Blimey, spend a day in meetings and the Tory thread has gone all religious! @Cordoban Addick is going to flip!
After spending my childhood in a CofE school and Sunday school I'm very much an atheist, to me the bibles a book no different to the Harry Potter series. Some of the ten commandments are OK, especially the one about the neighbours wife - but you should see her
You'll never prove God does or doesn't exist. Although maybe, just maybe, if we go to the Gavin Peacock do he may have the answers......
Back slightly on topic - so house prices could fall 35% on a no deal Brexit - I knew Brexit was a good idea! Go Tories!!
But it is on topic really - how do the tories need to change. Well, they should tax the churches and (while QEII would go apeshit,) the 26 CoE bishops should be kicked out of the House of Lords as well.
And all the Lords, and whilst we are at it they could dismantle the monarchy and abolish the peerage system.
Blimey, spend a day in meetings and the Tory thread has gone all religious! @Cordoban Addick is going to flip!
After spending my childhood in a CofE school and Sunday school I'm very much an atheist, to me the bibles a book no different to the Harry Potter series. Some of the ten commandments are OK, especially the one about the neighbours wife - but you should see her
You'll never prove God does or doesn't exist. Although maybe, just maybe, if we go to the Gavin Peacock do he may have the answers......
Back slightly on topic - so house prices could fall 35% on a no deal Brexit - I knew Brexit was a good idea! Go Tories!!
But it is on topic really - how do the tories need to change. Well, they should tax the churches and (while QEII would go apeshit,) the 26 CoE bishops should be kicked out of the House of Lords as well.
And all the Lords, and whilst we are at it they could dismantle the monarchy and abolish the peerage system.
I would probably vote for them then.
The house of lords is genrally a force of good. The rules surrounding it defintely need updating like removing the bishops and hereditary peers. But they provide the checks and balances and alter a lot of ill thought out bills.
There needs to be a credible second house and the idea that they are protected from the pressures of election is no bad thing. Look at the US Senate now to see what we don't want.
Blimey, spend a day in meetings and the Tory thread has gone all religious! @Cordoban Addick is going to flip!
After spending my childhood in a CofE school and Sunday school I'm very much an atheist, to me the bibles a book no different to the Harry Potter series. Some of the ten commandments are OK, especially the one about the neighbours wife - but you should see her
You'll never prove God does or doesn't exist. Although maybe, just maybe, if we go to the Gavin Peacock do he may have the answers......
Back slightly on topic - so house prices could fall 35% on a no deal Brexit - I knew Brexit was a good idea! Go Tories!!
But it is on topic really - how do the tories need to change. Well, they should tax the churches and (while QEII would go apeshit,) the 26 CoE bishops should be kicked out of the House of Lords as well.
And all the Lords, and whilst we are at it they could dismantle the monarchy and abolish the peerage system.
I would probably vote for them then.
The house of lords is genrally a force of good. The rules surrounding it defintely need updating like removing the bishops and hereditary peers. But they provide the checks and balances and alter a lot of ill thought out bills.
There needs to be a credible second house and the idea that they are protected from the pressures of election is no bad thing. Look at the US Senate now to see what we don't want.
Credible second house yes. Lords, peers and religious appointments no.
Being an agnostic means to me that you respect other people's beliefs and appreciate that there are things you don't know. That is not fence sitting. I don't believe in a god, but would be open to evidence there was. In whatever form that god took.
Bear in mind that there are roughly 3000 gods to choose from, none of which have ever been proved to exist.
Being agnostic has noting to do with being respectful and everything to do with fence sitting. If something has never been proved and will never be proved then there is absolutely no reason to give credence to those that believe.
The absence of God hasn’t been proven ?
Nor has the absence of fairies at the bottom of my garden.
It’s just a hunch, but I’m guessing that hypothesis may have been subject to a little less scrutiny
Being an agnostic means to me that you respect other people's beliefs and appreciate that there are things you don't know. That is not fence sitting. I don't believe in a god, but would be open to evidence there was. In whatever form that god took.
Bear in mind that there are roughly 3000 gods to choose from, none of which have ever been proved to exist.
