Theresa May's flagship policy of giving workers a statutory right to a year's unpaid leave to care for a relative is being described as a bold attempt to woo Labour voters and a worker's rights revolution.
...how many Labour voters can afford to a take a year's unpaid leave?
And does anyone see this shameless deception for what it is? The Tories have spent 7 years slashing provision for those in need of care and attacking the third sector in general and this is apparently meant to solve the care crisis? Is anyone seriously thick enough to vote for this shit?
Disagree in parts: Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house... All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
Disagree in parts: Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house... All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
Theresa May's flagship policy of giving workers a statutory right to a year's unpaid leave to care for a relative is being described as a bold attempt to woo Labour voters and a worker's rights revolution.
...how many Labour voters can afford to a take a year's unpaid leave?
And does anyone see this shameless deception for what it is? The Tories have spent 7 years slashing provision for those in need of care and attacking the third sector in general and this is apparently meant to solve the care crisis? Is anyone seriously thick enough to vote for this shit?
Are people actually trying to say that the Tories are for poor people and keeping a straight face?
I think the idea is that we are supposed to think it's quite normal to be earning £80k - £100k a year plus and therefore be grateful they contribute as much as they do in tax. It's not of course, far from it.
Meanwhile back in the world where most of us don't earn anything like that sort of salary...
Disagree in parts: Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house... All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
So in your own words you know a lot of benefit cheats.
Unfortunately those earning £80k to £120k aren't wealthy enough to employ Mossack Fonseca to avoid paying any tax. Was it 90,000 Brits as customers incuding the sitting PM benefiting? And this is just one firm in Panama. Yet the agenda is benefit cheats.
Theresa May's flagship policy of giving workers a statutory right to a year's unpaid leave to care for a relative is being described as a bold attempt to woo Labour voters and a worker's rights revolution.
...how many Labour voters can afford to a take a year's unpaid leave?
And does anyone see this shameless deception for what it is? The Tories have spent 7 years slashing provision for those in need of care and attacking the third sector in general and this is apparently meant to solve the care crisis? Is anyone seriously thick enough to vote for this shit?
Working in a sector that has seen years and years of attacks on their pay & conditions under them I find the current marketing of the Tories as being the party to trust on protecting workers rights as way beyond normal political hypocrisy.
Are people actually trying to say that the Tories are for poor people and keeping a straight face?
I think the idea is that we are supposed to think it's quite normal to be earning £80k - £100k a year plus and therefore be grateful they contribute as much as they do in tax. It's not of course, far from it.
Meanwhile back in the world where most of us don't earn anything like that sort of salary...
Normal? So is someone earning 80-100k abnormal or just in the country as a whole not in the majority? Nobody is suggesting 80k plus is the majority we all know its the minority (5%?) and is very city of London centric.
As for are the tories for the poor people, from a working perspective I believe they are in some respects, if you go back to my post earlier today I showed how someone on the smallest salary has seen their income tax come down form 10% of earnings to almost nothing. That wasn't Labour, but the Conservatives. At the same time the conservatives have increased tax on those at the upper end and taken away other things.
On the flip side Labour didn't increase the personal allowance much and also removed the 10p band........
As someone after me said, this though is just direct tax and not indirect which could switch it the other way but i'm struggling to find proper information on that.
I've never asked anyone 'to be grateful' for the tax I pay, but on the flip side Corbyn making me out to be some kind of taker from the poor is woefully wrong whether thats through compulsory tax or from what I chose to do voluntarily with my money.
On the link above, my wife works in the public sector, has had either no rise and maybe a couple of times 1%. Her take home pay has increased these past years as she now pays next to no tax thanks to the 90% increase in the personal allowance.
FWIW the last two general elections I voted 'locally' i.e. for the MP I thought would do the best job in my area, he's Labour. With JC at the helm it saddens me to say I don't think I can vote that way again. I just don't believe they'll be able to deliver anywhere near what they are promising. It'll be a mess for years.....
Disagree in parts: Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house... All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
I believe @LuckyReds raised a similar point a few pages back. It really is the crux of the matter and I believe the reason a lot of the public have a distrust around the benefit system. The sad thing is if you look at the case of the woman with learning difficulties who confronted May earlier, someone who has genuinely been fucked over, will lose out, versus those that manipulate the system.
Sadly I believe the Tories answer is to gradually destroy system.
