For the EU read the British and then you have the believers (leavers) and unbelievers (remainders). When the prophecy of the dead arising and bringing with them cattle and food didn't materialise, it was the fault of the unbelievers for not getting behind it.
Don't worry Leavers, the Home Office has a cunning plan to ensure the "correct" result in any 2nd referendum. Not only will traitors like me, @CharltonMadrid, and @Algarveaddick be denied a vote, but we will be replaced by more "suitable" citizens...
Don't worry Leavers, the Home Office has a cunning plan to ensure the "correct" result in any 2nd referendum. Not only will traitors like me, @CharltonMadrid, and @Algarveaddick be denied a vote, but we will be replaced by more "suitable" citizens...
That's British democracy in the bright new Brexit world.
Russians have been placing “citizens” in countries around Europe for years. Not equating Ukraine to the UK but just watch what happens in the Ukraine when Putin eventually ups the ante and scale of interference.
We would opt out of any European Army with a promise to co-operate with it. It is just new nonsense to add to the debate by leavers like Turkey joining the EU was! A European army would make sense to a lot of countries as it should save them money.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
Don't worry Leavers, the Home Office has a cunning plan to ensure the "correct" result in any 2nd referendum. Not only will traitors like me, @CharltonMadrid, and @Algarveaddick be denied a vote, but we will be replaced by more "suitable" citizens...
That's British democracy in the bright new Brexit world.
Russians have been placing “citizens” in countries around Europe for years. Not equating Ukraine to the UK but just watch what happens in the Ukraine when Putin eventually ups the ante and scale of interference.
Southbank, can I congratulate you for being in the minority and speaking or commenting a lot of sense. Most of the Remainers on here seem Paranoid!
Do you see the irony of criticising others as "paranoid" for not joining in with the view that there's a secret plan to control and undermine the wishes of the masses that has been put in place by a mysterious, but as as yet undefined, elite?
Personally voted remain but the behaviour of the EU during this whole process underlines why 17 million voted leave.
I don’t understand this at all. Not having a go but what exactly have the EU done during negotiations that was unexpected or not obvious ? Did they really do anything other than stand their ground and protect their members interest?
Well thinking about it SHG you are correct and certainly there was no chance at all we were going to walk away with a tasty deal as the whole of the EU would have collapsed like a house of cards, I guess what I mean is that in trying to leave it demonstrated what hold the EU has over its member states, honestly I don't believe we will ever be truly independent of their influence I may be wrong but £280 billion worth of trade tells me otherwise but I take your point and well made.
Well thinking about it SHG you are correct and certainly there was no chance at all we were going to walk away with a tasty deal as the whole of the EU would have collapsed like a house of cards, I guess what I mean is that in trying to leave it demonstrated what hold the EU has over its member states, honestly I don't believe we will ever be truly independent of their influence I may be wrong but £280 billion worth of trade tells me otherwise but I take your point and well made.
Thanks. Or might it suggest that rather than having a hold over its members it has strength from its members to stand firm and protects itself from even the fifth biggest economy in the world ?
Well thinking about it SHG you are correct and certainly there was no chance at all we were going to walk away with a tasty deal as the whole of the EU would have collapsed like a house of cards, I guess what I mean is that in trying to leave it demonstrated what hold the EU has over its member states, honestly I don't believe we will ever be truly independent of their influence I may be wrong but £280 billion worth of trade tells me otherwise but I take your point and well made.
But the EU doesn't have a hold over its member states - for a start the EU is its member states.
The UK could just walk away and the EU have no power whatsoever to stop us doing so. What is stopping us (hopefully) from just walking away without any deal is the negative effect (pretty much irrefutable unless you're a swivel-eyed loon) it would have on our economy, at least in the short to medium term. In 50 years or so we might see a benefit according to one particularly swivel-eyed loon.
That as well and agree, but I rather think that they also want to protect the gravy train that they have been cultivating the last 20 years or so. As for the fifth biggest economy in the world I rather think that is because of the EU membership rather than despite it, as I said I am a remainer. I do also believe that a number of other countries (Spain, Italy and The Netherlands) are watching this outcome with interest. As for membership strength I have always thought that this has been a Franco/German project and our presence has been beneficial to other member states in so far as we have been able to temper somewhat the Federal ambitions of France and Germany. Not sure if that is really true but certainly I have a lot of friends all over the EU and that is certainly how they see it. Somehow I feel we are about to lose a lot of standing in the world when we finally exit (if ever) the EU.
As for Prague, a serious person with a good track record, but who can now see only the price of everything and the value of nothing. A person who has lost touch with what democracy means. It is about the people.
What to say to this? just leave an LOL? Or write LMAO?