Being agnostic has noting to do with being respectful and everything to do with fence sitting. If something has never been proved and will never be proved then there is absolutely no reason to give credence to those that believe.
The absence of God hasn’t been proven ?
Isn't the burden of proof on believers to provide evidence of existence?
It’s said one can’t prove a negative and I have some sympathy with that; however by definition believing in God is a matter of faith. Although one could argue there is no absolute evidence of God believers would argue that there is lots of evidence that added together would lead a reasonable person to conclude there is a likelihood of a higher power or God
Can somebody enlighten me as to what the Bishops do that is so bad in the Lords?
Its not that they do anything particularly bad. Its a question of their right to be involved in government solely based on being a member of the clergy.
Being an agnostic means to me that you respect other people's beliefs and appreciate that there are things you don't know. That is not fence sitting. I don't believe in a god, but would be open to evidence there was. In whatever form that god took.
Bear in mind that there are roughly 3000 gods to choose from, none of which have ever been proved to exist.
Being agnostic has noting to do with being respectful and everything to do with fence sitting. If something has never been proved and will never be proved then there is absolutely no reason to give credence to those that believe.
The absence of God hasn’t been proven ?
Isn't the burden of proof on believers to provide evidence of existence?
It’s said one can’t prove a negative and I have some sympathy with that; however by definition believing in God is a matter of faith. Although one could argue there is no absolute evidence of God believers would argue that there is lots of evidence that added together would lead a reasonable person to conclude there is a likelihood of a higher power or God
Could you give some evidence that isn't based on faith? Faith by definition isn't evidence and believers (again by definition) are going to believe no matter what (see Trump's base).
Might be worth opening another thread on it as much as I am interested I don't want to detract from 'How the Tories need to change'.
Can somebody enlighten me as to what the Bishops do that is so bad in the Lords?
Its not that they do anything particularly bad. Its a question of their right to be involved in government solely based on being a member of the clergy.
You could say that about most in an unelected chamber though can't you - rather than just picking on one section of it!
Can somebody enlighten me as to what the Bishops do that is so bad in the Lords?
Its not that they do anything particularly bad. Its a question of their right to be involved in government solely based on being a member of the clergy.
You could say that about most in an unelected chamber though can't you - rather than just picking on one section of it!
Do the others devote their lives to a fairytale the average 10 year old could see through?
house of lords should be appointment only, no one from the clergy (except within reason eg the church some how produces a world renowned philosopher) and no body should hold a seat because of what family they were born into. It should be filled with the best british minds and most successful business people. That's how you keep the government's laws in check
Having an elected second house is a road to ruin (look at the clusterfuck of the US system).
In fact, if you watch debates in the house of lords they are exactly what "the public" supposedly want; respectful, balanced and quiet debate rather than the bluster peacocking and grandstanding in the commons.
house of lords should be appointment only, no one from the clergy (except within reason eg the church some how produces a world renowned philosopher) and no body should hold a seat because of what family they were born into. It should be filled with the best british minds and most successful business people. That's how you keep the government's laws in check
Having an elected second house is a road to ruin (look at the clusterfuck of the US system).
In fact, if you watch debates in the house of lords they are exactly what "the public" supposedly want; respectful, balanced and quiet debate rather than the bluster peacocking and grandstanding in the commons.
I note, without comment, that Karren Brady is allowed to vote on issues that affect our lives in the House of Lords.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
^^^that's what Conservative HQ have to say!
all this anti semitism in the tory party nonsense is just a smear because the left and remoaners are scared that the tories will make a success of brexit and that their generations of lies to the british people will be exposed and that brexit is the best way forward for a fairer society. It's a problem with society anyway.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
^^^that's what Conservative HQ have to say!
all this anti semitism in the tory party nonsense is just a smear because the left and remoaners are scared that the tories will make a success of brexit and that their generations of lies to the british people will be exposed and that brexit is the best way forward for a fairer society. It's a problem with society anyway.
Also palestine...
I am definitely a remoaner, and I am completely unafraid that the Tories will make a success of brexit, and I wouldn't have to invoke any demon or smear against the Tories to ensure they don't either.
