"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
It's a manifesto of investment in "ordinary working people", rather than more failed austerity that only continues to increase national debt while corporation tax continues to be cut under the Tories.
Vote Labour. I'm *hoping* they fulfil all those pledges but as long as they do a decent job of most, it'll be a damn sight better than the bloody difficult woman.
Just seems like a standard classic left wing Labour manifesto to me. Nothing i wouldn't expect so the 'leak' isn't exactly a groundbreaking surprise.
Hammer the top 5pc of earners who already pay very high levels of tax compared to equivalents around Europe, which is expected to fill the hole created by the massive increases in public sector spending.
Don't blame them for it - that's what they are clearly fighting for but seems the classic example of take other people's money till it runs out and then just spend spend spend. They won't get my vote. Will be interesting to see how many votes of the 'ordinary voting man' they do get.
"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
What's more likely? That the Tories comprehensively analysed each of the leaked policies so quickly after the leak and came to the conclusions they reached in their statement...
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
The sad reality is that about 5% of the electorate will actually read party manifestos. Instead they will consume the tabloids and politicians sound bites.
Like this you mean?
The Telegraph have gone with the whole "Monster Corbyn invents time machine!" thing too.
"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
What's more likely? That the Tories comprehensively analysed each of the leaked policies so quickly after the leak and came to the conclusions they reached in their statement...
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
But by answering this way, the same suggestion could be made about your comments. I'm not saying that myself.
As for the manifesto,
I like:
*More council houses *More renewable energy *More money for NHS *More money for social care *Pay ratio for public contracts, although not sure about the practicalities. *Keep hunting ban *End badger culls
Not that things are working well but not convinced that money spent on renationalising rail, post office and power would be a good use of funds. It's not as though they worked that well in government hands before either.
I don't like:
*Voting for under 18s *Ending cuts to universal credit *The absurd declaration that we won't leave the EU if we don't get a deal *Spending huge amounts of money on renationalising rather than capital investment
Well we have to see how much of the draft manifesto ends up in the final document but my reaction was wow. The major aspects I can't disagree on. Privatising the railways - As an ex-commuter - the amount of money in terms of hours etc... the poor service has cost me is incredible and the value is poor. It has to be understood that rail is an important wealth creator when it works efficiently. As it does in other countries There is a way of doing this that won't be too expensive.
Sorting out the energy companies - well overdue. Privatisng the Post Office is a bad idea - costs will inevitably go up! Reversing that is great.
Social care. People have seen posts of mine regarding the unfairness of residential care. We know care in general is not being addressed despite the government knowing it is a problem. ITV breakfast TV are highlighting the fact today that sick, elderly people are subsidising the cost of care home residents. Not tax payers, but sick people, too ill to fight for their rights and complain about the injustice. Some of you may be happy with a sick person with savings in a home paying 40% more than council funded residents getting the same care, but for me it shames us all. Tackling this is well overdue.
Investment in defence that is actually more than the Tories are planning as it excludes pensions. Although I am anti-trident so the keeping of Trident is the only thing I don't really agree with. It doesn't address the threats of the modern world and is so expensive, the money can be used better elsewhere. Norway doesn't need Trident, Sweden doesn't need Trident, Italy doesn't need Trident, so why do we. At least the promise of a proper debate on it is promised.
I think it could be a massive advantage getting these policies out there early, whether the leak was crafty or done to cause damage. But what is essential is that Labour tries to persuade the electorate that it can fund these policies without bankrupting us or making us worse off. It needs to draw that line and guarantee to people that they will not be worse off. Getting that promise/message out is an important next step.
Council House building, scrapping tuition fees. These are good policies and I believe those earning over £80k a year are the ones that will pay more. That is the minority - and Labour really has to be clear about this. The big earners control the press and try to manipulate the people with fake truths and fear, but it is to their ends, not hard working people. I strive for a fairer society and I am happy to pay my share. I don't like a poor old dear with dementia being skinned in my name! But the message on who will pay and who won't has to break through the lies. I'm sure there are elderly couples paying more for their energy, tv etc... because they are not computer literate and understand dynamic pricing ( I call it fleecing).
