Without sounding like a soft hearted liberal I used to think that sentencing was the answer
But now I think it's part of it a big part but we need to deal with the root which is the breakdown in the home
There are some terrifyingly f***ed up people on our streets - we have a very fractured society. Heavier sentencing may help but you need to work with people and rehabilitate them otherwise nothing will change.
I've heard numerous ex gang members speak and there is a huge problem out there. The casual attitude towards violence from those who have nothing to lose is pretty terrifying.
Cutting staffing levels in prisons and young offenders institutes will only make things worse and offenders won'the break the cycle.
Heard an academic who over the last few years has studied gang culture and he was saying that after interviewing a large number of gang members the striking thing for him was that there was a complete lack of empathy.
Seems we are creating a sub culture of Psychopaths within our communities. The root cause is complex and as nla has posted any long term remedy will have to come from within the family. Will that happen ? Of course it won't. The solution would cost a lot of money and require a complete rethink on our social policies and values. It's virtually worthless as a starting point in looking to find an answer.
As you all probably know my politics are left leaning but I think that the only solution to both this horrific and growing spate of acid attacks, gun and knife crime is a sticking plaster solution.
In the short to medium term at least the response must be to use a sentencing deterrent. GBH has to mean a draconian prison sentence and by draconian I mean twenty five years plus with no parole. These gangsters treat short prison sentences and the act of violence as a way of enhancing their street status and respect. Twenty five years in chokey eliminates that.
The greatest freedom we have is the ability to feel safe. This is being eroded and we have to reclaim the streets from fear.
Not only do we need to restore the numbers of police officers to the levels before the lunatics in government slashed police budgets but we need more. Many more. There is no police presence on the streets any longer. Our police have become a response force. As some bright spark noted you can get a pizza to your door quicker than a policeman. It has to change. The modus operandi of street criminals is now the motor cycle. Why ? It's because they know that once they remove their helmets the police are not allowed to give chase. Wtf. I don't care if they fall off and crack their heads open. Perhaps this is the first thing that needs to change.
I am in touch with a guy called mark prince whose son you may remember is (don't like to use the past tense as it seems inappropriate) kiyan prince the young promising qpr footballer who was murdered when trying to stop his friend being attacked ,
his father was a great boxer in his time but is a phenomenal man and father an inspiration to me and I applaud his work and support it wholeheartedly he has a way of communicating with those most vulnerable to taking the paths that lead people towards this shit end of the stick
We are seeing how I and my business can assist him delivering his message to the young angry men that we are talking about and he firmly believes in tougher sentencing but also trying to reach out to the families to take back control and parent them
Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.
The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?
The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.
But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?
The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.
What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.
I am in touch with a guy called mark prince whose son you may remember is (don't like to use the past tense as it seems inappropriate) kiyan prince the young promising qpr footballer who was murdered when trying to stop his friend being attacked ,
his father was a great boxer in his time but is a phenomenal man and father an inspiration to me and I applaud his work and support it wholeheartedly he has a way of communicating with those most vulnerable to taking the paths that lead people towards this shit end of the stick
We are seeing how I and my business can assist him delivering his message to the young angry men that we are talking about and he firmly believes in tougher sentencing but also trying to reach out to the families to take back control and parent them
It could start with the Dad taking responsibility and bringing the child up. In my boys little gang of 6, I am the only Dad.
He was close friends to George Barker, who was fatality stabbed in Bexley a few months ago. Im pretty sure the incidents aren't related, its just a tragic coincidence.
Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.
The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?
The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.
But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?
The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.
What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.
Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.
The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?
The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.
But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?
The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.
What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.
You argument assumes that we can communicate and break through to these people. That may well work for the 12 - 13 year olds on the edges of gangs and crime but is not going to be effective for those already neck deep in gang violence and culture.
Sure. A multi pronged approach but for me I want these people off the streets for periods where they are effectively removed from street violence for good. Catch them and when caught lock them up for a very long time.
If that works as a deterrent then all well and good but if not the streets are still a bit safer.
Edit: I know the maximum sentence for GBH is life. Point being that it's not being applied. I want mandatory sentences where GBH carries a minimum 25 years. The law is there. It must be applied to its full force.
Longer sentencing is a real deterrent but only when the courts apply those sentences
Baldy that's the whole issue In a nutshell , when I was coaching youth football I became the only male influence on several of the kids , I ended up having to be almost fatherly to them in the context of ensuring they followed the right path but it gets to a point as they grow older that it isn't enough and they follow the easier more interesting route ,
When those who bring these kids into the world realise that they need more than just food and drink , clothes etc to become decent reflections of themselves then we can start to repair the damage
It needs to start in the home it needs to reach out to those who are now grand parents reaching back out to their own kids and in return reaching those young enough to still be influenced correctly
It's a long journey a thankless task at times but it is achievable if enough people within the communities impacted (which is all of us) look to support by whatever means possible and it's def not about putting your hand in your pockets But finding out who is doing what in your neighbourhood and making contact and just saying I am here I want to help what can I do to assist you in spreading this message
A lot of people don't feel they are able to be good parents they are scared and they feel their actions can't be reversed which is incorrect and with help and support and education they can start the repairs
He was close friends to George Barker, who was fatality stabbed in Bexley a few months ago. Im pretty sure the incidents aren't related, its just a tragic coincidence.
