I was a bit disappointed to be back in Phuket and not in Adelaide when I saw the state of play when I landed yesterday. Very good bowling by the Aussies today with huge swing. I've always believed that individual balls swing more than others and this definitely seemed to be the case today.
Perhaps Ormiston's Foakes suggestion isn't a bad one.Vince is too reckless. Bairstow up the order and a keeper who batted solidly during the past couple of seasons. Don't think it'll happen though. Not impossible to save the series but very tough now. I won't be betting my life savings on it.
I was a bit disappointed to be back in Phuket and not in Adelaide when I saw the state of play when I landed yesterday. Very good bowling by the Aussies today with huge swing. I've always believed that individual balls swing more than others and this definitely seemed to be the case today.
Perhaps Ormiston's Foakes suggestion isn't a bad one.Vince is too reckless. Bairstow up the order and a keeper who batted solidly during the past couple of seasons. Don't think it'll happen though. Not impossible to save the series but very tough now. I won't be betting my life savings on it.
Bairstow at 5 and Foakes to keep is a line up suggestion that I was laughed at for on here before the series.
I said at the start of the series that we would lose 4-1. I think it will be a whitewash now. We keep on having batting collapses. What is the cause of these collapses? I would suggest that we are not mentally tough enough.
233 is not a bad 4th innings total tbf it's probably par for the course out here. But our 1st innings totals must improve if we are to have any chance of winning a test out here
Stokes should have been allowed to go all the nonsense about its just not cricket we are better than that is rubbish
A young man having a few beevies had a fight whooppe fucking doo
Mostly agree. I think it's only got this far because he's 'famous'.
And the fact that the victim was hospitalised with a fractured eye socket. Hales, who has not been charged with anything, is also famous but free to play, persistently told Stokes to stop.
If the guy had hit his head and died should Stokes still be allowed to play because he is innocent until proven guilty?
Footage of an idiot kicking the shit out of someone and then taking the mickey out of someone who is handicapped wasn't fake news. It did actually happen. Do people seriously think that the CPS and Police want their time wasted on a case that is an absolute no hoper? They have to be given the time to consider all the facts, witness statements etc etc.
And the blame for the fact that all of this coincides with one of the biggest sporting events falls solely at the door of Stokes himself.
All this innocent until proven guilty is rather beside the point. The case against Stokes is a LIVE case that is with the CPS. The ECB, in my eyes, had no option but to suspend Stokes from England duty until either the case gets dropped or after the prosecution is heard and the verdict is given. The ECB are not the bad guys here. Even if Stokes was standing up to homophobic bullies he shouldn't have been it that position.
Three tests left so still time to turn things around especially with seven days rest now to recharge the batteries, have a few late nights out followed by the odd brawl or two
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
Three tests left so still time to turn things around especially with seven days rest now to recharge the batteries, have a few late nights out followed by the odd brawl or two
.....knock off a few barmaids, piss on a couple of flags, get recorded discussing no balls with a dodgy Asian bloke......
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
Very lucky ?
How many punches end up in a death ? You would have to be EXTREMELY UNlucky to end up facing a manslaughter charge from a fight outside a club.
Set my alarm for early this morning,and saw we had lost already so went back to bed...
England battled well yesterday, but Australia have 4 excellent bowlers, there's no respite as the quicks can rotate while Lyon holds up an end. I think before this series many here underestimated how good he is at the moment.
England's batting has been weak for ages, we started the summer with 3 problem positions and after trying out various people still have 3 problem positions; we need batsmen to make 50s and 100s not gritty 20s and 30s. Then you have Cook who's struggling at the moment, and no Stokes at No 6, and it looks grim.
Before the series I would have been delighted with 2-2, the best I imagined we could get. It'll take a miracle to get there now.
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
Very lucky ?
How many punches end up in a death ? You would have to be EXTREMELY UNlucky to end up facing a manslaughter charge from a fight outside a club.