It's a good example of how piss poor a job we make of the welfare state. The other thing that amazes me is that in the same way you have benefit cheats playing the system and conning the public purse, you have big business and wealthy individuals playing the system at the other end. I never hear anything about reforming that 'system'
Are people actually trying to say that the Tories are for poor people and keeping a straight face?
I think the idea is that we are supposed to think it's quite normal to be earning £80k - £100k a year plus and therefore be grateful they contribute as much as they do in tax. It's not of course, far from it.
Meanwhile back in the world where most of us don't earn anything like that sort of salary...
Normal? So is someone earning 80-100k abnormal or just in the country as a whole not in the majority? Nobody is suggesting 80k plus is the majority we all know its the minority (5%?) and is very city of London centric.
As for are the tories for the poor people, from a working perspective I believe they are in some respects, if you go back to my post earlier today I showed how someone on the smallest salary has seen their income tax come down form 10% of earnings to almost nothing. That wasn't Labour, but the Conservatives. At the same time the conservatives have increased tax on those at the upper end and taken away other things.
On the flip side Labour didn't increase the personal allowance much and also removed the 10p band........
As someone after me said, this though is just direct tax and not indirect which could switch it the other way but i'm struggling to find proper information on that.
I've never asked anyone 'to be grateful' for the tax I pay, but on the flip side Corbyn making me out to be some kind of taker from the poor is woefully wrong whether thats through compulsory tax or from what I chose to do voluntarily with my money.
On the link above, my wife works in the public sector, has had either no rise and maybe a couple of times 1%. Her take home pay has increased these past years as she now pays next to no tax thanks to the 90% increase in the personal allowance.
FWIW the last two general elections I voted 'locally' i.e. for the MP I thought would do the best job in my area, he's Labour. With JC at the helm it saddens me to say I don't think I can vote that way again. I just don't believe they'll be able to deliver anywhere near what they are promising. It'll be a mess for years.....
I think the raising of the personal tax threshold was a Lib Dem not Tory policy and something they pushed the coalition on back in 2010.
I wouldn't and didn't use the term "abnormal" either as that has negative connotations but earning as much as you and your colleagues do is certainly not the norm is it? My wife also works in the public sector and our jointearnings will not be anywhere near £70k by the time we retire in 15-20 years time. And our average household income is above average. I'm not making you out to be taking money off the poor at all just trying to provide some context that is not London centric.
I agree totally that Corbyn is not PM material and have said so several times already on this thread but I'm interested in your comment that under Labour it will be a mess for years. Given that we've now had a Tory PM for 7 years, what is it you think has gone so well under them? The economy? The NHS? Foreign policy? The environment? Brexit!!? I honestly can't think of single thing they've done well for me personally.
Are people actually trying to say that the Tories are for poor people and keeping a straight face?
I think the idea is that we are supposed to think it's quite normal to be earning £80k - £100k a year plus and therefore be grateful they contribute as much as they do in tax. It's not of course, far from it.
Meanwhile back in the world where most of us don't earn anything like that sort of salary...
Normal? So is someone earning 80-100k abnormal or just in the country as a whole not in the majority? Nobody is suggesting 80k plus is the majority we all know its the minority (5%?) and is very city of London centric.
As for are the tories for the poor people, from a working perspective I believe they are in some respects, if you go back to my post earlier today I showed how someone on the smallest salary has seen their income tax come down form 10% of earnings to almost nothing. That wasn't Labour, but the Conservatives. At the same time the conservatives have increased tax on those at the upper end and taken away other things.
On the flip side Labour didn't increase the personal allowance much and also removed the 10p band........
As someone after me said, this though is just direct tax and not indirect which could switch it the other way but i'm struggling to find proper information on that.
I've never asked anyone 'to be grateful' for the tax I pay, but on the flip side Corbyn making me out to be some kind of taker from the poor is woefully wrong whether thats through compulsory tax or from what I chose to do voluntarily with my money.
On the link above, my wife works in the public sector, has had either no rise and maybe a couple of times 1%. Her take home pay has increased these past years as she now pays next to no tax thanks to the 90% increase in the personal allowance.
FWIW the last two general elections I voted 'locally' i.e. for the MP I thought would do the best job in my area, he's Labour. With JC at the helm it saddens me to say I don't think I can vote that way again. I just don't believe they'll be able to deliver anywhere near what they are promising. It'll be a mess for years.....
