The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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England could be in a World Cup final the same week Boris Johnson resigns. What a time to be alive.9
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I know that you will find this hard to credit, but I have to disagree with you.Southbank said:
Then let us have an election where one party stands for Remain, one for Swiss option and a new party for a clean break.If this had happened before we would not be in such a mess.MuttleyCAFC said:Are Norway in the EU? Are Switzwerland? Serious questions for those that cannot grasp that there are different degrees of Brexit! If you answer these questions honestly and accurately, you cannot claim the Brexit this country is heading for isn't Brexit! The thing is, we do need clarification what the people want, but the hard line Brexiters don't want that for some reason!
A General Election is about electing a party to (allegedly) govern for (allegedly) five years at a time.
It is the height of folly to formulate General Election Manifestoes on single issues.
Can you imagine what kind of benefits system the current lot in power would have implemented, to say nothing of health and social care, if they were not in any way constrained by commitments that they had made to the electorate?
Don't get me wrong (he said in full-on Chrissy Hinds mode), I'd be delighted if there was a clear difference between all the parties on Brexit, because then there is a chance that my political view would have some hope of being represented (suffice to say that the DUP and Sinn Fein can both rest easy in the sure and certain knowledge that they cannot lose my vote).
But....
You do not solve the flaws inherent with a binary referendum by simply turning General Elections, with all their levels of complexity and individual compromise, into part two of the process.7 -
I'm not a fan of them either, but we had a flawed one and everybody keeps saying they know what they voted for when it was just yes or no FFS! We need to clear the matter up and then make the best of what the result is! If you believe the polls it is more likely to be closer to what May and Corbyn want than what Johnson and Mogg want. The reason is simple, 48% of people would mostly vote for a soft Brexit whereas, whilst a clear majority of the 52% would vote for a Hard Brexit, a significant percentage would vote for a soft one! Anyway, lets see and sort all of this crap out!0
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What a mess the whole thing is.
Absolutely shameful.1 -
I f**king hate you!!!!CharltonMadrid said:People (including on here) often talk about Remainers being unpatriotic, traitors and 'cowards', the same insults being levelled at people living abroad. I don't think there has ever been such a divisive, self-serving figure such as Boris Johnson though, who quite easily qualifies for these descriptions due to his naked self-interest and happiness to do damage to his own country to serve his own ego and ambitions.
I've now got an image in my head that I cannot unsee.
Nasty...
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The last time we had a referendum it went so badly we ended up with this mess. Second time round would probably open up a portal to the seventh circle of hell which will begin the end times.MuttleyCAFC said:I'm not a fan of them either, but we had a flawed one and everybody keeps saying they know what they voted for when it was just yes or no FFS! We need to clear the matter up and then make the best of what the result is! If you believe the polls it is more likely to be closer to what May and Corbyn want than what Johnson and Mogg want. The reason is simple, 48% of people would mostly vote for a soft Brexit whereas, whilst a clear majority of the 52% would vote for a Hard Brexit, a significant percentage would vote for a soft one! Anyway, lets see and sort all of this crap out!
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Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
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Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.MuttleyCAFC said:In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
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I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
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Poll's would say that, they wanna stay in th UK!Red_in_SE8 said:
I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
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That could be debated, but it would be a waste of time as the manifesto can only apply to the party in government surely.Southbank said:
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.MuttleyCAFC said:In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
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Brexit has divided England.
Football has united England.
Did anyone seriously believe that
we would be allowed to leave such a corrupt system!0 -
But we are leaving it.0
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Jensenwasclass said:
Brexit has divided England.
Football has united England.
Did anyone seriously believe that
we would be allowed to leave such a corrupt system!
England's leaving FIFA?
Hardly the best timing, to be honest.
Are the FA hoping for a close and special relationship with UEFA?4 -
Out in Athens this evening and came across this graffiti which I think reflects how many young Greeks feel1
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You are in the wrong side of the class divide my friendRed_in_SE8 said:
I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
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Graffito0
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Surely young greeks would be doing graffiti in Greek?0
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I know I'm going to regret this, but go on then, explain how you're turning Brexit into a class war.Southbank said:
You are in the wrong side of the class divide my friendRed_in_SE8 said:
I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
Is it that you buy the guff that Brexit is the working class rising up to stick it to the establishment, led of course by that working class hero Jacob Rees-Mogg.8 -
It was ever thus...se9addick said:
Trust me Athens is absolutely covered in graffiti in Greek, never seen anything like it.aliwibble said:Surely young greeks would be doing graffiti in Greek?
Spent a good amount of time there before and after the Olympics (and a percentage of the graffiti always seemed to be in English).
To say nothing of their history of protest, which has a tendency to descend into open confrontation - the Communists seemed inclined to encourage their prettiest female supporters to carry the banners at the front of the protest, which made Marxism and its ilk seem infinitely more appealing than the SWP could ever achieve.
Even before their economic crisis things were tough for the younger generation - many I talked to recognised that the Greek way under PASOK and New Democracy was unsustainable, but hoped to get far enough up the ladder to avoid the worst when the change came.
Now, obviously, they feel shafted.0 -
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Oh yeah, because Sunderland is full of millionaire tory types isn't it?randy andy said:
I know I'm going to regret this, but go on then, explain how you're turning Brexit into a class war.Southbank said:
You are in the wrong side of the class divide my friendRed_in_SE8 said:
I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
Is it that you buy the guff that Brexit is the working class rising up to stick it to the establishment, led of course by that working class hero Jacob Rees-Mogg.0 -
Well, that answers the question.Howells said:
Oh yeah, because Sunderland is full of millionaire tory types isn't it?randy andy said:
I know I'm going to regret this, but go on then, explain how you're turning Brexit into a class war.Southbank said:
You are in the wrong side of the class divide my friendRed_in_SE8 said:
I am on the side of jobs being retained in the U.K. and not having the economy destroyed for generations to come all because of a fraudulent Putin backed Brexit campaign over two years ago; especially when current polls suggest 53% of the population are opposed to Brexit today.Southbank said:
Yes that us right, you are on the side of big business and hold their opinion and power more important than the 17.4 million-and you call yourself a socialist I believe?Red_in_SE8 said:
And unlike in the Referendum and the last election all the large businesses and employers in the UK will, I think, campaign vigorously, as they have in recent weeks, against anything other than a very soft Brexit. The "Fuck Business" party will struggle to deal with the seriously diminished support they will get from big business.Southbank said:Time for a General Election in which both parties tell the truth about their attitude towards Brexit, including Labour who should not try to con their Brexit supporters again.
Is it that you buy the guff that Brexit is the working class rising up to stick it to the establishment, led of course by that working class hero Jacob Rees-Mogg.
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Funny you should bring up Sunderland actually. It's been demonstrated that the most pro-Brexit areas are those with the lowest immigration, and the areas having the highest pro-Remain vote had the most diversity.
Sunderland are the ultimate proof of those states, a 94% white British population voting to leave the EU over fears of too much immigration.
I'm also not sure what point you're trying to raise, are you suggesting that everybody in Sunderland is working class, or that nobody there votes Tory, or that there are no millionaires in the North East?
A look through by-election results shows Tories comfortably winning seats in Sunderland as recently as 2007, seems the crash and subsequent economic policies has swung it back to Labour, but still more than 10% of the seats on the council are held by Tories.0
