People are taking their frustration of Phillips not playing out on Steer IMO.
Completely agree that Phillips should be playing, instead of getting in a loan every year. Rudd, Amos and now Steer.
Would much rather one of our boys was playing, however I really don't think Steer has been terrible.
So I half agree with the consensus. Phillips should be in goal, but not because Steer is poor. More because it's time for Phillips to step up and make the shirt his own for the next few years.
But it isn’t just who is good or not, a responsibility of a goalkeeper is to give the defenders who play in-front of him confidence - we looked like a more confident defence when Phillips was in goal.
People are taking their frustration of Phillips not playing out on Steer IMO.
Completely agree that Phillips should be playing, instead of getting in a loan every year. Rudd, Amos and now Steer.
Would much rather one of our boys was playing, however I really don't think Steer has been terrible.
So I half agree with the consensus. Phillips should be in goal, but not because Steer is poor. More because it's time for Phillips to step up and make the shirt his own for the next few years.
But it isn’t just who is good or not, a responsibility of a goalkeeper is to give the defenders who play in-front of him confidence - we looked like a more confident defence when Phillips was in goal.
Could this not be due to Bauer's injury?
Phillips seems more confident than Steer to me and a better shot stopper - I would have expected Dillon not to have let in so many goals.
I'm not seeing Steer growing in confidence and he was careless with his distribution yesterday. If he was going to be the next Amos then persevere otherwise stick with our keeper.
I think the reason Phillips seems to make more saves than steer is down to his positioning. In order to pull of a good save you have to be positioned correctly. Phillips is. When people say steer had no chance saving certain goals they have a point. But I think the reason he concedes some goals is down to his positioning. When Phillips was dropped I was hoping that steer was going to be an improvement. From what I have seen he is not. Both league one standard at the moment imo but I would rather we keep faith in Phillips as he is our player and not a loanee.
2nd yesterday Steer was centre of the goal. Ball nestled in net 2ft from middle and he didn't get a hand on it. Barely moved. Should have been off his line to cut down angle or punched. Seen better keepers in Sunday league. Steve Brown far superior.
I think the reason Phillips seems to make more saves than steer is down to his positioning. In order to pull of a good save you have to be positioned correctly. Phillips is. When people say steer had no chance saving certain goals they have a point. But I think the reason he concedes some goals is down to his positioning. When Phillips was dropped I was hoping that steer was going to be an improvement. From what I have seen he is not. Both league one standard at the moment imo but I would rather we keep faith in Phillips as he is our player and not a loanee.
Goalkeeping is all about positioning - the best keepers read the game. Even top keepers are guilty of poor positioning sometimes but they minimise their errors.
Steer played quite a few games at Huddersfield - would be interesting what their fans thought of him? I wonder how much injuries have affected him?
People are taking their frustration of Phillips not playing out on Steer IMO.
Completely agree that Phillips should be playing, instead of getting in a loan every year. Rudd, Amos and now Steer.
Would much rather one of our boys was playing, however I really don't think Steer has been terrible.
So I half agree with the consensus. Phillips should be in goal, but not because Steer is poor. More because it's time for Phillips to step up and make the shirt his own for the next few years.
But it isn’t just who is good or not, a responsibility of a goalkeeper is to give the defenders who play in-front of him confidence - we looked like a more confident defence when Phillips was in goal.
Could this not be due to Bauer's injury?
I definitely think it’s a big factor but the goalkeeper situation is also contributing.
Steer got away with one in the opening minutes, Pearce shielded the ball and Steer rushed out to get it but spilled it. Luckily the ref gave a free kick.
People are taking their frustration of Phillips not playing out on Steer IMO.
Completely agree that Phillips should be playing, instead of getting in a loan every year. Rudd, Amos and now Steer.
Would much rather one of our boys was playing, however I really don't think Steer has been terrible.
So I half agree with the consensus. Phillips should be in goal, but not because Steer is poor. More because it's time for Phillips to step up and make the shirt his own for the next few years.
But it isn’t just who is good or not, a responsibility of a goalkeeper is to give the defenders who play in-front of him confidence - we looked like a more confident defence when Phillips was in goal.
Could this not be due to Bauer's injury?
Phillips seems more confident than Steer to me and a better shot stopper - I would have expected Dillon not to have let in so many goals.
I'm not seeing Steer growing in confidence and he was careless with his distribution yesterday. If he was going to be the next Amos then persevere otherwise stick with our keeper.
