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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    My guess is that @Chippycafc is referring to previous comments from Juncker wherein he stated that Europe would function better if it merged the presidents of the European Commission and the European Council.

    The rumour is that he wants such a role but will not declare unless it is approved.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    stonemuse said:

    My guess is that @Chippycafc is referring to previous comments from Juncker wherein he stated that Europe would function better if it merged the presidents of the European Commission and the European Council.

    The rumour is that he wants such a role but will not declare unless it is approved.

    The issue is Chippy didn't even know there was one president, let alone two.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,157
    Boris Johnson has reached out to me. He has spoken.

    “We will continue ever more intensively to go on cheapo flights to stag parties in ancient cities, meet interesting people, fall in love, struggle amiably to learn the European languages whose decline has been a paradoxical feature of EU membership,” he said.

    “There is no sensible reason why we should not be able to retire to Spain, as indeed we did long before Spain joined the EU, or anywhere else.”

    So that's alright then.

    Except that:

    1. The ancient cities are pretty sick of the stag parties. Brexit will be an ideal opportunity to reduce their volume and impact.

    2. Fall in love. That's a good one. My Brexit brother, he who sees an immigrant in every blacked out SUV that cuts him up on the A2, has, in an act of breathtaking irony, just married a Brazilian lady who is patently an immigrant with no special skills. he has had to shell out £3,000 for a visa for her. (My sister and I laughed ourselves silly). Anyone who has fallen in love with a Czech girl, get married now, and save on that 3k.

    3. I expect @CharltonMadrid will be best placed to keep us posted on how our Spanish-based retirees are faring, post Brexit. My understanding is that in certain areas the locals would like to see a few less of them.
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    edited February 2018
    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
  • Bournemouth Addick
    Bournemouth Addick Posts: 16,284
    PragueAddick said:

    Boris Johnson has reached out to me. He has spoken.

    “We will continue ever more intensively to go on cheapo flights to stag parties in ancient cities, meet interesting people, fall in love, struggle amiably to learn the European languages whose decline has been a paradoxical feature of EU membership,” he said.

    “There is no sensible reason why we should not be able to retire to Spain, as indeed we did long before Spain joined the EU, or anywhere else.”

    So that's alright then.

    Except that:

    1. The ancient cities are pretty sick of the stag parties. Brexit will be an ideal opportunity to reduce their volume and impact.

    2. Fall in love. That's a good one. My Brexit brother, he who sees an immigrant in every blacked out SUV that cuts him up on the A2, has, in an act of breathtaking irony, just married a Brazilian lady who is patently an immigrant with no special skills. he has had to shell out £3,000 for a visa for her. (My sister and I laughed ourselves silly). Anyone who has fallen in love with a Czech girl, get married now, and save on that 3k.

    3. I expect @CharltonMadrid will be best placed to keep us posted on how our Spanish-based retirees are faring, post Brexit. My understanding is that in certain areas the locals would like to see a few less of them.

    Was it £3k well spent though? I think we need to know...
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    But today's speeches by Johnson and Juncker had nothing to do with how the EU can be made to work; and everything to do with how Brexit might be made to work.

    So it's disappointing that the Foreign Secretary took the opportunity afforded to him to present a widely-publicised, unchallenged, pre-briefed speech, in front of the world's media to tell us all how the most important element of Brexit from the point of view of the FCO is being finalised, namely the Irish and Kent borders. And, of course, that precisely zero progress has been made at all.

    "Let's unite around Brexit vision"? Yeah, right. Let's *see* a f$#@ing vision first.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,157
    Bournemouth Addick said:

    PragueAddick said:

    Boris Johnson has reached out to me. He has spoken.

    “We will continue ever more intensively to go on cheapo flights to stag parties in ancient cities, meet interesting people, fall in love, struggle amiably to learn the European languages whose decline has been a paradoxical feature of EU membership,” he said.

    “There is no sensible reason why we should not be able to retire to Spain, as indeed we did long before Spain joined the EU, or anywhere else.”

    So that's alright then.

    Except that:

    1. The ancient cities are pretty sick of the stag parties. Brexit will be an ideal opportunity to reduce their volume and impact.

    2. Fall in love. That's a good one. My Brexit brother, he who sees an immigrant in every blacked out SUV that cuts him up on the A2, has, in an act of breathtaking irony, just married a Brazilian lady who is patently an immigrant with no special skills. he has had to shell out £3,000 for a visa for her. (My sister and I laughed ourselves silly). Anyone who has fallen in love with a Czech girl, get married now, and save on that 3k.

