In light of their recent meeting with Uncle Dick and with the new spirit of dialogue with the club, I hope the Trust request a meeting with The Chief Operations Officer, on what went wrong in his eyes and what could be done better under a new owners.
Or if you can't make it, ask for 11 representatives who would like to go instead.
Wait a minute. Sue Perks told me that the Work was continuing on schedule and any suggestion otherwise was a rumour started by criminals who were anti Roland and didn't understand that he had saved us.
That’s how he funded the work for the rugby club and community trust.
I assume you don't mean the entire £7.5-10m (or whatever it really was) was spent on that?
This is the bit I mean. Even the CACT hierarchy thinks it's bizarre the football club paid for this.
From the OS:
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
My memory sometimes plays tricks on me now so apologies for any inaccuracy's.
Just before RD bought the club Peter Varney published his plan for modernization of the Training ground (up to grade 1 status i believe?)
Costed at £10 million, with plans for a completely new building included. It was described as 'full funded' i believe with grants from multiple sources.
This plan was abandoned with great haste and reasons given were unconvincing. At one point they wanted to add a swimming pool? i believe.
So this regime abandoned a fully funded scheme, instead we have dug some drainage ditches and improved some pitches, some of which are for a rugby club.
Airman will be able to correct any of my mistakes i am sure.
One day it is to be hoped we find out where the A. Lookman money has gone.
That's the garden in full bloom , possibly in it's 1st year of the revamp, with the following one in the summer of 2015 being it's peak. The Red Robin hedging was well established & had bulked out considerably by then & the perennials at their best.
We thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of re establishing the area & tended it on a weekly basis during the growing season until we moved to Sussex that October, making its maintenance more difficult.
However, it was at this time that we were advised the Garden was to be dismantled in readiness for the work scheduled to start at SL but that the plants would be transported to Hadlow College to be tended there until a new site was agreed upon & that we would be involved in the decision making about this when the time came.....
My memory sometimes plays tricks on me now so apologies for any inaccuracy's.
Just before RD bought the club Peter Varney published his plan for modernization of the Training ground (up to grade 1 status i believe?)
Costed at £10 million, with plans for a completely new building included. It was described as 'full funded' i believe with grants from multiple sources.
This plan was abandoned with great haste and reasons given were unconvincing. At one point they wanted to add a swimming pool? i believe.
So this regime abandoned a fully funded scheme, instead we have dug some drainage ditches and improved some pitches, some of which are for a rugby club.
Airman will be able to correct any of my mistakes i am sure.
One day it is to be hoped we find out where the A. Lookman money has gone.
Roland's got his henchmen to hide it in one of those trenches. He'll send his goons along in a few years' time to retrieve the dosh once the trail's gone cold.
So two and a half years on what are the plans now under Sandgaard?
We know TS doesn't own SL (or the Valley) and it seems doesn't have an obligation to buy in five years or at the end of the new 15 year lease.
So where does that leave the development of Sparrows Lane?
Will it happen?
What will happen
When will it happen?
Who pays for it?
TS has mentioned the academy but without extensive development the club can't achieve Cat 1 status leaving us at a distinct disadvantage when recruiting and retaining young players. Palace were approved as a Cat 1 academy in July 2020 leaving us even further behind.
Even without aiming for Cat 1 status the facilities are old, tired and badly in need to renovation.
Yes, TS has only been here a week so not expecting a new trench to be dug today but very interested in the plans.
I reckon TS may well do a deal with Roland to buy the training ground. It shouldn't cost too much it's the valley that is the bulk of the cost. Why would TSspend a few million or whatever doing up the training ground if Roland still owns it.
I am sure TS said that although the club only rent the training ground, TS can do any improvements he likes
TS would be well advised to get the twunt to acknowledge all improvements and their costs cos when it comes time to talk turkey with the deluded old parasite he'll be inclined to put the price up for all the good stuff he hasn't provided. TS has had a basic grounding in 🐀's special brand of lunacy but can't have enjoyed roly's full range of grasping non-sequitur yet.
I am sure TS said that although the club only rent the training ground, TS can do any improvements he likes
I can't imagine he'd want to do major works though without owning it. The same applies to The Valley. He might spend some money on refurbishing the lounges and East Stand bogs, but won't rebuild a stand
Personally I expect him to be secretly negotiating the purchase of both, and will announce it at some point as a complete surprise to everyone.
Cat 1 would be nice, but very expensive. Even with his financial backing, that would be a massive cost for a L1 club
How much would it cost to complete the upgrade ? £5 million ? I really have no idea. I think if TS invested that amount he would see it returned many many times over in academy products over the 15 year lease. One Joe Gomez and a Karlan Grant would put you into clear profit. I think TS would be nuts not to achieve Cat 1
I did tweet Terry Smith to ask TS re the Academy but guess he didn’t have the chance during the commentary
Too busy with happy birthday shout outs to ask anything about football
yep - i really don't get all that during the commentary - half time if they have to but during the match ?