....imagine what they are for the UK, almost certainly much, much bigger.
The bloke Stokes punched was out cold before he hit the floor, that means his muscle resistance was gone which means his skull took the full impact of hitting the concrete.
A good friend of my family - a fucking 18 year old kid - was killed just like this in an attack just like Stokes perpetrated back in 2015, the attacker is now doing a 10 year stretch.
As if it couldn’t get any worse the victims younger brother killed himself a year later because he couldn’t deal with the grief - the parents buried their only two sons inside a year of each other, nice eh?
Please tell me again how senseless violence outside nightclubs is just a bit of harmless fun.
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
I live in Bexleyheath and occasionally read the Sun. Stop targeting me.
Stokes shouldn't be cut any slack just because it helps us out in an Ashes series. He might have made some difference but our top order would likely still let us down.
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
Very lucky ?
How many punches end up in a death ? You would have to be EXTREMELY UNlucky to end up facing a manslaughter charge from a fight outside a club.
....imagine what they are for the UK, almost certainly much, much bigger.
The bloke Stokes punched was out cold before he hit the floor, that means his muscle resistance was gone which means his skull took the full impact of hitting the concrete.
A good friend of my family - a fucking 18 year old kid - was killed just like this in an attack just like Stokes perpetrated back in 2015, the attacker is now doing a 10 year stretch.
As if it couldn’t get any worse the victims younger brother killed himself a year later because he couldn’t deal with the grief - the parents buried their only two sons inside a year of each other, nice eh?
Please tell me again how senseless violence outside nightclubs is just a bit of harmless fun.
Where did I say 'senseless violence outside nightclubs is just a bit of harmless fun.'
I said statistically he is not extremely lucky to not have killed him
Stokes only has himself to blame - he has let everyone down massively.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
I live in Bexleyheath and occasionally read the Sun. Stop targeting me.
Stokes shouldn't be cut any slack just because it helps us out in an Ashes series. He might have made some difference but our top order would likely still let us down.
This is sorta right ... when you look at top 7 of 2010 it was... Strauss,Cook,Trott,KP,Colly,Bell,Prior
compare that with now... Cook,Stoneman(who has been a success imo),Vince,Root,Malan,Ali,Bairstow.
it was a fight nothing more nothing less so what it happens no one died move on and let the lad play cricket
Dont agree with simplistic way of putting this. We live in a civilised world where we are supposed to have tolerance and sympathy. If you want to have a fight, get in the Boxing Ring.
it was a fight nothing more nothing less so what it happens no one died move on and let the lad play cricket
Dont agree with simplistic way of putting this. We live in a civilised world where we are supposed to have tolerance and sympathy. If you want to have a fight, get in the Boxing Ring.
Then a hell of young men would be locked up. I think Stokes was stupid putting himself in that position. Most of us have been in dicey situations where talking your way put of bother has failed.
Don't get me wrong, this type of thing is obviously anti social and unacceptable. I had my jaw broken and was knocked put cold by a punch from behind in 2005 because I was sticking up for a lad being given shit by 2 others at about 3am in Maidstone. I could have pressed charges and ruined someone's life or I could have taken it as lesson learned, stay away from the situation. I don't know what provoked Stokes into doing what he did but I do know in my situation I was either going to have to put my fists up to defend myself for doing the right thing or I was going to get a hiding. Not that it makes a difference but I'd got the better of the two that had been bullying this bloke and it was some unassociated shitcunt that ran from one side of the road to the other to monger me on the sly (the bar this was outside showed me the CCTV)
What I'm saying is factors play a part, alcohol obviously is a biggie but also I believe in sticking up for yourself and for those unable to do so and IF this is what happened in Stokes' case then he did the right thing and I say that knowing the possible consequences for both parties. The guy that broke my jaw didn't show any consideration for any consequence and thankfully apart from an incredibly painful injury I was ok. The documentary on one punch killers was heart breaking and frustrating to watch. Unfortunately human beings can be fucking horrible and do unpredictable things that have very serious consequences.