I do accept we have left Europe, but as a businessman who deals with Europe - many do -more than people might think - I dearly need a soft Brexit. When we tried to source some items with China, with Brexit in mind, we got unfairly hammered with duties from an inflexible inland revenue that ensured we lost money! The Conservatives can't deliver a Norway like deal, but Labour and the Lib Dems can. I was more inclined to the more overtly pro Europe Lib Dems, but I am wavering big time.
One of the most exciting manifestos I have seen - but if there are changes to it on the final one it will be a massive own goal. So I will be waiting and seeing too.
And fox hunting coming back is a big issue for me too. It shows who the Conservative party are for!
I'm not averse to a laugh but I think the David Furnish one was a bit insulting - not to Tim Farron - but the terminolgy was offensive and disrespectful to gay people.
If anybody buys and reads the Daily Mail it is one of the biggest condemnations of our education system ever. 'Drags.' What? Kicking and screaming to a world where social care is taken seriously, and housing, and education?
"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
What's more likely? That the Tories comprehensively analysed each of the leaked policies so quickly after the leak and came to the conclusions they reached in their statement...
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
But by answering this way, the same suggestion could be made about your comments.
How? I was suggesting it is utterly absurd that the Tories could have comprehensively analysed the leaked manifesto so shortly after it was leaked to come up with their ridiculous hyperbole that what Corbyn represents is effectively as bad as complete societal collapse. It's something only a bunch of cunts would do and something only an idiot would treat with any degree of credibility.
"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
What's more likely? That the Tories comprehensively analysed each of the leaked policies so quickly after the leak and came to the conclusions they reached in their statement...
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
But by answering this way, the same suggestion could be made about your comments.
How? I was suggesting it is utterly absurd that the Tories could have comprehensively analysed the leaked manifesto so shortly after it was leaked to come up with their ridiculous hyperbole that what Corbyn represents is effectively as bad as complete societal collapse. It's something only a bunch of cunts would do and something only an idiot would treat with any degree of credibility.
I haven't been anywhere like as active on this years election thread as last, so I have probably missed this, but is there a driver from your swing from Conservative to Labour this time round (you were pro Tory last time, werent you?).
I havent seen such a swing from right to left since the halycon days of overhit Danny Green corners.
I am sure that differ from many on here with my views on student fees.
Firstly, I don't agree that university should be for so many of the population. Currently about 50 percent?
This devalues degrees and lots of jobs are either specified as requiring a degree when they never would have previously, or they are often ignored during recruitment.
I think that we should be aiming for around 25 percent of students go on to university with cutting back on pointless degrees and focus on those that benefit the country more.
As for fees, why should higher education be free but training for trades have to be paid for by the students or employers?
The country should be looking at ways to specifically work toward more doctors, nurses and tradesmen etc and concentrate resources where needed.
Perhaps if fees are to be abolished then it should only be for courses vital to the U.K. and others paid for?
If course the problem then is that it relies on someone making the decision on which courses.
"A Conservative spokesman said: "This is a total shambles. Jeremy Corbyn's plans to unleash chaos on Britain have been revealed. "The commitments in this dossier will rack up tens of billions of extra borrowing for our families and will put Brexit negotiations at risk. Jobs will be lost, families will be hit and our economic security damaged for a generation if Jeremy Corbyn and the coalition of chaos are ever let anywhere near the keys to Downing Street." "
I can't believe I actually once voted for these cunts.
So what is wrong about this statement and what do you like about the leaked manifesto?
What's more likely? That the Tories comprehensively analysed each of the leaked policies so quickly after the leak and came to the conclusions they reached in their statement...
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
But by answering this way, the same suggestion could be made about your comments.
How? I was suggesting it is utterly absurd that the Tories could have comprehensively analysed the leaked manifesto so shortly after it was leaked to come up with their ridiculous hyperbole that what Corbyn represents is effectively as bad as complete societal collapse. It's something only a bunch of cunts would do and something only an idiot would treat with any degree of credibility.