Without doubt, Dillon is a better shot stopper but Bow's 'reason' for bringing in Steer was his better distribution. Certainly didn't see that yesterday. So the only reason for persisting with Steer could be down to the terms of his loan deal from Villa, as alluded to elsewhere on CL, I think by Airman Brown.
So does anyone agree with me that our goal conceding record was ok, under both Phillips and Steer ? We only started shipping goals when we were without 3 of our defenders/defensive cover. Namely Bielik, Bauer and Page. Page and no natural left back cover was the tipping point on top of both Bauer & Bielik being out.
Steer conceded -
Wycombe 2 Bradford 0 Plymouth 1 Luton 2 Scunthorpe 5 no Page Coventry 2 no Page
So does anyone agree with me that our goal conceding record was ok, under both Phillips and Steer ? We only started shipping goals when we were without 3 of our defenders/defensive cover. Namely Bielik, Bauer and Page. Page and no natural left back cover was the tipping point on top of both Bauer & Bielik being out.
Steer conceded -
Wycombe 2 Bradford 0 Plymouth 1 Luton 2 Scunthorpe 5 no Page Coventry 2 no Page
Funny that you could say the same about Phillips was Pearce not out for 4 games
Pearce was and Bielik didn't play at the start either. But Phillips didn't have Pearce, Bielik & Page out.
Like I say. I'm more than happy for Phillips to come back in. I just think the criticism of Steer is over the top.
The main reason Steer is getting criticised is that he's a loan keeper who doesn't appear to be any better than our own keeper. I always thought the criticism of Phillips was OTT.
If Steer is going to play instead of Phillips then I will be more than happy if he starts improving - Amos picked his game up last season and proved a lot of doubters wrong. Maybe injuries have affected Steer?
hopefully the result tonight will be a massive confidence booster for ALL those who took part .. Phillips needs more confidence .. It'll be very very interesting to see who Bowyer selects against a VERY good side in top form
Pearce was and Bielik didn't play at the start either. But Phillips didn't have Pearce, Bielik & Page out.
Like I say. I'm more than happy for Phillips to come back in. I just think the criticism of Steer is over the top.
Yes, agree with this.
I think Phillips is a better shot stopper, he's a very good shot stopper, that much has never been in doubt. And I agree Steer's positioning has been suspect on a couple of occasions, but I would argue the same about Phillips' (Sunderland goal springs to mind).
The thing is, at the top level it's about more than shot stopping. It's about aerial ability, decision making, how you are on the ball, concentration, etc., and for me Steer is ahead in those categories.
Phillips is a Charlton player and should be playing, end of.
THIS.
The only alternative is to keep playing Steer, who has allowed more goals per minute, all in sacrifice to his supposed "distribution" skills... and then lose Steer back to his original club and then ALSO lose DP at the end of his contract after years of development. Such a waste.
Pearce was and Bielik didn't play at the start either. But Phillips didn't have Pearce, Bielik & Page out.
Like I say. I'm more than happy for Phillips to come back in. I just think the criticism of Steer is over the top.
Yes, agree with this.
I think Phillips is a better shot stopper, he's a very good shot stopper, that much has never been in doubt. And I agree Steer's positioning has been suspect on a couple of occasions, but I would argue the same about Phillips' (Sunderland goal springs to mind).
The thing is, at the top level it's about more than shot stopping. It's about aerial ability, decision making, how you are on the ball, concentration, etc., and for me Steer is ahead in those categories.
Steer is not playing at the top level he's in L1. I've not seen much evidence of his decision marking and being good on the ball - he struggled to even take a proper goal kick on Saturday.
The primary aim of a keeper is to stop the ball going in the net and this relies on anticipation/good positioning - I don't see Steer beating Phillips in the key area. Doing an impersonation of Beckenbauer with the ball at your feet is more of a concern if you're playing at Man City.
I don't think having a 'sweeper keeper' should be a major concern in L1.
Pearce was and Bielik didn't play at the start either. But Phillips didn't have Pearce, Bielik & Page out.
Like I say. I'm more than happy for Phillips to come back in. I just think the criticism of Steer is over the top.
Yes, agree with this.
I think Phillips is a better shot stopper, he's a very good shot stopper, that much has never been in doubt. And I agree Steer's positioning has been suspect on a couple of occasions, but I would argue the same about Phillips' (Sunderland goal springs to mind).