If the story that he was defending 2 gay guys from homophobic abuse is true, then fair play to him for sticking up for them. However, he undoubtedly went too far.
That being said, the fact the ECB refused to select him, but he was allowed to go play elsewhereis laughable.
The only people suffering are the England cricket team. Stokes is a key member of that team & is able to go & earn millions of pounds elsewhere whilst the England team suffer. Where's the sense in that??
If the story that he was defending 2 gay guys from homophobic abuse is true, then fair play to him for sticking up for them. However, he undoubtedly went too far.
That being said, the fact the ECB refused to select him, but he was allowed to go play elsewhereis laughable.
The only people suffering are the England cricket team. Stokes is a key member of that team & is able to go & earn millions of pounds elsewhere whilst the England team suffer. Where's the sense in that??
It should be a worldwide ban or no ban at all
He's hardly gone and earned millions elsewhere. He's gone back to where his parents live, and is playing some very local cricket while he is there to keep fit should he get the opportunity to fly over to Australia. Would be surprised if he's getting much cash at all.
it was a fight nothing more nothing less so what it happens no one died move on and let the lad play cricket
Dont agree with simplistic way of putting this. We live in a civilised world where we are supposed to have tolerance and sympathy. If you want to have a fight, get in the Boxing Ring.
Then a hell of young men would be locked up. I think Stokes was stupid putting himself in that position. Most of us have been in dicey situations where talking your way put of bother has failed.
Don't get me wrong, this type of thing is obviously anti social and unacceptable. I had my jaw broken and was knocked put cold by a punch from behind in 2005 because I was sticking up for a lad being given shit by 2 others at about 3am in Maidstone. I could have pressed charges and ruined someone's life or I could have taken it as lesson learned, stay away from the situation. I don't know what provoked Stokes into doing what he did but I do know in my situation I was either going to have to put my fists up to defend myself for doing the right thing or I was going to get a hiding. Not that it makes a difference but I'd got the better of the two that had been bullying this bloke and it was some unassociated shitcunt that ran from one side of the road to the other to monger me on the sly (the bar this was outside showed me the CCTV)
What I'm saying is factors play a part, alcohol obviously is a biggie but also I believe in sticking up for yourself and for those unable to do so and IF this is what happened in Stokes' case then he did the right thing and I say that knowing the possible consequences for both parties. The guy that broke my jaw didn't show any consideration for any consequence and thankfully apart from an incredibly painful injury I was ok. The documentary on one punch killers was heart breaking and frustrating to watch. Unfortunately human beings can be fucking horrible and do unpredictable things that have very serious consequences.
Really good post, @Carter - you've made some interesting points.
I've got to disagree that "most people" get into situations that they can't talk themselves out of. To succumb to that, you have to make (at least) two stupid mistakes. 1. Get yourself into that situation. 2. Fail to get yourself out of it. It may be true that many young, male, drunk, out-of-control people (Stokes, of course, fits that bill) may find that they're in that kind of position. But most people aren't male, young, drunk and out of control.
Stokes was wrong to be in that position, wrong not to talk his way out of it and wrong (possibly criminally so) to batter the victim. He wasn't unlucky and he didn't inadvertently find himself in a position that most of us fall in to. He's an idiot.
You're right that people do awful things. I'm very pleased you got over the awful, cowardly attack you suffered.
Even if Stokes was playing we'd still be facing the major problem; the fact that our top 5 aren't scoring enough runs & the 2 experienced players (Cook & Root) are out of form (Root did score a few on Day 4, but as usual couldn't re-start on day 5). Stoneman, Vince & Malan are just not of Test match quality. This was shown in the summer & the selectors chose not to address it.