Drives me mad. I'm looking for football commentary during a football match, not birthday shout outs and hellos to people living all around the world. Just imagine if the TV or radio commentators did it?
How much would it cost to complete the upgrade ? £5 million ? I really have no idea. I think if TS invested that amount he would see it returned many many times over in academy products over the 15 year lease. One Joe Gomez and a Karlan Grant would put you into clear profit. I think TS would be nuts not to achieve Cat 1
The operating costs of a Cat 1 academy are the issue, not the capital cost. They’re not sustainable in L1. You’d also struggle to make the business case for the difference between Cat 2 and Cat 1 against the cost - after all we produced Joe Gomez and Karlan Grant without it. The question is what value would it add.
I am very glad TS completed the takeover of us and saved us from certain administration...but... I am concerned about the deal struck with RD. Sure we now have the "stability" of a 15 year lease but frankly no one is likely to invest in TV or SL whilst only owned as leasehold, it would be crazy. Would just show commitment to both assets which RD will then use to increase his price further. Until RD is gone we remain in a parlous position imo.
He is never going to accept less than what he was holding out for previously now he is getting 'multiples' of the £200K pa rent he was previously. There is a global recession upon us and interest rates cut to the bone, but with quantative easing we also have an asset bubble meaning no one can get a yield return on their money so RD will be very happy collecting a higher rent and sitting out the lease to pass on to his family.
TS is wealthy but not at the level needed to drop £40-50M cash on TV/SL so we will sit in a sort of hiatus with minimal capital expenditure on our assets unless we reach the PL and money becomes easy.
Let's just hope TS does not get bored in 2-3 years when he realizes the life of a tier 3 (or 2 if we are successful in promotion) is not that glamorous and the route to the PL is an exceptionally expensive one.
Would love to hear what TS has to say about SL and TV from an investment perspective as it may just help allay some of my fears.
@Henry Irving maybe a Bromley Addicks zoom call or similar whilst people can't actually meet easily...
How much would it cost to complete the upgrade ? £5 million ? I really have no idea. I think if TS invested that amount he would see it returned many many times over in academy products over the 15 year lease. One Joe Gomez and a Karlan Grant would put you into clear profit. I think TS would be nuts not to achieve Cat 1
The operating costs of a Cat 1 academy are the issue, not the capital cost. They’re not sustainable in L1. You’d also struggle to make the business case for the difference between Cat 2 and Cat 1 against the cost - after all we produced Joe Gomez and Karlan Grant without it. The question is what value would it add.
And Brentford make a fortune from selling players to the PL without even having an academy
The income they've made from Konsa and Watkins alone dwarfs what we've made from academy players
How much would it cost to complete the upgrade ? £5 million ? I really have no idea. I think if TS invested that amount he would see it returned many many times over in academy products over the 15 year lease. One Joe Gomez and a Karlan Grant would put you into clear profit. I think TS would be nuts not to achieve Cat 1
The operating costs of a Cat 1 academy are the issue, not the capital cost. They’re not sustainable in L1. You’d also struggle to make the business case for the difference between Cat 2 and Cat 1 against the cost - after all we produced Joe Gomez and Karlan Grant without it. The question is what value would it add.
Surprised by this response.
The facilities at SL aren't up to the standard now expected of a championship, let alone premier league club that TS wants us to be.
So even without the academy there is a dire need for work at SL.
But why would TS pay for developments at a ground he only rents?
IMHO I off TS wants to grow the club something has to be done about SL.
Personally, I think Cat 1 is essential for the club's future even if it's only needed in a few years time, which is how long it will take to build the new facilities anyway.
And that's ignoring all the essential maintenance needed at SL and at VFR.
How much would it cost to complete the upgrade ? £5 million ? I really have no idea. I think if TS invested that amount he would see it returned many many times over in academy products over the 15 year lease. One Joe Gomez and a Karlan Grant would put you into clear profit. I think TS would be nuts not to achieve Cat 1
The operating costs of a Cat 1 academy are the issue, not the capital cost. They’re not sustainable in L1. You’d also struggle to make the business case for the difference between Cat 2 and Cat 1 against the cost - after all we produced Joe Gomez and Karlan Grant without it. The question is what value would it add.
Surprised by this response.
The facilities at SL aren't up to the standard now expected of a championship, let alone premier league club that TS wants us to be.
So even without the academy there is a dire need for work at SL.
But why would TS pay for developments at a ground he only rents?
IMHO I off TS wants to grow the club something has to be done about SL.
Personally, I think Cat 1 is essential for the club's future even if it's only needed in a few years time, which is how long it will take to build the new facilities anyway.
And that's ignoring all the essential maintenance needed at SL and at VFR.