I think it was cafcfan who linked some ONS stats on tax earlier in this thread. They showed proportion of income that is tax, both indirect and direct. The conservatives had to switch some of the burden on to higher earners to maintain the tax base. Equally the removal of low paid was a flag ship LibDem policy not conservative. They just took the credit.
Shame you and most of the public have made their mind up about JC. The polls have seemed to show a bit of a bump as he has got out there, much like his leadership campaign. You can only wonder what the perception of him might have been if he could of formed an effective opposition instead of having to brief against his own PLP most of the time.
I just don't believe what JC wants to do is even remotely possible financially and will lead to financial ruin.
Here's a summary list I saw and this is without the promise of getting rid of the deficit in 5 years;
I'll put this up here as you'll be asleep by the time you get to the bottom of the list. Remember the income tax on the 5% is purely and soley for the NHS.........
Establish a National Investment Bank financed with an injection of initial public capital
Provide targeted government support to UK supply chains
Spend more on research and development
Create regional development banks to support local businesses and regional industrial strategies
Reinstate the small business corporation tax rate.
Link business rates to (lower) CPI rather than RPI measure of inflation
Exempt new investment in plants and machinery from business rates
Nationalise the electricity distribution and transmission grid
Set up at least one publicly owned energy company in every region of the UK
Guarantee to cover any shortfall in EU Structural Funding that occurs as a result of Brexit
Make significant capital investment in childcare to ensure that places exist to meet demand
Extend the 30 free hours to all two-year-olds and potentially some one-year-olds
Phase in subsidised provision on top of free hour entitlements to make sure everyone has access to affordable childcare
Reverse the Tories’ cuts to education budgets
Give transitional relief to schools set to lose out under new funding formula
Reduce class sizes for children aged five to seven to under 30, and other children “as resources allow”
End the public sector pay cap
Reintroduce national pay bargaining
Extend schools-based counselling to all schools to improve children’s mental health
Abolish loans and fees for further education courses
Restore the Education Maintenance Allowance for 16-18 year olds from lower- and middle-income backgrounds
Increase capital investment in further education
Reverse cuts to Union Learn
Abolish university tuition fees
Reintroduce maintenance grants for university students
Introduce four new national public holidays
Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage
Abolish employment tribunal fees
Double paid paternity leave and increase paternity pay
Impose higher standards on companies bidding for public contracts (which will therefore drive up prices)
Compensate women born in the 1950s for having their state pension age increased
Scrap the rise to the pension age due by the end of 2020
Scrap the sanctions regime for those on benefits
Scrap the bedroom tax
Scrap cuts in bereavement support payments
Reinstate housing benefit for under-21s
Review the cuts to Universal Credit work allowances, and the decision to limit tax credits to the first two children in a family
Increase the Employment Support Allowance by £30 a week
Uprate carers’ allowance to the level of Jobseekers’ Allowance
Invest to built a million new homes
Guarantee Help to Buy funding for first-time buyers until 2027
Make 4,000 additional homes available for people with a history of rough sleeping
Invest £250 million in a new Children’s Health Fund
Increase health visitor and school nurse numbers
Commit to over £6 billion extra in annual NHS funding
Separately, boost capital funding for the NHS
Reverse the “privatisation” of the NHS and repeal the Health & Social Care Act
Provide an extra £8 billion over the Parliament for social care
Recruit 10,000 more police officers
Recruit 1,000 more border guards
Hire 3,000 more prison officers
Re-establish Legal Aid entitlement in the family courts, and for judicial review
Fund child burial fees for bereaved parents
Buy back the Royal Mail
Set up a Post Office bank
Invest in rural broadband, housing and transport
Spend more on flood management and coastal protection
Nationalise the railways
Once nationalised, freeze fares, introduce free wi-fi across the network, guarantee “safe staffing levels”, end driver-only operation and improve accessibility for the disabled
Build “Crossrail of the North”
Complete the “Science Vale transport arc” from Oxford to Cambridge through Milton Keynes
Build Crossrail 2
Set up municipal bus companies
Establish £1 billion Cultural Capital Fund to upgrade our existing cultural and creative infrastructure
Introduce an arts pupil premium to every primary school in England worth £160 million per year
Give the Equality and Human Rights Commission the appropriate funding to carry out its functions
Move towards a minimum target of government spending on diplomacy and conflict resolution
Improve pay and living conditions for the Armed Forces
Insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free
Invest in research to fight tropical diseases and improve public health in the developing world
Would Corbyn achieve all those in 5 years? Of course not. But investment now encourages returns later. A basic economic lesson the Tories seem to have forgotten in their rush to swing the axe, which has seen demand sucked out the economy.