Even if Stokes was playing we'd still be facing the major problem; the fact that our top 5 aren't scoring enough runs & the 2 experienced players (Cook & Root) are out of form (Root did score a few on Day 4, but as usual couldn't re-start on day 5). Stoneman, Vince & Malan are just not of Test match quality. This was shown in the summer & the selectors chose not to address it.
I would certainly agree that Vince and Malan are not Test Match quality. It is all very well saying that, but who is of Test Match quality who hasn't been picked? Stoneman has got something about him but hasn't converted starts into sizeable scores.
The semi-acceptance of this sort of random, wanton violence and aggression in the UK is one of the major issues that i have when i come back to blighty. To go out and have 10 premium lagers and then think its almost ok to have a bundle is something that is alien to virtually every other country that i've lived or worked in- and is something i dont even bother to try to defend to my foreign colleagues and friends. Along with Football Hooliganism, they call it the 'English disease' - and tbh it sucks.Anyone who wants to make it tolerable or defensible is just wrong. For example, here in Lux , they dont even have doormen, and there is no aggressive feel to the place - there are no gangs of drunks terrorising the place - tbh its refreshing and pleasant.
Maybe bringing a high-profile to court and jail might make some people think twice. I doubt it. Anyway,back to The Cricket.
Comments
Perhaps Ormiston's Foakes suggestion isn't a bad one.Vince is too reckless. Bairstow up the order and a keeper who batted solidly during the past couple of seasons. Don't think it'll happen though. Not impossible to save the series but very tough now. I won't be betting my life savings on it.
But our 1st innings totals must improve if we are to have any chance of winning a test out here
If the guy had hit his head and died should Stokes still be allowed to play because he is innocent until proven guilty?
Footage of an idiot kicking the shit out of someone and then taking the mickey out of someone who is handicapped wasn't fake news. It did actually happen. Do people seriously think that the CPS and Police want their time wasted on a case that is an absolute no hoper? They have to be given the time to consider all the facts, witness statements etc etc.
And the blame for the fact that all of this coincides with one of the biggest sporting events falls solely at the door of Stokes himself.
He can count himself VERY lucky not to be facing a manslaughter charge and to be facing a multi-year sentence.
Would he have made a difference to these results? Probably not but he would add more to the team than Mazlan or Vince.
Bottom line is that some things are more important than the result of a Cricket series - not easy for The Sun reading types to grasp naturally - and enforcement of behavioural standards is one of them.
How could the ECB discipline anyone over anything if they see Stokes doing what he did and turn around and say, “Er, you’ve been well out of order but let’s not worry about it this time because we’re playing the Ashes in Australia.”
He needs to be banned for the entire winter to demonstrate that playing for your country is a privilege and that when you are an England cricketer you simply cannot go round behaving like ‘Darren the Chav’ from Bexleyheath in a midnight punch-up over the future favours of Ebony from Erith at the Bus Stop next to the Clock Tower.
I fucking hate losing to the Aussies but Stokes behaved disgracefully and has to pay the price to ensure he doesn’t do it again.
Apart from Root Stokes and Bairstow I fear the national team is in a decline over the next few years, as Cook, Broad and Anderson retire.
How many punches end up in a death ?
You would have to be EXTREMELY UNlucky to end up facing a manslaughter charge from a fight outside a club.
England battled well yesterday, but Australia have 4 excellent bowlers, there's no respite as the quicks can rotate while Lyon holds up an end. I think before this series many here underestimated how good he is at the moment.
England's batting has been weak for ages, we started the summer with 3 problem positions and after trying out various people still have 3 problem positions; we need batsmen to make 50s and 100s not gritty 20s and 30s. Then you have Cook who's struggling at the moment, and no Stokes at No 6, and it looks grim.
Before the series I would have been delighted with 2-2, the best I imagined we could get. It'll take a miracle to get there now.
These are just the stats for Australia....
http://www.smh.com.au/national/90-killed-in-singlepunch-assaults-since-2000-20131201-2yjtr.html
....imagine what they are for the UK, almost certainly much, much bigger.
