So anyone who is against sampling and thinks it displays a lack of creativity, if you are open to changing your view to 'just not as accomplished as someone who both plays their own music exclusively, an instrumentalist, writer and singer',
I would recommend The Avalanches - since I left you.
I've never really been a fan of the hip hop scene although I can appreciate the artistry in the production. At least a Tribe Called Quest managed to be lyrically 'clever' without filling the track with references to gangs, drugs, hoes or bitches, crime or who is the biggest badass (although I still don't know what all the lyrics refer to here). That kind of hip hop definitely leaves me cold.
Having said that, Lou Reed's lyrics are just as sleazy
Was a big Velvets fan back in the day and when Transformer came out viewed it as rather 'commercial' but accepted that Lou had to start to make some money somehow rather than being a template for others. Played Transformer a lot, but for this kind of thing would often go back to VU, especially fond of Sister Ray but a lot of the other stuff is simply brilliant. For this comparison it is Lou Reed. Got nothing against the other beat combo, although a lot of rap type music feels like I'm being hectored or lectured to, whereas Lou and the Velvets always feels like an invitation to peep into another world so to speak.
Not sure why The Beatles are being cited as paragons of creativity. “They were good looking boys with great haircuts and British accents but as far as their music was concerned they weren’t anything new,” Professor Armand Leroi, chief author of 'The evolution of popular music: USA 1960–2010'.
Lol, That album of theirs, Sargent Peppers something or other.....whatever happened to that?
BTW - Im not a huge Beatles fan, however their legacy to popular music can never be undone.
Like you I'm not a huge Beatles fan, but thanks for mentioning Sgt Pepper as I listened again and enjoyed it as I always do. It's a good album and the production is groundbreaking, but get underneath that and there's nothing particularly new musically: A bit of pop; a bit of what might now be called rock, but probably wasn't back then; some ballads; some circus music, a brass band and some indian style music. That's it. It's an eclectic mix I'll grant you, but there's not much musically that hadn't been heard before. It was different to the Beatles MoR pop that preceded it, it had great production and an iconic Peter Blake design to accompany it. The most notable thing though is how they pulled off the trick of getting people to believe it was groundbreaking. Because it truly isn't. Just listen again with a critical ear and you'll hear how ordinary the tunes are. Sgt Pepper: a good album certainly, but quite possibly also the most over-rated album in the history of the world.
Not sure why The Beatles are being cited as paragons of creativity. “They were good looking boys with great haircuts and British accents but as far as their music was concerned they weren’t anything new,” Professor Armand Leroi, chief author of 'The evolution of popular music: USA 1960–2010'.
Lol, That album of theirs, Sargent Peppers something or other.....whatever happened to that?
BTW - Im not a huge Beatles fan, however their legacy to popular music can never be undone.
Like you I'm not a huge Beatles fan, but thanks for mentioning Sgt Pepper as I listened again and enjoyed it as I always do. It's a good album and the production is groundbreaking, but get underneath that and there's nothing particularly new musically: A bit of pop; a bit of what might now be called rock, but probably wasn't back then; some ballads; some circus music, a brass band and some indian style music. That's it. It's an eclectic mix I'll grant you, but there's not much musically that hadn't been heard before. It was different to the Beatles MoR pop that preceded it, it had great production and an iconic Peter Blake design to accompany it. The most notable thing though is how they pulled of the trick of getting people to believe it was groundbreaking. Because it truly isn't. Just listen again with a critical ear and you'll hear how ordinary the tunes are. Sgt Pepper: a good album certainly, but quite possibly also the most over-rated album in the history of the world.
I understand your point, but I was really referencing that link, the guy was missing the point IMO, and you can say that about most artists/genres, you could say it about the first Blues song about the first Rock N roll song, the first angry Punk song....etc etc..everything after in those genres are not new. Most Rock N Roll and Blues songs are 451, But its not just the music, its the time, its the soul within the music and its the identity/style of the band and if they influence other musicians, without ripping them off etc etc.
I help run a blues/rock jam, and we get our far share of Hendrix wannabes, in fact some are pretty good, but most of the time when I hear the opening riff to Hey Joe or a Henrixesque All Along The Watchtower, Im like so what, same old shit......they have all the licks etc but stand there looking at their shoes while playing, visually they are just a snore, I want to be entertained with the music and entertained visually.