No, it makes me sad, and a bit guilty because I backed Southbank into a corner. I am sure he is a decent person and unquestionably intelligent and lucid and I wouldn't hesitate to buy him a beer on the way to an away game if we met up by chance.
But what on earth did he mean? The price of everything the value of nothing? Does it mean he thinks I vote with or talk through my wallet?
Well there are certainly things that bother me greatly about the future lives of everyone in the UK, mainly my close family but also all the wider family on here. I'll list them again:
- how can we fund and contribute to the NHS? - ditto elderly care, the dire state of which I have witnessed in the last 18 months? - how do we fund the necessary infrastructure, particularly transport? - how do we fix the housing market? - Are our children really getting value for money in further education? - do we have a police force staffed and equipped for the challenges of modern UK?
And my question to Southbank, and any other Brexiteer, was and is. If these are among the biggest issues that affect your daily life too, how will Brexit address and have a positive effect on each of those issues?
Finally pinned down on here on that question, Southbank did a runner.
And in doing so he laid bare the emptiness at the heart of the Brexit project, for all to see. It feels like a moment in the debate here, along with several others in the wider debate out there.
Southbank, can I congratulate you for being in the minority and speaking or commenting a lot of sense. Most of the Remainers on here seem Paranoid!
Do you see the irony of criticising others as "paranoid" for not joining in with the view that there's a secret plan to control and undermine the wishes of the masses that has been put in place by a mysterious, but as as yet undefined, elite?
As for Prague, a serious person with a good track record, but who can now see only the price of everything and the value of nothing. A person who has lost touch with what democracy means. It is about the people.
What to say to this? just leave an LOL? Or write LMAO?
There is no serious response to this deluded loony. Part of his dribbling moronic hissy-fit was that I apparently live in a bedsit. News to me! Good riddance to this thread's most prolific promoter of fake news.
I love all your 'lets just pretend the Referendum never happened' stuff as if 17m people suddenly don 't exist-that is you Fiiish in your bedsit thinking that this echo chamber with its paranoid fantasies is reality. As for Prague, a serious person with a good track record, but who can now see only the price of everything and the value of nothing. A person who has lost touch with what democracy means. It is about the people.
But the worst thing is those Labour radicals who want to change the world but who are lining up with big business and big government against the most radical movement in our life times. You cannot face up to the rich and powerful with 17m votes behind you but you think a Corbyn government could challenge capitalism ? What a joke, you and Corbyn are as much threat to the establishment as a wet paper bag.
I am done with this thread. I have found it useful in understanding the Remain pathology. Mainly insecure middle class people with a vested interest in the status quo. I never believed the establishment would leave the EU, they are too wedded to it personally and politically. But the problems of our society will carry on long after Brexit is betrayed.
Oh dear they will find someone to take it out on... Maybe they will become cannibal and eat each other... Hopefully.
But Corbyn has campaigned against racism all his life. Which automatically means he can never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER do anything racist or enable racist ever ever ever. EVER.
The Irish have kinda seen this coming - a new ferry route from Cork to Santander opened up earlier this year and the Dublin- Cherbourg route has seen a tenfold increase in capacity. A shame for Wales who will see a downturn in traffic - then again, they voted to leave!
As posted before, I always felt the country needed to move to accept a BINO solution and then ask ourselves why bother leaving? The fact that Norway has a relationship with the EU which appears to work is something to aim for whether in EFTA or not. The comments highlight the fact that the UK needs to come to an agreed position over the next couple of years or there will be far more damage from the ERG and their fellow travellers.
That is why the Tories need to be replaced asap. Some might wish to deflect and blame things on Corbyn even as we head into a probable defeat for the WA next Tuesday, but the fact is that this is a Tory mess which the Tories cannot solve.
This latest poll suggests that should the WA fall by a large amount then the country now has appetite for a second referendum and to vote Remain.
But Corbyn has campaigned against racism all his life. Which automatically means he can never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER do anything racist or enable racist ever ever ever. EVER.
But Corbyn has campaigned against racism all his life. Which automatically means he can never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER do anything racist or enable racist ever ever ever. EVER.
Lost amid the fevered debate on Brexit was the recent important announcement that the UK has succeeded in securing agreement at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) for its individual membership of the Government Procurement Agreement(GPA).
This agreement, with 46 WTO member counties, will enable the UK to bid for government contracts for both goods and services in each other’s countries including the US and EU.
This is a very significant step in the move to the UK having an independent post EU trade policy and was, with due credit, secured by the Department for International Trade against considerable opposition from several existing member countries.