    3. I expect @CharltonMadrid will be best placed to keep us posted on how our Spanish-based retirees are faring, post Brexit. My understanding is that in certain areas the locals would like to see a few less of them.

    Was it £3k well spent though? I think we need to know...
    I think on balance my sister and I might have paid up ourselves, if he had asked. The ability to simply stare silently at him when he starts banging on about low skilled immigrants on dodgy marriage arrangements... priceless :-)

  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    edited February 2018
    Chizz said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    But today's speeches by Johnson and Juncker had nothing to do with how the EU can be made to work; and everything to do with how Brexit might be made to work.

    So it's disappointing that the Foreign Secretary took the opportunity afforded to him to present a widely-publicised, unchallenged, pre-briefed speech, in front of the world's media to tell us all how the most important element of Brexit from the point of view of the FCO is being finalised, namely the Irish and Kent borders. And, of course, that precisely zero progress has been made at all.

    "Let's unite around Brexit vision"? Yeah, right. Let's *see* a f$#@ing vision first.
    I was commenting solely on his statement.

    If you want me to comment further, then fine ... Johnson is a wanker.
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    A few stories from Ireland (the last one, light heartedly, is my favourite - as a Brexit-hating bigot, naturally, I find the suggested name delightful).

    Fintan O'Toole suggests why it is that the charms of that nice Mr Farage are unlikely to play too well in Ireland: https://irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-irexit-would-be-the-end-of-irish-nationalism-1.3389695.

    All major Irish newspapers have reported on this forecast, which indicates the sort of damage that Brexit (in any format) will cause the Irish economy: https://irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-s-huge-threat-to-rural-ireland-and-its-beef-and-dairy-industries-1.3391148 & https://irishexaminer.com/ireland/beef-dairy-food-industries-to-take-brunt-of-brexit-467119.html. But there is no way that the potential damage would be enough to warrant Irexit.

    Populism strikes again: https://irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-schoolgirl-6-demands-nasa-make-pluto-great-again-1.3391792, in fairness, I think this makes more sense than Boris' speech - about which, I am eagerly anticipating the Irish media assessment.

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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
    My instinct is obviously not based upon that statement ... and you know it’s not.

    It’s based upon his history over the last few years and the many statements he has made regarding the future of the EU. I interpret them as federalist in nature. You may not, but I feel confident that I am leaning in the right direction.
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    NornIrishAddick said:

    A few stories from Ireland (the last one, light heartedly, is my favourite - as a Brexit-hating bigot, naturally, I find the suggested name delightful).

    Fintan O'Toole suggests why it is that the charms of that nice Mr Farage are unlikely to play too well in Ireland: https://irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-irexit-would-be-the-end-of-irish-nationalism-1.3389695.

    All major Irish newspapers have reported on this forecast, which indicates the sort of damage that Brexit (in any format) will cause the Irish economy: https://irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-s-huge-threat-to-rural-ireland-and-its-beef-and-dairy-industries-1.3391148 & https://irishexaminer.com/ireland/beef-dairy-food-industries-to-take-brunt-of-brexit-467119.html. But there is no way that the potential damage would be enough to warrant Irexit.

    Populism strikes again: https://irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-schoolgirl-6-demands-nasa-make-pluto-great-again-1.3391792, in fairness, I think this makes more sense than Boris' speech - about which, I am eagerly anticipating the Irish media assessment.

    I like the idea of Planet Unicorn :smiley:
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    edited February 2018
    To be fair anyone to the left of JRM is portrayed as an arch-Euro federalist by the British media.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
    My instinct is obviously not based upon that statement ... and you know it’s not.

    It’s based upon his history over the last few years and the many statements he has made regarding the future of the EU. I interpret them as federalist in nature. You may not, but I feel confident that I am leaning in the right direction.
    You mention the last few years, and today Juncker specifically referenced the last few years ( I believe he specified 'four' years) as part of his denial.
    Are you sure you're not indulging in a bit of creative interpretation?
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    Fiiish said:

    To be fair anyone to the left of JRM is portrayed as an arch-Euro federalist by the British media.

    Very true, but I am not a media luvvie :wink:
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
    My instinct is obviously not based upon that statement ... and you know it’s not.