The bloke Stokes punched was out cold before he hit the floor, that means his muscle resistance was gone which means his skull took the full impact of hitting the concrete.
A good friend of my family - a fucking 18 year old kid - was killed just like this in an attack just like Stokes perpetrated back in 2015, the attacker is now doing a 10 year stretch.
As if it couldn’t get any worse the victims younger brother killed himself a year later because he couldn’t deal with the grief - the parents buried their only two sons inside a year of each other, nice eh?
Please tell me again how senseless violence outside nightclubs is just a bit of harmless fun.
Stokes shouldn't be cut any slack just because it helps us out in an Ashes series. He might have made some difference but our top order would likely still let us down.
I said statistically he is not extremely lucky to not have killed him
Am sorry for your friends losses.
when you look at top 7 of 2010 it was...
Strauss,Cook,Trott,KP,Colly,Bell,Prior
compare that with now...
Cook,Stoneman(who has been a success imo),Vince,Root,Malan,Ali,Bairstow.
Nuff said?
If you want to have a fight, get in the Boxing Ring.
Don't get me wrong, this type of thing is obviously anti social and unacceptable. I had my jaw broken and was knocked put cold by a punch from behind in 2005 because I was sticking up for a lad being given shit by 2 others at about 3am in Maidstone. I could have pressed charges and ruined someone's life or I could have taken it as lesson learned, stay away from the situation. I don't know what provoked Stokes into doing what he did but I do know in my situation I was either going to have to put my fists up to defend myself for doing the right thing or I was going to get a hiding. Not that it makes a difference but I'd got the better of the two that had been bullying this bloke and it was some unassociated shitcunt that ran from one side of the road to the other to monger me on the sly (the bar this was outside showed me the CCTV)
What I'm saying is factors play a part, alcohol obviously is a biggie but also I believe in sticking up for yourself and for those unable to do so and IF this is what happened in Stokes' case then he did the right thing and I say that knowing the possible consequences for both parties. The guy that broke my jaw didn't show any consideration for any consequence and thankfully apart from an incredibly painful injury I was ok. The documentary on one punch killers was heart breaking and frustrating to watch. Unfortunately human beings can be fucking horrible and do unpredictable things that have very serious consequences.
That being said, the fact the ECB refused to select him, but he was allowed to go play elsewhereis laughable.
The only people suffering are the England cricket team. Stokes is a key member of that team & is able to go & earn millions of pounds elsewhere whilst the England team suffer. Where's the sense in that??
It should be a worldwide ban or no ban at all
I've got to disagree that "most people" get into situations that they can't talk themselves out of. To succumb to that, you have to make (at least) two stupid mistakes. 1. Get yourself into that situation. 2. Fail to get yourself out of it. It may be true that many young, male, drunk, out-of-control people (Stokes, of course, fits that bill) may find that they're in that kind of position. But most people aren't male, young, drunk and out of control.
Stokes was wrong to be in that position, wrong not to talk his way out of it and wrong (possibly criminally so) to batter the victim. He wasn't unlucky and he didn't inadvertently find himself in a position that most of us fall in to. He's an idiot.
You're right that people do awful things. I'm very pleased you got over the awful, cowardly attack you suffered.
Stoneman has got something about him but hasn't converted starts into sizeable scores.
To go out and have 10 premium lagers and then think its almost ok to have a bundle is something that is alien to virtually every other country that i've lived or worked in- and is something i dont even bother to try to defend to my foreign colleagues and friends.
Along with Football Hooliganism, they call it the 'English disease' - and tbh it sucks.Anyone who wants to make it tolerable or defensible is just wrong.
For example, here in Lux , they dont even have doormen, and there is no aggressive feel to the place - there are no gangs of drunks terrorising the place - tbh its refreshing and pleasant.
Maybe bringing a high-profile to court and jail might make some people think twice.
I doubt it.
Anyway,back to The Cricket.