The thing is, at the top level it's about more than shot stopping. It's about aerial ability, decision making, how you are on the ball, concentration, etc., and for me Steer is ahead in those categories.
This definitely isn’t the top level. And the reason it’s “about more than shot stopping” at the top level is because shot stopping is a given there.
The absolute pre-requisite for a goal keeper is that they stop shots, all the other stuff can come afterwards.
I have just been reading an article in today's Times by the Columnist Danny Finkelstein about 'solution aversion ' in politics ie how people have a preconceived view and then ignore facts which go against their prejudice . I feel there is an echo of that in this debate .
Some Dillon critics will point to soft goals against Sunderland and Southend whilst Jed's detractors will talk about nine goals conceded in three games , much in the same ways as many complained about Amos at Plymouth last season .
Both men are out of contract at the end of the season , so they are playing for their future . Steer is technically a loanee , but I can't see Villa wanting to keep him . Therefore the debate should be about the respective players and not the loanee V our player .
My view was that Dillon is unlucky to be dropped , but having made that decision I feel Steer needs a bit more time much in the way Amos did .
I find the goalkeeping distribution debate fascinating . I recently spoke to the ex Charlton goalkeeper Tony Lange . I asked him about his influences and one of his answers surprised me . It was the ex Chelsea and Wales keeper John Phillips who Tony replaced as Nicky Johns's cover for the Addicks in the early eighties .
Apparently the reason Phillips played almost 150 games and was first choice over Peter Bonetti for the Blues at times in the 1970's was that the quality of his distribution suited the style of play . So even then it was a factor in those far off days even before the back pass rule change .
I have just been reading an article in today's Times by the Columnist Danny Finkelstein about 'solution aversion ' in politics ie how people have a preconceived view and then ignore facts which go against their prejudice . I feel there is an echo of that in this debate .
Some Dillon critics will point to soft goals against Sunderland and Southend whilst Jed's detractors will talk about nine goals conceded in three games , much in the same ways as many complained about Amos at Plymouth last season .
Both men are out of contract at the end of the season , so they are playing for their future . Steer is technically a loanee , but I can't see Villa wanting to keep him . Therefore the debate should be about the respective players and not the loanee V our player .
My view was that Dillon is unlucky to be dropped , but having made that decision I feel Steer needs a bit more time much in the way Amos did .
I find the goalkeeping distribution debate fascinating . I recently spoke to the ex Charlton goalkeeper Tony Lange . I asked him about his influences and one of his answers surprised me . It was the ex Chelsea and Wales keeper John Phillips who Tony replaced as Nicky Johns's cover for the Addicks in the early eighties .
Apparently the reason Phillips played almost 150 games and was first choice over Peter Bonetti for the Blues at times in the 1970's was that the quality of his distribution suited the style of play . So even then it was a factor in those far of days even before the back pass rule change .
Not seeing much evidence of the quality of Steer up to now and however much time we give him he seems unlikely to get to the level of Amos. Bowyer seems willing to cut Steer more slack than Phillips and the reason for that remains a mystery.
Every keeper lets goals in they could have saved - anticipation and positioning govern this. The best keepers minimise this - you could criticise every keeper on earth if you compile a video of goals they could have saved.
Phillips seems a more commanding and confident keeper and a better shot stopper. He has made mistakes but so does every keeper including Steer. I'm disappointed in the way he was dropped and it will be interesting to see how the season pans out for Steer.
Much has been made of Steer's distribution but tbh it hasn't really impressed.
Isnt a scapegoat its the inability to understand why Steer is being picked over Phillips when the stats speak for themselves, seeing that both players have now played the exact same amount of games
For those adamant that it's only stats that count and we should not take into account other relevent factors like Bauer, Bielik and Page being out injured.
I note that the stats show on Phillips return to first team action he was rated our worst player on the stat bank !
Only joshing, but it does illustrate that one shouldn't rely on stats alone. Like I've said I'm happy for Phillips to stay in the team.
If a home grown striker scored 8 in 6 games and was dropped for a loan who scores 1 in the next 6 games it would be criminal if he wasn't back in the squad.
If a home grown striker scored 8 in 6 games and was dropped for a loan who scores 1 in the next 6 games it would be criminal if he wasn't back in the squad.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the Phillips/Steer deabte.
I don't see much between them but I noticed that Bowyer praised Phillips for his distribution after the Stevenage game - paving the way for him to come back into the side in the league perhaps?
All this steer should be given a decent run in the team. When has this happened for Phillips.