My reasons are that:
There is absolutely no definition as to what 'success' might be. There may be some kind of technical actuality of brexit, so if whatever that is happens, it might be termed a success under one definition whatever consequences might follow. However 'success' in terms of there being anything good or positive to come from brexit whether the Tories or Labour bring it in will not withstand any objective measure, it will merely be a matter of opinion. It certainly won't be the 'best way forward for a fairer society' because the words 'best', 'forward', 'fairer' and 'society' are not fixed or agreed concepts, and once again it will be a matter of mere opinion.
I am not at all 'scared' of the opinions of others.
I am interested in the practical solutions suggested by others, in particular the brexit victors, such solutions are thin to invisible on the ground, however I am intrigued to hear about the Tory brexit (does it count as a success?) story in having scores of portaloos ready on standby for deployment on the M2 and M20. I hope that practical step is the first of the hundreds we will need to be told about.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
^^^that's what Conservative HQ have to say!
all this anti semitism in the tory party nonsense is just a smear because the left and remoaners are scared that the tories will make a success of brexit and that their generations of lies to the british people will be exposed and that brexit is the best way forward for a fairer society. It's a problem with society anyway.
Also palestine...
Good to see you can link those two separate things. Not sure how but you have. I do think you might want to check out the story behind this story though. It would appear to me that you dont know whst im referring to.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
^^^that's what Conservative HQ have to say!
all this anti semitism in the tory party nonsense is just a smear because the left and remoaners are scared that the tories will make a success of brexit and that their generations of lies to the british people will be exposed and that brexit is the best way forward for a fairer society. It's a problem with society anyway.
Also palestine...
I am definitely a remoaner, and I am completely unafraid that the Tories will make a success of brexit, and I wouldn't have to invoke any demon or smear against the Tories to ensure they don't either.
My reasons are that:
There is absolutely no definition as to what 'success' might be. There may be some kind of technical actuality of brexit, so if whatever that is happens, it might be termed a success under one definition whatever consequences might follow. However 'success' in terms of there being anything good or positive to come from brexit whether the Tories or Labour bring it in will not withstand any objective measure, it will merely be a matter of opinion. It certainly won't be the 'best way forward for a fairer society' because the words 'best', 'forward', 'fairer' and 'society' are not fixed or agreed concepts, and once again it will be a matter of mere opinion.
I am not at all 'scared' of the opinions of others.
I am interested in the practical solutions suggested by others, in particular the brexit victors, such solutions are thin to invisible on the ground, however I am intrigued to hear about the Tory brexit (does it count as a success?) story in having scores of portaloos ready on standby for deployment on the M2 and M20. I hope that practical step is the first of the hundreds we will need to be told about.
Anti semitism has arrived at the Tories door. Let’s see how the press runs with it and what Conservative HQ has to say.
watch the usual suspects fall over themselves saying how anti semitism in any form is a disgrace, but turn a blind eye to corbyn's AS enabling behaviour and limp wristed response to criticisms.
^^^that's what Conservative HQ have to say!
all this anti semitism in the tory party nonsense is just a smear because the left and remoaners are scared that the tories will make a success of brexit and that their generations of lies to the british people will be exposed and that brexit is the best way forward for a fairer society. It's a problem with society anyway.
Also palestine...
Good to see you can link those two separate things. Not sure how but you have. I do think you might want to check out the story behind this story though. It would appear to me that you dont know whst im referring to.
Has there ever been a more incompetent minister than Chris Grayling? Everything he touches turns to shit, how is he still in a job. His CV runs from Universal Credit, through prisons and probation all the way to railways.
Has there ever been a more incompetent minister than Chris Grayling? Everything he touches turns to shit, how is he still in a job. His CV runs from Universal Credit, through prisons and probation all the way to railways.
According to Survation, the only polling company to get the election right, Labour have a 4 point lead. It is too close to call. And I keep saying it, but Labour only have to do slightly better for Corbyn to be Prime Minisster. Not slightly better than Tories, but slightly better than they did at the last election.
Has there ever been a more incompetent minister than Chris Grayling? Everything he touches turns to shit, how is he still in a job. His CV runs from Universal Credit, through prisons and probation all the way to railways.
He’s a brown nose. That’s why.