    It’s based upon his history over the last few years and the many statements he has made regarding the future of the EU. I interpret them as federalist in nature. You may not, but I feel confident that I am leaning in the right direction.
    You mention the last few years, and today Juncker specifically referenced the last few years ( I believe he specified 'four' years) as part of his denial.
    Are you sure you're not indulging in a bit of creative interpretation?
    Well, I’ve mentioned it on numerous occasions in the past on Brexit threads ... so no, I am not.

    Why should you care anyway, it is my belief about his beliefs. Hardly the worst thing going on at the moment.

    I think he is right to be a federalist ... that is what would make the EU work more effectively for those that want it.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    What you mean by federalism is actually what federalism means.

    What the Brexit media and movement think federalism means is your kids being forced to join an EU army and defend Muslims from Russian tanks.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
    My instinct is obviously not based upon that statement ... and you know it’s not.

    It’s based upon his history over the last few years and the many statements he has made regarding the future of the EU. I interpret them as federalist in nature. You may not, but I feel confident that I am leaning in the right direction.
    You mention the last few years, and today Juncker specifically referenced the last few years ( I believe he specified 'four' years) as part of his denial.
    Are you sure you're not indulging in a bit of creative interpretation?
    Well, I’ve mentioned it on numerous occasions in the past on Brexit threads ... so no, I am not.

    Why should you care anyway, it is my belief about his beliefs. Hardly the worst thing going on at the moment.

    I think he is right to be a federalist ... that is what would make the EU work more effectively for those that want it.
    I suppose I care because the bloke specifically says, with words coming out of his own mouth, that he is not a federalist, yet people say he is.
    What chance has anybody got?
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    Is there any particular feature about Juncker saying he is not a federalist that leads you to believe he is a federalist?
    My instinct is obviously not based upon that statement ... and you know it’s not.

    It’s based upon his history over the last few years and the many statements he has made regarding the future of the EU. I interpret them as federalist in nature. You may not, but I feel confident that I am leaning in the right direction.
    You mention the last few years, and today Juncker specifically referenced the last few years ( I believe he specified 'four' years) as part of his denial.
    Are you sure you're not indulging in a bit of creative interpretation?
    Well, I’ve mentioned it on numerous occasions in the past on Brexit threads ... so no, I am not.

    Why should you care anyway, it is my belief about his beliefs. Hardly the worst thing going on at the moment.

    I think he is right to be a federalist ... that is what would make the EU work more effectively for those that want it.
    I suppose I care because the bloke specifically says, with words coming out of his own mouth, that he is not a federalist, yet people say he is.
    What chance has anybody got?
    ‘My belief about his beliefs.’

    And I have not criticised him for it. I applaud him for it.

    And I am not the only one who believes it:

    https://bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-13/juncker-wants-a-u-s-of-europe-does-anyone-else

    independent.co.uk/news/people/jean-claude-juncker-the-face-of-federalism-9504014.html

    csfederalismo.it/en/papers-and-articles/item/418-jean-claude-juncker-s-federalist-vision-for-the-eu-is-far-from-reality-september-13-2017

    newsweek.com/brexit-eu-europe-jean-claude-juncker-future-europe-scenarios-562555

    https://thetimes.co.uk/article/juncker-plans-new-vision-for-europe-with-no-mention-of-brexit-mfjwt3l9s

    https://jef.eu/news/jefnews/jef-europe-on-the-state-of-union-a-step-forward-for-federalists/

    https://rt.com/news/403242-juncker-eu-reaction-speech/

    europa-union.de/dachverband/news/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=34468&cHash=31c7bfeeb07797d28945ac435f00a98d

    etc, etc, etc


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  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    Fiiish said:

    What you mean by federalism is actually what federalism means.

    What the Brexit media and movement think federalism means is your kids being forced to join an EU army and defend Muslims from Russian tanks.

    I hope you are wrong but fear you are right.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Fiiish said:

    randy andy said:

    Chippycafc said:

    Thought juncker afterwards was superb, if that's angry god help us. He says there is no plans for a euro super state, yet announces they are going to elect a president, something the bbc reporter picked up on. Surprised no one else here has mentioned it.

    Why would it be mentioned? The EU, or EC as was, had had various presidents since 1958. We weren't in a European super state then, we're not in one now, and there appears to be very little desire (outside of a few bureaucrats that have neither the ability nor influence to force the issue) for one to be created anytime in the future.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_institutions_of_the_European_Union#Historic_office_holders
    The election to replace him is next year so that's probably why he mentioned it.