Would Corbyn achieve all those in 5 years? Of course not. But investment now encourages returns later. A basic economic lesson the Tories seem to have forgotten in their rush to swing the ace, which has seen demand sucked out the economy.
Agreed, but to me it seems an awful lot isn't investing for returns later it's simply spending. The electorate will expect a number of those spending promises almost immediately.
I'm really interested to see the manifesto in full tomorrow, today it seems they also will re-nationalise the water companies, I assume they'll have to buy them, Thames Water alone has a market value of £12bn.
I just don't believe what JC wants to do is even remotely possible financially and will lead to financial ruin.
Here's a summary list I saw and this is without the promise of getting rid of the deficit in 5 years;
I'll put this up here as you'll be asleep by the time you get to the bottom of the list. Remember the income tax on the 5% is purely and soley for the NHS.........
Establish a National Investment Bank financed with an injection of initial public capital
Provide targeted government support to UK supply chains
Spend more on research and development
Create regional development banks to support local businesses and regional industrial strategies
Reinstate the small business corporation tax rate.
Link business rates to (lower) CPI rather than RPI measure of inflation
Exempt new investment in plants and machinery from business rates
Nationalise the electricity distribution and transmission grid
Set up at least one publicly owned energy company in every region of the UK
Guarantee to cover any shortfall in EU Structural Funding that occurs as a result of Brexit
Make significant capital investment in childcare to ensure that places exist to meet demand
Extend the 30 free hours to all two-year-olds and potentially some one-year-olds
Phase in subsidised provision on top of free hour entitlements to make sure everyone has access to affordable childcare
Reverse the Tories’ cuts to education budgets
Give transitional relief to schools set to lose out under new funding formula
Reduce class sizes for children aged five to seven to under 30, and other children “as resources allow”
End the public sector pay cap
Reintroduce national pay bargaining
Extend schools-based counselling to all schools to improve children’s mental health
Abolish loans and fees for further education courses
Restore the Education Maintenance Allowance for 16-18 year olds from lower- and middle-income backgrounds
Increase capital investment in further education
Reverse cuts to Union Learn
Abolish university tuition fees
Reintroduce maintenance grants for university students
Introduce four new national public holidays
Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage
Abolish employment tribunal fees
Double paid paternity leave and increase paternity pay
Impose higher standards on companies bidding for public contracts (which will therefore drive up prices)
Compensate women born in the 1950s for having their state pension age increased
Scrap the rise to the pension age due by the end of 2020
Scrap the sanctions regime for those on benefits
Scrap the bedroom tax
Scrap cuts in bereavement support payments
Reinstate housing benefit for under-21s
Review the cuts to Universal Credit work allowances, and the decision to limit tax credits to the first two children in a family
Increase the Employment Support Allowance by £30 a week
Uprate carers’ allowance to the level of Jobseekers’ Allowance
Invest to built a million new homes
Guarantee Help to Buy funding for first-time buyers until 2027
Make 4,000 additional homes available for people with a history of rough sleeping
Invest £250 million in a new Children’s Health Fund
Increase health visitor and school nurse numbers
Commit to over £6 billion extra in annual NHS funding
Separately, boost capital funding for the NHS
Reverse the “privatisation” of the NHS and repeal the Health & Social Care Act
Provide an extra £8 billion over the Parliament for social care
Recruit 10,000 more police officers
Recruit 1,000 more border guards
Hire 3,000 more prison officers
Re-establish Legal Aid entitlement in the family courts, and for judicial review
Fund child burial fees for bereaved parents
Buy back the Royal Mail
Set up a Post Office bank
Invest in rural broadband, housing and transport
Spend more on flood management and coastal protection
Nationalise the railways
Once nationalised, freeze fares, introduce free wi-fi across the network, guarantee “safe staffing levels”, end driver-only operation and improve accessibility for the disabled
Build “Crossrail of the North”
Complete the “Science Vale transport arc” from Oxford to Cambridge through Milton Keynes
Build Crossrail 2
Set up municipal bus companies
Establish £1 billion Cultural Capital Fund to upgrade our existing cultural and creative infrastructure
Introduce an arts pupil premium to every primary school in England worth £160 million per year
Give the Equality and Human Rights Commission the appropriate funding to carry out its functions
Move towards a minimum target of government spending on diplomacy and conflict resolution
Improve pay and living conditions for the Armed Forces
Insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free
Invest in research to fight tropical diseases and improve public health in the developing world
It's not so much the policies themselves - hugely ambitious as they are - that I have a problem with.
