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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • Right, that’s Muttley v Rob7lee going in my survivor series greatest CL feuds along with Greenie v Kentaddick just need 2 more pairs
  • I am not against higher taxes per se for those on higher incomes.

    However, if I lived in the UK I certainly would be worried about a bunch of student politicians such as Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott getting their hands on the extra lucre.

    It’d be like giving football club to a mad Belgian.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
  • edited September 2018
    .
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    Good to see you are making progress on that.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
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  • Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    Impinge with industrial action, that irritates the Tories.
  • seth plum said:

    Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    Impinge with industrial action, that irritates the Tories.
    And anything that irritates the Tories has been scientifically proven to be a good thing.
  • Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    I think you are wrong, thats just like saying at the other end of the spectrum anyone claiming any sort of benefit and living in a council house must be a lazy, sponging so and so, nether are even remotely true other than in very rare occasions. A bit like saying all self employed people don't pay their share of tax, i'm sure some don't, but many will.

    In my experience I can count on one hand people who think like you describe v's 100's of others who don't. Even then I don't think i've ever met anyone other than maybe one person, who wouldn't be concerned about crime/police etc, NHS (just because you have BUPA or similar doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack or many other health issues and need to go into the NHS).

    You may be a little nearer the mark on education, in that I doubt state school is highest on the list of concerns for some who send their children to Private school, but then i've known plenty of less well off people without children who think they shouldn't have to fund schools at all or things like child benefit as they've never had kids and never will so why should they pay. That said where I work there must be 15-20 people (so around 5%) who are school governors at state schools, the vast majority send their children private. There is also a group who go into schools in Tower Hamlet for reading assistance every other Friday, I could list many things like that.

    I wouldn't tar every person who is highly paid as uncaring, IMHO and experience it's simply not true and very wide of the mark bar the odd exception.

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
    You can't avoid paying tax (unless it seems you are mega rich popstars, footballers, actors etc that pay someone a fortune to come up with some fancy scheme) pretty much everyone else pays what is due, but nothing wrong with anyone managing their tax affairs and taking advantage of what allowances they are legally able to.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    I think you are wrong, thats just like saying at the other end of the spectrum anyone claiming any sort of benefit and living in a council house must be a lazy, sponging so and so, nether are even remotely true other than in very rare occasions. A bit like saying all self employed people don't pay their share of tax, i'm sure some don't, but many will.

    In my experience I can count on one hand people who think like you describe v's 100's of others who don't. Even then I don't think i've ever met anyone other than maybe one person, who wouldn't be concerned about crime/police etc, NHS (just because you have BUPA or similar doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack or many other health issues and need to go into the NHS).

    You may be a little nearer the mark on education, in that I doubt state school is highest on the list of concerns for some who send their children to Private school, but then i've known plenty of less well off people without children who think they shouldn't have to fund schools at all or things like child benefit as they've never had kids and never will so why should they pay. That said where I work there must be 15-20 people (so around 5%) who are school governors at state schools, the vast majority send their children private. There is also a group who go into schools in Tower Hamlet for reading assistance every other Friday, I could list many things like that.

    I wouldn't tar every person who is highly paid as uncaring, IMHO and experience it's simply not true and very wide of the mark bar the odd exception.

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
    You can't avoid paying tax (unless it seems you are mega rich popstars, footballers, actors etc that pay someone a fortune to come up with some fancy scheme) pretty much everyone else pays what is due, but nothing wrong with anyone managing their tax affairs and taking advantage of what allowances they are legally able to.
    Semantics.

    Avoid/manage/play the system. All essentially the same.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    I think you are wrong, thats just like saying at the other end of the spectrum anyone claiming any sort of benefit and living in a council house must be a lazy, sponging so and so, nether are even remotely true other than in very rare occasions. A bit like saying all self employed people don't pay their share of tax, i'm sure some don't, but many will.

    In my experience I can count on one hand people who think like you describe v's 100's of others who don't. Even then I don't think i've ever met anyone other than maybe one person, who wouldn't be concerned about crime/police etc, NHS (just because you have BUPA or similar doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack or many other health issues and need to go into the NHS).

    You may be a little nearer the mark on education, in that I doubt state school is highest on the list of concerns for some who send their children to Private school, but then i've known plenty of less well off people without children who think they shouldn't have to fund schools at all or things like child benefit as they've never had kids and never will so why should they pay. That said where I work there must be 15-20 people (so around 5%) who are school governors at state schools, the vast majority send their children private. There is also a group who go into schools in Tower Hamlet for reading assistance every other Friday, I could list many things like that.

    I wouldn't tar every person who is highly paid as uncaring, IMHO and experience it's simply not true and very wide of the mark bar the odd exception.

