Or maybe the players he wants are being overpriced because people know we actually do have a bit of money.
Who knows - and I know this is radical, but maybe he's telling the truth.
Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative but that's life sometimes.
Maybe he is. But is that good enough?
Footballs is a results business, off the pitch as well as on it. Would Robinson accept his players saying "well I tried to score but the other team had good defenders and a keeper in form"? No, of course not. Obstacles are expected and it is his and Meire's job to overcome them. To find a way.
Be that persuading Duchatelet to provide a bit more money, being better at negotiating, whatever. It's their job to make Charlton successful, not tell the fans why they couldn't do that.
And £1.5m to £2m for a striker who will make a big difference, that can do for us what Billy Sharp did for Sheffield United, is not (or should not be) out of the question. Are we in this league to win it, or not? If yes, let Duchatelet and Meire put their money where their mouth is. If not, then cut the excuses.
I guess this depends on who is paying the £1.5 to £2m. Are you offering to pay it?
Stupid comment.
So a third division striker is ok at £2m just as long as someone else is paying for it?
I, personally, think that £2m (or even £1.5m) is irresponsible for a player that hasn't proved himself above the level where very few clubs can afford to sign him. If anything this kind of 'investment' is more similar to the 'value for money' that we got for the likes of a Naby Sarr or Polish Pete.
If he is not good enough for the Championship then if we go up we'll be stuck with him on wages that we would have to subsidise to move him on.
I find every bit as stupid to expect the club to sign players for these kind of sums of money as I do asking you if you'd be happy to pay for it.
Facts:
1. Our owner is mega-rich
2. Very little of the Lookman windfall has so far been spent.
3. The FD has confirmed no issues with FFP
4. The club have declared that they want to mount a promotion campaign.
We have the money. We have the rhetoric. We now need the actions to match the rhetoric. To be fair, they've done ok so far this transfer window but a failure to buy a good striker could undo all that good work.
We can afford it. It comes down to intent.
And, by the way, no problem with your point of view. It's perfectly valid. But the "are you offering to pay it" is way below your usual level of debate.
Pretty much my view, and a bit disappointed with Kings Hill. We have a mega rich boss. We want out of the league. Ergo..... other clubs put the prices up. Not a good moment to be playing the skint guy on the block. We've spent next to nothing this window. Watt, Ajose, Tex etc have all gone. The Lookman money is untouched. Yet we are haggling like an eighty year old over the price of a cuppa. You are right, it's not my money. But the ongoing losses aren't down to me either. Soooo .... do we want promotion, or to settle down as a big fish in tier 3?
2 clubs have been interested in Lennon so I don't think it would be a problem to get him offloaded. I suspect he will keep him and Sarr to cover LB between them. Either that or he is back training as an emergency striker.
Two things the club need to be defended on Imo: 1 - we have had a good summer of recruitment, regardless of how little has been spent on transfer fees. Two good fees paid for Fosu and Clarke, two good loans and 2 of the best free agents in the league. Nobody has left that I was particularly bothered about. Tex was good but we still have 3 good CBs and Igor would have been very useful but I doubt he wanted to be here. 2 - people now asking the club to go get a quality striker. If it were that easy, every club would. Even goalscorers like Godden and Akinde have large price tags and aren't that proven. Us and Wigan are two of the favourites to go up, of course they aren't going to be keen to help strengthen a rival.
I suspect Grigg could be got but we would have to pay above his value. For all the talk of signing British players, I think we might have to go abroad.
Or maybe the players he wants are being overpriced because people know we actually do have a bit of money.
Who knows - and I know this is radical, but maybe he's telling the truth.
Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative but that's life sometimes.
Maybe he is. But is that good enough?
Footballs is a results business, off the pitch as well as on it. Would Robinson accept his players saying "well I tried to score but the other team had good defenders and a keeper in form"? No, of course not. Obstacles are expected and it is his and Meire's job to overcome them. To find a way.
Be that persuading Duchatelet to provide a bit more money, being better at negotiating, whatever. It's their job to make Charlton successful, not tell the fans why they couldn't do that.
And £1.5m to £2m for a striker who will make a big difference, that can do for us what Billy Sharp did for Sheffield United, is not (or should not be) out of the question. Are we in this league to win it, or not? If yes, let Duchatelet and Meire put their money where their mouth is. If not, then cut the excuses.
I guess this depends on who is paying the £1.5 to £2m. Are you offering to pay it?
Stupid comment.
So a third division striker is ok at £2m just as long as someone else is paying for it?
I, personally, think that £2m (or even £1.5m) is irresponsible for a player that hasn't proved himself above the level where very few clubs can afford to sign him. If anything this kind of 'investment' is more similar to the 'value for money' that we got for the likes of a Naby Sarr or Polish Pete.
If he is not good enough for the Championship then if we go up we'll be stuck with him on wages that we would have to subsidise to move him on.
I find every bit as stupid to expect the club to sign players for these kind of sums of money as I do asking you if you'd be happy to pay for it.