It is more that I wouldn't trust Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry, Abbott and their fellow Marxists with a jar of fucking five pence pieces let alone the entire UK economy.
May and her mob are awful, no arguments there, but Labour right now, well.....where do you start?
Would Corbyn achieve all those in 5 years? Of course not. But investment now encourages returns later. A basic economic lesson the Tories seem to have forgotten in their rush to swing the ace, which has seen demand sucked out the economy.
Agreed, but to me it seems an awful lot isn't investing for returns later it's simply spending. The electorate will expect a number of those spending promises almost immediately.
I'm really interested to see the manifesto in full tomorrow, today it seems they also will re-nationalise the water companies, I assume they'll have to buy them, Thames Water alone has a market value of £12bn.
So instead we just let them rake in the profit which otherwise could be spent improving our infrastructure?
In 2013 alone, the water companies made in £1.9bn in profit.
The Thames Tideway Tunnel, something that was deemed necessary 12 years ago and is not planned to be complete for another 6 will cost £4.2bn. Something that could be paid for with just over 2 years of the profit that these companies are making.
Obviously it's not quite that simple but I think it's pretty shocking that people are profiting off of such a basic human need.
Would Corbyn achieve all those in 5 years? Of course not. But investment now encourages returns later. A basic economic lesson the Tories seem to have forgotten in their rush to swing the ace, which has seen demand sucked out the economy.
Agreed, but to me it seems an awful lot isn't investing for returns later it's simply spending. The electorate will expect a number of those spending promises almost immediately.
I'm really interested to see the manifesto in full tomorrow, today it seems they also will re-nationalise the water companies, I assume they'll have to buy them, Thames Water alone has a market value of £12bn.
I think it will manifesto for the kind of society we might want to live in. I agree with many posters that this is as much a fight for the future direction of the Labour Party.
There was quite an interesting program on the BBC about the effects of quantitative easing a few years back. It questioned which part of the economy it had most effect on and tried to suggest that it had distributed unevenly to the wealthiest in society. I believe this and the issue of govt bonds would be used as a mechanism for funding for some of what you have listed.
Some things like railway franchises would naturally expire and they have shown they can turn a profit (unheard of without taxpayer subsidies) in a short time. We already own a lot of the infrastructure of the industries they are suggesting to renationalise.
I just don't believe what JC wants to do is even remotely possible financially and will lead to financial ruin.
Here's a summary list I saw and this is without the promise of getting rid of the deficit in 5 years;
I'll put this up here as you'll be asleep by the time you get to the bottom of the list. Remember the income tax on the 5% is purely and soley for the NHS.........
Establish a National Investment Bank financed with an injection of initial public capital
Provide targeted government support to UK supply chains
Spend more on research and development
Create regional development banks to support local businesses and regional industrial strategies
Reinstate the small business corporation tax rate.
Link business rates to (lower) CPI rather than RPI measure of inflation
Exempt new investment in plants and machinery from business rates
Nationalise the electricity distribution and transmission grid
Set up at least one publicly owned energy company in every region of the UK
Guarantee to cover any shortfall in EU Structural Funding that occurs as a result of Brexit
Make significant capital investment in childcare to ensure that places exist to meet demand
Extend the 30 free hours to all two-year-olds and potentially some one-year-olds
Phase in subsidised provision on top of free hour entitlements to make sure everyone has access to affordable childcare
Reverse the Tories’ cuts to education budgets
Give transitional relief to schools set to lose out under new funding formula
Reduce class sizes for children aged five to seven to under 30, and other children “as resources allow”
End the public sector pay cap
Reintroduce national pay bargaining
Extend schools-based counselling to all schools to improve children’s mental health
Abolish loans and fees for further education courses
Restore the Education Maintenance Allowance for 16-18 year olds from lower- and middle-income backgrounds
Increase capital investment in further education
Reverse cuts to Union Learn
Abolish university tuition fees
Reintroduce maintenance grants for university students
Introduce four new national public holidays
Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage
Abolish employment tribunal fees
Double paid paternity leave and increase paternity pay
Impose higher standards on companies bidding for public contracts (which will therefore drive up prices)
Compensate women born in the 1950s for having their state pension age increased
Scrap the rise to the pension age due by the end of 2020
