Given the fire is still smoldering, my guess is the 12 dead are just those on the street below or at the hospital. God knows what it rises to in a day or two when they search each room.
Putting a bit of historical perspective on it, the number of confirmed fatalities is already more than twice the recorded number of the Great Fire of London in 1666.
According to BBC Radio London it's kicking off as people getting upset with cameramen poking their cameras in people's faces. One journalist/cameraman got his equipment smashed. Police appear to have sorted it out but can undertstand that locals/relations are upset and angry enough already and don't want the media in their faces.
This is a gripe of mine. Here is not the time nor the place, but I feel that in today's environment, decency goes out the window. People are in a pit of despair and there's a television crew there to get the best possible pictures so they can project those peoples' pain to the rest of the world. I have a real issue with it
A friend of my wife lives in the block. her husband knew she had got out but couldn't find her for most of the day. she's now been found in one of the hospitals but it's not clear how bad she is
we were going to head down with clothes to donate as we're only a few stops away on the tube but the council have said they have enough for now
Just been watching BBC news and they are fucking disgusting. Interviewing a woman who is looking for her brother and blocking her path. Just let these people sort their lives out you utter turds!
I was going to post this earlier but didn't want to seem insensitive. Times like this, 24 hour news really bugs me.. A terrible, tragic event has happened & all they're doing is re hashing the same interviews over & over again. There is absolutely no new news to actually report on for several hours, so they end up chasing people down the road to get comments from them.
Just leave people alone to digest what's happened. 24 hour coverage is not necessary or helpful in this situation
I was going to post this earlier but didn't want to seem insensitive. Times like this, 24 hour news really bugs me.. A terrible, tragic event has happened & all they're doing is re hashing the same interviews over & over again. There is absolutely no new news to actually report on for several hours, so they end up chasing people down the road to get comments from them.
Just leave people alone to digest what's happened. 24 hour coverage is not necessary or helpful in this situation
I do agree. A point is reached when they have reported everything they can report to inform. Then it is worth retreating and reporting developments at suitable intervals. By the sound of it, they have upset people who are grieving and don't need reporters sticking microphones up their noses and cameramen all over the show,
On the press, sadly this is just the evolution of 24hr news. We've just become largely desensitised by widespread coverage these days imo .
Saw tourists having smiling selfies next to the London Bridge floral tributes and messages on Monday. I'm sure they don't mean any harm or insensitivity, I just think some people don't really 'think' as we lose some sense of reality with blanket news coverage and TV dramas / films effectively covering the same scenarios
It is the point when the 'story' stops evolving that it gets too much. Then it is a case of saying the same thing over and over again, talking to so called experts wh say the same thing and it is no longer news. Hosting their programse from the scene of the tragedy feels wrong. Sensitivity and respect to all those trying to come to terms with what has happened should count for something. Also, when they have to keep talking and have run out of things to say, they can say some crass things. It should be looked at.
Sensitivity around news reports has long been a bug of mine. The number of times a reporter is doing an interview where someone has lost a loved one and they ask "how are you feeling?"
Fuck off. I hope I'm never in that situation of losing someone and having a camera shoved in my face after, but fuck off will be the answer they get if I am.
Sensitivity around news reports has long been a bug of mine. The number of times a reporter is doing an interview where someone has lost a loved one and they ask "how are you feeling?"
Fuck off. I hope I'm never in that situation of losing someone and having a camera shoved in my face after, but fuck off will be the answer they get if I am.
That question is drilled out of journalists from day one of training. So, any broadcast journalist asking that question - whether it's a recently bereaved parent or someone just having crossed the winning line in a Grand Prix - is doing a crappy job.
Given the fire is still smoldering, my guess is the 12 dead are just those on the street below or at the hospital. God knows what it rises to in a day or two when they search each room.
RIP to those who passed and speedy recovery to those who survived. What a tragedy. I suspect with the heat in the building some peoples remains will have been incinerated almost completely - how they ever know who perished in there is a very difficult piece of investigation I suspect.
I know there are companies that do work for the council that a privite house holder would not touch with a barge pole. They go cheap but cut corners. Do you blame them or the people who give them the contracts - or is it a mixture of both.
The person who signs off the contract will always go with the cheapest, because that's how the world works for them. On a spreadsheet. The people who then cop the grief are the agents, supervisors and anyone who has to deal with the cheapest contractor. When anyone of those people try to get the person responsible for tendering the work to take some responsibility all they will get is ignored.
It is firmly the fault of the person who assigns the contract to ensure those undertaking the work are compliant, problem is the housing associations don't think to have the budget to bring their own auditors in, so farm that out too. So you end up with non-compliant contractors being audited by their own people on their payroll! Now they are hardly going to piss in their own bath are they?
From the BBC:
Company that carried out cladding work reportedly went into administration
Posted at 12:22
According to the industry publication Construction Enquirer, the company that carried out the cladding work on Grenfell Tower went into administration shortly after completing the work.