Anyone else been watching the "Withdrawal Bill Act" debate that's been going on this week. Fascinating stuff. Of the few hours I saw yesterday afternoon the vast majority of MP's who spoke were against the deal. 10/1 in my view. Only ones in favour it seems were MP's with Central London constituencies....oh, and my MP (Tom Tugenghat). He seems a nice guy & someone you would follow into battle (served in the Army).....but I didn't vote for him in 2017 even though I'm a Tory through & through.....and won't be voting for him next time either.
Watching the debate and highlights of the Select committee for exiting the EU I can honestly say that MP's are lying toads & can't answer a simple question. 3 times yesterday a Government minister was asked to agree that although we can agree & even sign trade deals after March 29th next year none can actually start until will leave the Customs Union post implementation period. All he did was stuck to his prepared text....it was a simple Yes/No question ffs!!! Fyi...the answer is no. So if a trade deal with the EU takes 5 years to sort out (about average according to those itk) then we woukd not be able to do anything until 2024. And they want us to agree this ???
Similarly Ollie Robins & our 3rd Secretary of State for leaving the EU weren't straight with the committee either....esp when Hilary Benn was questioning them. Neither could put a date on when the Implementation period would end.....despite saying it was only temporay & "ideally" would cease at the end of 2020. Put YOUR signature to it then.....not on your nelly. Then it ain't written in stone then.
We're being run by a bunch of numpties.
No, the answer is not "no". It's "yes". As in, "yes, I do agree".
But Corbyn has campaigned against racism all his life. Which automatically means he can never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER do anything racist or enable racist ever ever ever. EVER.
It's amazing how these wingnut websites give the tell just with their name. Quillette. Something not quite right about that. And then you go to their 'about' page and there it is: Associate Editor Toby Young
Comments
That's British democracy in the bright new Brexit world.
Interesting read. The patriots are hitting the streets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
The UK could just walk away and the EU have no power whatsoever to stop us doing so. What is stopping us (hopefully) from just walking away without any deal is the negative effect (pretty much irrefutable unless you're a swivel-eyed loon) it would have on our economy, at least in the short to medium term. In 50 years or so we might see a benefit according to one particularly swivel-eyed loon.
@SDAddick @kentaddick
As for Prague, a serious person with a good track record, but who can now see only the price of everything and the value of nothing. A person who has lost touch with what democracy means. It is about the people.
What to say to this? just leave an LOL? Or write LMAO?
No, it makes me sad, and a bit guilty because I backed Southbank into a corner. I am sure he is a decent person and unquestionably intelligent and lucid and I wouldn't hesitate to buy him a beer on the way to an away game if we met up by chance.
But what on earth did he mean? The price of everything the value of nothing? Does it mean he thinks I vote with or talk through my wallet?
Well there are certainly things that bother me greatly about the future lives of everyone in the UK, mainly my close family but also all the wider family on here. I'll list them again:
- how can we fund and contribute to the NHS?
- ditto elderly care, the dire state of which I have witnessed in the last 18 months?
- how do we fund the necessary infrastructure, particularly transport?
- how do we fix the housing market?
- Are our children really getting value for money in further education?
- do we have a police force staffed and equipped for the challenges of modern UK?
And my question to Southbank, and any other Brexiteer, was and is. If these are among the biggest issues that affect your daily life too, how will Brexit address and have a positive effect on each of those issues?
Finally pinned down on here on that question, Southbank did a runner.
And in doing so he laid bare the emptiness at the heart of the Brexit project, for all to see. It feels like a moment in the debate here, along with several others in the wider debate out there.
Back to the drawing board then
As posted before, I always felt the country needed to move to accept a BINO solution and then ask ourselves why bother leaving? The fact that Norway has a relationship with the EU which appears to work is something to aim for whether in EFTA or not. The comments highlight the fact that the UK needs to come to an agreed position over the next couple of years or there will be far more damage from the ERG and their fellow travellers.
That is why the Tories need to be replaced asap. Some might wish to deflect and blame things on Corbyn even as we head into a probable defeat for the WA next Tuesday, but the fact is that this is a Tory mess which the Tories cannot solve.
This latest poll suggests that should the WA fall by a large amount then the country now has appetite for a second referendum and to vote Remain.
https://quillette.com/2018/12/03/the-ideology-of-corbynism/
Lost amid the fevered debate on Brexit was the recent important announcement that the UK has succeeded in securing agreement at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) for its individual membership of the Government Procurement Agreement(GPA).
This agreement, with 46 WTO member counties, will enable the UK to bid for government contracts for both goods and services in each other’s countries including the US and EU.
This is a very significant step in the move to the UK having an independent post EU trade policy and was, with due credit, secured by the Department for International Trade against considerable opposition from several existing member countries.