I think Steer was bought in on loan to be No1 and Bowyer wants to give him a decent run in the side. If Bowyer thought more highly of Phillips maybe things would have been different?
Comments
I'm not seeing Steer growing in confidence and he was careless with his distribution yesterday. If he was going to be the next Amos then persevere otherwise stick with our keeper.
In order to pull of a good save you have to be positioned correctly.
Phillips is.
When people say steer had no chance saving certain goals they have a point.
But I think the reason he concedes some goals is down to his positioning.
When Phillips was dropped I was hoping that steer was going to be an improvement.
From what I have seen he is not.
Both league one standard at the moment imo but I would rather we keep faith in Phillips as he is our player and not a loanee.
Steer played quite a few games at Huddersfield - would be interesting what their fans thought of him? I wonder how much injuries have affected him?
I can remember on a number of occasion saying what a save by Phillips and I cant remember saying that once about Steer
We only started shipping goals when we were without 3 of our defenders/defensive cover.
Namely Bielik, Bauer and Page.
Page and no natural left back cover was the tipping point on top of both Bauer & Bielik being out.
Steer conceded -
Wycombe 2
Bradford 0
Plymouth 1
Luton 2
Scunthorpe 5 no Page
Coventry 2 no Page
But Phillips didn't have Pearce, Bielik & Page out.
Like I say. I'm more than happy for Phillips to come back in.
I just think the criticism of Steer is over the top.
If Steer is going to play instead of Phillips then I will be more than happy if he starts improving - Amos picked his game up last season and proved a lot of doubters wrong. Maybe injuries have affected Steer?
Fingers crossed Phillips gets moved into the side to replace Steer who has conceded 8 in the last 3 games.
I think Phillips is a better shot stopper, he's a very good shot stopper, that much has never been in doubt. And I agree Steer's positioning has been suspect on a couple of occasions, but I would argue the same about Phillips' (Sunderland goal springs to mind).
The thing is, at the top level it's about more than shot stopping. It's about aerial ability, decision making, how you are on the ball, concentration, etc., and for me Steer is ahead in those categories.
The only alternative is to keep playing Steer, who has allowed more goals per minute, all in sacrifice to his supposed "distribution" skills... and then lose Steer back to his original club and then ALSO lose DP at the end of his contract after years of development. Such a waste.
The primary aim of a keeper is to stop the ball going in the net and this relies on anticipation/good positioning - I don't see Steer beating Phillips in the key area. Doing an impersonation of Beckenbauer with the ball at your feet is more of a concern if you're playing at Man City.
I don't think having a 'sweeper keeper' should be a major concern in L1.
The absolute pre-requisite for a goal keeper is that they stop shots, all the other stuff can come afterwards.
Some Dillon critics will point to soft goals against Sunderland and Southend whilst Jed's detractors will talk about nine goals conceded in three games , much in the same ways as many complained about Amos at Plymouth last season .
Both men are out of contract at the end of the season , so they are playing for their future . Steer is technically a loanee , but I can't see Villa wanting to keep him . Therefore the debate should be about the respective players and not the loanee V our player .
My view was that Dillon is unlucky to be dropped , but having made that decision I feel Steer needs a bit more time much in the way Amos did .
I find the goalkeeping distribution debate fascinating . I recently spoke to the ex Charlton goalkeeper Tony Lange . I asked him about his influences and one of his answers surprised me . It was the ex Chelsea and Wales keeper John Phillips who Tony replaced as Nicky Johns's cover for the Addicks in the early eighties .
Apparently the reason Phillips played almost 150 games and was first choice over Peter Bonetti for the Blues at times in the 1970's was that the quality of his distribution suited the style of play . So even then it was a factor in those far off days even before the back pass rule change .
Every keeper lets goals in they could have saved - anticipation and positioning govern this. The best keepers minimise this - you could criticise every keeper on earth if you compile a video of goals they could have saved.
Phillips seems a more commanding and confident keeper and a better shot stopper. He has made mistakes but so does every keeper including Steer. I'm disappointed in the way he was dropped and it will be interesting to see how the season pans out for Steer.
Much has been made of Steer's distribution but tbh it hasn't really impressed.
Would be interesting to know Bowyer's views?
I note that the stats show on Phillips return to first team action he was rated our worst player on the stat bank !
Only joshing, but it does illustrate that one shouldn't rely on stats alone.
Like I've said I'm happy for Phillips to stay in the team.
When has this happened for Phillips.