Harley Curtain Wall carried out the £3m project in 2015.
This seems hugely pertinent. Companies heading into administration will try to save every penny by cutting as many corners as possible. Just look at Gabrielle House on Gants Hill roundabout built by Taylor Wimpey in the economic crisis when pennies were pinched, sold to occupiers and now under scaffolding for 2 years because of what a terrible job the contractor did whilst saving pennies. I beleive that included cladding amongst very many other things.
Sensitivity around news reports has long been a bug of mine. The number of times a reporter is doing an interview where someone has lost a loved one and they ask "how are you feeling?"
Fuck off. I hope I'm never in that situation of losing someone and having a camera shoved in my face after, but fuck off will be the answer they get if I am.
But we watch it. We don't complain(in the main). So they think it's acceptable.
Hundreds of these towers have stood safely for decades - like any say air travel accident, there was likely an entirely hitherto unpredictable chain of events which caused the tragedy.
The key is to mimic the outstanding process the airline industry has for learning every single lesson in a spirit of complete openness, rather than one of backside covering and lies.
Hundreds of these towers have stood safely for decades - like any say air travel accident, there was likely an entirely hitherto unpredictable chain of events which caused the tragedy.
The key is to mimic the outstanding process the airline industry has for learning every single lesson in a spirit of complete openness, rather than one of backside covering and lies.
And sadly that attitude is exclusively reserved for the aeronautical industry. Everyone else is simply incapable of learning hard lessons, improving and apologising. Because all of those things are bad for margins and bonuses
Hundreds of these towers have stood safely for decades - like any say air travel accident, there was likely an entirely hitherto unpredictable chain of events which caused the tragedy.
The key is to mimic the outstanding process the airline industry has for learning every single lesson in a spirit of complete openness, rather than one of backside covering and lies.
And sadly that attitude is exclusively reserved for the aeronautical industry. Everyone else is simply incapable of learning hard lessons, improving and apologising. Because all of those things are bad for margins and bonuses
Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed is a good read on this very topic - compares the air industry to the obfuscation of the healthcare sector especially....
Hundreds of these towers have stood safely for decades - like any say air travel accident, there was likely an entirely hitherto unpredictable chain of events which caused the tragedy.
The key is to mimic the outstanding process the airline industry has for learning every single lesson in a spirit of complete openness, rather than one of backside covering and lies.
And sadly that attitude is exclusively reserved for the aeronautical industry. Everyone else is simply incapable of learning hard lessons, improving and apologising. Because all of those things are bad for margins and bonuses
Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed is a good read on this very topic - compares the air industry to the obfuscation of the healthcare sector especially....
He's a good book writer and social commentator is Matthew Syed.
Represented Great Britain at table tennis, journalist and generally a very good communicator. I have had black box thinking downloaded for a while on my kindle and need to read it. I was aware of the way things are done even after near misses in the air world and I'm a bit bothered reading his book will make me tear my hair out even more
Just watching the news. First I've seen of the images etc. I'm actually now ashamed and disgusted. Personally I think it's probably one of the darkest days on our nation in my lifetime. We take the poorest of society and put them in a death trap.
There's some people out there tonight who have a lot of blood on their hands
First off RIP to all those who have been killed as a result of this horrific fire and thoughts to all their families and friends at awful time.
Secondly hats off once again to the emergency services - particularly the Brigade - for their response and heroic actions.
Thirdly to the majority of the people from this part of London who have rallied round to support those who have suffered, you have shown your true generosity and human kindness, regardless of you race, creed, colour or religion. That to me speaks volumes and makes me feel proud that believe it or not, we have real intergrated communities, despite the hype.
Finally, as a Fire Safety Manager of an HA, five times the size of KCTMO, I obviously have a view on this, but now is not the time.
And those of you making massive assumptions, laying blame, making accusations need to think about what you are putting on this thread because along with some good points and fair and accurate comments, some people are still judging others before they have all the facts.
Just watching the news. First I've seen of the images etc. I'm actually now ashamed and disgusted. Personally I think it's probably one of the darkest days on our nation in my lifetime. We take the poorest of society and put them in a death trap.
There's some people out there tonight who have a lot of blood on their hands
Completely agree, the only way to describe how I feel is hollow. Like a shell, the reason me and a few others have been getting excited and angry is, at risk of speaking on behalf of people here, is this was avoidable and I feel hollow because I bang on and on about preventing things like this, ok not strictly in the terms of building inspection and safety but I mean doing things that need doing properly and taking time to do so to ensure disasters are at least restricted and limited down the line. But that doesn't yield instant results does it?
Yes there will be an enquiry but it won't erase the trauma, won't bring loved ones back, and most shamefully it won't stop the practice of people educated enough to know better (allegedly) squeezing every last drop out of those at the bottom end of society for a better dividend at the end of the year and backslaps all round. People all over the country living in high rises will be absolutely shitting themselves now and as ever the government will hold their palms up and say 'nothing to do with us, we contracted that essential service out to a profit-making enterprise'. The profit-making enterprise will say 'safety is our number one priority' whilst drilling the shit out of their sub contractors, sub-sub contractors and generally everyone else who has probably screamed about malpractice and corner cutting and been ignored, told to shut their mouth or told to fuck off and work elsewhere if they don't like it.
