resign.
Why are we so desperate to sprint off the cliff?
I was even a Lib Dem party member in the earlier years of his stewardship.
My posts on investments and wine appear in the threads dedicated to that subject. If they don't interest you, don't read the effing threads.
The Conservatives have then picked that point and used it to damn the Labour government. What would they have done differently? What was happening was the government propping up the banks and what was happening afterwards was that Darling was stimulating the economy and creating growth. We were then getting all this rubbish about not spending what you don't have, but it doesn't work like that. It is always about the difference between what you are spending and what your revenues are. If the economy is growing, you have greater revenues.
Tory chancellors sort of get this, HS2 is an example, but fiscal easing - printing money for the banks to sit on doesn't fix the problem. You have to make every pound work - put it into a worker's pocket, who will put it into another worker's pocket and make it earn you money through tax revenues over and over rather than it sit in a vault!
Anyway, setting that aside for a moment, here's some questions. Okay, they are awkward but relevant just the same.
One, did this individual think so very little about his wife that he decided it was sensible to raise a family before having adequate life insurance in place for both parents? Why would anyone do that? If he did have adequate life insurance in place for both partners, why would his family now need help from the State? Is it the State's role to provide for everyone no matter what? Should there be any limits at all on state spending on benefits? Do we think that people bear no personal responsibility for their own decisions at all?
Whatever way you are going to vote, if you've got a family, get some adequate insurance ffs, it'll probably be cheaper than your mobile contract.
Now, on to Éoin Clarke. He's a whole different story. He lives in Northern Ireland, so he's a member of a party he can't vote for as they don't contest elections there! It seems even some members of the Labours see him as a fruitloop.
https://buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/labour-goes-through-the-memehole?utm_term=.uyoqkBlmg#.kdOJBX0dv
https://order-order.com/2015/06/02/the-truth-about-dr-eoin-clarke/
https://order-order.com/people/eoin-clarke/
But I don't agree that Labour or the Lib Dems for that matter have only attacked the Conservatives. Both have also made a number of policy/manifesto announcements since the start.
As far as I can see the Tories have been very vague just saying, "wait for the manifesto"* and proceeded to focus on trashing Corbyn personally and trotting out meaningless slogans.
*there might have been something the other day about capping utility bills tbf. A Labour policy they attacked as medling in the free market in the last election.
I'm guessing that saying bugger all now is a deliberate gambit by May's team and her advisers. I'm sure they will know that our collective attention span is the square root of bugger all and it's pointless launching policies too early as in a few weeks time no one will remember what Corbyn, Farron, et alia have said.
Anyway, local elections coming up tomorrow - that may push the policy vs personalities discussion into ludicrous mode.
Two Tory policies so far:-
1. A cap on utility bills which they decried as communist at the last election.
2. To have a strong leader to get the best deal for Brexit. I await their fully costed out strategy for this and note that Theresa May seems not to be trusted to talk to voters by her own party.
Strikes me as lazy
Sadly it is for this reason the Tories will win because people find thinking about the politics pretty boring, and they have the slogans for their media to promote.
For me I share the attitude of Muttley in hoping that May does not get a coronation and there are enough votes elsewhere to make the Tories stop and think.
Deep down I want to stop and shake every Tory voter and scream at them 'do you know what you're doing?', not that they should vote Labour, but they should realise that essentially they vote for the same corrupt, nepotistic, self serving ruling class generation after generation.
Plebgate for me represented a reveal of the mindset of those who hope to be and indeed are the ruling class, the irony is that Thatcher, Major and May were and are essentially seen as necessary and useful plebs by those who remain in control. They are in charge not for the good of the people, but for the good of themselves first and foremost.
I wrote before can anybody at all indicate what Tory ideology actually is?
What about May failing to prepare for her Brexit meeting with the EU leaders that left them utterly flabbergasted as to how little she knew of the coming procress? Is that not just laziness but dangerous incompetence?
In terms of party leaders the only ones with any gravitas are the Greens and the bloody Nationalists. In my eyes the Nationalists are an ideology I disagree with, and I have doubts about the experience of the Greens although in terms of their ideology they appeal, the first past the post system is a frustration here.
However where are the people of any stature these days?
I would also add that as well as FPP I would blame party politics although accept that that is hugely influenced by FPP.