just looked up Alt- right you. As it happens I am a left of centre Labour voter [not quite corbynista] .No right wing leaning at all.Shame stereo-typing doesnt suit here.Ironic considering the topic under discussion.
upbeats cant be compared with lbgtq.I assume that LGBTQ isnt [and shouldnt be] seen as a disability so of course we should spend time,money effort etc on people less able to help themselves.But if you want to be doing community stuff to help people then why not set up a blind team and a deaf team and etc.... but why an LBGTQ team why are this group worthy of their own special football team?
There is a deaf team since you ask.
I wasn't comparing the Upbeats with the LGBT team. It was you who was talking about "holy joe/PC" stuff and some how linking this with the first team results. I pointed out that the Upbeats are part of "holy joe/PC" stuff the Trust do just like the street violence, the walking football for over 50s, the young men's mental health projects, etc etc etc etc. None of which is anything to do with results which, you said, was your issue.
Now, you're changed tack and are asking why there should be a LGBT team? Well, why not?
PS it's a LGBT friendly team not an team exclusively for LGBT people.
upbeats cant be compared with lbgtq.I assume that LGBTQ isnt [and shouldnt be] seen as a disability so of course we should spend time,money effort etc on people less able to help themselves.But if you want to be doing community stuff to help people then why not set up a blind team and a deaf team and etc.... but why an LBGTQ team why are this group worthy of their own special football team?
All much of ado about nothing, and certainly nothing worth arguing over.
As far as I can see, it's an existing gay-friendly local football team (Bexley Invicta) who have been around for about 7 years changing their name to Charlton Invicta.
As a result they probably get some kit, ability to use Sparrows Lane and an increase in profile. On the other side, the club get some positive PR and get to put their name to something current and progressive.
Good luck to them. @Oakster and @charlton Charlie who have run Charlton supporters teams will tell you how difficult it was to get old / spare kit from the club, and the use of Sparrows was a complete no no.
Nice interview with Gary Ginnaw on Five live a few minutes ago, in which he talked about how Charlton Invicta came into being.
FWIW I think the club (by which I mean Charlton Athletic in its entirety) embracing a gay-friendly amateur team is a progressive step on a journey, aiming for a time when gay/bi professionals in the game feel able to be open about their sexuality, and it becomes a non-issue.
upbeats cant be compared with lbgtq.I assume that LGBTQ isnt [and shouldnt be] seen as a disability so of course we should spend time,money effort etc on people less able to help themselves.But if you want to be doing community stuff to help people then why not set up a blind team and a deaf team and etc.... but why an LBGTQ team why are this group worthy of their own special football team?
Precisely because you, and others like you, argue against it. When the day comes that everyone agrees that it's absolutely fine, there will be no need. All the time that petty little arguments persist that it shouldn't be done, there is a need.
I dont necessarily think it has to be a choice but it seems odd that whilst we are crap on the pitch we seem to concentrate on all this peripheral stuff. Almost as a means to take peoples attention off of the failures on the pitch. When we were in the Prem we didnt seem to be quite so worried about the "holy joe/right on political correctness "stuff.co-incidence maybe.
I think the "holy joe/Right on political correctness" remark is a big give away.
And yes, the community trust )and club) was doing a lot of the same or similar when the football club was in the premiership ie red, white and black day, street violence ruins lives, mental health projects etc. The Trust is 25 years old hence the Legends game.
Back in the Prem days people moaned that "we" were wasting money on community stuff for "people who are aren't like me" and that it was all "PC". Even when fans pointed out that the club didn't, and still doesn't, fund the Trust they still found fault.
Helping the upbeats (another Trust iniative not funded by the football club) doesn't help us win games and it doesn't make us lose games, it's just the right thing to do, the same with all the other trust work. I'm proud to have played a small part in helping the upbeats as have many, mnay others on CL and elsewhere. Long may it continue but it has nothing to do with results for the first team and never will. Nor should it.
I agree with you historically but the club is currently investing £1.8m on facilities that are for the benefit of CACT and Footscray Rugby Club (largely on the latter's site, leased from the council), as set out on its own website:
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
I dont necessarily think it has to be a choice but it seems odd that whilst we are crap on the pitch we seem to concentrate on all this peripheral stuff. Almost as a means to take peoples attention off of the failures on the pitch. When we were in the Prem we didnt seem to be quite so worried about the "holy joe/right on political correctness "stuff.co-incidence maybe.
I think the "holy joe/Right on political correctness" remark is a big give away.