Scrap the sanctions regime for those on benefits
Scrap the bedroom tax
Scrap cuts in bereavement support payments
Reinstate housing benefit for under-21s
Review the cuts to Universal Credit work allowances, and the decision to limit tax credits to the first two children in a family
Increase the Employment Support Allowance by £30 a week
Uprate carers’ allowance to the level of Jobseekers’ Allowance
Invest to built a million new homes
Guarantee Help to Buy funding for first-time buyers until 2027
Make 4,000 additional homes available for people with a history of rough sleeping
Invest £250 million in a new Children’s Health Fund
Increase health visitor and school nurse numbers
Commit to over £6 billion extra in annual NHS funding
Separately, boost capital funding for the NHS
Reverse the “privatisation” of the NHS and repeal the Health & Social Care Act
Provide an extra £8 billion over the Parliament for social care
Recruit 10,000 more police officers
Recruit 1,000 more border guards
Hire 3,000 more prison officers
Re-establish Legal Aid entitlement in the family courts, and for judicial review
Fund child burial fees for bereaved parents
Buy back the Royal Mail
Set up a Post Office bank
Invest in rural broadband, housing and transport
Spend more on flood management and coastal protection
Nationalise the railways
Once nationalised, freeze fares, introduce free wi-fi across the network, guarantee “safe staffing levels”, end driver-only operation and improve accessibility for the disabled
Build “Crossrail of the North”
Complete the “Science Vale transport arc” from Oxford to Cambridge through Milton Keynes
Build Crossrail 2
Set up municipal bus companies
Establish £1 billion Cultural Capital Fund to upgrade our existing cultural and creative infrastructure
Introduce an arts pupil premium to every primary school in England worth £160 million per year
Give the Equality and Human Rights Commission the appropriate funding to carry out its functions
Move towards a minimum target of government spending on diplomacy and conflict resolution
Improve pay and living conditions for the Armed Forces
Insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free
Invest in research to fight tropical diseases and improve public health in the developing world
It's not so much the policies themselves - hugely ambitious as they are - that I have a problem with.
It is more that I wouldn't trust Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry, Abbott and their fellow Marxists with a jar of fucking five pence pieces let alone the entire UK economy.
May and her mob are awful, no arguments there, but Labour right now, well.....where do you start?
But that isn't a list of Marxist proposals is it? Political idiology has moved on, so have they. More akin to social democrat, but the centre ground has moved so far, it seems shockingly left.
How can trust the current govt after their awful economic record? Time to dispel the myth that they are great stewards that they profess to be. Both seem clueless at times.
And Thames have sneaked in a stealth tax by having the region declared under stress so everyone now has to be metered.
Which I was quite surprised at the results, I had one installed 18 months ago but am in 'transition' ie. still on rates but getting comparison bills. To my surprise despite living in a 4 person household including 3 women who seem to bath or shower every half an hour, I water my 200ft lawn, wash the cars on a regular basis etc etc, my meter bill is lower than rates. Were I a sole person living here i'd be quids in, really surprised.
Disagree in parts: Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house... All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
Those people are probably working and signing. I have a friend who works in a jobcentre and I know this isn't true. Go ahead and get angry about a fifment of you imagination, or look and see what benefit rates are!
@Rob7Lee thank for the list of Labour's draft manifesto list and as you I await the full launch to have a look at the costings behind them. Similarly with the Tories (why wasn't theirs out first btw they called the election?)
But that wasn't what I asked was it? I get that you're on a Anyone But Corbyn line but you haven't pointed to a single positive policy area that the Tories have ticked the boxes enough for you to give them your anti-Corbyn vote. In fact the policy you seem to hold out most as a progressive step in taking people out of tax was a Lib Dem one.
I'm not saying there aren't, it's just when I look at areas like those in my post above and others like education, housing, policing, social care...all I can see is failure and the UK being worse off than it was 7 years ago or not as far forward as it could have been. Pushing through gay marriage is about the sum total of succesful Tory policy as far as I can see but I'm sure I'll be corrected.
Honestly, I'm genuinely open to a bit of good news.
Comments
Most people that I have seen or know on benefits have more expensive clothes than I, more expensive TV's, Cars etc generally more and get benefits whilst working cash in hand or not at all. They go on multiple holidays a year and get a ridiculously cheap house...
All they tend to do is go to the odd GP appointment to say they're not ready to get back out there or go to the odd job interview...