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
    You can't avoid paying tax (unless it seems you are mega rich popstars, footballers, actors etc that pay someone a fortune to come up with some fancy scheme) pretty much everyone else pays what is due, but nothing wrong with anyone managing their tax affairs and taking advantage of what allowances they are legally able to.
    Semantics.

    Avoid/manage/play the system. All essentially the same.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmR5aun7WqY
  • edited September 2018

    Rob7Lee said:

    Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    I think you are wrong, thats just like saying at the other end of the spectrum anyone claiming any sort of benefit and living in a council house must be a lazy, sponging so and so, nether are even remotely true other than in very rare occasions. A bit like saying all self employed people don't pay their share of tax, i'm sure some don't, but many will.

    In my experience I can count on one hand people who think like you describe v's 100's of others who don't. Even then I don't think i've ever met anyone other than maybe one person, who wouldn't be concerned about crime/police etc, NHS (just because you have BUPA or similar doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack or many other health issues and need to go into the NHS).

    You may be a little nearer the mark on education, in that I doubt state school is highest on the list of concerns for some who send their children to Private school, but then i've known plenty of less well off people without children who think they shouldn't have to fund schools at all or things like child benefit as they've never had kids and never will so why should they pay. That said where I work there must be 15-20 people (so around 5%) who are school governors at state schools, the vast majority send their children private. There is also a group who go into schools in Tower Hamlet for reading assistance every other Friday, I could list many things like that.

    I wouldn't tar every person who is highly paid as uncaring, IMHO and experience it's simply not true and very wide of the mark bar the odd exception.

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
    You can't avoid paying tax (unless it seems you are mega rich popstars, footballers, actors etc that pay someone a fortune to come up with some fancy scheme) pretty much everyone else pays what is due, but nothing wrong with anyone managing their tax affairs and taking advantage of what allowances they are legally able to.
    Semantics.

    Avoid/manage/play the system. All essentially the same.
    Of course it's not essentially the same. Theres a big difference (in law for one) between someone managing their financial affairs from a tax perspective which might mean paying into a pension, an ISA, premium bonds, friendly society or giving money to charity compared to someone investing in a tax avoidance film scheme.
  • The Festival of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...

    Not content with dragging the country back to the 1950s the tories now want to drag us back to the 1850s. Ideal job for Mogg though :smiley:
  • Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Some do. Many don't.

    If you have more than enough money to send your children to Private School, Have private health care and live in a leafy suburb or well heeled part of town I just doubt that things like the NHS, education, the prison service, street crime really feature high on a list of your concerns. They are just things that you feel irritated for having to pay for because they don’t concern you. Not saying that’s everyone with more than enough money but it’s a lot.

    If crime and poverty really started to impinge on their day to day life you can bet that more would be done to sort it out.

    I think you are wrong, thats just like saying at the other end of the spectrum anyone claiming any sort of benefit and living in a council house must be a lazy, sponging so and so, nether are even remotely true other than in very rare occasions. A bit like saying all self employed people don't pay their share of tax, i'm sure some don't, but many will.

    In my experience I can count on one hand people who think like you describe v's 100's of others who don't. Even then I don't think i've ever met anyone other than maybe one person, who wouldn't be concerned about crime/police etc, NHS (just because you have BUPA or similar doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack or many other health issues and need to go into the NHS).

    You may be a little nearer the mark on education, in that I doubt state school is highest on the list of concerns for some who send their children to Private school, but then i've known plenty of less well off people without children who think they shouldn't have to fund schools at all or things like child benefit as they've never had kids and never will so why should they pay. That said where I work there must be 15-20 people (so around 5%) who are school governors at state schools, the vast majority send their children private. There is also a group who go into schools in Tower Hamlet for reading assistance every other Friday, I could list many things like that.

    I wouldn't tar every person who is highly paid as uncaring, IMHO and experience it's simply not true and very wide of the mark bar the odd exception.

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    You can go on all you like - It is a wonder you are not prime minister. What does what you have written prove outside of a limited sphere?

    I gave an example as to how the increased taxation would have effected people on under 80k that you said wouldn't;

    "The vast majority of voters will be no worse off, so those that will be (and some of those wont be much worse off) have a harder job scaring them that they will. But good luck trying to those that wish to"

    Now it's only a limited sphere :neutral:

    Rob7Lee said:


    It muddles it up a little bit, but I think there should be turnover tax applied to companies in the million + a year range. Say 5-10%. It would stop companies like Facebook and google and Apple being able to get away with paying corporation tax in the few thousands when they make millions from the U.K. every year, whilst simultaneously keeping Corp tax low for smaller businesses.

    I also think the Lib Dem idea of merging capital gains and dividends tax (a pointlessly complicated tax) into income tax and shifting up the personal allowance even further. Gives working people a bit of a tax cut whilst also getting a little extra from dividends and capital gains.