He must have his head, neck and shoulders up somebody's arse to stay in work.
According to Survation, the only polling company to get the election right, Labour have a 4 point lead. It is too close to call. And I keep saying it, but Labour only have to do slightly better for Corbyn to be Prime Minisster. Not slightly better than Tories, but slightly better than they did at the last election.
Survations latest Poll that I can see (8th Sep) has Tories 1 point ahead. Personally I think Labour under Corbyn peaked just after the last election and he's not getting any younger or his policies anymore popular. Time will tell and the boundary changes and re/de-selection may have an impact one way or the other.
We'll have a better idea over the next 18 months when Brexit and everything else starts to play out. I think Labour could lose a lot of popular MP's which may not be good for them. They are in danger of becoming a party of Corbyn's from 5 years ago which won't be good for the country or the party.
Has there ever been a more incompetent minister than Chris Grayling? Everything he touches turns to shit, how is he still in a job. His CV runs from Universal Credit, through prisons and probation all the way to railways.
He’s a brown nose. That’s why.
He must have his head, neck and shoulders up somebody's arse to stay in work.
He's useless and should be no where near government. But then I could write a list of loads in that boat!
According to Survation, the only polling company to get the election right, Labour have a 4 point lead. It is too close to call. And I keep saying it, but Labour only have to do slightly better for Corbyn to be Prime Minisster. Not slightly better than Tories, but slightly better than they did at the last election.
Survations latest Poll that I can see (8th Sep) has Tories 1 point ahead. Personally I think Labour under Corbyn peaked just after the last election and he's not getting any younger or his policies anymore popular. Time will tell and the boundary changes and re/de-selection may have an impact one way or the other.
We'll have a better idea over the next 18 months when Brexit and everything else starts to play out. I think Labour could lose a lot of popular MP's which may not be good for them. They are in danger of becoming a party of Corbyn's from 5 years ago which won't be good for the country or the party.
I think Labour are relying on there being rules about bias in the run up to an election coupled with an activist base that will go out and talk to people in marginal constituencies. I don't think they care about current polls and I think they're probably right not to care. We are in uncharted territory and things may become clearer after Brexit, or it may open up a whole new can of worms as different factions in both parties see it as a green light to pursue what they really want.
Comments
I would probably vote for them then.
There needs to be a credible second house and the idea that they are protected from the pressures of election is no bad thing. Look at the US Senate now to see what we don't want.
Might be worth opening another thread on it as much as I am interested I don't want to detract from 'How the Tories need to change'.
Having an elected second house is a road to ruin (look at the clusterfuck of the US system).
In fact, if you watch debates in the house of lords they are exactly what "the public" supposedly want; respectful, balanced and quiet debate rather than the bluster peacocking and grandstanding in the commons.
Also palestine...
My reasons are that:
There is absolutely no definition as to what 'success' might be. There may be some kind of technical actuality of brexit, so if whatever that is happens, it might be termed a success under one definition whatever consequences might follow.
However 'success' in terms of there being anything good or positive to come from brexit whether the Tories or Labour bring it in will not withstand any objective measure, it will merely be a matter of opinion.
It certainly won't be the 'best way forward for a fairer society' because the words 'best', 'forward', 'fairer' and 'society' are not fixed or agreed concepts, and once again it will be a matter of mere opinion.
I am not at all 'scared' of the opinions of others.
I am interested in the practical solutions suggested by others, in particular the brexit victors, such solutions are thin to invisible on the ground, however I am intrigued to hear about the Tory brexit (does it count as a success?) story in having scores of portaloos ready on standby for deployment on the M2 and M20. I hope that practical step is the first of the hundreds we will need to be told about.
Tories now have a 4 point lead according to YoUGov
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/09/18/voting-intention-conservatives-40-labour-36-12-13-/
Interestingly 36% prefer May as PM to 23% for Corbyn.
We'll have a better idea over the next 18 months when Brexit and everything else starts to play out. I think Labour could lose a lot of popular MP's which may not be good for them. They are in danger of becoming a party of Corbyn's from 5 years ago which won't be good for the country or the party.
He's useless and should be no where near government. But then I could write a list of loads in that boat!