I haven't been anywhere like as active on this years election thread as last, so I have probably missed this, but is there a driver from your swing from Conservative to Labour this time round (you were pro Tory last time, werent you?).
I havent seen such a swing from right to left since the halycon days of overhit Danny Green corners.
If anybody buys and reads the Daily Mail it is one of the biggest condemnations of our education system ever. 'Drags.' What? Kicking and screaming to a world where social care is taken seriously, and housing, and education?
The irony being of course that on another day they'll run stories about how terrible it is our post offices are closing, how awful and expensive our rail travel, what a rip off rising energy bills are. Let alone harking back to the halcyon 70's days before we joined the evil EU...
I am sure that differ from many on here with my views on student fees.
Firstly, I don't agree that university should be for so many of the population. Currently about 50 percent?
This devalues degrees and lots of jobs are either specified as requiring a degree when they never would have previously, or they are often ignored during recruitment.
I think that we should be aiming for around 25 percent of students go on to university with cutting back on pointless degrees and focus on those that benefit the country more.
As for fees, why should higher education be free but training for trades have to be paid for by the students or employers?
The country should be looking at ways to specifically work toward more doctors, nurses and tradesmen etc and concentrate resources where needed.
Perhaps if fees are to be abolished then it should only be for courses vital to the U.K. and others paid for?
If course the problem then is that it relies on someone making the decision on which courses.
You raise an interesting question regarding education. You equate study at University with training for trades. There seems to be an assumption that there should be a direct or utilitarian link between education and the world of work, or that education should have work as it's purpose. There are many who would say that the purpose of education is for the growth and development of the person for its own sake, and the enrichment of society generally is a secondary by product.
University wasn't free when we had the boom in numbers and increase in 'joke' courses. It was when the universities could charge, they let everyone in, that's what devalued degrees.
Anyway, now the precedent has been set for breaking manifesto pledges (guess who?), they're not worth the email they're leaked on.
I am sure that differ from many on here with my views on student fees.
Firstly, I don't agree that university should be for so many of the population. Currently about 50 percent?
This devalues degrees and lots of jobs are either specified as requiring a degree when they never would have previously, or they are often ignored during recruitment.
I think that we should be aiming for around 25 percent of students go on to university with cutting back on pointless degrees and focus on those that benefit the country more.
As for fees, why should higher education be free but training for trades have to be paid for by the students or employers?
The country should be looking at ways to specifically work toward more doctors, nurses and tradesmen etc and concentrate resources where needed.
Perhaps if fees are to be abolished then it should only be for courses vital to the U.K. and others paid for?
If course the problem then is that it relies on someone making the decision on which courses.
You raise an interesting question regarding education. You equate study at University with training for trades. There seems to be an assumption that there should be a direct or utilitarian link between education and the world of work, or that education should have work as it's purpose. There are many who would say that the purpose of education is for the growth and development of the person for its own sake, and the enrichment of society generally is a secondary by product.
No argument from me on that point Seth. I am talking higher education though, the previous 11 or 13 years should manage that part. If it doesn't then it needs sorting.
A lot of Union influence in the Labour manifesto but, if the policies have been costed correctly and Dianne Abbott is kept away from talking to the media, the manifesto makes Jeremy Corbyn electable.
There won't be many people on all sides of the political fence that wouldn't want more money spent on the NHS
The reason I haven't and probably never will vote labour is that they always try to turn it into some form of class war.
Admittedly I am in the 5% that they seem to hate and want to tax the hell out of but really, if you are on £80k a year with a housewife, 2/3 kids, mortgage, and live in the South East are you really 'rich'? I know I'm not.
I'm all for paying my way and every penny I earn is taxed as it should be but I can honestly see Labour taxing 50-60% of my salary if they get in and admittedly that may be a selfish view but I work hard to look after my family first and the rest of the country second.