You don’t think investment should be based on a business case then? Clearly improvements to facilities are a “good thing” but capital works that bring revenue costs - specifically a category one academy - need to be assessed as a priority. Can the business support the compulsory additional staff costs that go with it? Would the extra cost be better spent in other areas - for example first team support staff? Is there a substantive benefit in terms of return on investment (harder to prove)?
Nobody has established a category one academy in L1 for a reason. It’s a perfectly reasonable ambition in the Championship and it might be a good thing to do. Personally I’ve always thought the recruitment and retention advantages are exaggerated, but I’m no expert. There’s no doubt some facilities at SL need updating, but that’s not the same thing.
Maintenance is a different issue and you'd expect it to fall within a commercial lease. There’s nothing remarkable about that.
Comments
From the OS:
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
Dismantled at a thoughtless stroke.
Just before RD bought the club Peter Varney published his plan for modernization of the Training ground (up to grade 1 status i believe?)
Costed at £10 million, with plans for a completely new building included. It was described as 'full funded' i believe with grants from multiple sources.
This plan was abandoned with great haste and reasons given were unconvincing. At one point they wanted to add a swimming pool? i believe.
So this regime abandoned a fully funded scheme, instead we have dug some drainage ditches and improved some pitches, some of which are for a rugby club.
Airman will be able to correct any of my mistakes i am sure.
One day it is to be hoped we find out where the A. Lookman money has gone.
That's the garden in full bloom , possibly in it's 1st year of the revamp, with the following one in the summer of 2015 being it's peak. The Red Robin hedging was well established & had bulked out considerably by then & the perennials at their best.
We thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of re establishing the area & tended it on a weekly basis during the growing season until we moved to Sussex that October, making its maintenance more difficult.
However, it was at this time that we were advised the Garden was to be dismantled in readiness for the work scheduled to start at SL but that the plants would be transported to Hadlow College to be tended there until a new site was agreed upon & that we would be involved in the decision making about this when the time came.....
Many thanks, B for sharing these lovely pics.
We know TS doesn't own SL (or the Valley) and it seems doesn't have an obligation to buy in five years or at the end of the new 15 year lease.
So where does that leave the development of Sparrows Lane?
Will it happen?
What will happen
When will it happen?
Who pays for it?
TS has mentioned the academy but without extensive development the club can't achieve Cat 1 status leaving us at a distinct disadvantage when recruiting and retaining young players. Palace were approved as a Cat 1 academy in July 2020 leaving us even further behind.
Even without aiming for Cat 1 status the facilities are old, tired and badly in need to renovation.
Yes, TS has only been here a week so not expecting a new trench to be dug today but very interested in the plans.
It shouldn't cost too much it's the valley that is the bulk of the cost.
Why would TSspend a few million or whatever doing up the training ground if Roland still owns it.
That wouldn't make sense but who knows
Personally I expect him to be secretly negotiating the purchase of both, and will announce it at some point as a complete surprise to everyone.
Cat 1 would be nice, but very expensive. Even with his financial backing, that would be a massive cost for a L1 club
I'm looking for football commentary during a football match, not birthday shout outs and hellos to people living all around the world.
Just imagine if the TV or radio commentators did it?
He is never going to accept less than what he was holding out for previously now he is getting 'multiples' of the £200K pa rent he was previously. There is a global recession upon us and interest rates cut to the bone, but with quantative easing we also have an asset bubble meaning no one can get a yield return on their money so RD will be very happy collecting a higher rent and sitting out the lease to pass on to his family.
TS is wealthy but not at the level needed to drop £40-50M cash on TV/SL so we will sit in a sort of hiatus with minimal capital expenditure on our assets unless we reach the PL and money becomes easy.
Let's just hope TS does not get bored in 2-3 years when he realizes the life of a tier 3 (or 2 if we are successful in promotion) is not that glamorous and the route to the PL is an exceptionally expensive one.
Would love to hear what TS has to say about SL and TV from an investment perspective as it may just help allay some of my fears.
@Henry Irving maybe a Bromley Addicks zoom call or similar whilst people can't actually meet easily...
The income they've made from Konsa and Watkins alone dwarfs what we've made from academy players
The facilities at SL aren't up to the standard now expected of a championship, let alone premier league club that TS wants us to be.
So even without the academy there is a dire need for work at SL.
But why would TS pay for developments at a ground he only rents?
IMHO I off TS wants to grow the club something has to be done about SL.
Personally, I think Cat 1 is essential for the club's future even if it's only needed in a few years time, which is how long it will take to build the new facilities anyway.
And that's ignoring all the essential maintenance needed at SL and at VFR.
Nobody has established a category one academy in L1 for a reason. It’s a perfectly reasonable ambition in the Championship and it might be a good thing to do. Personally I’ve always thought the recruitment and retention advantages are exaggerated, but I’m no expert. There’s no doubt some facilities at SL need updating, but that’s not the same thing.
Maintenance is a different issue and you'd expect it to fall within a commercial lease. There’s nothing remarkable about that.