And Theresa May or some other chinless, jumped up slug will look solemn and say meaningful words that mean nothing. So angry about this and so sad for the people affected
Just speaking to my close mate who works for a property management company in Kensington.
This is what he's had to say (whatsapp conversation)
I am a property manager so I am responsible for fire safety at the buildings I manage. This kind of thing is scary because if it happened to a building on my portfolio I may be held accountable (perhaps even criminally).
I don't manage any high rise tower blocks (the highest I manage is seven floors).
But the whole thing is way more nuanced than the current conversation.
Everyone is immediately looking for a villain and someone to blame. But it might not be that simple. 1) obviously something has gone wrong 2) but we don't know what that was, yet. 3) should wait for investigation to let us know
I am always having to argue with leaseholders about improving fire safety. They obviously don't like spending money.
In this instance it was a council block. I don't know if any of the flats had been bought as leasehold.
The block was refurbed in 2016.
So the question could be if they cut corners on fire safety.
And if they did, was it incompetence or was it because they wanted to save money. Finally, more likely, is as all councils have had their finances severely cut, they simply didn't have the money.
Comments
we were going to head down with clothes to donate as we're only a few stops away on the tube but the council have said they have enough for now
Just leave people alone to digest what's happened. 24 hour coverage is not necessary or helpful in this situation
Saw tourists having smiling selfies next to the London Bridge floral tributes and messages on Monday. I'm sure they don't mean any harm or insensitivity, I just think some people don't really 'think' as we lose some sense of reality with blanket news coverage and TV dramas / films effectively covering the same scenarios
The number of times a reporter is doing an interview where someone has lost a loved one and they ask "how are you feeling?"
Fuck off.
I hope I'm never in that situation of losing someone and having a camera shoved in my face after, but fuck off will be the answer they get if I am.
The key is to mimic the outstanding process the airline industry has for learning every single lesson in a spirit of complete openness, rather than one of backside covering and lies.
I will agree that the airline industry has the best model for reducing error of any industry on Earth.
Represented Great Britain at table tennis, journalist and generally a very good communicator. I have had black box thinking downloaded for a while on my kindle and need to read it. I was aware of the way things are done even after near misses in the air world and I'm a bit bothered reading his book will make me tear my hair out even more
There's some people out there tonight who have a lot of blood on their hands
Secondly hats off once again to the emergency services - particularly the Brigade - for their response and heroic actions.
Thirdly to the majority of the people from this part of London who have rallied round to support those who have suffered, you have shown your true generosity and human kindness, regardless of you race, creed, colour or religion. That to me speaks volumes and makes me feel proud that believe it or not, we have real intergrated communities, despite the hype.
Finally, as a Fire Safety Manager of an HA, five times the size of KCTMO, I obviously have a view on this, but now is not the time.
And those of you making massive assumptions, laying blame, making accusations need to think about what you are putting on this thread because along with some good points and fair and accurate comments, some people are still judging others before they have all the facts.
Yes there will be an enquiry but it won't erase the trauma, won't bring loved ones back, and most shamefully it won't stop the practice of people educated enough to know better (allegedly) squeezing every last drop out of those at the bottom end of society for a better dividend at the end of the year and backslaps all round. People all over the country living in high rises will be absolutely shitting themselves now and as ever the government will hold their palms up and say 'nothing to do with us, we contracted that essential service out to a profit-making enterprise'. The profit-making enterprise will say 'safety is our number one priority' whilst drilling the shit out of their sub contractors, sub-sub contractors and generally everyone else who has probably screamed about malpractice and corner cutting and been ignored, told to shut their mouth or told to fuck off and work elsewhere if they don't like it.
And Theresa May or some other chinless, jumped up slug will look solemn and say meaningful words that mean nothing. So angry about this and so sad for the people affected
This is what he's had to say (whatsapp conversation)
I am a property manager so I am responsible for fire safety at the buildings I manage. This kind of thing is scary because if it happened to a building on my portfolio I may be held accountable (perhaps even criminally).
I don't manage any high rise tower blocks (the highest I manage is seven floors).
But the whole thing is way more nuanced than the current conversation.
Everyone is immediately looking for a villain and someone to blame. But it might not be that simple.
1) obviously something has gone wrong
2) but we don't know what that was, yet.
3) should wait for investigation to let us know
I am always having to argue with leaseholders about improving fire safety. They obviously don't like spending money.
In this instance it was a council block. I don't know if any of the flats had been bought as leasehold.
The block was refurbed in 2016.
So the question could be if they cut corners on fire safety.
And if they did, was it incompetence or was it because they wanted to save money. Finally, more likely, is as all councils have had their finances severely cut, they simply didn't have the money.