If only we could decide where our taxes go because mine would go on NHS, education, defence rather than trade unions and worrying about bedroom tax
A lot of Union influence in the Labour manifesto but, if the policies have been costed correctly and Dianne Abbott is kept away from talking to the media, the manifesto makes Jeremy Corbyn electable.
Most of the pledges (well the ones I've heard) are not much more than apple pie and motherhood statements for any who oppose the power of the rich elite. Don't get me wrong - I agree with some, especially around health and education, but although they say it will all be fully costed I can't believe it will be anything other than a smoke and mirrors job. This country is not that far left - and never has been.
The manifesto makes Jeremy Corbyn electable? I don't think so. Jeremy Corbyn makes Jeremy Corbyn unelectable.
There won't be many people on all sides of the political fence that wouldn't want more money spent on the NHS
The reason I haven't and probably never will vote labour is that they always try to turn it into some form of class war.
Admittedly I am in the 5% that they seem to hate and want to tax the hell out of but really, if you are on £80k a year with a housewife, 2/3 kids, mortgage, and live in the South East are you really 'rich'? I know I'm not.
I'm all for paying my way and every penny I earn is taxed as it should be but I can honestly see Labour taxing 50-60% of my salary if they get in and admittedly that may be a selfish view but I work hard to look after my family first and the rest of the country second.
If only we could decide where our taxes go because mine would go on NHS, education, defence rather than trade unions and worrying about bedroom tax
They've stated in the past that they would have increased income tax during the start of the recession but not know. Their aim is to get large corporations to pay their fare share, whether or not that's possible or benefits the economy is up for debate, personally I'm for that rather than going strong on the poor and weak and austerity. Perhaps if loop holes on the rich were closed we could afford to reduce the higher 50% rate on over £100k earners?
So Labour come up with the type of election manifesto that could appeal to the wider electorate. I doubt many who bother to read it would find too much to hate. The problem for Corbyn is that people won't read it. The only opinion they will have will be guided by what The Daily Mail print and what May says.
Expect the right wing press to go into overdrive now. I just pray Corbyn isn't partial to a bacon sarnie.
Comments
Hammer the top 5pc of earners who already pay very high levels of tax compared to equivalents around Europe, which is expected to fill the hole created by the massive increases in public sector spending.
Don't blame them for it - that's what they are clearly fighting for but seems the classic example of take other people's money till it runs out and then just spend spend spend. They won't get my vote. Will be interesting to see how many votes of the 'ordinary voting man' they do get.
Or they would have trotted out this shit mantra regardless of what was in the manifesto?
The Telegraph have gone with the whole "Monster Corbyn invents time machine!" thing too.
As for the manifesto,
I like:
*More council houses
*More renewable energy
*More money for NHS
*More money for social care
*Pay ratio for public contracts, although not sure about the practicalities.
*Keep hunting ban
*End badger culls
Not that things are working well but not convinced that money spent on renationalising rail, post office and power would be a good use of funds. It's not as though they worked that well in government hands before either.
I don't like:
*Voting for under 18s
*Ending cuts to universal credit
*The absurd declaration that we won't leave the EU if we don't get a deal
*Spending huge amounts of money on renationalising rather than capital investment
Sorting out the energy companies - well overdue. Privatisng the Post Office is a bad idea - costs will inevitably go up! Reversing that is great.
Social care. People have seen posts of mine regarding the unfairness of residential care. We know care in general is not being addressed despite the government knowing it is a problem. ITV breakfast TV are highlighting the fact today that sick, elderly people are subsidising the cost of care home residents. Not tax payers, but sick people, too ill to fight for their rights and complain about the injustice. Some of you may be happy with a sick person with savings in a home paying 40% more than council funded residents getting the same care, but for me it shames us all. Tackling this is well overdue.
Investment in defence that is actually more than the Tories are planning as it excludes pensions. Although I am anti-trident so the keeping of Trident is the only thing I don't really agree with. It doesn't address the threats of the modern world and is so expensive, the money can be used better elsewhere. Norway doesn't need Trident, Sweden doesn't need Trident, Italy doesn't need Trident, so why do we. At least the promise of a proper debate on it is promised.