Facts:
1. Our owner is mega-rich
2. Very little of the Lookman windfall has so far been spent.
3. The FD has confirmed no issues with FFP
4. The club have declared that they want to mount a promotion campaign.
We have the money. We have the rhetoric. We now need the actions to match the rhetoric. To be fair, they've done ok so far this transfer window but a failure to buy a good striker could undo all that good work.
We can afford it. It comes down to intent.
And, by the way, no problem with your point of view. It's perfectly valid. But the "are you offering to pay it" is way below your usual level of debate.
Fair enough. It wasn't my finest moment.
Re point 2, I think that windfall went on the running costs last season.
I do agree that we need a striker and a decent one at this lever, or better, is going to make a big difference to our potential promotion campaign. I just think I am a little more sympathetic to the club not paying well over the odds for players - especially as those running it, currently, have shown that they are not good judges of value for money.
I believe Grigg scored a whopping 8 goals all last year in all competitions.
I do not see him as a solution. Certainly not worth over a million!
Everyone remembers the prior year when the song was named after him. But he has not replicated anything close to that before or since.
I think the clamour for him is desperation blinding people to the data suggesting he is probably not even as good as what we have.
You're moaning at people for basing opinions on data, but most of your posts about players you want are based on their stats and I'm pretty sure you done a wish list of players you wanted when the window opened and the only thing you knew about them was that they had won player of the year at their clubs the season before
Yes, we should have got someone in earlier, especially if Novak is unsettled
To be fair, we're hardly the only club desperately trying to do business in the last week of the window, just about every club is desperate to do business
I believe Grigg scored a whopping 8 goals all last year in all competitions.
I do not see him as a solution. Certainly not worth over a million!
Everyone remembers the prior year when the song was named after him. But he has not replicated anything close to that before or since.
I think the clamour for him is desperation blinding people to the data suggesting he is probably not even as good as what we have.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Or maybe the players he wants are being overpriced because people know we actually do have a bit of money.
Who knows - and I know this is radical, but maybe he's telling the truth.
Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative but that's life sometimes.
Or maybe because Duchatelet refuses to pay the going rate and leaves the squad building / negotiating to the very last minute, when prices are higher. Same story every transfer window.
Apologies if that doesn't fit / challenges your point of view either, its all opinion though eh ?
Please tell me what you think the "going rate" is for someone like Will Grigg ??? £2m ?? £3m ??? I'm sure if we offered £5m Wigan would sell !! The problem is that they don't want to sell & don't need to sell. Its not like they have 6 or 7 strikers & he's on mega money that is blowing a hole in their wage bill.
I'm the first one to moan that we haven't signed a striker, but fairs fait. I wouldn't pay anymore than £750k for any League 1 striker
Or maybe the players he wants are being overpriced because people know we actually do have a bit of money.
Who knows - and I know this is radical, but maybe he's telling the truth.
Sorry if it doesn't fit the narrative but that's life sometimes.
Or maybe because Duchatelet refuses to pay the going rate and leaves the squad building / negotiating to the very last minute, when prices are higher. Same story every transfer window.
Apologies if that doesn't fit / challenges your point of view either, its all opinion though eh ?
Please tell me what you think the "going rate" is for someone like Will Grigg ??? £2m ?? £3m ??? I'm sure if we offered £5m Wigan would sell !! The problem is that they don't want to sell & don't need to sell. Its not like they have 6 or 7 strikers & he's on mega money that is blowing a hole in their wage bill.
I'm the first one to moan that we haven't signed a striker, but fairs fait. I wouldn't pay anymore than £750k for any League 1 striker
In today's market, a million quid for a striker like Grigg isn't the worst bit of business you could go. In his last 3 seasons in this league, he has scored 20 odd goals.
Of course it's not guaranteed, but I would prefer to pay 1 Mil for Grigg then 500/600k for Akinde or Godden.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
I remember everyone dismissed me when I said we made a mistake not going after David Ball, who was a free.
But we did go after him...
and lost out to the mighty Rotherham with their massive crowds, enormous stadium and mega, mega rich owner.
Which means I doubt we tried very hard.
I think a lot of managers say "We went after him" when it means all they did was make one phone call, look at a YouTube video and called it a day.
I can accept us losing a target to a team in the Championship, but not some crap club in our league. Or any club in League One. With the size, crowds and London location, frankly, if we put in the right effort, we should be able to get almost anyone we want if the only other bidders are in our division.
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
I still can't get over how someone living in California can have such an in depth knowledge/interest of league one football. I live in south east London, have done all my life and I don't know half the players you talk of
So you're moaning about people using the 'data' as a reason for signing him yet you're completely wrong about it. More so than that every single player you've named for us to sign has been nothing more than a Google search of top scorers.
Mmmmm, not really. The one's I have recommended signing this window are the following....