    Astounding that someone who is a daily contributor to this thread and a hugely vocal opponent of the EU does not even know this basic fact.
    Who said I didn't, as usual you assumed it and I am not responsible for your assumption. I am astounded that you thought that..too quick to jump in again. Engage brain before opening mouth. You shouldn't assume anything as it just makes an ASS out of U and ME.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    What do you think about Boris Johnson's comments about the Irish border, @stonemuse ?
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    Chizz said:

    What do you think about Boris Johnson's comments about the Irish border, @stonemuse ?

    Not seen it, can you provide a link.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    stonemuse said:

    Chizz said:

    What do you think about Boris Johnson's comments about the Irish border, @stonemuse ?

    Not seen it, can you provide a link.
    No-one's seen it. That's the whole point.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    stonemuse said:

    My guess is that @Chippycafc is referring to previous comments from Juncker wherein he stated that Europe would function better if it merged the presidents of the European Commission and the European Council.

    The rumour is that he wants such a role but will not declare unless it is approved.

    Thanks an abacus and chalk needed for some. They just don't want to accept that its coming.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Fiiish said:

    stonemuse said:

    My guess is that @Chippycafc is referring to previous comments from Juncker wherein he stated that Europe would function better if it merged the presidents of the European Commission and the European Council.

    The rumour is that he wants such a role but will not declare unless it is approved.

    The issue is Chippy didn't even know there was one president, let alone two.
    Thought there was five....
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    Chizz said:

    stonemuse said:

    Chizz said:

    What do you think about Boris Johnson's comments about the Irish border, @stonemuse ?

    Not seen it, can you provide a link.
    No-one's seen it. That's the whole point.
    Then I refer you to my previous response ... Johnson is a wanker.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,157
    stonemuse said:

    Chizz said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    But today's speeches by Johnson and Juncker had nothing to do with how the EU can be made to work; and everything to do with how Brexit might be made to work.

    So it's disappointing that the Foreign Secretary took the opportunity afforded to him to present a widely-publicised, unchallenged, pre-briefed speech, in front of the world's media to tell us all how the most important element of Brexit from the point of view of the FCO is being finalised, namely the Irish and Kent borders. And, of course, that precisely zero progress has been made at all.

    "Let's unite around Brexit vision"? Yeah, right. Let's *see* a f$#@ing vision first.
    I was commenting solely on his statement.

    If you want me to comment further, then fine ... Johnson is a wanker.
    NOW at last, Remainers and Leavers are bonding. So much for those commentators who said Johnson was the last person to field, to bring Remainers and Leavers together. What a genius move.

    :-)

  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,015
    PragueAddick said:

    stonemuse said:

    Chizz said:

    stonemuse said:

    seth plum said:

    Ah!
    Ahha!
    Yeah, aha, but he would say this wouldn't he, when everybody knows he means the opposite?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43062104/juncker-eu-superstate-claims-total-nonsense


    “He takes issue with those in British politics who characterise him as a "stupid, stubborn, federalist".


    Juncker is far from stupid.

    He is stubborn but no problem with that if can be conciliatory when required

    But, personally, I believe he is a federalist.

    And I should add, as I have often stated, a federal EU is the only way it can really work ... unless we have a multi-track EU ... which is my preference and would make me want to remain if handled efficiently.
    But today's speeches by Johnson and Juncker had nothing to do with how the EU can be made to work; and everything to do with how Brexit might be made to work.

    So it's disappointing that the Foreign Secretary took the opportunity afforded to him to present a widely-publicised, unchallenged, pre-briefed speech, in front of the world's media to tell us all how the most important element of Brexit from the point of view of the FCO is being finalised, namely the Irish and Kent borders. And, of course, that precisely zero progress has been made at all.

    "Let's unite around Brexit vision"? Yeah, right. Let's *see* a f$#@ing vision first.
    I was commenting solely on his statement.

    If you want me to comment further, then fine ... Johnson is a wanker.
    NOW at last, Remainers and Leavers are bonding. So much for those commentators who said Johnson was the last person to field, to bring Remainers and Leavers together. What a genius move.

    :-)

    No surprise that this would be a meeting point :wink:

    Although, to be honest, I find JRM a lot more worrisome.
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