As long as the artist(s) wrote the song and didn't rip anyone of its a great starting point, bottom line for me is. 'do I like it?'
Sgt Pepper is held up by most as an Iconic album of the time, a piece of work that was ground breaking, even the Stones got on the bandwagon with Satanic Majesties, for me I dont care either way, its not really what Im into, I commented on it because it is held in high claim by the majority, you dont think it should be, I get that, but many many more do. This is one of the reasons I love the subjectiveness of music, and how we feel it defines us.......!
No comparison really is there, Lou Reeds is a timeless quality piece of work, that other thing is just a collection of shit noises (apart from the bass) with some talentless fool jabbering over the top.
A typical uneducated and 'talentless' response by someone who does not understand or clearly listen to hip hop music.
I assume Greenie's labeling of 'Can You Kick It' as 'thieving crap' is in reference to this songs use of sampling (something that is very common in the genre of Hip Hop music). As we all know 'Can You Kick It' actually uses multiple samples not just Lou Reeds 'Walk on the Wild Side'.
My somewhat vague point is sampling was around well before Hip Hop ever came about. Many people are quick to compartmentalise Hip Hop as a 'collection of shit noise with talentless fools jabbering over the top'. There are many, many complex and innovative Hip Hop albums out there, just because the music is not to your taste does not mean the artists are not talented or the music is shit.
If Hip Hop artists write all their own stuff and dont nick another artists superior material to use as a vehicle to peddle their work, then excellent...if not then its thieving crap......but if you like it mate, then for you its great. For me as a musician, I hate musical thiefs, It totally devalues and artist's work and ethos. Also Tomorrow Never Knows had nothing sampled on it, It was written by Lennon, and as far as I know all the instruments were played by the band and/or George Martin. It also had 5 loops on it, but those loops were created by the band and/or sound engineer. The Sitar was played by Harrison, sampling wasn't around then (as we know it), the artists had to create the sounds themselves and because they had the creative talent, they could. When all said and done, I do find it interesting how different people see music, it is emotive but ultimately subjective. And apologies for hijacking the thread.
Sampling actually doesnt happen much in hip hop, its become too expensive, only artists in recent times to have really sampled is kanye and maybe kendrick, plenty of amazing music out therethe without samples, ATCQ recently released a new album, recently, well worth a listen, despite the (IMO crazy) opinion that Q-tip and the late Phife (R.I.P funky diabetic) are talentless
Comments
I would recommend The Avalanches - since I left you.
One of my favourite albums, all samples.
What did you think of the first three Velvet Underground albums when you listened to them?
Whereas, the original by Lou Reed is, as @Greenie stated, timeless. Superb sound, vocals and lyrics.
This song never dates.
Having said that, Lou Reed's lyrics are just as sleazy
I'd vote for Lou.
For this comparison it is Lou Reed. Got nothing against the other beat combo, although a lot of rap type music feels like I'm being hectored or lectured to, whereas Lou and the Velvets always feels like an invitation to peep into another world so to speak.
Most Rock N Roll and Blues songs are 451, But its not just the music, its the time, its the soul within the music and its the identity/style of the band and if they influence other musicians, without ripping them off etc etc.
I help run a blues/rock jam, and we get our far share of Hendrix wannabes, in fact some are pretty good, but most of the time when I hear the opening riff to Hey Joe or a Henrixesque All Along The Watchtower, Im like so what, same old shit......they have all the licks etc but stand there looking at their shoes while playing, visually they are just a snore, I want to be entertained with the music and entertained visually.
As long as the artist(s) wrote the song and didn't rip anyone of its a great starting point, bottom line for me is. 'do I like it?'
Sgt Pepper is held up by most as an Iconic album of the time, a piece of work that was ground breaking, even the Stones got on the bandwagon with Satanic Majesties, for me I dont care either way, its not really what Im into, I commented on it because it is held in high claim by the majority, you dont think it should be, I get that, but many many more do. This is one of the reasons I love the subjectiveness of music, and how we feel it defines us.......!
SP appears in all the top ten lists btw
https://www.thetoptens.com/albums/
Whats yer problem? Maybe I can help you.
Which became this without them getting sued or crediting Lou Reed (I don't think, anyway).
But a good showing for TCQ.
Another cover to cover next Wednesday
Don't forget the version by Brighton's 'Finest', The Popguns!