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
I still can't get over how someone living in California can have such an in depth knowledge/interest of league one football. I live in south east London, have done all my life and I don't know half the players you talk of
Comments
Pretty much my view, and a bit disappointed with Kings Hill. We have a mega rich boss. We want out of the league. Ergo..... other clubs put the prices up. Not a good moment to be playing the skint guy on the block. We've spent next to nothing this window. Watt, Ajose, Tex etc have all gone. The Lookman money is untouched. Yet we are haggling like an eighty year old over the price of a cuppa.
You are right, it's not my money. But the ongoing losses aren't down to me either. Soooo .... do we want promotion, or to settle down as a big fish in tier 3?
Two things the club need to be defended on Imo:
1 - we have had a good summer of recruitment, regardless of how little has been spent on transfer fees. Two good fees paid for Fosu and Clarke, two good loans and 2 of the best free agents in the league. Nobody has left that I was particularly bothered about. Tex was good but we still have 3 good CBs and Igor would have been very useful but I doubt he wanted to be here.
2 - people now asking the club to go get a quality striker. If it were that easy, every club would. Even goalscorers like Godden and Akinde have large price tags and aren't that proven. Us and Wigan are two of the favourites to go up, of course they aren't going to be keen to help strengthen a rival.
I suspect Grigg could be got but we would have to pay above his value. For all the talk of signing British players, I think we might have to go abroad.
Re point 2, I think that windfall went on the running costs last season.
I do agree that we need a striker and a decent one at this lever, or better, is going to make a big difference to our potential promotion campaign. I just think I am a little more sympathetic to the club not paying well over the odds for players - especially as those running it, currently, have shown that they are not good judges of value for money.
I do not see him as a solution. Certainly not worth over a million!
Everyone remembers the prior year when the song was named after him. But he has not replicated anything close to that before or since.
I think the clamour for him is desperation blinding people to the data suggesting he is probably not even as good as what we have.
Also he would be a much better option than Novak
1 not "everyone" dismissed you
2. We did go after him
How is he not as good as what we have?
To be fair, we're hardly the only club desperately trying to do business in the last week of the window, just about every club is desperate to do business
I'm the first one to moan that we haven't signed a striker, but fairs fait. I wouldn't pay anymore than £750k for any League 1 striker
Of course it's not guaranteed, but I would prefer to pay 1 Mil for Grigg then 500/600k for Akinde or Godden.
Ollie Watkins, age 21, POY, forward, because he was apparently the best player in all of L2. Obviously he would be hard to get, as he wanted the Championship. But he sold for £1.8M, only. Buying him at that price is far better than Grigg at a mil, imho.
David Ball, striker, because he has been constantly averaging about 10-13 since 2011 and he was free (plus 1.85m tall its nice to have height.) Free. Repeat. Free. I'll take Ball on a free over Grigg for a mil anyday.
James Justin, age 20, defender, because he was not very expensive (under $1m), apparently has a great attitude, has the size and speed and was one of the best defenders in L2 and could help us for a decade.
Liam Lindsay, age 23, defender, because he is big, has a great attitude, and was one of the best players in Scotland, and is young with good upside, and could have been bought for £350k, possibly.
Aaron Pierre, age 24, defender, who is considered one of the best defenders in L2, costs £300k or so.
Nathan Thomas, POY, striker, who was a "close to" free and has some amazing highlights, age 20, with upside.
Nathan Smith, defender, age 23, POY for Port Vale and according to their own fans a really good defender
Lawrence Vigouroux, keeper, multiple POY, has the size, attitude, age 24
Billy Waters, striker, a bit small but ferocious apparently and great attitude and just 23.
So of the 9 people I hoped we would make a run at, only 4 were scorers and none were league leaders in scoring. I wanted them because they were either free, with a solid history of scoring. Or were very young and considered extremely good with huge upside by their own fan base and those watching. I wanted Ball because I felt he was as good as any striker we had and was free. Key word. Free.
Now we are behind the 8-ball, the season is underway, and we are gonna spend 1 million on someone at the last minute. Desperation rarely works out.
Yes, I am data driven, but not the kind of data of... who scored, alone. I am a fan of meta-data, all of which indicates spending money on transfers of players in their prime (or past, like Marshall) leads to poor long-term relative results compared to buying younger players with upside. We are not ManU or PSG. We are a club in the middle of League One, trying to get out. I believe we should be stockpiling the best young players from the league below us and improving them, not spending millions on those in their prime (or past) with a history of injuries like Grigg or Marshall. I like gathering POY from clubs. When the entire team or fan base votes someone POY, that gets my attention, especially is they are young and getting better.
Plus, you are forgetting another possibility... what if we get Grigg for a mil and then RD decides to recoup that by selling Konsa for £3 mil. How would that tickle your fancy?
Which means I doubt we tried very hard.
I think a lot of managers say "We went after him" when it means all they did was make one phone call, look at a YouTube video and called it a day.
I can accept us losing a target to a team in the Championship, but not some crap club in our league. Or any club in League One. With the size, crowds and London location, frankly, if we put in the right effort, we should be able to get almost anyone we want if the only other bidders are in our division.