I earn a bit below 40k and have an average car, average motorbike, average clothes (next etc) and I have to save up for months for a weekend away. I even have to save to buy for any additional expenses each month. Bills and mortgage = 80% of our monthly income. Food and a savings account for our daughter take up the remainder!
So yeah I'll say flip the benefits we get - £10 per week whilst some lazy chav gets hundreds maybe a thousand a month for doing flip all.
Meanwhile back in the world where most of us don't earn anything like that sort of salary...
https://theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/15/public-sector-workers-cut-pay-resolution-foundation
Well, you said you know them. They're your friends. You cant take it back now.
As for are the tories for the poor people, from a working perspective I believe they are in some respects, if you go back to my post earlier today I showed how someone on the smallest salary has seen their income tax come down form 10% of earnings to almost nothing. That wasn't Labour, but the Conservatives. At the same time the conservatives have increased tax on those at the upper end and taken away other things.
On the flip side Labour didn't increase the personal allowance much and also removed the 10p band........
As someone after me said, this though is just direct tax and not indirect which could switch it the other way but i'm struggling to find proper information on that.
I've never asked anyone 'to be grateful' for the tax I pay, but on the flip side Corbyn making me out to be some kind of taker from the poor is woefully wrong whether thats through compulsory tax or from what I chose to do voluntarily with my money.
On the link above, my wife works in the public sector, has had either no rise and maybe a couple of times 1%. Her take home pay has increased these past years as she now pays next to no tax thanks to the 90% increase in the personal allowance.
FWIW the last two general elections I voted 'locally' i.e. for the MP I thought would do the best job in my area, he's Labour. With JC at the helm it saddens me to say I don't think I can vote that way again. I just don't believe they'll be able to deliver anywhere near what they are promising. It'll be a mess for years.....
Sadly I believe the Tories answer is to gradually destroy system.
It's a good example of how piss poor a job we make of the welfare state. The other thing that amazes me is that in the same way you have benefit cheats playing the system and conning the public purse, you have big business and wealthy individuals playing the system at the other end. I never hear anything about reforming that 'system'
I wouldn't and didn't use the term "abnormal" either as that has negative connotations but earning as much as you and your colleagues do is certainly not the norm is it? My wife also works in the public sector and our jointearnings will not be anywhere near £70k by the time we retire in 15-20 years time. And our average household income is above average. I'm not making you out to be taking money off the poor at all just trying to provide some context that is not London centric.
I agree totally that Corbyn is not PM material and have said so several times already on this thread but I'm interested in your comment that under Labour it will be a mess for years. Given that we've now had a Tory PM for 7 years, what is it you think has gone so well under them? The economy? The NHS? Foreign policy? The environment? Brexit!!? I honestly can't think of single thing they've done well for me personally.
Shame you and most of the public have made their mind up about JC. The polls have seemed to show a bit of a bump as he has got out there, much like his leadership campaign. You can only wonder what the perception of him might have been if he could of formed an effective opposition instead of having to brief against his own PLP most of the time.
Here's a summary list I saw and this is without the promise of getting rid of the deficit in 5 years;
I'll put this up here as you'll be asleep by the time you get to the bottom of the list. Remember the income tax on the 5% is purely and soley for the NHS.........
Establish a National Investment Bank financed with an injection of initial public capital
Provide targeted government support to UK supply chains
Spend more on research and development
Create regional development banks to support local businesses and regional industrial strategies
Reinstate the small business corporation tax rate.