Did they ever catch who did that? Don't remember reading about it going to trial or anything
1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.
Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.
You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.
If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.
1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.
Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.
You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.
If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.
did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
There seems to be no deterrent to stop this happening, or do the perpetrators think they can get away with it?
Perpetrators always think they can get away with it; if they thought they were going to get caught, they wouldn't do it.
That's why (sadly) harsh sentences don't act as much of a deterrent.
The casual attitude towards using violence is truly shocking - as a society we seem too accepting of it.
you only have to watch kids computer games to see where it comes from.
I remember Jack the Ripper used to play GTA Online all the time.
What an ill-informed comment.
Perhaps I shouldn't have said kids computer games, as most kids watch over 15/18 games. Other than that I stand by what I said. Youngsters watching violent scenes for sometimes hours on end cannot be a good thing.
1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.
Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.
You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.
If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.
did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
There are cuts across the prison service which limits rehabilitation and makes them more dangerous. If imprisoning people is the only strategy it won't work.
1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.
Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.
You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.
If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.
did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
There are cuts across the prison service which limits rehabilitation and makes them more dangerous. If imprisoning people is the only strategy it won't work.
On the news last they said NO `childrens' prisons in England and Wales were safe for the `children' and the staff.
The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is 4 years in prison and an unlimited fine. You’ll get a prison sentence if you’re convicted of carrying a knife more than once.
until the sentences get upped nothing will change, as with most things in this once good country we have gone too pc it starts in the schools teachers and the police are the kids friends now, a lot put blame on single parents - got nothing to do with it, been brought up by my mum since i was 6, i haven't carried a knife or stabbed someone.
all these experts on it bang on about education - that's also bollocks - its the culture that you don't want to work and you think your some sort of gangster.
i saw a video yesterday of 4 shitbags on a moped robbing people, like ffs i would like to see them chased and then preferably crash into a wall, instead of see them go in prison and probably come out worse than they went in. people shouldn't be scared in there own homes or driving around, i think if you want to carry weapons/break into peoples homes then your fair game and if you get hurt your problem.
until the sentences get upped nothing will change, as with most things in this once good country we have gone too pc it starts in the schools teachers and the police are the kids friends now, a lot put blame on single parents - got nothing to do with it, been brought up by my mum since i was 6, i haven't carried a knife or stabbed someone.
all these experts on it bang on about education - that's also bollocks - its the culture that you don't want to work and you think your some sort of gangster.
i saw a video yesterday of 4 shitbags on a moped robbing people, like ffs i would like to see them chased and then preferably crash into a wall, instead of see them go in prison and probably come out worse than they went in. people shouldn't be scared in there own homes or driving around, i think if you want to carry weapons/break into peoples homes then your fair game and if you get hurt your problem.
To be fair the sentences don't need to be upped. A knife wounding or acid attack are classed as GBH with intent. The maximum sentence for this crime is life in prison.
I agree that carrying a knife or now acid needs to attract a mandatory sentence greater than what is currently given.
The three strikes and you're out policy needs to be seriously looked out for a specified range of offences in my opinion.
I'm not and ever will be an advocate of capital punishment but I look at a lot of these scumbags on TV police programmes and news reports and know that they're never going to make a single positive contribution to society in the whole of their miserable lives.
As Chizz points out, I don't think tougher sentences would help. They are already very tough. These people don't think they will ever get caught, so jail time is irrelevant to them.
I also don't think that fighting the root cause will help in the short term because there's already a lot of very messed up people out there.
For me, the best deterrent that would reduce acid attacks significantly, but would never get adopted (and probably rightly so) would be to quite simply replicate any acid attacks wound on the perpetrator were they to be caught, and then put them in prison. An eye for an eye makes us all blind, but I guarantee it would make them think more than a prison sentence. I know I would prefer a long stint in prison to acid.
I just feel there is something unique about a crime that effects your appearance and therefore unfortunately the way that everyone around you sees you.
Comments
I hope the family get all the support they need to get through this.
The incident occurred in East London
where the woman's partner also sustained injuries to his face.
There needs to be some serious thoughts on how to tackle this shit
Heavy sentences might act as a deterrent and it's frightening how casually it's used.