    Turnover tax would never work for many companies, a high turnover doesn't necessarily mean a profit. It would push them into loss (or a further loss), many companies can only dream of a 5-10% profit currently. How you'd levy it on only companies like tax avoiding Google I don't know.

    I've long been an advocate of upping the personal allowance as the Tories have done since they came back to Government. It's an easy win, the vast majority of people will spend it, a lot on goods with VAT so the tax take remains almost the same but the individual feels much better off and stimulates the wider economy.

    It wasn't their policy, it was the lib-dems. I thought the Tories only contribution was to delay the implementation.

    Which one, the increased tax allowance? I don't know whose policy it was, but it's gone up every year since the coalition formed and every year since the coalition ended and the government was just the tories. Getting towards double what it was in 09/10

    2010-11 6,475
    2011-12 7,475
    2012-13 8,105
    2013-14 9,440
    2014-15 10,000
    2015-16 10,600
    2016-17 11,000
    2017-18 11,500
    2018-19 11,850
    It was meant to be that level at the end of the coalition. So the previous government, made up of tories, only delayed it.

    I don't like giving the lib dems much credit as I feel they betrayed my vote but it was about the only thing they achieved. But when you try to portray the conservatives as for the low earners it is quite important which party had the idea.

    Sure, at least with the lib dems idea and pushing them on and since they've continued to keep raising it. I'd like to see it at least at a level where no one on minimum wage which is about 14,250 and probably a % above it pays any tax (inc NI).

    I don't think the Tories are 'for the low earners', but on taxation they have it broadly right, just needs to start a bit higher and everyone pay a little more (proportionately before I get jumped on :smiley: ) - lib dems again - 1p on all bands.

    In your opinion.
    of course, many will have a different view, although I know you secretly agree :wink:
    If only I was wealthy enough to not have to worry about other people!
    Of course, as any one who’s wealthy (whatever that is) can’t worry about other people.... :blush:
    And worrying about how people can avoid paying taxes when earning over £80k does not count. Smiley/winky thing.
    You can't avoid paying tax (unless it seems you are mega rich popstars, footballers, actors etc that pay someone a fortune to come up with some fancy scheme) pretty much everyone else pays what is due, but nothing wrong with anyone managing their tax affairs and taking advantage of what allowances they are legally able to.
    Semantics.

    Avoid/manage/play the system. All essentially the same.
    Of course it's not essentially the same. Theres a big difference (in law for one) between someone managing their financial affairs from a tax perspective which might mean paying into a pension, an ISA, premium bonds, friendly society or giving money to charity compared to someone investing in a tax avoidance film scheme.
    Oh yes it is.
  • There are some tax efficiencies that you have to say are good. Pensions is the obvious one. The rest are on the whole pretty indefensible. Large corporations moving money and tax bases about using the system to pay as little tax as they can. Do I blame them ? A little. It’s morally if not legally wrong. The real culprits here though are the governments that have allowed this unfair set of tax rules to exist and persist. If it was people claiming benefits who were able to “cheat” the system they would be all over it like a rash. It’s not. It’s the rich and powerful and it stinks.
  • Heard Abbott say summin about "response times to 99 calls", is that a cut back by the Labour Party?
  • Sponsored links:


  • Heard Abbott say summin about "response times to 99 calls", is that a cut back by the Labour Party?

    No but the police sirens will have to be replaced by Greensleeves.
  • Heard Abbott say summin about "response times to 99 calls", is that a cut back by the Labour Party?

    Dropping one of the nines is what in political terms is called an efficiency.

  • If we got rid of all the poor, the elderly and the infirm from the UK that should help post Brexit. I'm going to suggest it to Boris.


  • If we got rid of all the poor, the elderly and the infirm from the UK that should help post Brexit. I'm going to suggest it to Boris.

    Dont bother. The tories have been working on this for years.

    Yeah, they're eating them behind the scenes at their party conference.

    Evil bastards.

    I'm almost as bad, I've got an ISA.


  • If we got rid of all the poor, the elderly and the infirm from the UK that should help post Brexit. I'm going to suggest it to Boris.

    Dont bother. The tories have been working on this for years.

    Yeah, they're eating them behind the scenes at their party conference.

    Evil bastards.

    I'm almost as bad, I've got an ISA.
    Almost ?

    ;0)

  • Does anyone know what Labour's policies are regarding looking after the elderly?
  • Heard Abbott say summin about "response times to 99 calls", is that a cut back by the Labour Party?

    Dropping one of the nines is what in political terms is called an efficiency.

    Some people will be known as flake instead of snow flake.
  • For a thread dedicated to helping the Conservative and Unionist party maintain power there are narf a lot of left wing irks on here!

This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!