Link business rates to (lower) CPI rather than RPI measure of inflation
Exempt new investment in plants and machinery from business rates
Nationalise the electricity distribution and transmission grid
Set up at least one publicly owned energy company in every region of the UK
Guarantee to cover any shortfall in EU Structural Funding that occurs as a result of Brexit
Make significant capital investment in childcare to ensure that places exist to meet demand
Extend the 30 free hours to all two-year-olds and potentially some one-year-olds
Phase in subsidised provision on top of free hour entitlements to make sure everyone has access to affordable childcare
Reverse the Tories’ cuts to education budgets
Give transitional relief to schools set to lose out under new funding formula
Reduce class sizes for children aged five to seven to under 30, and other children “as resources allow”
End the public sector pay cap
Reintroduce national pay bargaining
Extend schools-based counselling to all schools to improve children’s mental health
Abolish loans and fees for further education courses
Restore the Education Maintenance Allowance for 16-18 year olds from lower- and middle-income backgrounds
Increase capital investment in further education
Reverse cuts to Union Learn
Abolish university tuition fees
Reintroduce maintenance grants for university students
Introduce four new national public holidays
Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage
Abolish employment tribunal fees
Double paid paternity leave and increase paternity pay
Impose higher standards on companies bidding for public contracts (which will therefore drive up prices)
Compensate women born in the 1950s for having their state pension age increased
Scrap the rise to the pension age due by the end of 2020
Scrap the sanctions regime for those on benefits
Scrap the bedroom tax
Scrap cuts in bereavement support payments
Reinstate housing benefit for under-21s
Review the cuts to Universal Credit work allowances, and the decision to limit tax credits to the first two children in a family
Increase the Employment Support Allowance by £30 a week
Uprate carers’ allowance to the level of Jobseekers’ Allowance
Invest to built a million new homes
Guarantee Help to Buy funding for first-time buyers until 2027
Make 4,000 additional homes available for people with a history of rough sleeping
Invest £250 million in a new Children’s Health Fund
Increase health visitor and school nurse numbers
Commit to over £6 billion extra in annual NHS funding
Separately, boost capital funding for the NHS
Reverse the “privatisation” of the NHS and repeal the Health & Social Care Act
Provide an extra £8 billion over the Parliament for social care
Recruit 10,000 more police officers
Recruit 1,000 more border guards
Hire 3,000 more prison officers
Re-establish Legal Aid entitlement in the family courts, and for judicial review
Fund child burial fees for bereaved parents
Buy back the Royal Mail
Set up a Post Office bank
Invest in rural broadband, housing and transport
Spend more on flood management and coastal protection
Nationalise the railways
Once nationalised, freeze fares, introduce free wi-fi across the network, guarantee “safe staffing levels”, end driver-only operation and improve accessibility for the disabled
Build “Crossrail of the North”
Complete the “Science Vale transport arc” from Oxford to Cambridge through Milton Keynes
Build Crossrail 2
Set up municipal bus companies
Establish £1 billion Cultural Capital Fund to upgrade our existing cultural and creative infrastructure
Introduce an arts pupil premium to every primary school in England worth £160 million per year
Give the Equality and Human Rights Commission the appropriate funding to carry out its functions
Move towards a minimum target of government spending on diplomacy and conflict resolution
Improve pay and living conditions for the Armed Forces
Insulate the homes of disabled veterans for free
Invest in research to fight tropical diseases and improve public health in the developing world
I'm really interested to see the manifesto in full tomorrow, today it seems they also will re-nationalise the water companies, I assume they'll have to buy them, Thames Water alone has a market value of £12bn.
It is more that I wouldn't trust Corbyn, McDonnell, Thornberry, Abbott and their fellow Marxists with a jar of fucking five pence pieces let alone the entire UK economy.
May and her mob are awful, no arguments there, but Labour right now, well.....where do you start?
In 2013 alone, the water companies made in £1.9bn in profit.
The Thames Tideway Tunnel, something that was deemed necessary 12 years ago and is not planned to be complete for another 6 will cost £4.2bn. Something that could be paid for with just over 2 years of the profit that these companies are making.
Obviously it's not quite that simple but I think it's pretty shocking that people are profiting off of such a basic human need.
There was quite an interesting program on the BBC about the effects of quantitative easing a few years back. It questioned which part of the economy it had most effect on and tried to suggest that it had distributed unevenly to the wealthiest in society. I believe this and the issue of govt bonds would be used as a mechanism for funding for some of what you have listed.
Some things like railway franchises would naturally expire and they have shown they can turn a profit (unheard of without taxpayer subsidies) in a short time. We already own a lot of the infrastructure of the industries they are suggesting to renationalise.
How can trust the current govt after their awful economic record? Time to dispel the myth that they are great stewards that they profess to be. Both seem clueless at times.
But that wasn't what I asked was it? I get that you're on a Anyone But Corbyn line but you haven't pointed to a single positive policy area that the Tories have ticked the boxes enough for you to give them your anti-Corbyn vote. In fact the policy you seem to hold out most as a progressive step in taking people out of tax was a Lib Dem one.
I'm not saying there aren't, it's just when I look at areas like those in my post above and others like education, housing, policing, social care...all I can see is failure and the UK being worse off than it was 7 years ago or not as far forward as it could have been. Pushing through gay marriage is about the sum total of succesful Tory policy as far as I can see but I'm sure I'll be corrected.
Honestly, I'm genuinely open to a bit of good news.