I think it could be a massive advantage getting these policies out there early, whether the leak was crafty or done to cause damage. But what is essential is that Labour tries to persuade the electorate that it can fund these policies without bankrupting us or making us worse off. It needs to draw that line and guarantee to people that they will not be worse off. Getting that promise/message out is an important next step.
Council House building, scrapping tuition fees. These are good policies and I believe those earning over £80k a year are the ones that will pay more. That is the minority - and Labour really has to be clear about this. The big earners control the press and try to manipulate the people with fake truths and fear, but it is to their ends, not hard working people. I strive for a fairer society and I am happy to pay my share. I don't like a poor old dear with dementia being skinned in my name! But the message on who will pay and who won't has to break through the lies. I'm sure there are elderly couples paying more for their energy, tv etc... because they are not computer literate and understand dynamic pricing ( I call it fleecing).
I do accept we have left Europe, but as a businessman who deals with Europe - many do -more than people might think - I dearly need a soft Brexit. When we tried to source some items with China, with Brexit in mind, we got unfairly hammered with duties from an inflexible inland revenue that ensured we lost money! The Conservatives can't deliver a Norway like deal, but Labour and the Lib Dems can. I was more inclined to the more overtly pro Europe Lib Dems, but I am wavering big time.
One of the most exciting manifestos I have seen - but if there are changes to it on the final one it will be a massive own goal. So I will be waiting and seeing too.
And fox hunting coming back is a big issue for me too. It shows who the Conservative party are for!
There is a Corbyn/Stormzy one by the same guy doing the rounds on Facebook as well which I'll add when it goes up on YouTube.
'Drags.' What? Kicking and screaming to a world where social care is taken seriously, and housing, and education?
I havent seen such a swing from right to left since the halycon days of overhit Danny Green corners.
Firstly, I don't agree that university should be for so many of the population. Currently about 50 percent?
This devalues degrees and lots of jobs are either specified as requiring a degree when they never would have previously, or they are often ignored during recruitment.
I think that we should be aiming for around 25 percent of students go on to university with cutting back on pointless degrees and focus on those that benefit the country more.
As for fees, why should higher education be free but training for trades have to be paid for by the students or employers?
The country should be looking at ways to specifically work toward more doctors, nurses and tradesmen etc and concentrate resources where needed.
Perhaps if fees are to be abolished then it should only be for courses vital to the U.K. and others paid for?
If course the problem then is that it relies on someone making the decision on which courses.
There are many who would say that the purpose of education is for the growth and development of the person for its own sake, and the enrichment of society generally is a secondary by product.
Anyway, now the precedent has been set for breaking manifesto pledges (guess who?), they're not worth the email they're leaked on.
There won't be many people on all sides of the political fence that wouldn't want more money spent on the NHS
The reason I haven't and probably never will vote labour is that they always try to turn it into some form of class war.
Admittedly I am in the 5% that they seem to hate and want to tax the hell out of but really, if you are on £80k a year with a housewife, 2/3 kids, mortgage, and live in the South East are you really 'rich'? I know I'm not.
I'm all for paying my way and every penny I earn is taxed as it should be but I can honestly see Labour taxing 50-60% of my salary if they get in and admittedly that may be a selfish view but I work hard to look after my family first and the rest of the country second.
If only we could decide where our taxes go because mine would go on NHS, education, defence rather than trade unions and worrying about bedroom tax
The manifesto makes Jeremy Corbyn electable? I don't think so. Jeremy Corbyn makes Jeremy Corbyn unelectable.
The problem for Corbyn is that people won't read it. The only opinion they will have will be guided by what The Daily Mail print and what May says.
Expect the right wing press to go into overdrive now. I just pray Corbyn isn't partial to a bacon sarnie.
"Ordinary people" are an afterthought just like they are to the tories.
How does spending an extra £8bn on social care over the next 5 years give the unions more power?
How does building at least 100,000 new homes a year give the unions more power?
How does reducing the voting age to 16 give the unions more power?
How does banning fracking give the unions more power?