But now I think it's part of it a big part but we need to deal with the root which is the breakdown in the home
I've heard numerous ex gang members speak and there is a huge problem out there. The casual attitude towards violence from those who have nothing to lose is pretty terrifying.
Cutting staffing levels in prisons and young offenders institutes will only make things worse and offenders won'the break the cycle.
Seems we are creating a sub culture of Psychopaths within our communities. The root cause is complex and as nla has posted any long term remedy will have to come from within the family. Will that happen ? Of course it won't. The solution would cost a lot of money and require a complete rethink on our social policies and values. It's virtually worthless as a starting point in looking to find an answer.
As you all probably know my politics are left leaning but I think that the only solution to both this horrific and growing spate of acid attacks, gun and knife crime is a sticking plaster solution.
In the short to medium term at least the response must be to use a sentencing deterrent. GBH has to mean a draconian prison sentence and by draconian I mean twenty five years plus with no parole. These gangsters treat short prison sentences and the act of violence as a way of enhancing their street status and respect. Twenty five years in chokey eliminates that.
The greatest freedom we have is the ability to feel safe. This is being eroded and we have to reclaim the streets from fear.
Not only do we need to restore the numbers of police officers to the levels before the lunatics in government slashed police budgets but we need more. Many more. There is no police presence on the streets any longer. Our police have become a response force. As some bright spark noted you can get a pizza to your door quicker than a policeman. It has to change. The modus operandi of street criminals is now the motor cycle. Why ? It's because they know that once they remove their helmets the police are not allowed to give chase. Wtf. I don't care if they fall off and crack their heads open. Perhaps this is the first thing that needs to change.
his father was a great boxer in his time but is a phenomenal man and father an inspiration to me and I applaud his work and support it wholeheartedly he has a way of communicating with those most vulnerable to taking the paths that lead people towards this shit end of the stick
We are seeing how I and my business can assist him delivering his message to the young angry men that we are talking about and he firmly believes in tougher sentencing but also trying to reach out to the families to take back control and parent them
The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?
The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.
But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?
The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.
What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.
Sure. A multi pronged approach but for me I want these people off the streets for periods where they are effectively removed from street violence for good. Catch them and when caught lock them up for a very long time.
If that works as a deterrent then all well and good but if not the streets are still a bit safer.
Edit: I know the maximum sentence for GBH is life. Point being that it's not being applied. I want mandatory sentences where GBH carries a minimum 25 years. The law is there. It must be applied to its full force.
Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.
Baldy that's the whole issue In a nutshell , when I was coaching youth football I became the only male influence on several of the kids , I ended up having to be almost fatherly to them in the context of ensuring they followed the right path but it gets to a point as they grow older that it isn't enough and they follow the easier more interesting route ,
When those who bring these kids into the world realise that they need more than just food and drink , clothes etc to become decent reflections of themselves then we can start to repair the damage
It needs to start in the home it needs to reach out to those who are now grand parents reaching back out to their own kids and in return reaching those young enough to still be influenced correctly
It's a long journey a thankless task at times but it is achievable if enough people within the communities impacted (which is all of us) look to support by whatever means possible and it's def not about putting your hand in your pockets
But finding out who is doing what in your neighbourhood and making contact and just saying I am here I want to help what can I do to assist you in spreading this message
A lot of people don't feel they are able to be good parents they are scared and they feel their actions can't be reversed which is incorrect and with help and support and education they can start the repairs
If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.
Other than that I stand by what I said. Youngsters watching violent scenes for sometimes hours on end cannot be a good thing.
For god sake. Police can't chase a criminal on a motor cycle for fear of them falling off. No wonder the criminals feel invincible.
Why 'more than once'
all these experts on it bang on about education - that's also bollocks - its the culture that you don't want to work and you think your some sort of gangster.
i saw a video yesterday of 4 shitbags on a moped robbing people, like ffs i would like to see them chased and then preferably crash into a wall, instead of see them go in prison and probably come out worse than they went in. people shouldn't be scared in there own homes or driving around, i think if you want to carry weapons/break into peoples homes then your fair game and if you get hurt your problem.
I agree that carrying a knife or now acid needs to attract a mandatory sentence greater than what is currently given.
The three strikes and you're out policy needs to be seriously looked out for a specified range of offences in my opinion.
I also don't think that fighting the root cause will help in the short term because there's already a lot of very messed up people out there.
For me, the best deterrent that would reduce acid attacks significantly, but would never get adopted (and probably rightly so) would be to quite simply replicate any acid attacks wound on the perpetrator were they to be caught, and then put them in prison. An eye for an eye makes us all blind, but I guarantee it would make them think more than a prison sentence. I know I would prefer a long stint in prison to acid.
I just feel there is something unique about a crime that effects your appearance and therefore unfortunately the way that everyone around you sees you.