And yes, the community trust )and club) was doing a lot of the same or similar when the football club was in the premiership ie red, white and black day, street violence ruins lives, mental health projects etc. The Trust is 25 years old hence the Legends game.
Back in the Prem days people moaned that "we" were wasting money on community stuff for "people who are aren't like me" and that it was all "PC". Even when fans pointed out that the club didn't, and still doesn't, fund the Trust they still found fault.
Helping the upbeats (another Trust iniative not funded by the football club) doesn't help us win games and it doesn't make us lose games, it's just the right thing to do, the same with all the other trust work. I'm proud to have played a small part in helping the upbeats as have many, mnay others on CL and elsewhere. Long may it continue but it has nothing to do with results for the first team and never will. Nor should it.
I agree with you historically but the club is currently investing £1.8m on facilities that are for the benefit of CACT and Footscray Rugby Club (largely on the latter's site, leased from the council), as set out on its own website:
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
How much is that about a planning requirement to secure the permission to build the rest of the training ground?
Wasn't based on some community access to justify the deal?
I dont necessarily think it has to be a choice but it seems odd that whilst we are crap on the pitch we seem to concentrate on all this peripheral stuff. Almost as a means to take peoples attention off of the failures on the pitch. When we were in the Prem we didnt seem to be quite so worried about the "holy joe/right on political correctness "stuff.co-incidence maybe.
I think the "holy joe/Right on political correctness" remark is a big give away.
And yes, the community trust )and club) was doing a lot of the same or similar when the football club was in the premiership ie red, white and black day, street violence ruins lives, mental health projects etc. The Trust is 25 years old hence the Legends game.
Back in the Prem days people moaned that "we" were wasting money on community stuff for "people who are aren't like me" and that it was all "PC". Even when fans pointed out that the club didn't, and still doesn't, fund the Trust they still found fault.
Helping the upbeats (another Trust iniative not funded by the football club) doesn't help us win games and it doesn't make us lose games, it's just the right thing to do, the same with all the other trust work. I'm proud to have played a small part in helping the upbeats as have many, mnay others on CL and elsewhere. Long may it continue but it has nothing to do with results for the first team and never will. Nor should it.
I agree with you historically but the club is currently investing £1.8m on facilities that are for the benefit of CACT and Footscray Rugby Club (largely on the latter's site, leased from the council), as set out on its own website:
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
How much is that about a planning requirement to secure the permission to build the rest of the training ground?
Wasn't based on some community access to justify the deal?
None - the club already had full consent for all the aspects required by the football club from the previous 2015 application. Whatever the merits of this work - and that's not my point - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the professional football facilities. There has been nothing stopping them going ahead with that in planning terms since 2015.
Smoke and mirrors.
The 2014 scheme used the CACT offer to lever in funding to benefit CAFC.
The 2015 scheme dispensed with the integrated community element and the external funding and introduced a club spend on a new, separate CACT building.
The 2016 scheme has the club spending more money on improving the rugby club site for the benefit of CACT and the rugby club, and renovating the old CACT building.
The only direct benefit to CAFC is access via the rugby site but it doesn't need that for football club use as the 2015 permission established it could use Sparrows Lane alone. Indeed, it established that it was adequate for both the football club and the trust.
Some interesting points made in that article @timken
Invicta is not an exclusively gay team: in fact, only about a third of their players are gay. The point is to provide a team where LGBT people feel welcome where they might not elsewhere. “We’re here for everybody,” says Ginnaw. “But one thing we have to understand is that if you’re not accepting of LGBT people, then you’re probably not going to fit in with the club and its ethos and what we’re trying to achieve.”
Nick Coveney’s relationship with football was even more distant. After being outed at school he associated the game with the subsequent bullying from his peers, and actively pushed it away. “I decided I was never going to watch football,” he says. “I allowed myself to be very dismissive of football and football fans. I used to slope off whenever Match of the Day came on, because there was a perception that football wasn’t for me – or people like me.”
But, after seeing an advert for Invicta in a supermarket, he joined this summer. It does not particularly matter that he had little playing experience, or that he has a fair bit of work to do before getting into the team: what matters is he has been welcomed into a sport which he previously thought of as actively hostile to his identity.
“One of the things I found really interesting about being in a relationship with a gay guy who is really passionate about football is that the kind of prejudice about football exists in the gay community as well. There’s almost a knee-jerk dislike for football, because homophobia has been such a problematic part of people’s experiences.” Clubs such as Invicta can change attitudes both ways.
Ridiculously selfish I know, but I really wish they would be referred to as Charlton Invicta and not 'CIFC'
Having played for the CIFC supporters team with dozens of others off here for 15+ years, it's starting to grate me!
You shouldn't knock it whilst they are winning - it's always nice to be associated with success. As soon as they lose a match you are well within your rights to lose the plot however!
Comments
As it happens I am a left of centre Labour voter [not quite corbynista] .No right wing leaning at all.Shame stereo-typing doesnt suit here.Ironic considering the topic under discussion.
I wasn't comparing the Upbeats with the LGBT team. It was you who was talking about "holy joe/PC" stuff and some how linking this with the first team results. I pointed out that the Upbeats are part of "holy joe/PC" stuff the Trust do just like the street violence, the walking football for over 50s, the young men's mental health projects, etc etc etc etc. None of which is anything to do with results which, you said, was your issue.
Now, you're changed tack and are asking why there should be a LGBT team? Well, why not?
PS it's a LGBT friendly team not an team exclusively for LGBT people.
As far as I can see, it's an existing gay-friendly local football team (Bexley Invicta) who have been around for about 7 years changing their name to Charlton Invicta.
As a result they probably get some kit, ability to use Sparrows Lane and an increase in profile. On the other side, the club get some positive PR and get to put their name to something current and progressive.
Good luck to them. @Oakster and @charlton Charlie who have run Charlton supporters teams will tell you how difficult it was to get old / spare kit from the club, and the use of Sparrows was a complete no no.
FWIW I think the club (by which I mean Charlton Athletic in its entirety) embracing a gay-friendly amateur team is a progressive step on a journey, aiming for a time when gay/bi professionals in the game feel able to be open about their sexuality, and it becomes a non-issue.
By the way there's already a Charlton Deaf Football Club, Good luck to them as well: https://www.facebook.com/cadfc/
Phase II - Cost: £1.8m
Planning permission on phase II of the redevelopment was granted in October 2016, with construction work beginning in February 2017 following legal delays.
Phase II sees the club work with neighbouring Footscray Rugby Club, as well as the Charlton Athletic Community Trust, and consists of the construction of a new synthetic community pitch. It involves the renovation of Footscray Rugby Club’s natural pitches and the construction of two additional 3G pitches for Footscray and CACT.
As well as this, the whole CACT area of the training ground is being revamped. This includes the construction of two new changing rooms, a classroom, a consultation room, the construction of a new, 3G rugby pitch and the construction of a new access road and increased parking area.
Wasn't based on some community access to justify the deal?
We didn't all do French at school !
Smoke and mirrors.
The 2014 scheme used the CACT offer to lever in funding to benefit CAFC.
The 2015 scheme dispensed with the integrated community element and the external funding and introduced a club spend on a new, separate CACT building.
The 2016 scheme has the club spending more money on improving the rugby club site for the benefit of CACT and the rugby club, and renovating the old CACT building.
The only direct benefit to CAFC is access via the rugby site but it doesn't need that for football club use as the 2015 permission established it could use Sparrows Lane alone. Indeed, it established that it was adequate for both the football club and the trust.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/08/charlton-invicta-show-way-forward-lgbt-community
Invicta is not an exclusively gay team: in fact, only about a third of their players are gay. The point is to provide a team where LGBT people feel welcome where they might not elsewhere. “We’re here for everybody,” says Ginnaw. “But one thing we have to understand is that if you’re not accepting of LGBT people, then you’re probably not going to fit in with the club and its ethos and what we’re trying to achieve.”
Nick Coveney’s relationship with football was even more distant. After being outed at school he associated the game with the subsequent bullying from his peers, and actively pushed it away. “I decided I was never going to watch football,” he says. “I allowed myself to be very dismissive of football and football fans. I used to slope off whenever Match of the Day came on, because there was a perception that football wasn’t for me – or people like me.”
But, after seeing an advert for Invicta in a supermarket, he joined this summer. It does not particularly matter that he had little playing experience, or that he has a fair bit of work to do before getting into the team: what matters is he has been welcomed into a sport which he previously thought of as actively hostile to his identity.
“One of the things I found really interesting about being in a relationship with a gay guy who is really passionate about football is that the kind of prejudice about football exists in the gay community as well. There’s almost a knee-jerk dislike for football, because homophobia has been such a problematic part of people’s experiences.” Clubs such as Invicta can change attitudes both ways.
Having played for the CIFC supporters team with dozens of others off here for 15+ years, it's starting to grate me!
I wish CIFC every success and hope to see more good news about CIFC in the future.
#CIFC